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Howard Dean made some interesting comments about McCain on AAR yesterday.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 10:42 PM
Original message
Howard Dean made some interesting comments about McCain on AAR yesterday.
Edited on Sun Nov-02-08 11:16 PM by madfloridian
I always miss that show, XM keeps changing times...and I don't listen a lot on Saturdays. It was on 7 Days in America, and I wish I would remember to listen.

The interview was with Mark Green, and the statements Dean made about John McCain were very interesting. I have heard many people locally say it about McCain.

From The Huffington Post:

7 Days in America, Interview with Howard Dean, November 1, 2008

Audio of the whole show is up at the link also.

GREEN: If McCain had run in 2008 more like the independent-moderate maverick of 2000, would he have been more competitive?

DEAN: Yes, I do, and I'll tell you why. First of all, I think someone running from the far right is not particularly attractive. But the real John McCain, I've concluded after watching him for all these years, is the John McCain of 2000, not the John McCain of 2008. I think an awful lot of supporters of John McCain in 2000 will not vote for him in 2008. And I don't even think he's comfortable doing what he's doing, and that comes out in the campaign appearances: he just doesn't appear to be comfortable, because it's not who he is. I think it was a terrible mistake that was made because the disciples of Karl Rove and George Bush are running the campaign. What they've done is to poison the American political well, and unfortunately I think that John McCain has been the victim of that poisoning.


The Rove people took over the McCain campaign in July of this year, and the whole mood of the campaign changed for the worse.

There were also some other interesting comments made in the interview.

GREEN: After all the kvetching about Jews and Obama, what do you think of polls now predicting that while Kerry won 77% of the Jewish vote in 2004, Obama is on track to get 75%?

DEAN: That is not the least bit surprising. You know, I'll tell you, as someone who has "married into the tribe," as they say...the reason that American Jews vote for Democrats has nothing to do with Israel. It has everything to do with what makes a Jew in America. These are folks who emigrated from lands where most of the time they were persecuted - I'm not talking just about the people who came over because of Hitler, I'm talking about the people who came over before that because of pogroms in the Ukraine, or Russia. They have such a community-based view of what we owe each other as people; this is a very community-minded group, and that's why they vote Democratic. And the Republicans, always, every year, "Oh my God, the Democrats aren't going to get the Jewish vote because of Israel!" First of all, the Democrats are just as pro-Israel as the Republicans are. But secondly, the Democratic values are core values in the Jewish community, and that is why we always end up with between 70% and 80% of the Jewish vote.


He also made some statements on the one-party rule fear mongering the GOP has been doing. He has said the same thing in other interviews.

GREEN: McCain/Palin at this 11th hour are warning against one-party control of the federal government, using Obama-Reid-Pelosi as a kind of Holloween hobgoblin. Can this work?

DEAN: What you've got here is a party that did have one-party government for six years, and they were a disaster. They didn't do anything right: they couldn't balance the budget, they messed up Katrina, they got us into a war.... So then, you had two years of divided government, when we took back the House and the Senate, and what did the Republicans do? They used their blocking minority in the Senate - and they said this - to make the Democrats look bad. Well, if that's what you're going to do with divided party rule, then you shouldn't have it. So what my pitch is, look, give us a chance. We've had one-party rule on the Republican side and it was awful. And now, give us a chance. You know, there's an election with a third of the Senate up for election two years from now, so if we don't do what you want, you can get rid of us. But give us a chance to rebuild America.


Good way to put it...give us a chance to fix things. Vote us out if we don't do it.

I agree with Dean that John McCain looks uncomfortable. I am more inclined to think he really has changed that much, though. If he had not become such a man of the party, he would have had the courage to resist choosing Sarah Palin. There must have been some other choice, but he caved in.



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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. He's very charitable toward McCain but I'm not sure I agree
McCain is obviously a very weak person if he let these wing nuts take control of the persona he had worked for so many years to construct. He deserves to pay the price for his spinelessness. And once I saw "the picture" after what bush's thugs did to him in 2000 I knew he was a coward. And I knew how he was gonna react.



