Longtime county elections director: MN Senate HAND recount could add 6,000 votes, Franken getting

[ProgressiveEconomist]

more than Coleman, who now is ahead by just 236 statewide.

Since MN has same-day registration, provisional ballots are rarely used, and so optical scanner maintenance (at county expense) is the major issue. 2 unreadable ballots per 1000 x 3 million ballots = 6,000, disproportionately from first-time voters who just circle the candidate's name or don't fill in the oval completely.

From http://www.kare11.com/includes/tools/print.aspx?storyid=528866

"Could votes that didn't count Tuesday make the difference in a Senate recount?

By Trisha Volpe, KARE 11 News Updated: 11/6/2008 5:28:40 AM

As many as 6,000 votes which didn't count in Tuesday's election for US Senator in Minnesota could count in the upcoming recount. Joe Mansky, director of elections for Ramsey County, says that in any election, as many as 2 in every 1,000 ballots are "spoiled," that is, someone makes a mistake like putting a checkmark in the circle instead of filling it in. The machine rejects those ballots, and normally, they're never counted.

But in a recount, those ballots are reviewed, and if the election judge can determine what the voter intended, the vote could still count. And in a race with almost 3,000,000 voters, that potentially means 6,000 uncounted votes. "Yesterday was my 27th state election," says Mansky. He runs elections in Ramsey County, where 275,000 people cast their ballots on Tuesday, which were processed relatively quickly by machine.

But in Minnesota, recounts are done by hand. ... And at the heart of Minnesota's recount process is the state's voter intent law, which allows an election official to determine what a voter intended to do even if he filled out his ballot in a way the optical scanner couldn't read. "We try not to disenfranchise voters who simply make technical mistakes marking the ballot," says Joe Mansky.

"As long as the mark is made close enough to the candidate's name that we can determine the intent then under our law we will count those votes," says Mansky. And sometimes, a voter may have placed marks next to more than one candidate's name and their choice is unclear to election judges. "If we can't determine the voter's intent, we can't count it," says Mansky. Minnesota's Secretary of State Mark Ritchie says ... it will cost 3-cents per ballot to do the recount. With 2.9 million ballots, that amounts to about $87,000. The recount could take several weeks."

[onehandle]

1. God. I don't ask much. Please give me this. nt

[PretzelWarrior]

3. it would be so awesome for them to win this way. Just like Washington governor 4 yrs ago

after hearing all the Sore-Loserman crap in 2000, it was funny to hear the GOP squealing way more about a lot less in that close election.

I would give my best friends left nut for Franken as senator.

[sunnystarr]

22. I would give YOUR left nut for Franken as Senator!

You've really inspired me towards sacrifice :):)

[SwampG8r]

35. ill give his right nut too!

[madaboutharry]

2. Coleman tried to stop the recount with some lame

bullshit because he knew this.

[yellowcanine]

8. Has Coleman filed a federal lawsuit yet to try to get the SCOTUS to stop the recount?

:rofl:

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

20. ROFL!!!

:rofl:

[...of J.Temperance]

4. I predicted last week that Al Franken would beat Norm Coleman and I

Stick to my prediction.

I LOATHE Coleman, he's such a nasty thug, Coleman losing will be on par when Bob Casey kicked Rick Santorium's ass out.

[PBS Poll-435]

33. You and me both.

The numbers just didn't add up.


Ahead by 1100 with 2/3 of the remaining vote (2% of the state) Franken friendly.

And Coleman ended up ahead?

Right....

:grr:

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

5. Our system is pretty airtight

and we have an excellent Dem SOS. Wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Al flip this.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

31. Given same-day registration and voter-intent laws, MN could be a model for mandatory national

election standards. What would you change? Is there "Voter ID" for those who pre-registered before showing up at the polls? Is early voting long enough, and easy enough throughout the big counties?

[MNReformer]

37. No early voting in MN

We have same day registration. No voter ID required at the polls.

[Muttocracy]

6. the key is those are biased to first-time voters - I assume that helps Franken? nt

[yellowcanine]

10. Hmm. I would think young people would know how to fill out this kind of ballot, though.

It is essentially the same as filling out a SAT answer sheet.

[Muttocracy]

15. but MN has the fill in the line, not the circles, right? I swear that's what I remember

though I don't live there anymore. I certainly had to read the instructions carefully when I first voted there - I was expecting circles.

[dflprincess]

21. I think there are some areas that still have the line,

but a lot of areas have the circles you fill in. My preinct has had those for years.

[Bjorn Against]

24. Not anymore, we fill in circles now.

We used to fill in the lines, but they changed the ballot design a few years back.

[Muttocracy]

16. Also, MN has many Hmong and Somali immigrants who didn't go to school

here but may be new adult citizens.

