Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Republicans, welcome to your own personal 1980

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 10:07 PM
Original message
Republicans, welcome to your own personal 1980
I remember.

I remember what it felt like as we Democrats realized that Keynesian (sensible!) economics was about to be replaced by Friedmanian (supply-side) economics. We knew it would be a disaster. We didn't know how many years it would take, but we knew it was coming. We believed in the regulations put into place during the depression were sound and needed.

I remember what it felt like as we Democrats realized that diplomacy would now take a back-seat to military force as a first option when dealing with foreign policy. We knew that jingoism and faux patriotism would return. We knew.

It took almost three decades, but finally a majority of America is realizing that Reaganomics is a failed economic model and neo-conservatism is a failed foreign policy model.


Republicans... everything you believe is now no longer operative.

We're going back to a time where military force is the option of last resort - but rest assured, if it is necessary, it will be used. After PROPERLY getting a Declaration of War as the Constitution prescribes.

We're going back to a time where our markets and businesses will have to abide by common-sense regulations to keep them from destroying the economy for their own greed.

We're going back to a time when we actually MAKE THINGS in this country instead of moving our jobs overseas.

It might not make the top 1% any richer. But it will grow the middle class.


Class warfare? Sure.... but you guys started it. You strip-mined the middle class for three decades, and when the middle class finally scream "ENOUGH!" you play the "class-warfare" card?


Welcome to the wilderness, Republicans. See you in 2036. By then, maybe you would've learned something and altered your world view.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Feels good saying that, doesn't it?
:evilgrin: I have waited a long time for this, and it's wonderful! :bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It feels great. 11 days until Reaganomics is R.I.P.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. You got that right. On a related note, do you think
Dems will get a filibuster-proof majority?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. If they get to 57 or 58, they'll be fine... because they'll always be able to find a couple
moderate Repukes.... Specter, Snow, etc.... to get to 60.


We don't have to get to EXACTLY 60 to get effectively a filibuster-proof majority. Just close enough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. Privately, I'd prefer getting either 61 or 59...
...because, if we're exactly at 60, it means we'll once again be in a situation where Lieberman holds all the power. I'd just as soon be in need of a couple of moderate Republicans to break a filibuster, if that would allow us to give Holy Joe the boot he has so richly deserved for so long.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. We will not count chickens before they hatch
but I do hope that Obama can tear down the entire infrastructure of what Reagan and the Bushes have built.

That will take time, and not come without resistance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressiveforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. I remember too. I was so disllusioned. I had to determine what really mattered
It is their turn, Welcome Republicans. Welcome to hell....and it will be for a long time
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. Name one "common-sense regulation" which Nancy Pelosi is going to pass. NT
NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. President Obama is going to drive the agenda, not her.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Nancy may not be Speaker, either.
Her election to that post remains to be seen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vixengrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Class warfare", I always say, "is what they call it when
Edited on Fri Oct-24-08 10:59 PM by vixengrl
rich people realize they are outnumbered, and working people are on the verge of realizing it, too."

It's not a socialist revolution that anyone is after--to use the term you have, it's just some damn "common sense." The free market idea that businesses would self-regulate in accordance with market demands in the face of competition is stupid. It ignores human nature and is for ivory tower right-wing think-tank elitists*. The idea that capitalists would self-regulate is like supposing that gambles would fold on a losing streak and step away from the table before they lost big, or that drinkers would quit when they feel tipsy before they got smashed--people do what they do because they are doing it. It's human nature. Call it the Human Law of Entropy. And label the science EcoDynamics. Since economics has remained unscientific in that every time the Randroid/Friedman model is put in efffect and it fails, the "scientists" blame the experiment, not the hypothesis.

I feel the same way about foreign policy--the PNAC guys, like, say, Doug Feith (I know, low-hanging fruit) are so-called "intellectuals". More ivory tower elitism*. Foreign policy does not take place in some intellectual vacuum, and human nature is very much a part of it. While I don't like what realpolitic has come to mean, reality-based politics is a damn good idea! Let's recognize that "terrorism" is a tactic, and get reacquainted with the concept that people and nations have motives--an exceptional reason to talk with them and find out what their motives entail, and how it impacts us, so we can head off the nasty repercussions of our own blind ignorance.

And as for business--I think there has been a generation and more of dumb, coddled, inheritors--not entrepreneurs. They may very well have come to see employment as a necessary evil, and not recognize that productivity springs from workers and is an actual asset, just like real estate or equipment--and to get maximum benefit--one must invest! And also, recognize this asset does not necessarily depreciate, but pays dividends! I have heard too much language which sounded like wage-earners were some kind of "useless eater" and didn't offer anything while costing overhead. Consider this: If you invest in your workers with training, health care, and a good wage, they will respond with loyalty and apply their knowledge and creativity to doing what you need better. There doesn't need to be an adversarial relationship between management and labor. Work, like love, is an important part, as the psychologists would note, of a person's sense of well-being.

Finally, "growing the middle class" is a good thing. The notion of "trickle down" is hellishly wrong. The reality is more like "drag down." The lower the standard of living of the working class, the less goods get bought, and the less money gets made, and the less there is to go around. And enter the lay-offs and the sell-offs. The economic stimulus, ideally, should not come from Uncle Sam, but the ghost of Sam Walton. Who, in a Dickensian fashion, should show up on the scene in chains for the good he failed to do in the realm of retail. His family--useless eaters with money. The older person wearing a blue apron--the real wealth of the company. The one who really relates to the damn customer. To ignore or forget that is epic fail. "Bottom up--not top down!" should be the new cri de couer.

