Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Pollster.com calls out Drudge and Fox for misuse of polls in hyping news

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:23 AM
Original message
Pollster.com calls out Drudge and Fox for misuse of polls in hyping news



No Changes in national polls



Pollster.com ran an unusual note basically chiding those news agencies that cherry pick a particluar poll.


The most important thing to keep in mind about pre-election polls is that they come with random variability built-in. That mostly predictable variation -- known to most of us as "the margin of error' -- comes from interviewing what we hope amounts to a random sample of likely voters rather than everyone that casts a ballot. So, if you look at a batch of new polls every day, the law of random chance guarantees that some polls will show your favorite candidate doing a little better and some will show that candidate doing a little worse. Moreover, one poll in twenty should produce, by chance alone, an odd result that falls outside of the reported margin of error (since that statistic is typically based on a 95% level of statistical confidence).

Given the number of new polls we are now seeing every day, it is all too easy to cherry pick one poll -- or easier still, one subgroup in one poll -- that seems to indicate a sudden, seemingly dramatic change and blow it up with a misleading scare headline. (including a link to Drudge)

The best advice I can offer right now, especially to journalists, is to emphasize what most of the surveys are telling us consistently and ignore the odd, contrary result, especially if hyped beyond all recognition by the pollsters themselves. More often than not, that odd "finding" turns out to be meaningless noise. The pollsters that shamelessly hype their results one day, take it back the next, while issuing warnings that important blocks of voters remain "volatile." Hardly. At this point, any such volatility tells us more about shortcomings in the polls than about volatility in the voters


No example of narrowing




Back to the national trend. There is simply no evidence as of yesterday's releases of a late narrowing of Obama's margin. The margin on our national trend has ticked up about a point in Obama's favor over the last two days. As usual, none of the national tracking surveys showed anything approaching a statistically significant change. Five of those results showed small, nominal shifts in Obama's direction, two showed unchanged margins and only one showed a small shift in McCain's direction.




Pollster.com trend for Battleground states

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. 9 recs with no replies!
kick!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Psst_Im_Not_Here Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. Kick!
Still, get out there and knock on doors and make some calls. Let's button this thng down!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for the "sigh of relief" post
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. K & R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm concerned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. Why? Because FAUX said you should be concerned?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nice post. K&R! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal Mommy Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. K & R
Thank you for this! :kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. This is a good primer for how polls work. K&R. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue For You Donating Member (466 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. Fox and Drudge don't "cherry pick", they chop down the tree.
:spank:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Welcome to DU .. and after they chop down the tree they bulldoze
the land around it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. Excellent post! Excellent info! Take THAT Drudge!!!
K&R!! Love those graphs.. very easy to read.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. Shocking. I tell you I am shocked!
:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chrisnreno Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thank you Pollster.com. K&R. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
abumbyanyothername Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. The poll line that interests me is . . .
the "Already Voted" line.

And Obama leads that line in every poll by 15-20 points.

Which is better than Reagan did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. right
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
15. No concerns here! k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. Fixed news is waging psychological warfare on the American public. Someday in someway these sleaze
balls will get their just desserts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. k&r for the truth! The (R)s are dishonest and spinning like tops.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
19. Good!
Now if we can just get them to call out some of the posters at DU who post panic riddled drivel every time there's a point change in the polls.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. They should also call out MSNBC for their NBC/Mason-Dixon polls they KEEP using
today.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. yes, where did that poll come from. just out of the blue and bam
screw all the other polls, it's the mason/dixon poll.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lumpsum Donating Member (611 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
21. Florida is still too close for comfort.
But now I know Obama will win PA. Which pretty much means he will win across the board.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
22. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blondiegrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
24. Wow. Good to know. Thanks! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
26. It's also a criticism of Zogby.
He's revealed himself to be a very unprofessional pollster.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smb Donating Member (761 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
28. 95% Confidence Means 2.5% Chance Of Outliers In Each Direction
Edited on Mon Nov-03-08 09:39 AM by smb
If the poll is just within "margin of error" (and most of the ones Morning Joke et al are touting as "within the margin of error" are just barely so) and is at 95% confidence, that means a 2.5% chance that McLame is actually winning, and an equal 2.5% chance that he's losing twice as badly (or worse) than the poll number says.

Given that McLame needs to run the board of tossup states, he's in the position of somebody gambling on getting the grand prize with a single lottery ticket.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC