2 paragraphs that make me wonder just how peaceful Obama is

[ensho]

http://counterpunch.com/


Hail to the Chief of Staff

-snip-

Emanuel, as Ralph Nader points out in my interview with him below, represents the worst of the Clinton years. His profile as regards Israel is explored well on this site by lawyer John Whitbeck. He’s a former Israeli citizen, who volunteered to serve in Israel in 1991 and who made brisk millions in Wall Street. He is a super-Likudnik hawk, whose father was in the fascist Irgun in the late Forties, responsible for cold-blooded massacres of Palestinians. Dad’s unreconstructed ethnic outlook has been memorably embodied in his recent remark to the Ma’ariv newspaper that "Obviously he will influence the president to be pro-Israel… Why wouldn't he be ? What is he, an Arab? He's not going to clean the floors of the White House."

Working in the Clinton White House, Emanuel helped push through NAFTA, the crime bill, the balanced budget and welfare reform. He favored the war in Iraq, and when he was chairing the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee in 2006 he made great efforts to knock out antiwar Democratic candidates. On this site in October and November, 2006, John Walsh documented both the efforts and Emanuel’s role in losing the Democrats seats they would otherwise have won.
-snip-
------------------------------


and Obama will put missiles in Poland.

and more troops in Afghanistan.

guess peace will have to wait.

[NMDemDist2]

1. Obama isn't as progressive as some DUers hope n/t

[MNDemNY]

2. Really?

[NMDemDist2]

6. really

read his speeches, read his policies

he's a great guy, but he's no Bernie Saunders or Dennis K.

As far as I can see, he's a left of center guy, but still a centerist

[AllentownJake]

14. He's pragmatic

He knows what can be done and what can't be done in 4 years or 8 years. I'll probably be flamed for saying this but Dennis and Bernie as much as I love them would be too much of a shock to the system.

[MNDemNY]

19. De-fib a stopped heart? sounds like the cure.

[snake in the grass]

63. A stopped heart...

...isn't fibrillating.

[Two Americas]

51. which system?

We have two systems. If you are talking about the system of the people governing themselves, Sanders would be a relief not a shock.

If you are talking about the system of corporate corruption, bribed politicians and the rule pf the wealthy powerful few, there is no avoiding "shocking" that system, since the only alternative is tyranny and oppression.

we may have to "settle for" as a matter of practicality and tactical needs, but must we laud and praise and defend it?

[MNDemNY]

15. I think right -of-center.

And in my last reply, i forgot this...:sarcasm:

[KittyWampus]

18. I'd wager very few DU'ers are so uninformed they think Obama is "progressive"

[MNDemNY]

20. Some are.

[TZ]

46. Some of us actually paid atttention to his voting record in the Senate

Which actually ranks him in the top 5 most liberal voters in the Senate. So I guess that makes him "right of center":sarcasm:
For a political site, the ignorance of actual political fact here is astonishing at times.

[Two Americas]

53. depends

On culture war issues, yes he is "liberal." But on true political issues of power and economics, it remains to be seen.

[Runcible Spoon]

62. and some of us are aware that the vast majority of legislation is FAR from progressive

it's a piss poor way of gaging how progressive a politician is.

[graywarrior]

61. I never thought that at all

I got what I thought I voted for.

[walldude]

36. Compared to what we have been dealing with

if Obama were anymore left he'd be right. Plus how much of his campaign bluster was just bluster? Do you think a black man spouting far left policies would ever get elected. Give the guy a chance.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. But he's the most liberal senator!

:sarcasm:

[SoonerPride]

3. DID YOU LISTEN TO ANYTHING HE SAID FOR THE LAST 20 MONTHS??

Really?

[AllentownJake]

8. I expect alot of FISA moments on here over the next 4 years

Myself. I'm pretty sure I know who I voted for.

[Overseas]

41. That's what I'm thinking. He told us how he felt on Afghanistan.

He's someone who likes to get things done, so Rahm makes sense in that way. And Barack will be President; Rahm will work for him. He has Axelrod nearby to balance out Rahm.

