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I can prove that the so-called "Bradley effect" is a right wing pipe dream

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Hokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 07:17 AM
Original message
I can prove that the so-called "Bradley effect" is a right wing pipe dream
Edited on Sat Nov-01-08 07:22 AM by Hokie
The so-called Bradley effect is being invoked as a reason to distrust the polls that show Obama is clearly ahead. The New Hampshire primary is constantly mentioned by the pundits as proof that it is real. Is that true or was it just bad polling? If there really is this Bradley effect it should have shown across the board in the Democratic primary races as a negative for Obama. So did it? I decided to find out. I looked at data for six of the most competitive Democratic primaries to see if Obama consistently under performed his final polling numbers. Not only did he not under perform he actually slightly over performed.

I gathered data from RCP for the primaries in NH, VA, OH, PA, NC and IN and looked at the final poll versus the actual results.

State Poll Actual Delta

NH O+8.3 C+2.6 C+10.9
IN C+5.0 C+1.4 O+3.6
VA O+17.7 O+28.2 O+10.5
PA C+6.1 C+9.2 C+3.1
OH C+7.1 C+10.1 C+3.0
NC O+8.0 O+14.7 O+6.7

So Clinton beat the polls in 3 states by an average of 5.7 points.
Obama beat the polls in 3 states by an average of of 6.9 points.


In other words, in 6 key states Obama out performed the poll numbers more than did Hillary Clinton. Where was the "Bradley effect"? It didn't show up because it is a complete myth. If you look at New Hampshire closely you will see that Clinton led consistently in the weeks before the election until a group of polls at the very end showed an Obama surge. This turned out to be incorrect for various reasons. The primary in New Hampshire was more complicated to poll because independents could vote in either the Democratic or Republican primary. One theory is that that many independents switch and voted for McCain when they thought Obama was going to win anyway. In 4 of the remaining 5 states the poll leader won and by more than the final margin in the polls.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Gives the media something to hang on to.....
since they enjoy talking about race so much. It's the one sure thing they can slip in just in case anyone goes color blind. Couldn't have that.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Great Data, Thanks
Let's hope it's confirmed on Tuesday!
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Hokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think the other thing it shows is that there will be a few surprises
The polls in the general election should be more accurate than in the primaries. In the primaries turnout is so much lower that if one candidate can get a higher turnout for any reason it can make a huge difference. My opinion on the NH primary is that Clinton had a late surge because she showed emotion and women thought media was treating her unfairly which, of course, they were.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. I Agree On The The Polling Being Somewhat More Accurate In The GE
We'll have to disagree on the media's treatment of the Clintons, though.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks. Gingrich said on TV that the Bradley effect did not even happen in that election. Even if
it did, that does not mean it will happen to Obama, who is different. Moreover, that was a couple of decades ago. This is not 1968 or 1988. It is 2008.
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Hokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I am not sure I would use Newt as a source! However...
I have read a pretty detailed explanation of that election and why the polls were wrong. I think they did not properly account for absentee ballots for one thing.

Anyway, remember these things. Polls can be wrong just for random reasons. They all have margins of error and they are outside those margins at least 5% of the time even if they are done perfectly. This only makes news when the error happens to favor the losing candidate. You never hear about it when the favorite wins by a wider margin or the election is closer than expected. Obama's lead is real.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. Bradley effect "dreamed up...to explain away polling and campaign strategy errors"
In two interviews, one with a respected reporter who covered the Bradley-Deukmejian race in 1982 and another with Deukmejian's own pollster explain clearly why the Bradley effect is a myth and why it is well known within California to be a myth. Read on for key statements from those interviews (hey, i'm saving you time here)

(Deukmejian pollster) V. Lance Tarrance, Jr.: (10-17-08)

He calls the Bradley effect "a pernicious canard," Tarrance speaks with some authority—he was the pollster for Bradley's opponent, George Deukmejian. Tarrance argues the effect was merely a result of bad data: the poll declaring Bradley a prohibitive favorite ignored Deukmejian's advantages among absentee and early voters. To give credence to a Bradley effect in this year's election, Tarrance argues, "is to damage our democracy, no matter who wins."

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1851287, ...


The "Bradley Effect": Myth or Maybe? (10-17-08) (passages from the interview)
(from an interview with Dan Walters, longtime Sacramento political reporter and who covered that campaign)
Prejudice, Polling, and the Election

In California political circles it is well known that the Bradley Effect was dreamed up after the fact to explain away polling and campaign strategy errors.

And the Bradley folks jumped on the theory as a rationalization for the simple fact that they had blown the election by taking victory for granted, stopping campaigning more than a week before Election Day, and being "outhustled" by the Republicans on absentee voters. It was their way of sidestepping recriminations within the Democratic Party for such a narrow loss.

Bradley was so confident that he had won he actually stopped campaigning about ten days before the election. Ahead of the election, Bradley, had a lead of something like 5 or 6 percentage points. The polling that was being done at that time was based on an understandable assumption that all of the votes would be cast on Election Day. Mervin Field, declared—based on exit polling of Election Day voters—that Bradley had won the election. Everyone was crazy with excitement. And Tom Bradley did win that night. But once they counted the absentee ballots, he had lost by about 94,000 votes.

A few years earlier, the legislature had liberalized voting rules, making it much easier to vote absentee, thinking it would help the Democrats. But the Republicans saw this and decided to use it to their advantage. They had lists of people who were gun owners and other conservatives and organized a vote-by-mail turnout campaign to mobilize them to vote against a gun control measure also on the ballot and vote for Deukmejian at the same time, believing that the mailed ballots could be decisive in an otherwise close election.

