Re: GBLT Rights

[Symarip]

MLK didn't say, let's hold off on a march to Washington because the economy was tanking. Yet, there are some people here who are essentially asking us as progressives to do just that: put social and civil issues on the backburner. That type of thought is bogus. Civil rights are more important than winning an election. And if our party loses in the future in order to secure real change today that lasts, it's worth it. This may piss on some peoples Wheaties, but it needs to be said. What good is winning when we haven't won anything but bragging rights? If that's what you're in this for, you need your head adjusted.

Furthermore, what rule book says we can't fix multiple problems at the same time? I didn't get that memo. We can fix this now, and fix our economy, and right this bullshit war and create jobs that work for our environment. It's all possible if we want it. It just means we have to work and hold our elected officials feet to the fire.

Are some people in the country not ready for what changes our brothers and sisters require for equality? You bet. But waiting for them to relinquish their fears means millions every day are persecuted as the rest of us work, sleep, and live the American dream. We have to stand up now and be heard. We made a winner last night. If we all stood up and rattled cans for issues that have meaning, we can make equality as attainable as a Black President.

[myrna minx]

1. K&R

:applause:

[NJmaverick]

2. It would seem to me that winning the hearts and minds of the people

is the critical task. The fact that perhaps the most liberal state in the union rejected gay marriage, means we have a lot of work ahead of us. I guess the elected officials could over rule the will of the people, but all that will result in is those same people voting them out of office and putting the rules back. I think we need a grass roots effort, like was done with the civil rights movement. Remember in the 1950s a solid majority of Americans thought that racially mixed marriages should be outlawed.

[Symarip]

3. Prop 8 should be put into perspective

First, it was close. That's something to work upon.

Secondly, I've already heard from many back home in San Diego that the No on Prop 8 organization was horrendous. Organization is the key to any winning strategy, regardless of message.

And yes, we need boots on the ground. A real grass roots effort where we take this to the streets of places that are seemingly unaffected. We metro folk forget that between San Fran and Santa Barbara is Alabama. We don't need to bring them to the city, we need to bring the fight to them and show them how civil rights benefit all of us, even those who are seemingly uninvolved.

Oh, and we need to start now.

[nichomachus]

4. Well, the real problem was

That the real dirty work was done in the churches. There's no way to counter that. We can't go into the churches and fight back. We can approach people on the street or in their homes, but they just go to church on Sunday and get fed more lies "answering" what we tell them. It's a losing battle.

Also, every ad put out by the Yes side was a lie. Every one. It's hard to fight that too. The No on 8 people are getting a lot of heat for doing exactly what Obama did -- run a positive campaign in an attempt to fight the negativity and the lies. It didn't work, mostly because the bishops, priests, ministers and whatever the Mormons call their leading goofballs, abused the trust that their followers put in them. Their followers come to them looking for the "truth" and they lied to them -- repeatedly.

I suppose you could try to get down in the gutter with them, but that's a questionable strategy.

[JerseygirlCT]

5. I think the key

is in how we look at it.

Once we segregate (forgive me) civil rights from other issues, we've already lost. We need a more organic way of looking at the entire situation, and equal rights is absolutely a part of that entire picture.

It can't be a matter of putting equality on a back burner, but neither can it be a matter of focusing soley on that as a single issue.

What we need is a new paradigm, a new way of seeing the whole picture - a way in which the rights and dignity of all people are respected and recognized. That includes marriage equality, but it also includes health care, for instance, and poverty, and a fair minimum wage, and a just foreign policy.

Am I making sense? The goal is bigger than any one single issue, but the goal *must* encompass issues that are absolutely critical like equality. If the goal doesn't encompass equality, it misses the goal.

[Symarip]

6. We're burning both ends of the candle to say the same thing

But some people seem to think that there is a priority on other issues and therefore, gays will just have to wait. I say, bullshit. Wait no longer. If it requires an inclusive outlook on life in order to gain civil rights, I'm right there with you. But to those that say, chill out, we'll get there. Sorry, I don't plan on chilling.

[JerseygirlCT]

7. I don't think we should. In fact, I don't think we can and still

achieve any of the other goals we have.

So yes, I think we're saying much the same thing. But I do really think we all have to start looking at it in a new way and demanding *human rights* here at home and abroad. And we cannot preach that while actively allowing a flagrant abuse of human rights to go on in so many places in our country and in our federal laws, can we?

[Orsino]

9. Yeah.

The real conservative won last night. We can breathe a sigh of relief that the fascist was shut out of the Executive Branch, but while we were volunteering for change on a national scale, they slipped the Same Old Politics past us in California, Florida, Arizona, etc.

The contorted stance of our ticket helped, in some small way. We have lobbying to do.

[JerseygirlCT]

10. I'm not sure we can make it as simple as blaming a contorted

stance of the ticket.

I think there's a big job ahead in reframing this issue as one of human rights, of fairness and justice. And I think that's most effectively done in that bigger context. When people are seeing other people's rights in the context of *their own* rights, suddenly it makes more sense. So when gay rights are put in context with, say, a just minimum wage, suddenly a few light bulbs go off. It's not a distant problem for *them* - those dangerous *others* - it's a shared problem.

And I'm betting we just elected a guy with the brain cells to pull together the people who can pull together the messaging to do this sort of thing and make it understandable to the public.

[Orsino]

14. Of course it's not that simple.

That's why I said "in some small way."

There was plenty of hate out there already. I'm just afraid that Obama's and Biden's rejection of same-sex marriage had a net negative effect.

[motely36]

8. K&R

:toast:

[justiceischeap]

11. I agree but

Please don't refer to it as GLBT Rights--it's plain old, civil or human rights.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7794168&mesg_id=7794168

[Symarip]

12. Sorry

I think that memo was written after I wrote the OP. And to be honest, my ignorance is due to my understanding that a right is a right. No right is more or less important than any other.

[Chovexani]

13. Thanks. That means a lot.

What this "single issue voter" crap fails to realize that because we are lacking in basic protections in a lot of ways, the bad economy hits us even harder than everyone else. When layoffs happen who do you think gets fired first? And there's so many other examples. It's not about a "single issue" when it's your whole life at stake.