"The Picture"
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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yep, it doesn't speak much about him to say his 2000 personality is the real one...
Because then he's not being true to himself this year. And he has nobody to blame for that than himself.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. he learned to unquestioningly do what he was told about 40 years ago.
those lessons, and his overweening megalomania, have made him the man he is today.

he's not any different than he was eight years ago, only moreso
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. mccain is so desperate to win that he
reveals his real personality is what I'm goin' with.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. "The Picture" should never be forgotten.
He has turned into a pathetic caricature of himself. His choice of Palin was a tragic move for the country.
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tex-wyo-dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I agree...his choice of Palin was tragic...
And it seems to have created some sort of monster that has really brought the wingnut right- wing fringe out of their hidey-holes and shown their true character.

Not sure yet whether this will result in some sort of bizarre sustainable "movement" or will futher fragment and destroy the GOP. It seems caribou barbie has some pretty high aspirations for herself regardless.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. I love Howard Dean, and think he is one of the shrewdest statesmen around, but I think he was being
very generous to McSame. Maybe he knows him personally and just cannot believe that McSame could be doing the things he is seeing.
I believe that what we are seeing NOW is the true McSame that exists NOW. He simply is no longer the man he was in 2000. Whatever principles he may have had in the past are long gone. They have been totally lost in the ocean of his ambition and self-centeredness.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, I don't feel that kind toward McCain.
I don't think it is the same man.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. Rec'd~Good ol' Dean..you can count on him
to bring some words of wisdom and common sense to the party.

"First of all, the Democrats are just as pro-Israel as the Republicans are. But secondly, the Democratic values are core values in the Jewish community, and that is why we always end up with between 70% and 80% of the Jewish vote."

Thanks, mad~
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I liked that part.
:hi:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Too true..
:hi:
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Dean is very perceptive about the Jewish vote, as in everything else. nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Very much so. Interesting comments.
He's in a position to know.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Fundamentalists are a kind of fringe group in all the religions & they have much in common
... with each other. The people who are batshit crazy about Israel are the fundamentalists (Christian and Jewish) who are hot for the End Times. That's an offensive way of putting it, but still. The Neocons find these people useful, and they find each other useful at times.

Nearly everybody else can fairly rationally assess Israel's long association with the US as a special ally -- which they are -- and as a key player in the fate of the Middle East. Plenty of American Jews want peace with the Palestinians, among other things.

Judaism as a religion tends to be oriented toward this world, not the next one. As elections show year after year, most American Jews are very concerned with the things Howard Dean talked about, which are the immediate and concrete ways in which we as a society behave toward the people in the here and now. And the Democratic Party is the one that shares those concerns.

Hekate


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Good point you made.
"immediate and concrete ways in which we as a society behave toward the people in the here and now"

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Dean is prescient like Obama
that's one of the reasons we liked and like him so much.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. Foreward looking, common sense.
Our party for years had let the consultants draft talking points and trite statements that meant little.
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yes, I agree...McCain does look uncomfortable
I think McCain had a choice a few years ago. I remember reading that he considered becoming an independent and caucusing with the Dems....that was choice number one. His second choice was to become a Bush clone. I think he chose number 2 because he saw it as his best option for becoming president. The Democrats obviously wouldn't have nominated him. The Republican would only nominate him if he walked the party line. So I agree, the 2000 McCain would've done well in the general election but he probably wouldn't have gotten the nomination.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. He made his choice to toe the party line.
It's like he's just going along for the ride now with Palin taking over.

It's rather sad and pathetic, but it's too disgusting to invite much sympathy.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
16. He called McCain out on his use of the word "socialism"
http://media.www.mainecampus.com/media/storage/paper322/news/2008/11/03/News/Howard.Dean.Urges.Students.To.Vote.For.moral.Authority-3520182.shtml

""We need that $10 billion right here in Maine and the United States of America. We've done our jobs in Iraq; we've gotten rid of Saddam Hussein. Now let the Iraqis govern themselves, and let us bring that money and our troops back here."

Dean said health care needs to be available for everyone.

"For John McCain to call that socialism is just plain ignorance," he said.


The main issues voters need to concern themselves with is how the next president will heal national partisanship and restore the moral authority of the U.S., Dean said.

