Is my brother committing voter fraud?

[Zombie2]

I know he's voting for McSame... (that's fraud enough) unfortunate, I know. I'll just tell ya he's a brainwashed baptist preacher. Anyway, he moved from Indiana about a year ago... they moved to Alabama. He's been renting out his house in Indiana. Mom tells me him and his wife are driving up to Indiana in time to vote. If he hasn't been living around here for a year or so, is he doing the right thing?

After some consideration, if he's in the wrong, I've concluded that it'd be extremely fun to call ahead to his polling place and have someone challenge their votes. Yes, I'm evil.... aren't I? ;D

[hobbit709]

1. Do it

[Dammit Ann]

2. Sounds like it to me.

Not evil, just very morally motivated.

[Homer Wells]

3. Sounds illegal to me. Go for it!! nt

[trueblue2007]

60. I'd do it. If he doesn't LIVE there and legally lives someplace else ...ELECTION FRAUD!!!

Turn him in. I'd do it to my freeper sister and husband. I'd expect them to do it to me if I was trying to vote illegally.

BE HONEST!!!

[renie408]

4. Yes he is and yes, you should. n/t

[WinkyDink]

5. Hello? TWO different voters from ONE Indiana address? Where has he PAID TAXES?? Uh, yeah---he's a

fraudulent voter, IMHO.

[specialed]

6. He is breaking the law.

You have to vote in the state of your Primary residence.

[Zombie2]

7. What's the best course of action?

Thanks for the replies!

He formally lived in a small town here in Indiana... I'm guessing they're only going to have one polling location in that small town. Shall I just call the Democratic Headquarters (that I know the number for) in the next largest town over and go from there?

[davidpdx]

8. Well I'm assuming you know where his polling place is

and how you would have someone challange his vote. Keep in mind, it may come out how they found out. Then again all they should have to do is ask for his driver's license and if he has one from Alabama, then his vote will be thrown out.

[Zombie2]

12. I can find out where the polling place is.....

I'm not too sure how to go about having someone challenge this vote. It would be extremely fun if they found out... *sarcasm * My sisters wedding is the following weekend.

I know him and his wife both still have IN drivers licenses.

[rucky]

9. If there's a utility bill in his name

or a copy of the lease, and he didn't vote twice (absentee in AL), I think he's technically okay to vote, even though it's a chickenshit move.

[ITsec]

10. A Baptist preacher? I wonder what his God thinks of his plan. n/t

[mod mom]

11. Contact the Indiana SOS-link:

http://www.in.gov/sos/

[Zombie2]

13. Thanks!

[flpoljunkie]

14. Tell him what he's doing is real voter fraud and is prosecutable. Notify Dems to be on poll lookout.

[JohnMcCant2008]

15. Illegal. Call.

[Ozma]

16. If he's paying State income taxes in INDY, he can claim it as his residence

State income taxes? State other taxes?

I doubt it.

Challenge his right to vote there.

[MiniMe]

17. Remember the flap when Ann Coulter voted and was registered at the wrong address?

Report it.

[Marrah_G]

18. I'm going to go with an unpopular question.

I really it's fun to play gotcha, but if this came back to bite him, would you be okay with him being arrested and anything else that might come from such an arrest? Would you be okay with your family knowing it was you who called?

Think of all the consequences before you act. Then make your decision.

[Zombie2]

20. hahah....

If he's doing something illegal... that's between him, the authorities, and god. Although, I'm not sure if it's going to be ok if the family knows I'm the one that got him busted... I'm going to try to do this anonymously.

I do know the consequences if I don't act... I can't sit back and let 2 someones vote for McCain if I can help it.

[brendan120678]

27. Exactly. Family comes before politics...always.

He should tell his brother directly that he is disappointed in what the brother is doing, but reporting him is a dumb idea.

Edited to add:
Which do you think is better -
1. Being unemployed and flat broke, but still have your family and friends; or
2. Being well-off financially, healthy and employed, but all your family and friends dislike you?

Without question, I'll take option 1.

[ieoeja]

63. A large chunk of my family hates me because I don't think gays should be abused.

I am perfectly happy being disliked by evil people who just happen to be related to me.