I would point out that Bradley's fellow Democrat, then-Gov. Jerry Brown, lost a bid for the U.S. Senate that day by about a half-million votes, so Bradley actually did much better than Brown, another indication that there was no appreciable anti-black sentiment working that day. A lot of moderate Democrats and independents voted for Bradley, but did not vote for Brown, shifting to his Republican rival, Pete Wilson.

After the election, Mervin Field promulgated the theory that the pre-election polling was wrong because voters had lied to poll-takers about their intention to vote against a black candidate, even though there was never any statistical evidence, as Tarrance has observed.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/441/prejudice-campaign.htm ...
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Hokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I think that is the article that I read
Invoking the Bradley effect into this election is a blatant attempt to inject racism and to try to keep the "close horse race" fable alive. Am I surprised that the media would stoop to this? Not really.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. it was also an excuse by pollsters AND the Bradley campaign to cover for their errors
that's the key point.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
7. I looked up more states than that, & found a REVERSE Bradley Effect.
I will have to post my results later, since I'm walking out the door. But I counted results ONLY if they were 5% or more off, one way or the other. For almost ALL of the states.

I found that in 2 instances (I think it was NH & CA) that the polls showed Obama would do better than he did (again, by a difference of more than 5 pts.)

But I found that in something like 12 instances, the polls showed Obama would do WORSE than he ultimately did! (again, by a difference of more than 5 pts.)

What's more, I found that there were about 4 states where the polls showed that CLINTON would do better than she did (by a difference of more than 5 pts.).

So I found a reverse Bradley Effect for Obama. AND did I find a Clinton Effect?

Schwing!:bounce:
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Hokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. If you can send the data I will add to the list a repost this.
I think it is very important that we kill the concept of the Bradley effect. It is pure fiction and it is being used every day, and I mean EVERY DAY, by the media to try to downplay Obama's lead.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Here's data of what I found in polls vs. results in the Dem. Primary.
I used an “average” of most recent polls before each primary that I could find. Most were from Realclearpolitics.com. I counted ONLY those results that were OUTSIDE THE MARGIN OF 5%, to judge whether there was a Bradley Effect.

OH & PA aren’t listed because results were within the 5% margin of what the polls showed (for both Clinton AND Obama).

I didn’t count FL & MI for obvious reasons.

I don’t see any evidence of a Bradley Effect in these results. In fact, what’s surprising is that there is an opposite effect. I had no idea. Doesn’t mean the same thing will happen in the general election. But this gives me more of a sense of calm about it.

Overestimating polls - where O did WORSE MORE THAN 5 PTS. than polls said he would:

New Hampshire (polls – Obama +8.3. Final results – Clinton won +2.6)

California (polls – Obama +1.2. Final results – Clinton won +9.6)



Underestimating polls – where O did BETTER MORE THAN 5 PTS. Than polls said he would:

North Carolina (polls – Obama +8.0. Final results – Obama won +14.7)

Wisconsin (polls – Obama +4.3. Final results – Obama won +17.4)

Virginia (polls – Obama +17.7. Final results – Obama won +28.2)

Missouri (polls – Clinton +5.7. Final results – Obama won +1.3)

Colorado caucus (polls – no average, but Clinton with over 15% win in last 3 polls, & one Obama win of 2%. Final results – Obama won 36 delegates to Clinton’s 19)

Oregon (polls – Obama +12. Final results – Obama +17.6)

Georgia (polls – Obama +13. Final results – Obama won +35.3)

Maine (polls – Clinton +17 only one poll. Final results – Obama won 15 delegates; Clinton won 9 delegates)

South Carolina (polls – Obama +11.6. Final results – Obama won +28.9)

Iowa caucus (polls – Obama +1.6. Final results – Obama won +7.8)

Connecticut (polls – Clinton +4.0. Final results – Obama won +3.1)


Overestimating polls – where CLINTON did WORSE more than 5 pts. than polls said she would:

Missouri (polls – Clinton +5.7. Final results – Obama won +1.3)

Colorado caucus (polls – no average, but Clinton with over 15% win in last 3 polls, & one Obama win of 2%. Final results – Obama won 36 delegates to Clinton’s 19)

Maine (polls – Clinton +17 only one poll. Final results – Obama won 15 delegates; Clinton won 9 delegates)

Connecticut (polls – Clinton +4.0. Final results – Obama won +3.1)



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VADem11 Donating Member (783 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. More proof
Edited on Sat Nov-01-08 09:54 AM by VADem11
In Tennessee in 2006, Harold Ford lost the Senate race in a very tight race. The polls predicted the outcome:

Polls:
Date Ford Jr.(D) Corker (R)
OnPoint Polling and Research November 6, 2006 47% 48%
Rasmussen November 5, 2006 47% 51%
Survey USA November 5, 2006 46% 51%
USA Today/Gallup November 4, 2006 46% 49%

He lost 51-48. No Bradley effect.

And in Ohio, the African-American republican SOS Ken Blackwell ran against Democrat Ted Strickland:
Polls: Strickland (D) Blackwell (R)
Survey USA November 6, 2006 55% 38%
University of Cincinnati November 6, 2006 59% 37%
CNN October 31, 2006 59% 36%

Blackwell got 37% of the vote and the polls were accurate. Again, there was no Bradley effect.
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