He cited the Good Friday Accords and the Camp David Accords as examples of policy formed through moral authority.

"You can do those things if you have the moral authority to bring people to the table. If you don't have the moral authority, people won't pay any attention to you," he said. "We need an America that commands moral authority."

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
20. With divided gov't, repubs admitted they used their power to make the Democrats look bad.
Edited on Mon Nov-03-08 11:22 AM by redqueen
Country first! :eyes:

I'm glad to hear him saying this. Would like to hear it from Obama today, too. :)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. With the Republicans it has been party first...the country first is a joke.
Dean said it well, glad to hear it.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Exactly... it's been that way for years now.
Since 1980 at the very least.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
22. Old mclame meet the same mclame. he's the same guy
he has always been.

this is a must read from rolling stone and lays out mclame's life and personality very neatly.

It's a bit long, but worth it.
.......
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print

Make-Believe Maverick
A closer look at the life and career of John McCain reveals a disturbing record of recklessness and dishonesty
TIM DICKINSON
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JimWis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
23. Good answers by Dean. Especially the one party issue. Very
interesting. Thanks for the post.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Agreed. He gives good common sense answers.
:hi:
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LesserFool Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
25. McCain the Victim? C'mon!
I agree that McCain 2008 is not the McCain of 2000? But to suggest he is the "victim" of the disciples of Rove is to suggest that McCain never was in command. Which, IMO, is far more condemnatory than anything else. Just because he MAY have felt uncomfortable pulling a ROVE does not mean he didn't agree to use that style of campaigning. In the end, "the buck stops here." McCain will have to EAT the whole damn mess he made. I don't feel sorry for him in the least. Do you really think he'd feel sorry for the depths he plunged were he to pull off an electoral victory?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I think we agree.
Dean was being kind.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
27. Mark Green's own comments about McCain were interesting.
"What went wrong with McCain? Nearly everything. But mostly, he ran an OK GOP campaign for 1952, 1968, 1980... but not 2008. A Cold-War candidacy in the age of Google?

Let's put aside for a moment the phenomenon of Obama, his eloquence, equanimity, organizing skills. McCain was old-time religion in the era of super-churches, a cold warrior when non-state actors are the biggest variables, a deregulator when even Randian Alan Greenspan questioned market fundamentalism. He always seemed to be Mel Gibson in Forever Young, a 1940s flyboy transported to and stumbling around in the 1990s.

He simply ran plays from the Grand OLD Party's playbook when, as Obama was doing on the other side, it was essential to call audibles given the context of Bush, Katrina, the credit crisis."

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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
29. I agree McCain is visibly uncomfortable doing what he is told he must do
Edited on Mon Nov-03-08 03:05 PM by Gman
This is not the McCain we've known over the years. I think the SNL McCain the other night is the real McCain. We haven't always agreed with McCain, but remember Kerry considered him for the VP position. Prior to McCain locking up the nomination and prior to selling his soul to the RW, I felt I could live with a McCain presidency. I wouldn't like it, but at the time, it didn't seem that it would be anything like Bush. That's not the case now.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Whichever it is, it is sad to see what he has become.
:hi:
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
32. This article is about Howard Dean and I approve. I think the 2000-2008
comparison is as good as any to attempt to explain him. I'm beginning to think that the man has been unstable in many ways for a long time, but he dropped his 'pretense' of being normal in this past year.

I think we're very lucky to have Dean. Straight arrow. Wise. Driven and generous. For us.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
33. Re Dean's 2nd statement: Palm Beach Post about Jewish voters
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/shared/news/stories/2008/10/JEWISH_VOTE31_PBP.html

"WASHINGTON — Jewish voters appear to be "coming home" to the Democratic Party, in the words of one political strategist.

A Gallup poll released on Oct. 23 had Sen. Barack Obama winning 74 percent of the Jewish vote, up 13 points from July.

A Quinnipiac University poll released the same day has Obama beating out Sen. John McCain among Florida Jews by a more than three-to-one margin.

Jews comprise less than 3 percent of the U.S. population, but are statistically significant enough to affect key battleground states like Florida."

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