My grandmother was excommunicated from her family for (1) getting raped and impregnated by her father as a small child and (2) going on to marry a Roman Catholic (her family was Klan). She went to her grave still saying how much happier her life became the moment she never had to deal with any of them again.

A friend of mine had her apartment burglarized several times by her brothers and her identity stolen ... by her parents. Her father raped her when she was a child, and one of her brothers did so when she was an adult. I eventually talked her into running away from her family. She has not spoken to any of those people in almost a decade, and is the happiest she has ever been in her life.

Another friend of mine became entangled in various crimes through his family before finally telling them all goodbye so he could live a crime-free life as a good citizen.

I will take option 2. You can always make new friends and even a new family. The happenstance of being related to them does not change the fact that:

Bad People Suck.

Besides, this isn't about politics, it is about his brother committing a crime. Would you put family before right and wrong?

[Zombie2]

67. My family is not very close....

...so I'm tempted to pick option 2 as well.

[iamthebandfanman]

77. arrested? i doubt that

he just wont be allowed to vote

[TeeYiYi]

19. I moved 9 months ago...

... and never registered to vote in the place I'm living right now. So, I have to drive 50 miles to vote for Obama tomorrow.

Which one of you wants to call ahead and screw up my vote?...

TYY

[comtec]

21. Arre you trying to vote TWICE?

then kindly stfu kthxbi

[demmiblue]

26. The OP never stated that his brother was trying to vote in both places.

[Marrah_G]

34. Did the Op say he was also voting in Alabama?

[comtec]

39. It does sound like it.

It's not completely clear, but it does sound as if genuine fraud is happening, and wouldn't you know it, it's a right wing preacher.
I would say in your case you are not. You only vote in the one location, which is not the same as crossing state lines from your current residence.

but hey, if you WANT to be accused of voter fraud, that's your thing.

[Marrah_G]

40. I think you meant to reply to the guy above me.

[Zombie2]

42. I honestly don't know anything about him trying to vote...

twice. He's a piece'o shit (IMO) for voting for McCain, but I don't think he would go that low as to try to vote twice.

[comtec]

47. In that case it sounds like it's just jerk baiting - POST 1000!

Aside from a vicious kind of satisfaction, is there really a point?

YAY POST 1000!!!!

I'm OFFICIALLY A STARRY POSTER.. YAY!!!!! :)

(edited to add post 1k :) )

[Zombie2]

50. Jerk baiting??

1000 post?

[mod mom]

22. Actually you must vote in the precinct you currently reside and put in a change of address.

If you vote early you can put in the change of address at the time you vote (at least in Ohio-check your state requirements) but if you wait until election day you will have to vote provisionally and put in a change of address. The reason it is illegal to vote where you formerly reside is because you don't have the right to vote on issues/races where you do not reside.

[crispini]

23. Not true in Texas, better check your state laws.

In Texas you can legally vote at the precinct for your former residence up to two years after you have moved.

[bushisanidiot]

28. If you've been there 9 months, why haven't you registerd to vote there?

is it a permanent residence? if so, you have no right to go vote at your former precinct because you don't live there anymore.. you aren't paying local taxes that pay for those polling places, voting machines, police, fire department, etc. Only the people who live there have the right to vote there.

[demmiblue]

24. In which state does he claim/have residency ?

Is he maintaining a Louisiana Driver's License/tags (I do not know what the state residency laws are).

There are a lot of people that spend a considerable amount of time away from their place of residence, such as snowbirds and people currently residing in other countries. I would think that they are legally able to rent out their homes, while still being able to place a vote.

If he is an official resident of Alabama, then I would think that he is committing fraud. If he is voting in both places, then he is obviously committing fraud (I know, duh!).

[kdpeters]

25. Do it and then warn them about what you've done so they don't even try to attempt voter fraud.

Tell them you've notified the SOS, the Obama campaign and the local Democratic party and then advise them that it wouldn't be a good idea to attempt what they were planning to attempt. But hey, as long as they made the trip, invite them over to watch the election results.

