Do you think this country will ever elect an openly gay/lesbian president

[npk]

Another thread got me thinking about things this country may never come to do. Also I was watching a movie preview of an upcoming film title "Milk" which is a biographical account of Harvey Milk who became the first openly gay man to be elected to public office in the state of California. In the end Harvey Milk was assassinated by another city official in San Francisco Dan White. It's hard for me to imagine that since Milks assassination in 1978 we, as a people and a country, haven't really come all that far. Gay and Lesbian rights are still under assault as Prop 8 in California clearly demonstrates. Though my intention is not rehash the vote on Prop 8 as there is already plenty of discussion on that matter on this board. I do wonder if this country will ever reach a point when someone's sexual orientation (for lack of a better word), which is something that is absolutely no threat to anyone, and is further a private matter that should not be the basis of discussion or ridicule by anyone, will not be the use of hatred and inflammatory nonsense that recent events have so dramatically demonstrated so transparently.

I wonder if, in my lifetime, I will have the opportunity to see a openly gay or lesbian person run for president, or for the matter of this discussion, any high office, without that persons sexual orientation being the center issue. I wonder if this country will ever be ready to truly realize the promise and potential of our founding principles of equality and freedom which people fought and bled for in the first place.

I have gotten very tired and angry with people using the word "lifestyle choice" to define people that are gay and lesbian. It is NOT for the last FUCKING time a lifestyle choice to be gay. Nobody wakes up one day and says, "I would like try a gay lifestyle for a change." What part of this concept is so difficult for bigots with their sectarianism views to understand.

[kid a]

1. yes we can!

[LynnTheDem]

2. Yeppers.

What I'm REALLY looking forward to is the day when we won't give a flyin' what anyone's personal (consenting adults) sex life is.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

3. When it becomes a constitutional amendment that gays may marry, then we will...

Of course it'd be safer if we first rounded up all KKKers, Neo-Nazis, Neo-Cons, right wing nutjobs, and Bible banging psychopaths, encarcerated them all in open cell prisons, and fed them copious amounts of Viagra in their food.

[MercutioATC]

4. Yeah, right....we'll do that about the time we elect a black Presid....

...erm...nevermind...

[kid a]

5. only if they're married, though (for the family values bloc)

[DrToast]

6. Sure, why not.

Maybe not soon, but eventually I don't see why not.

[MadBadger]

7. Id give it 60 years

[Skittles]

8. we haven't even elected a woman yet

and we are over half the populaton so no, I doubt we will see it in our lifetime

[jobycom]

15. I think that may be a harder hurdle to clear

People seem able to recognize racism and homophobia in others more easily than the sexist assumptions and generalizations that they themselves have, judging by the attitudes towards Clinton and Palin, even here at DU. If people don't see it, they can't fight it.

[Skittles]

19. damn straight

[marimour]

67. Hillary didnt lose b/c she was a woman. I'm sure there will another woman candidate in the future.

[jobycom]

71. If I had a few months, maybe

I could show you that you just proved exactly what I was saying.

[NotThisTime]

31. Nor an atheist or agnostic....

[Skittles]

32. you don't know that for sure

:D

[merh]

52. Not to start anything, but I am curious.

If Palin is on the presidential ballot in 2016, and is the only woman contender, will you vote for her and/or campaign for her because she is a woman? Is the gender factor that important?

[marimour]

68. NOPE.

I would rather have 2 more lily white, old, male presidents then have THAT woman be the 1st.

[merh]

77. I agree with you

btw, welcome to DU :hi:

[Skittles]

85. that is onef fucking insulting question

I'm a woman, I am not fucking STUPID

[thewiseguy]

9. Not in our lifetime

[Sebastian Doyle]

10. Rachel Maddow 2016!

Why the Hell not?

[Lex]

14. For reals.

She's got my vote.

[kid a]

18. Lets start with Schweitzer/Maddow 2016 first.

[Zomby Woof]

92. She would run a negative campaign

Not a personal attacks campaign, but rather a "OH NO! I AM GOING TO LOSE - I AM DOOMED!" campaign. :evilgrin:

[The Hope Mobile]

95. She's got the same degree as Palin . . . that's qualification enough.

:sarcasm:

[jobycom]

11. Yes.

There has been progress, it's just hard to see it on a political board. We're in the 70s stage of the movement, I think. Maybe even late 70s, when people are just coming to grips with the fact that their ideas may be wrong. They put gay men on television now in positive--if ridiculously stereotypical--roles, and people are getting used to the idea, and changing their minds. And as with Civil Rights, the younger generations are growing up used to it. Sure, there's bigotry in high schools, but there's a lot more acceptance in that generation than in older generations.