[dflprincess]

23. Yes we do. And, one of Normie's paid campaign workers was

at a polling place on Tuesday acting as an interpreter for Somalis. There have been complaints that he was pressuring peole to vote for Coleman and those complaints are being looked into.

[yellowcanine]

7. Oh yes, hand counting optically scanned ballots will definately pick up votes.

Both "undervotes" (Circle not filled in or name circled) AND over votes (circle filled in but a stray mark or incomplete erasure creating another vote - machine will not count an overvote ballot for either candidate).

If there are 6000 ballots that were not counted for one reason or another and only a couple of hundred votes separating the candidates, this election could easily go EITHER way at this point.

[Morning Dew]

34. We also have three counties that use Diebold machines

I believe it's three anyway. Washington, Ramsey and Anoka? Not sure. So Norm may have picked up a few votes there.

[Morning Dew]

36. 4 counties

http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:XKl1nwV1qpcJ:www.twincities.com/ci_10910548%3Fnclick_check%3D1+minnesota+counties+diebold+machines+pioneer+press&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Minnesota uses optical-scan machines to tabulate ballots, with most manufactured by Omaha, Neb.-based Election Systems & Software. (Ramsey, Washington, Dakota and Anoka counties use Diebold optical-scan machines.) Ritchie praised the accuracy of optical scans, as do many elections officials and observers.

But they're not perfect.

In the 2006 U.S. Senate race between Amy Klobuchar and Mark Kennedy, for example, the group Citizens for Elections Integrity Minnesota audited more than 94,000 ballots and found 53 unexplained discrepancies — votes where the machine, for some reason, miscounted the result.

Also, the group Voters Unite.org has documented 51 pages of election problems stemming from ESS machines, including some using the same Model 100 that Minnesota uses. Problems have ranged from programming errors, including mistakes in a 1998 Vadnais Heights City Council race, to faulty equipment, such as a scratched sensor.

[IsItJustMe]

9. Take it to the bank, it's a real toss up.

[mwooldri]

11. Several WEEKS? You got to be kidding me!

If the UK constituency of Sunderland South can from polls closing declare a result in 45 minutes with 30,000 votes then with enough bodies MN can have their recount done in one day.

Mark.

[yellowcanine]

18. If they have to hand count and there are disputed ballots it can take a long time.

There will be a Democratic judge and a Republican judge and if they do not agree on a particular ballot it can turn into a real circus.

[kickysnana]

19. By law recount cannot be started until SOS certifies current results scheduled Nov 18.

Three state legislative races will be recounted and then the US Senate race will be recounted.

[WinkyDink]

40. So? It's not 2009 yet.

[myrna minx]

12. As a Minnesotan, I'm confident of our election process. Our SOS is excellent,

and I'm positive that the end result will be accurate.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

26. Thank the gods we got rid of Kiffmeyer in '06

Mark Ritchie is someone I trust.

[myrna minx]

28. Ritchie is a stand up guy. I'm sooo glad Kiffmeyer is gone too. n/t

[MNReformer]

38. Our new recount and audit laws are a new "model"

This is a good test of how well the process works. The new recount law was just signed May 18.

[myrna minx]

41. What I think is great is that those of us who live in Minnesota have such confidence

in our election process. Mark Ritchie is a great SOS.

Stop by the MN Duers forum and say hi. Welcome to DU. :hi:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=160

[LisaL]

13. 6,000 potential votes...

We might still get Senator Al Franken.

[BrklynLiberal]

14. Gee...No wonder Coleman didn't want a recount....

The integrity of the recount sounds pretty good.
I wonder if Coleman is going to hire those folks that were in Florida to stand around and scream that they should stop the recount..?

[dflprincess]

25. Won't do him any good. State law requires this recount

because the difference was less than 1/2 of 1%.

[crossroads]

17. What a nail biter!

:popcorn:

[mzmolly]

27. Wow!

:D

[Az_lefty]

29. Oh, you betcha Al, your gonna win this...

[Lifelong Protester]

30. Yeah, didn't Normie ask Franken to concede today?

and waive his right to a recount? What a douchebag. His sad, puppy dog-eyed (sorry puppy dogs!) TV ads the last few weeks really stuck in my craw.
We need Franken, the guy is a real WONK.

(PS-born in MN, live in WI now, still follow MN politics. Heard Franken speak in public several times,and if I wasn't so happy to have Feingold, I'd be jealous!)

[Touchdown]

32. Now Norm. You don't have to be Senator. You don't have to win.

You don't have to belong to the most powerful deliberative body in the world. You just have to be the best Normie you can be and... Doggonit!... People will like you!

[WinkyDink]

39. And with a Democratic Pres-elect, I'll bet those votes are hand-counted accurately and completely.

[IsItJustMe]

42. We need Al in the Senate.