[Barack_America]

29. It's illegal. And I think you should call.

Not as a "gotcha" to your brother, but out of fairness to the people of Indiana. Your brother no longer lives there and has no business interfering in their elections.

[Zombie2]

30. Well well...

I just called the local Dem office and they said they're pretty sure nothing illegal is going on there. Due to the fact that he still owns the home in Indiana.

I've tried talking with him about politics before.... it's useless. He's the type that gives blind support (go figure) without even bothering to pay attention the speeches, debates, etc. The latest converstation went something like, "I don't know of one single person that's had their home forclosed on... do you? The economy is not doing bad... blah blah blah" Me - "Well no *brother*, I don't even know anyone my age (34) lucky enough to own their own home."

[Hamlette]

31. It is against the law. I wouldn't report him because I would take greater pleasure

in saying things like "You know, the republicans complain about voter fraud but the only people I've ever known personally who actually committed voter fraud was my brother" at every family event forever. Oh, but only when he or other GOP family members are listening. Or maybe write a letter to the editor if he really pisses you off.

[Zombie2]

37. YOU BET....

I'll be saying "You know, the republicans complain about voter fraud but the only people I've ever known personally who actually committed voter fraud was my brother" every chance I get... I'll need to get my dad in on the action as well.

Everyone else in my immediate family will be voting for Obama.

[demmiblue]

44. So... how did he actually commit voter fraud?

From looking at your responses, you admit that he is only registered to vote in one state: Indiana.

Why shouldn't he vote there? That is the place where he is registered to vote.

Perhaps you should have given more info in your OP.

If I moved and wasn't able to vote at my new location, you bet your ass I would have traveled miles to vote for Obama! Whether or not I agree with his vote, it is his vote to give.

[Zombie2]

51. Why....

should he get to vote for my local candidates when he doesn't live here and has no plans on moving back to Indiana.

As I said in another reply, he's trying to sell his house and he has no intentions of ever living in Indiana again.

[demmiblue]

68. That is not the point... how did he commit voter fraud?

He didn't. You went so far as to contact your local Dem office, and they told you the same thing. Get over it.

If you have issues with this, then you should attempt to change the rules.

[Zombie2]

69. I am "over it" as much as I can be...

I still don't think it's right that he's going to be voting for local races somewhere he's moved from a year ago... somewhere he will never live at again.

I NEVER said he committed voter fraud... I was asking the good people here if he was. What's wrong with that? It seemed fishy to me, so I thought I would ask.

What's your problem?

[demmiblue]

73. No problem here...

however, I believe that you totally misrepresented your brother's voter status by leaving out pertinent information.

You said that you thought he didn't commit voter fraud, yet you went as far as to make an inquiry as to the situation. Gee, isn't that an assumption that he committed voter fraud? In your words: "I just called the local Dem office and they said they're pretty sure nothing illegal is going on there. Due to the fact that he still owns the home in Indiana."

Again, get over it!

[Zombie2]

75. totally misrepresented?????

Please don't explain this to me because I don't care to go back and forth with someone like you. I just don't understand what other information you would have wanted from me?

I don't know all the details of my brothers situation... I tried to give the info I had in the best way I could... and I think it was enough to get a yes or no answer, maybe some direction. I didn't post to mislead anyone. I don't understand why you'd be saying something like that. Nor did I post to get beat down into the ground by anyone. Other's have stopped by trying to help... and I reply with whatever information.... and so on.

You keep telling me to "get over it"... yet I posted this thread hours ago and I've already gotten my questions answered. How about you get over yourself!

[joeglow3]

72. An Obama supporter here is crossing state lines to vote

He moved to Nebraska about a month ago. Rather than throw his vote away here, he stayed registered in Iowa to make his vote worth more. Should I report him???

Honestly, I would personally not report either. However, I am a bit conflicted as I would hate to see an election (on either side) decided by this kind of crap. I guess I may be naive in thinking this does not happen enough to influence anything.

[stillcool]

32. Since it is his legal address..

and he has not registered to vote in the state that he is now residing in, where would you expect him to vote?