Maybe it will plod along and take a generation to change, or maybe society, under the guidance of a more progressive president and Congress, and hopefully soon a Supreme Court, will take a giant leap. But it will happen. A generation or less, I think.

[ecstatic]

12. You just never know. Many of us assumed we'd have the first female president

elect this year. Then Obama came out of nowhere and surprised us all by becoming the first black president. You just never know how things will turn out.

[democrattotheend]

13. Yes, but not anytime soon, unfortunately

But I do have hope, I just think it will take time. I'm 24 and most people my age, even the Republicans I know, grew up knowing people who were openly gay and have relatively progressive attitudes. Sophomore year, I lived with a Republican who initially was kind of uncomfortable with gays and not in favor of gay marriage, but then she became good friends with a guy on our floor who was gay and I heard her say one time that she had changed her views after getting to know someone who was openly gay. So I have hope that when people my age start taking the reigns of power things will change.

To be honest, the idea of an openly gay president seems unthinkable now, but I'm sure the idea of an African American president seemed unthinkable just 40 years ago. So keep the faith, and I know that one day things will change with regard to the way we view gays in this country.

[napi21]

16. Never in my lifetime!

[Lucy Goosey]

46. That was my first thought, too, but...

my Dad thought that he would never live to see a Black (or other non-white) president, and he's alive and well at 67. I'm 33, maybe I will live to see a GLBT president, or an atheist, or a non-christian. I'm already pretty much assuming that I'll see a woman - NOT PALIN.

[silverojo]

17. I think a woman AND a gay/lesbian will become president

Justice always triumphs over injustice, eventually.

And you're right...who the hell would "choose" a lifestyle that causes you to be rejected by society? I guess the Fundies chose to be straight, too, huh?

Fucking imbeciles. :mad:

[marimour]

69. I think there will be... but

I think it will be a lesbian, not a male. A gay woman is more comfortable to the general public than a gay man. She will also have to be damn near perfect like obama. Meaning she will have to be very attractive, and more intelligent than most of her opponents.

[Borgnine]

20. Of course.

We all learned this last week that bigotry and prejudice have an expiration date. Liberal ideals always win out in the end, and I'd wager that we may not have to wait as long as some people are saying.

[Genevieve]

21. Yes!

[Danger Mouse]

22. Let's see a woman in the white house first.

[NYC_SKP]

25. Rachel's a woman....

We can haz bofe at once?

[Danger Mouse]

27. It would be nice...

but I'm not sure if it'll happen for another generation at least.
Homophobia is still really popular in this country, sadly.

[Tiggeroshii]

23. In a couple more decades.

We're still struggling to get over so much homophobia that is hindering such a feat.

[glowing]

24. Yes, I'm 30. My parents took a bit of work to understand that it wasn't a "choice", now they don't

care.. their 50is.. I'm 29, I have no care about who anyone sleeps with or loves or whatever.. I'd say in 20yrs, it won't matter and these stupid ammendments against marriage will be history.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

26. Who is going to vote for this openly gay President?

Republicans? No.
Blacks? No.
Hispanics? No.


Moreover, I highly doubt you will see Obama try to overturn the "don't ask don't tell policy" in the military. Less he wants to waste his first term fighting the culture wars.

When the ultra liberal french elect an openly gay President then I might reconsider what I just wrote.

[npk]

28. That is the kind of narrow mind set that I am talking about.

But thanks for helping prove my point that this country really hasn't progressed as much as people would like to think.

[donheld]

29. We should have elected a black lesbian

and got this whole thing fixed. :D

[boppers]

30. Is she differently abled?

How about from a community college, not some Ivy League school?

We got a lot of barriers ahead of us.

[political_Dem]

33. I would hope so. We've made the first step by electing Obama.

Now it's time for the people to fight for the door to remain open. I truly think that this election really had awakened the consciousness of the people. We were given a glimpse of our future. The power has been put back into our hands, enough to really find leadership that will be truly representative of the people regardless of color, sexual orientation, or gender. Things are looking up to me. We won't be silenced anymore.

[JI7]

34. if the person they run against is an Atheist

i'm speaking of the near future.