I voted for Obama knowing he was more conservative than I am. But I knew he valued diplomacy and intelligence and would restore those tools for our national security.

And I knew he would be open to considering various approaches to national security challenges, including less visible, less destructive techniques.

Let's hope he develops a more targeted precise approach to destroying or negotiating with the enemies of our country.

Thank goodness he was against the invasion of Iraq from the beginning. He dared to read the facts and oppose the powerful lawless Bush-Cheney administration.

I am holding on to my hopes for improvements in our national security departments. The Bush lawlessness chased a lot of good people out of the State Department and CIA.

[Erin Elizabeth]

4. However, Obama is also no pushover who will just do whatever

Emanuel wants. Obama is the one in charge. And I don't think he's a hawk at ALL.

[democrattotheend]

5. He's talked about putting more troops in Afghanistan for 2 years

Why does that come as a surprise to you now?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. Sorry, you lost me at the word "Nader". I didn't read further. nt

[Erin Elizabeth]

9. Ack, I MISSED THAT.

Nevermind. Pffffft. Who the hell cares what Nader says?

[KittyWampus]

21. I almost stopped at the Counterpunch link. They HATE Democrats more than Republicans

[Hamlette]

10. if there is one thing we've learned about Obama, its that he lets people walk all over him

to push their own agenda.

or not

depending on whether you're paying attention.

I expect Obama will make some mistakes but he is no W and no Clinton. Cheney/Rahm will NOT be pushing him around.

Have you not been paying attention?

Yes, Rahm is too conservative for me. He's not the kind of liberal I want running things but Dennis and his UFOs would not be effective in that position.

Give Obama a chance. He's proved us naysayers wrong every time before.

[Occam Bandage]

11. Yet another person who apparently didn't listen to a word Obama said over the past two years.

Not his fault if you had no idea what you were signing up for.

[tyne]

17. Spot on

and absolutely.

[SunsetDreams]

12. Obama is peace, but he isn't no pushover.

Regarding missles in Poland, that information came from Poland. I prefer to hear it from his mouth.
Somehow it doesn't seem plausible that Obama would say anything like this, since he said there is only one President at a time.

With regard to Obama picking Emanuel, Obama has said repeatedly he doesn't want "yes men".
Obama will listen to all sides, but rest assured Obama will make ALL decisions.
Because Emanuel has made some decisions you don't agree with, you think automatically Obama would do the same thing?
Obama isn't Emanuel, I'm really tired of this guilt by association stuff.
It's the same thing the Right tried to do to Obama.

[mvd]

22. I agree

The missile thing would be disappointing, but I don't believe Obama would say that.

[crossroads]

32. Hear Hear... have a little patience... Obama is a smart man and no pushover!

[KittyWampus]

13. why do you waste your time reading Counterpunch?

[grantcart]

16. ah yes quoting Ralph Nader quoting Emanuel's father.

How relevant.


BTW what does your father think about this thread?

[ensho]

27. he is dead and was a Repug. thought I was a feminist nut case

nt

[Connie_Corleone]

23. First of all, Obama hasn't said a word about missiles in Poland.

That's 3rd party information that I don't believe anyway.

Second, anyone who is surprised that Obama wants more troops in Afghanistan hasn't been paying attention to what Obama has said the last two years.

Finally, you lost me at Counterpunch.com

[still_one]

24. who gives a damn what nader thinks. Nader, who called Obama an "uncle tom" thinks

The guy hasn't even taken office and the extreme left and right is jumping all over him

nader is a loser, and will go down in history as irrelevent

counterpunch is also a less than even handed publication whose primary agenda is NOT a two state solution, but the destruction of Israel

As far as the chief of staff is concerned, he will push legislation through that Obama wants. It is Obama that makes the decision, not his chief of staff.

Obama made it very clear during the campaign that he would have diversity in his administration. If you didn't realize that, you were not listening

[Two Americas]

54. every voice is important

Ideas are what matters, no matter the source. Dismissing a person's ideas because they are "irrelevant" or a "loser" is anti-intellectualism. I think we have had about enough of that over the last 8 years.

Expressing our opinions is our civic duty, and is essential to the functioning of a healthy democracy. "Jumping all over" our elected officials is good citizenship.

[still_one]

65. I am just expressing my opinion about nader. I have heard enough of nader and bush to know where

they stand

[rosesaylavee]

25. I think now would be a good time for everyone to read TEAM OF RIVALS

a book about Lincoln's choices for his cabinet and staff. Lincoln actually installed men who ran against him as President in his cabinet as he wanted to hear all sides of the issues. I think Obama is cut from the same cloth. He doesn't want to be surrounded by yes men/women. He wants to debate the issues with a wide range of people.

I think he will astound and confound a lot of people as we hear more of his appointments. I wouldn't doubt that he not only have some more DNCers but even a Republican or two.

[ensho]

29. what Lincoln did way back then has no relation to what is happening

today. Lincoln wasn't in charge of a Military Empire.

[rosesaylavee]

31. I do seem to recall that he did have some kind of military issue at the time.

[TheDoorbellRang]

49. Oh, snap!

:thumbsup:

[ensho]

66. the US at that time was not a world empire like it is today.

nt

[TheDoorbellRang]

47. You might want to bone up on your history

and take rosesaylavee's advice -- read "Team of Rivals." N.B. It's Obama's favorite book.

[msallied]

52. Are you fucking stupid?

The country was in the midst of a Civil War at the time! My god...

[RFKHumphreyObama]

26. Oh yes and Ralph Nader advanced the cause of peace so much didn't he

I mean putting Dumbya in the White House resulted in the peace and prosperity we are enjoying in Iraq, the humane and compassionate treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib and Guantanomo and America's international prestige being at its highest point ever:sarcasm:

Not to mention Emmanuel served on Clinton's staff during the historic detente between Israel and the PLO in the early-to-mid 1990s and coordinated the Oslo Accords signing ceremony

Ralphie should get a clue and stop helping Republicans steal elections

[liberalmuse]

28. Can we give the guy his first 100 days...

before we start jumping on him? I was originally a Kucinich supporter and am well aware of Obama's political leanings. I loved Clinton, but he was way more conservative in many of his policies than I would have preferred. Doesn't matter. He was one of our best Presidents.

I've watched Obama. He's made a couple decisions I have not liked while in the Senate, but I've also found that he has very good judgement most of the time. When he gets it right, he has impeccable judgement, as a matter-of-fact. I'm not telling people not to criticize him, but it would be nice if we had a lot more information on his Presidential governing style before we start. I'd like to continue to celebrate for just a couple weeks longer, especially after 8 years of having people in the WH so heinous that every day was a fresh new, unbearable hell.

And Nader? Fuck that arrogant ass. That being said, it would be interesting if he were in Obama's cabinet. We could use a little protection from some of the shit being imported from China.

[Exilednight]

30. The Chief of Staff's job is to push legislation through Congress .....

If Emanuel doesn't agree with Obama's policies, he probably wouldn't have taken the job.

I highly doubt that Rahm could talk Obama down from a position.

[AlCzervik]

33. Did you vote for Obama? Did you volunteer or donate?

[Genevieve]

60. I doubt that she did -- read all the threads th OP is starting:

Nothing, but extremely negative opinions and articles about Obama's choices.
Sounds like it's either a freeper or a disgruntled PUMA posting.

[LiberalAndProud]

34. Ralph Nader should put a sock in it and choke.

It's no secret that Nader doesn't like Obama. He's criticized Obama more since the election than he criticized Bush in eight years. He's an ass. Can we wait until Obama is inaugurated before we start skewering him? Folks on DU are glummer than my Republicon insurance agent.

jeebus

[RollWithIt]

35. Ralph Nader can go fuck himself for all I care... he called Obama an Uncle Tom....

ON ELECTION NIGHT! Fuck him and fuck anyone who still listens to his crap.

[cali]

37. I don't w0nder about you at all. YOU are a filth peddler, peddling lies.

Obama specifically denied the Poland/missile story. too bad for your ilk.

Emanuel is a good choice for CoS. He'll be instrumental in pushing through Obama's legislation- not creating it.

And counterpunch is about as good a shitrag as Worldnut daily.

[AlCzervik]

38. i don't either, i think it's pretty clear.

[Genevieve]

58. that too, and or to quote another poster:

" Sometimes a primary warrior never lets it go".

[cliffordu]

39. He must be a disappointement. HAS TO BE A DISAPPOINTMENT

CANNOT...BE...SATISFIED....OR...TRUST....HIS ....JUDGEMENT.....EVER....

[Nikki Stone1]

40. Rahm Emmanuel is bad news. I wish Obama could reconsider.

Unfortunately, I think this choice may have been forced on him.

[AlCzervik]

42. by who?

[cali]

44. yeah, why would he pick a close friend who has experience

on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue, and who has the skills to push through legislation on the Hill?

He should have pulled a Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton and chosen someone who didn't know how to get the job done.

[Ozma]

43. Ralph, I think you let the engine running in your...

1964 Chevrolet Corvair

Maybe you ought to turn your engine off now, you created enough political pollution in the year 2000 to render thousands of Americans dead under George W Bush, because you stole the chance for Gore to win, with your tens of thousands of bull-headed voters.

If Ralph Nader comes on my television ever again, I swear I will mute the sound and change the channel ASAP.

Ralph Nader knows NOTHING when it comes to American politics.

[JNelson6563]

45. When he worked for Clinton

he pushed Clinton's initiatives. When he chaired the DCCC he did his own thing (cause he could). I marvel that so many DUers think Obama's gonna just let this guy have free reign.

Rahm is a bulldog and gets things done, knows the game and puts up with no crap. That's exactly who I'd want at my side and covering my back too.

So many neophytes here at DU, when did this tragedy occur?

Julie

[TexanDem]

48. whether Nader says it abt Emanuel or not -- all this is true. >>

Just read up on him. There was a roast of Emanuel replayed late last night on C-Span, and the various speakers mentioned a lot of this stuff. Perhaps C-Span has it on their webpage if you care to listen. The only consoluation I have is that he is not a policymaker, but he is Obama's good friend. Granted, Obama has let us know he strongly supports Israel and he will beef up the war in Afganistan. My thoughts now are this is far too early in the game to draw conclusions. We have to give him a chance. Let's get him in the White House first. :)

[goletian]

55. obamas not a pacifist, hes only against dumb wars.

[wyldwolf]

56. When Rahm Emanuel does a push-up, he's not lifting himself up.

He's pushing the earth down.

There is no CTRL button on his computer, because Rahm Emanuel is always in control.

Rahm Emanuel doesn't read books. He stares them down until he gets the information he needs from them.

[creeksneakers2]

57. Obama ought to have 100% freedom to choose his own

inner circle. He has to have the people he thinks he can work with. How else can Obama do anything?

Nobody is far left enough for the far left. Not even Obama. Nothing constructive ever comes from Nader people.

[sub.theory]

59. You lost me at quoting Ralph Nader

I don't trust a thing Nader has to say. Obama has my trust.

[progressivebydesign]

64. you mean Ralph Nader who actually called Obama an "Uncle Tom!" on national TV tues. night?

That guy? Geez.. if you're getting your views from that racist asshole, then no one here can set you straight.

[dailykoff]

67. This really makes me worry about Iran.

I was hoping we could put that inane saber-rattling to rest but it looks like we're going to have to push back hard against yet another Iraq-style genocidal fiasco, and I seriously doubt whether it will do any good. If Obama was listening, he wouldn't have appointed Rahm Rahm Rahm Iran.

k/r

[curse of greyface]

68. You know some Progressive Democrats support the Afghan war..

I happen to be one of them.