[Zombie2]

35. I know, I know...

I just find it hard to think of the place in Indiana as his legal address when he's moved from there, rented it out and is trying to sell it, and states that he has no plans whatsoever to ever move back to Indiana from Alabama.

Since he hasn't registered to vote in Alabama in time to vote in this election, I would take that as him passing on the right to vote in this election.

[stillcool]

45. What? You think he has no right..

to vote? His legal address has not changed. He owns property in the state in which he has registered to vote. What more do you want? Why should he not be able to vote? I don't understand why you would have a problem with any citizen voting.

[progressivebydesign]

76. No. I don't think that just owning rental property makes it your legal address.

It has to be considered your primary residence, I'm pretty sure. And unless he and his wife are sleeping with his renters, I don't think he can do that.

[stillcool]

84. I can't imagine why...

it would not be his legal address. He hasn't changed it. He has documentation to prove that it is his legal address. He can live anywhere in the world and come back and vote in that same place, because it is still his permanent legal address.

[fed_up_mother]

33. as long as he only votes once, I really don't care where he votes

My daughter's been away for quite a while, but she's voting here. She doesn't know anything about the political climate where she's currently living.

[rdublue]

36. If he's not voting in both places, I can't see that it makes that much difference

Does he have an Alabama drivers license? If he does then that might present a problem for them. Too bad he's voting for McCain...

[Zombie2]

41. As far as I know, they still have Indiana drivers licenses...

Yes, it's a terrible shame. I'm sure it has a lot to do with abortion issues and the same sex marriage thing.

Please pray for the grace of forgiveness.

[Two Americas]

38. one person, one vote

This isn't that complicated. One person = one vote, and the fewer obstacles and hurdles the better.

I wish people here would stop feeding the right wing propaganda about this by talking about voting as though it were some sort of privilege that people need to jump through hoops to earn.

One person trying to cast one vote should never be viewed with suspicion or obstructed in any way.

[Zombie2]

43. I understand what you're saying...

...but if he doesn't live anywhere near this area, why should he get to vote my local officials into office?

[Two Americas]

71. there is that

That is relatively minor.

[EffieBlack]

46. Probably not

He owns property in Indiana and it is reasonable to conclude that, even though he lives somewhere else right now, that he still considers Illinois his residence. As long as he's only voting in one place, there's a lot of leeway as to where he chooses to cast that vote under these circumstances.

[RedCloud]

48. Lay off Zombie 2...

His brother, who is a preacher, has put his heart and soul in Alabama.

It is therefore a SIN for him to pretend it is elsewhere. Shame on him.

[Zombie2]

52. Thank you very much.... n/m

(edit: Republicans are dirty tricksters)

[EFerrari]

49. Do you know enough about the situation?

Does your brother own property in IN, for example? Do you know what he claims as his residence on his taxes?

[Zombie2]

53. As stated in several replies....

...he does own property in Indiana. He's been trying to sell it. He has no intentions of ever moving back to Indiana and he's relocated to Alabama for about a year or so. I don't know about his taxes.

[EFerrari]

57. Then you don't know what he claims as his legal residence?

[demo dutch]

58. This what Indiana law says about voter eligibility:

www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title3/ar7/ch13.pdf

[Zombie2]

59. No

[treestar]

65. Owning property isn't the same as "residing" somewhere

[yellowcanine]

54. As long as he doesn't vote in two states I would say no. But if he wants to vote in local and state

elections he should be registered where he lives and vote there. I think it would be sleazy to say the least to out him.

[demo dutch]

55. Zombie, Not residing continuously in Indiana for 30 days, Indiana law says this:

www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title3/ar7/ch13.pdf - 2008-10-22
IC 3-7-13-1
Persons eligible to vote
Sec. 1. A person who:
(1) will be at least eighteen (18) years of age at the next general,
municipal, or special election;
(2) is a United States citizen; and
(3) resides in a precinct continuously before a general,
municipal, or special election for at least thirty (30) days;
may, upon making a proper application under this article, register to
vote in that precinct.

Unless he's saved his driver license, he'll be required to present ID won't that create a problem?