And for those who bruit about the nonsense that this is socialism or communism, evoking the spectors of the past--I say, "Shut the fuck up." Seriously. The wall fell, okay? The Soviet is no more. There is no more Domino theory, or even Chinese checkers. We won, and the "missile gap" notion that we just defense-spent'em to the grave is just more Reagan-olatry. Stupid and wrong. Communism failed because Bolshevism failed. Competition is basically good and dictators suck. And dictators still suck in other places--(but did you notice China is actually lending us money? Such nice capitalists we made them!) But workers still should be valued, because they still are the, um, taxpayers and citizens upon which a democratic government would depend!


Yikes--did not mean to have myself a happy little manifesto. But um--


Boo-ya. I think many conservatives will ned to re-think the last few years, and try to dig why it all came belly-up, and how together, right and left, we can manage to do things better. And chuck the "warfare" notion. No more Gingrich, no more Norquist. No more Reed and no more Hannity and all that ilk. Actually see politics as people and not so much as party--hey, wow--maybe we could all get bipartisan and really co-operative?

I'm hopeful.



*Edit--I forgot my asterisk. "Elitist" is, in my lexicon a way of saying the prevailing intellectual notion--like free-market economics and pre-emptive war somehow got to be prevailing, even if they are wrong and dumb. I don't mean to demean intellectuals of all stripes or education in general--just the stupid memes that get so popular people forget that they are, well, stupid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. It's been "class warfare" for almost thirty years...
...except, under the Republican rules, only one side is allowed to fight. :spank:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
10. Even worse than Reaganomics was the Reagan Foreign Policy
...that was summed up in Iran/Contra and ultimately the whole neocon/Bush Doctrine that came out of that foreign policy. Reagan's coffin should be exhumed so a wooden stake can be driven through his chest and his head severed and removed from the remains.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arewenotdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. well put
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. There are more of us than them. Finally we have banded together to overthrow Republican rule. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-24-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
12. Fuck you, Newt Gingrich
:D




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
13. 1980? Hell, more like 1964...
when the Dem got 61% of the vote, and a certain Arizona senator got pummeled by a margin of 486-52 electoral votes! :bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 05:44 AM
Response to Original message
14. I remember Election Day, 1980...
It never really occurred to me that Reagan could win. I was hoping for a miracle, that John Anderson would come out of nowhere and become the first independent candidate elected President (remember, polling was still pretty primitive back then, so I really had no idea of the state of the race), but figured that, if not, we'd probably be stuck with Carter for another four years and, while I was not happy about it, I figured we could survive it.

Still, as I went about my graduate-school day in the San Fernando Valley, I had the sense that something was happening, like a premonition that an earthquake would strike soon. I couldn't explain it, but sensed that everything was about to change.

It was still late afternoon, before sundown, when I flipped on the car radio and heard, to my shock, that not only was Reagan leading, but that he'd already won outright, and Carter had given his concession speech, hours before the polls were to close where I lived. As the evening drew on, the news kept coming in, all of it bad...great Democratic senators like McGovern, Bayh, Church, Magnuson, all swept out of office; Republicans like Al d'Amato being elected in Democratic strongholds like New York, and, finally, the unthinkable...the Senate as a whole switching to Republican control. The late results, such as my long-time Democratic congressman being defeated by a Republican "little-league mom" who ran entirely on an anti-busing platform, were the final, bitter grace-notes to an apocalyptic symphony.

The next morning, it was clear that my premonition had been dead-on, and that my country had been transformed into something unthinkable. Yet, even then, I took for granted that "we'd be back" soon. I figured that one of two things could happen: either the "Reagan Revolution" would fail utterly, and voters would restore Democratic normalcy, or (far more unlikely) it would succeed and, ironically, the restoration of prosperity would bring about an optimism that would turn us away from bitter selfishness and toward social liberalism that would return the Democratic vision once again. (Little did I realize how adept Republicans were in keeping the average American on the knife's edge, where things were just barely good enough to prevent a "throw the bums out" reaction, but bad enough that one's gaze remained fixed firmly inward, driven by a fear of losing what little one still has.) But I knew we'd be back one day. I figured it would probably be four years, or at worst eight.

Never in my life did I dream that it would take twenty-eight years. But I'll take it when (and if...I'm not getting complacent yet!) it happens. And I think it a blessing, even if a cold one, that such a restoration would take place at the juncture of two forces: an economic collapse that won't allow an incoming president to take the cautious, "things are running good enough as is" approach (and, conversely, won't allow the American voter to retreat behind the "stay the course so that things don't get worse" mindset that has been the last refuge of the powers that be), and a young, transformational leader, who won't be able to afford a "do-little" approach.

Still, it may be much later than I anticipated, and it isn't a sure thing yet, but I'm beginning to get the same premonitions of a tectonic shift coming up that I did twenty-eight autumns ago. I'm hoping that November 5th will dawn on a mirror-image of that November morning of 1980, with a sense that we are finally back on the right track, after a nearly three-decade-long detour into the wilderness.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
16. "You strip-mined the middle class for three decades"
Wow...perfectly stated!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
20. K & R!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
21. Agreed, Democrats in 2008 is the Republicans 1980
Edited on Sat Oct-25-08 08:00 AM by davidpdx
I only vaguely remember the 1980 election as I was only 9. However it was the first election I sat in front of the TV and watched returns on election night. In 1992, I remember the euphoria of Clinton winning after 12 long years of Republican administrations. That January I started my first year of undergraduate studies. On the day he was inaugurated, I was siting in math class. Was I paying attention to the teacher? Nope, I was listening to the inauguration on the radio.

In 1996, I shook Clinton's hand.
In 2000, I shook Gore's hand.
in 2007, I shook Obama's hand.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC