I think there are a lot of DUers that just don't get what Obama is all about

[Perky]

I've been watching all these posts about center-right center-left, Pelosi, Republicans in the cabinet. etc.

There seems to be a large group of DUers who are itching more for a fight than they are for actually governing. They seem to want, although they can't seem to define it themselves, a very liberal, (oops sorry) a very progressive agenda. I am not sure if it is just to stick it to the GOP as retribution or if it just wanting the pendulum to swing the other direction as far as it can./


In either case, I don't think they really "get" the President-elect, or the new politics.

One of the main reasons, Obama won the middle is the overreaching by the GOP. Some Dems here would seem to want to pull the nation to the same space on the left,


I doubt most of those who feel that way have read "Audacity" or really listened to what Obama is saying.

"We need a new politics, that does not pit Blue against Red". He is saying that the old partisan poetics are destructive, and he certainly suggests that both sides share some of the blame.

Obama want to lead a realigned country. One that trust leadership again. one that is united in a call for competence, and pragmatism and yes compromise.


Don't get me wrong, he is a Democrat, Bu the Torch has been passed to a post-partisian president and we need to get used to the fact that to build a sustainable coalition and to protect the vital interests of the country on any number of fronts , we are going to have to be cross-partisan,


He does this right, it might not be the party you like, but we will be a 60% party.

The coming debate here on DU is going to be a battle for the soul of the party. Those who think that the soul is represented by Teddy Kennedy need to understand the significance of what Teddy said in his endorsement, What Ethel said at Coretta's funeral.

The torch has been passed to a new generation and a new way of governing.

[Ian David]

1. I'll feel unified if we all survive to January 20th

UNITY NOW!!

[cliffordu]

58. Yeah, there is that.....

good luck to us all....

[tekisui]

2. The change that he brings is the tone and method to governing.

He will be a leader and build strong coalitions. His policies were never that different from Hillarys, he just has a new and improved WAY to do it.

Open, transparent, very intentional.

[Snotcicles]

3. He is a Practical Liberal, and that is exactly what the country needs right now.nt

[Eurobabe]

4. Did you really ever think DU would stop the circular firing squads?

:rofl: :rofl:

Part of the reason that I am not spending so much time on here.

My guys won, I'm thrilled. Now let's see what they do. Guess that's not good enough for some people. :shrug:

[Wapsie B]

5. The idealist in me wishes for a flaming liberal in the White House.

The pragmatist in me knows that a true Liberal wouldn't be allowed anywhere near the power of the Presidency; certainly not yet anyway.

[Overseas]

40. The pragmatist in me knows that citizens need to push for what they want.

If we want policies more liberal than those espoused by our president then we need to fight for them. That is a time honored tradition.

By many of us standing together to push for very generous universal national health insurance for example, we can show the country that Obama has support for the most progressive stance.

No need to back pedal and talk conservatively.

THe country voted for progressive values in terms of withdrawal from Iraq, affordable national health insurance, tax cuts for the middle class, fast-tracking alternative energy development and a more diplomatic, intelligence-based, nimble approach to national security.

If others try to push him to be conservative and we give him a big push to the liberal perspective, that's great. That's what citizens do.

[EV_Ares]

6. Thank you Perky, you are absolutely right about some of those on this board. The new President

needs to simply follow his priorities and agenda and work toward a unification of the country. If this is done smartly which is how he does things, the others will follow just from the positive results of his policies. That said, I think however, those such as Lieberman need to be shown the door to be able to work with his friends, not to be a hindrance to the party and goals we are trying to achieve.

[stray cat]

7. I suspect many on DU will be unhappy with Obama -

However, Like you I want a new way of governing.

[always_saturday]

8. I think there are a lot of DUers who just don't understand that they can't tell the rest of us

what we should think.

[Danger Mouse]

9. Yes, I imagine that some of Obama's policies will bring about a torrent of hand-wringing.

We liberals, we are very emotional creatures.

[Strelnikov_]

10. Agreed. Obama understands that "Politics is the art of the possible" n/t

[mmonk]

11. You misread many of us.

[unblock]

12. correct. this was not a left vs. right election; it was a sane vs. insane election

[Fire1]

54. True dat!

[1Hippiechick]

13. GREAT post, imo. He wants our states to become UNITED again - President of ALL people - negotiation

will be critical, imo.

But, hey! Look at how he motivated his campaigners! He is EXACTLY the person our contry needs RIGHT NOW, imo.

I don't see all the posters on here that I saw pre-Primary. Some just couldn't get past the fact that his campaign HAD to change after the primary. He mobilized the Dem base, but he had to work on uniting the country - dem, repub, and independent alike. And, he will have to continue.

[frickaline]

14. Very well said.

This isn't about retribution -- for once.

[THUNDER HANDS]

15. it'll take two terms to move the country to the left

his first term should be spent fixing what Bush messed up, then he can spend the second term improving on that, and the country will be moved to the left by virtue of his success.

Success is what matters though. If you're an ineffective president, you won't be moving anyone into your corner, and Obama needs to come out of the gate with a series of policies that pass congress and improve things in this country, then he'll basically be able to do whatever he wants. Eight years later, the country will have shifted far to the left without a majority of people ever realizing it.

[Smarmie Doofus]

16. You seem to think this is why he was elected:

>>>>"We need a new politics, that does not pit Blue against Red". He is saying that the old partisan poetics are destructive, and he certainly suggests that both sides share some of the blame.

Obama want to lead a realigned country. One that trust leadership again. one that is united in a call for competence, and pragmatism and yes compromise.>>>>


That's debatable. The dramatic failure of conservative republican policies at home and abroad, and an explicit repudiation of same by the general public ( or 52% of it) might have had more to do with it.

Re. partisan politics: History indicates that's a bit of a pipe dream. We have partisan politics because our system is based on political parties. Amazing though it may seem, Obama is not the first president who sought to lead from a position above partisan politics. It may not be so "pragmatic" to think he can succeed where others have failed.

For one thing, the other side ( yes, there IS another side) will not allow it. It needs a reason to exist.


We shall see.

[TacticalPeek]

17. If it's about post-D, it's about post-DU fer sure.

The Merkin people have spoken. Now watch this drive.

:shrug:

[nevergiveup]

18. You are so correct

and I suspect that a great majority here at DU not only "get it" they also "want it". Our government is in a terrible shambles and Obama is just what the doctor ordered. It is going to be tough for a while but everything in the end will be fine.

[AwakeAtLast]

19. If he is able to accomplish all of that, what a country we will be!

I have every reason to believe he will, too!

:hi:

[Celebration]

20. Thanks for the eloquent post

If we are always "reactive" to what the Republicans do, we are not moving forward. To move forward, we cannot mirror the "my way or the highway." We have to march forward, and ignore the distractions.

But I do hope he prosecutes the wrong doers. I think he will, at least if it falls in his lap.

[Demi_Babe]

21. I agree with you on many points...Obama is a new kind of leader...one that I persoanlly have been

waiting for.

[starroute]

22. I half agree and half disagree

On one level, I'd be happy with a moderately liberal Obama administration that creates spaces within which more progressive experiments could be carried out on the state or local level.

I'd be happy if enough steps are taken towards universal health insurance, revival of the unions, etc. that people aren't inhibited from protesting, making demands, or taking risks for fear of losing their jobs.

But on another level, the fundamental issues of our time have to do with the corporations, the power of the military-industrial complex, and the way in which American foreign policy is run for the benefit of corporate profits and military domination to the exclusion of democratic values and the good of the planet. And in those areas, even a moderately liberal administration isn't likely to challenge the status quo profoundly enough to make any real changes.

I was 13 when John Kennedy was elected in 1960, and I was naive enough to think those things would change in his administration. By 1962, I knew they wouldn't, and it was the greatest disillusionment of my life -- but I adapted to it by lowering my expectations. I didn't count on or get anything better in that area from Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton, and I don't count on it from Barack Obama either.

And yet -- those are the fundamental issues that have to be dealt with. And they have to be dealt with now. We can no longer afford the toll that the corporate thirst for environmentally-unsustainable profits and US demands for global hegemony are taking on our planet and its people.

But if an Obama presidency cannot take on these problems because it is ultimately a part of the system -- then who will do it? Or if, at best, an Obama presidency combined with the multiple ongoing crises we face will offer us just enough space and enough resources to do it ourselves, then how do we take advantage of the opportunity?

What are our tools, where our our allies, and how do we frame our message so that it appears not merely legitimate, but compelling? That's the real question, and it would be better for us to pursue it now, in a spirit of hope, rather than a year from now in a spirit of disillusionment.

[Armstead]

25. Bingo

I was only in 6th grade when Kennedy was elected, so I didn;t have any expectations.

But I have had the same feeling since the 70's when Carter began to move the Democrats more to the right in economic terms, and especially during the 90's, when the Corporate Party continued unabated while the seeds were sown for the problems we are now seeing.

[Joe Chi Minh]

28. Apparently, he plans to take the troops out of Iraq and relinquish the

permanent bases within a year or two. A brigade or two a month. That is a major move.

To me, it indicates that he will do what he thinks is right for the country. Period. He will not baulk at repudiating a major plank of the Republicans's policies (and DLC), or some of the most coveted projects of liberals, if he doesn't feel they're in the best interests of the people, as a whole.

[Laelth]

47. That's extremely important and should not be overlooked.

Honestly, I am fine with Obama's DLC cabinet pick. Putting a DLC member in the executive branch gets that same DLC member out of Congress and gives Obama the power to fire him at will. If we are lucky, the corporatist Democrats will do Obama's bidding and move to the left. If they don't, Obama can fire them, and that will send a strong message to corporatist Democrats that ours is a party of the people, and not of the corporations.

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[shireen]

31. "the corporations, the power of the military-industrial complex"

EXCELLENT POINT!

The roots of the problem need to be dug up. Snapping off the tops will not eradicate them. They've had decades to become entrenched in our country's economy. Obama, if he chooses to go after them, has only 8 years. But he has to try to lay the groundwork so future leaders can continue to dismantle that insidious network.

[Armstead]

23. We don''t want another lost opportunity -- or sell out -- like the 90's

I support Obama's efforts to bring greater unity to the country, and to getting things done. I also like Apple Pie and I support Motherhood.

Having said that, many of us worry about is that Obama is going to squander the opportunity undo the damage of Reaganism and the whole Market Uber Alles pro-corporate oligarchy that has had the country in its' grip since the 1970's.

Despite all of his gifts and good intentions, Bill Clinton and the DLC removed the gonads of the liberal opposition -- or the liberal balance -- during the 90's.

Instead of being a counterbalance to the Right Wing takeover, the Clinton/DLC Democrats jumped on that bus, with deregulation and abandonment of basic social goals like healthcare. They pushed the Corporate Globalization agenda.

The only reason W was able to accomplish so much -- from a GOP CONservative perspective -- and do so much damage is because the Clinton/DLC Democrats handed him a country that had all of the levers in place. And then, aftere 2000, the Democrats failed to be an effective opposition party.

For example, the recent meltdown on Wall St. is a direct outcome of the financial deregulation that the Clintonistas helped to push through.

The current rotten employment situation is partially due to the embrace of Corporate Globalization that Clinton championed.

Back to the present, if Obama simply turns to these default approaches, the country wilol continue to be hollowed out and taken over by the Fat Cats. We may all feel better on the surface, but we'll still all be getting the shaft if we keep letting the same underlying trends continue towards concentration of wealth and power.

I don't want us to blow it again. Obama has a great opportunity to move the country back to an appropriate BALANCE. But balance is not the same as surrender.

[TacticalPeek]

27. There it is.

And time's a-wastin' for the Republic.

[Trajan]

24. I expect that some progressive policies will be implemented ....

I expect him to regulate the marketplace ....

I expect the congress to work with him ....

We can occupy the center, AND the left ....

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. I'm going to love to see how he's going to do all those things,

and still measure up to the "Change," in his policies.

[Warren Stupidity]

29. I have no idea what that means in terms of policy.

I'll support an administration that acts on these issues:

Universal Health Care: even if that means a mandate system.

Iraq: we leave on a fixed date sometime in the not too distant future.

Energy and the environment: energy independence within a sustainable framework is the goal, and this administration must take concrete steps to get there including internal infrastructure investment and global cooperation.

Education: the NCLB crap has to be seriously reformed or completely scrapped and we need comprehensive reform of our higher education funding system.

Economy: the chicago gang and their neoliberal deregulate everything idiocy is finished. This administration must start the process of re-regulating the financial system. That is also going to require global cooperation.

Civil rights: prop 8 is bullshit. We need moral leadership on this issue from Washington.

America's role in the world: the glorious PNAC is over. It lasted ten years. It was a horrible failure that has bankrupted us financially spiritually and militarily. Time for us to rejoin the community of nations.

I could go on.

[shireen]

30. i still want to see Bush & Cheney IMPEACHED

Such a move could cause major problems for Obama's vision of a "new politics." However, all criminals from the Bush administration must be held accountable. They should be exposed, put on trial, and face the consequences of their actions.

Some are going to say that this country has major problems that will take up the full attention of the Congress. Sadly, that may be true. Those clever crooks ... they created such a big mess, we're going to be too busy cleaning up after them to go after them.

I hope our leaders understand how important it is to hold these people accountable, and find a way to do it.

[Perky]

41. Umm well you have about 70 days.

Because you can't impeach a former president. ANd Obama is not going to touch it,

[shireen]

45. i think it's possible

according to http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/37069
"The president can be impeached and convicted even after leaving office."

Obama won't be in Congress so he does not have to touch it. Congress can act on its own.

If he is impeached, it would encourage civil suits to be filed against him and other thugs by many people. They'll be swamped in lawsuits for the rest of their miserable lives.

[Waiting For Everyman]

32. Even Doris Goodwin just said on Meet the Press, that he

should go Progressive in a big way. Like FDR. Obama is most of all, practical. That's what is practical. That's what will work. I think the conservative Dems are assuming too much.

[Honeycombe8]

34. That's not what I heard her say. She (and most of the others) said he could go big, in a big way...

pushing his agenda items all at once, like FDR did. She made no judgment call about the nature of his agenda items, whether they are centrist or far left or whatever. That's what I heard.

I also don't think she said he "should" or "should not" do one thing or another. She isn't in the business of advising Presidents; she reports on them. So she was likening Obama to FDR, and saying that if he wanted to be like FDR, he "could" do that.

[TexasObserver]

33. The recurring theme of Obama in his books: We've got to stop this insane partisanship.

Obama has liberal ideals, without question. He's more liberal than he runs, but he's a pragmatist who doesn't think vilifying the opposition is helpful to problem resolution.

He's going to lead from the center, because that's where he can get consensus. He's not going to want to be signing into law bills passed on party line votes.

[Fire1]

55. Granted. But being a pragmatist doesn't mean being naive.

He doesn't have to 'vilify' anybody to be cautious and he can still 'lead from the center.' All opposition is not far right and so far he's made good appointments, imo.

[Honeycombe8]

35. I get it. And I got it during the campaign. I know that the next time Repubs win the WH, they will

they will not be grateful for the nonpartisanship and the inclusiveness they had during the Obama administration. Quite the opposite, they will go back to being the mean, hateful people who exclude anyone who doesn't totally agree with them.

Still...I think Obama is right, that in order to get certain things done, his administration must be inclusive and must listen to those who have different ideas. (The immature part of me wants to totally exclude the Republicans...who, after all, painted Obama as a Muslim terrorist and socialist who has a white-hating black activist wife who isn't proud of her country.)

But .... that's not the best way to go, I guess. Not if I want alternative energy and healthcare reform.

[Two Americas]

36. bait and switch

What you are saying may well be true, but we did not hear this before the election. I do not think that what you are describing is what the people voted for, either.

Before the election it was the right wingers attacking the Left. Now suddenly it is Democrats. Remarkable thing.

[Perky]

37. Q-Tips are an amazing invention. n/t

[onenote]

38. kicked and recommended

well put.

[book_worm]

39. I've actually been staying away from DU a lot since the election since from the day after it

all the attacks began it seemed more like Free Republic than Democratic Underground. Some people here aren't giving Obama a chance. And on close inspection a lot of them are former Hillary supporters.

[Nathancummings]

42. Obama brings the pragmatic centrism we need

as a nation in these difficult times.

[rug]

46. If Nathancummings is for it, I'm against it.

[Skittles]

43. kissing repuke ass is what has America where it is today

Obama just needs to do what is right and what is right is MOSTLY LEFT

[Martin Eden]

44. I think you misjudge the motives of many DUers

I refer to this paragraph in your post:

There seems to be a large group of DUers who are itching more for a fight than they are for actually governing. They seem to want, although they can't seem to define it themselves, a very liberal, (oops sorry) a very progressive agenda. I am not sure if it is just to stick it to the GOP as retribution or if it just wanting the pendulum to swing the other direction as far as it can.

Sure, there are elements of pure partisanship and the desire for sticking it to those who have trashed our country, but I think the vast majority of DUers at their core are motivated by the desire to turn things around and implement the CHANGE that our country so desperately needs.

The CHANGE at the core of Obama's campaign was not just about a new spirit of cooperation and a rejection of divisive politics. That kind of change may be necessary, but it is ultimately a means to an end -- to bring about the changes that will promote economic justice, civil rights, a healthy environment, and world peace.

Having said all that, I am essentially in agreement with your post. I believe President Obama will work towards our shared goals and that he understands that making progress will require bipartisanship and compromise. He is a realist and a pragmatist, and will undoubtedly catch a lot of flack from many on the left when he does not move quickly or forcefully enough to implement everything on our agenda.

I share your concern that President Obama may lose the support of many who helped to elect him, and I see the need for articulating these concerns early on. Those would-be detractors need to be reminded how important it is for this new Democratic administration to succeed. There will be plenty of attacks from the right; attacks from the left may only serve to make the attainment of our shared goals more difficult.

[Dr Fate]

48. It's true to a degree- some DEMS need further catharsis.

I agree with you that it is now the job of DEMS to govern, not to fight where a fight is not needed...

I wouldnt be against a few symbolic but necessary acts- like punishing & roping in Lieberman.

Either way, once people see the new Administration getting things done, maybe this will quiet down...

[mvd]

49. Well first, there is no equivalent space on the left..

except for socialism with communistic elements. The socialists I see at DU would be far better than Bush ever was. I advocate for a higher degree of socialism. I do understand, though, what Obama is about. I'm sure there will be things I'm not happy with, but once Obama listens to all, I'm pretty sure many of his policies will lean liberal. I know that acting like Kucinich right away wouldn't be good for Obama.

[AtomicKitten]

50. Obama isn't moving left or right --- he's moving forward.

[Clio the Leo]

61. Line of the night! NT

[CANDO]

51. I say bullshit.......

Was the New Deal brought about from some namby-pamby center of the political world? You don't get anything done in this country from the center. The center is where the status-quo is. Status-quo from here is more of the same. More of the same is exactly what 65 million people just voted AGAINST! We've just gone through at least 28 years of conservative economic policies and it has decimated the middle class and has de-industrialized this country. Do you suppose we do some sort of group hug from the center and all will be reversed? Hell no! To the left we must go, just to get back to the center.

[Perky]

53. Again Q-tips are very useful

[CANDO]

56. Is "Q-tips" some sort of secret code?

Doesn't make any sense. Again, this is not a time for a koombayah group hug. Have you ever listened to or read FDR's speeches railing against "the economic royalists"? Because we must go left economically does not mean we do it in the same fashion as the hard right conservatives have operated. They did it through fear and intimidation. The left will do it through leadership and explanation, but it must be done. You may regard that as partisan, but so be it. The center gets nothing done because the center stands for nothing and is unwilling to fight for a cause. I think you may not understand that the political spectrum has been pushed so far to the right that today's moderate Democrats are to the right of Eisenhower or even Nixon Republicans.

[NashVegas]

52. It's a Shame No One Made the Effort to Correct All Those Threads In Primary Season

That claimed that Obama would bring liberal, progressive politics back to the White House, while they simultaneously trashed other candidates and their supporters.

Seems to me the corporate, status quo wing used them, here and on KoS, kind of the way Republicans used Christian conservatives.

The new Reagan, indeed. Trust me, I got exactly what Obama was about when he started throwing that shit around.

The explosion over Krugman's comments indicate that struggle is lost. We are going to be treated to a nice huge vat of "shut the fuck up" Obamism.

I just hope that the people now outraged over Krugman telling the truth, will remember this moment the next time that Obama tells the blogosphere to shut the fuck up, which he has done several times. He must, because as a representative plutocrat, he not only must create a loud noisy ball of people, he must have control over them, and will crush anyone who attempts to swim in that environment and direct it. He has promised his backers control over that ball, and anyone who moves it in another direction will be seen as a threat. He's already done this, and therefore, I am sure he will do it again.

http://agonist.org/node/49778/

[mhatrw]

57. So Obama is the Third Way's New Messiah?

Thanks, but no thanks.

[Rowdyboy]

59. I don't think Barack is on the same page as the Dems wanting retribution....

Joe Lieberman is the most disgusting peice of whaleshit I know of but sadly I think he'll ask Harry Reid to not punish Leiberman-just to avoid a partisan fight. Do I like it? Hell no. Will I suck it up if Reid caves? Probably. What really matters is what Barack can do to salvage whats left of the country.

[kid a]

60. k & r

[ibegurpard]

62. Depends

I'm all for pragmatism and compromise. But NO MORE legislation that ONLY benefits CEOs and shareholders. NO MORE deregulation. A lot of the bullshit we are dealing with now is a result of the deregulation that happened under the last Democratic president's watch. I'm for compromise that benefits the ENTIRE economy and CONSUMERS.

[democracy1st]

63. K & R