[progressivebydesign]

78. Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a winner folks!! DemoDutch has the facts!!! n/t

[Bunny]

56. I am astounded that someone who has lived in Alabama for a year

would spend all that money on gas for his car to drive all the way to Indiana to vote. I didn't think preachers made that much money. I simply don't understand why he didn't register to vote in AL and just vote there. Especially since you indicated elsewhere that he has no intention of moving back to IN. :shrug:

[Zombie2]

61. Our sisters wedding is next weekend....

He drove up for the wedding, but drove up extra early to vote.

[Bunny]

64. Oh. Well, I still think it's a little weird.

And as long as he's only voting once, I wouldn't turn him in. But I would certainly take every opportunity to needle him about it. Where Would Jesus Vote?

[MaryEllen9399]

66. probably because Indiana is in play? nt

[MelissaB]

74. A lot of preachers do very well.

BTW, I'm from Alabama, but have lived in Michigan for a year.

The larger churches pay well.

[mtnester]

62. Call the lawyers at Camp Obama

let them handle it, they know their biz

[Two Americas]

70. disgusting

I am disgusted by the number of people who are willing to promote the "voter fraud" ideas of the right wing.

[4lbs]

79. I don't think they can vote, Zombie. Check IC-3-7-13

IC 3-7-13
Chapter 13. Registration and Voting Requirements; General
Provisions


IC 3-7-13-1
Persons eligible to vote
Sec. 1. A person who:
(1) will be at least eighteen (18) years of age at the next general,
municipal, or special election;
(2) is a United States citizen; and
(3) resides in a precinct continuously before a general,
municipal, or special election for at least thirty (30) days;
may, upon making a proper application under this article, register to
vote in that precinct.
As added by P.L.12-1995, SEC.22.


IC 3-7-13-2
Eligibility to vote in primary election
Sec. 2. A person who, on the day of the next general, municipal,
or special election, will meet the age and residency requirements of
section 1 of this chapter may register and vote in the primary
election.
As added by P.L.12-1995, SEC.22.


IC 3-7-13-3
Eligibility to vote for candidates for elected offices, public
questions, or political party officers
Sec. 3. (a) This section applies to a person who:
(1) on the day of the next general, municipal, or special
election, will meet the age and residency requirements of
section 1 of this chapter; and
(2) does not meet the age or residency requirements on primary
election day.
(b) A person described in subsection (a) may not cast a ballot:
(1) for candidates for:
(A) elected offices;
(B) precinct committeeman; or
(C) state convention delegate; or
(2) on public questions;
to be voted on at the same time that the primary election is
conducted.
As added by P.L.12-1995, SEC.22. Amended by P.L.66-2003, SEC.5.


====================================


To establish "residency" in Indiana, according to IC-3-7-13, the 'voter' must have lived in his voting precinct for at least 30 days prior to the election.

So, unless your brother and his spouse have lived in Indiana for the last 30 days, THEY CANNOT VOTE IN INDIANA.

[Zombie2]

80. Thanks...

to you and demo dutch for brining this to my attention... I'm going to make some more phone-calls on this.

[Essene]

81. You should talk to him directly

Tell him it is wrong. It is illegal. It will get him in serious trouble.

Then tell him you will not allow it.

Leave it at that.

[MrsBrady]

82. it would depend on if his other address is still his LEGAL residence

i don't know what defines that...

but I would find out that FIRST.

Make sure you know before you disenfranchise him.
If he's in the wrong, you might want to do something about it.

But would you say anything if he were voting for Obama? or are you just trying to get back at your brother.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

83. DI IT ! The rules always apply to everyone but them. It's your civic duty.

[SurfinBetty]

85. It depends on how many times he's voting and where he's domiciled

Your place of domicile is where you're supposed to vote. It's very complicated. Yes, I know what I'm talking about.

As long as he considers himself domiciled in Indiana (which probably is not determined how you think it is determined), and he only votes in Indiana, then he is not comitting voter fraud.

Now, if he were to vote in both places, there would be a big problem.

[goodgd_yall]

86. As long as he didn't vote in Alabama,...

On edit: Post #55 seems to have the answer.