[No Elephants]

35. Yes, we can. Question. Were men who were/are openly gay elected or re-eleted to Congress before

women were? (Not claiming that, just asking a question.)

[Hekate]

36. Why not? We just elected a black man, and almost nominated a woman.

Eventually most of this country will grow up -- at least those parts of it that call it a nation or country, and not "the homeland," if you get my drift.

Sooner or later.

Hekate

[joshcryer]

37. No. It will never happen. Ever.

There won't be a "USA" when that "time" comes.

[enigmatic]

38. Yes n/t

[LatteLibertine]

39. I wouldn't mind that at all

and I'd like to see an openly agnostic or atheistic person elected myself. Or hell give me two for one, a gay agnostic. I'd vote for them if we matched well on the issues.

[No Elephants]

40. OMG. The first woman elected to Congress seems to have been a very thinly closeted

gay woman. http://womenshistory.about.com/od/congress/a/jeanette_rankin.htm And she lost her seat because of her pacificism, not her orientation.

As far as a gay who is openly gay, it will happen, but the candidate will have to be as spectacular as Obama and the campaign as brilliantly run as the Obama campaign. He or she will have to write off the evangelicals, but will also have to be a churchgoer. And will have to focus on bringing home the Greens and registering new voters. And be a brilliant Governor.

That is my prediction and belief.

[marimour]

70. totally agree. they wil have to be perfect.

[MrSlayer]

41. Ever? Yes. Soon? No.

I may see it in my lifetime. At 38 I'm still young, I've got at least another 60 or 70 years left. Rest assured it will eventually happen.

[No Elephants]

42. Why not? That is exactly what people said of Obama right until he got elected--the

country is not ready. If the candidate is as extraordinary as Obama, and the campaign as extraordinarily run as Obama's campaign, why can't an openly gay person have the "audacity" to hope as well? With Obama, the Pubs has some really untrustworthy candidates and the economic collapse helped, as did 8 years of Bush. We need more openly gay Chisholms, Jacksons and Sharptons to run, though. Those who are ready to wage a campaign, knowing full well they will fail, in order to "vaccinate" voters. Where are they?

[youthere]

43. Yes. But probably not in my lifetime.

[frickaline]

44. Not in my lifetime, I don't think

Kids today use words like "gay" almost as commonly as "the", and not in a good way. They have trained themselves and are training each other to disrespect homosexuals. I would think that we would need to see a shift in the vocabulary of children before we could expect to see real change in our society. There is an educational component that is severely lacking.

[ej510]

45. We'll all be dead before it happens, but it will happen.

[frickaline]

47. yes, probably.

I think we would need to see an end to extremist/hateful religions first, but someday ...

[ellie]

48. Yes we can and we will

[dkofos]

49. Not until we get one on TV first.

[bunkerbuster1]

50. I'd be kind of shocked if we didn't, actually.

If only because so many gays and lesbians have been forced by circumstance to become politically astute.

I'm 50, so I think I've got at least another six-eight election cycles in front of me. That's plenty of time for generational turnover.

[Hepburn]

51. I am straight and many, many years ago, a gay friend...

...put all the "choice BS" in perspective for me when he said to me: "So, when did you decided to be straight?"

I had raised the totally uninformed issue about whether or not being gay was a choice. That question from my friend sure made me thoroughly understand that for him being gay was as natural as it was for me to be straight. I have never had to ponder again from that time as to whether being gay was a choice.

:hi:

And, I would always hope that this nation elects the best person for the job...regardless of gender, sexual orientation, color, ethnicity, etc!

[kevinds13]

53. Its going to be awhile,

but yes. I think we can.

[NorthCarolina]

54. Maybe, but I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime

You can't elect a foreign born to the White House, so how could you elect a person who doesn't even have access to the Full Bundle of Constitutional Rights?

[WeDidIt]

55. We're probably 40 years away from that

Given how long it took between the civil rights movement and Barack Obama.

[merh]

58. 40 years is about right

but it could be a faster evolution with the immediacy of the internet.

First AA mayor of a large city was elected in 1967, it takes time to open folks minds.

[WeDidIt]

61. It's sad

but true.

[merh]

56. Baby steps -

Small Oregon city elects transgender mayor

1 day ago

SILVERTON, Ore. (AP) — Plenty of politicians reinvent themselves, but few do it quite like Mayor-elect Stu Rasmussen.

Rasmussen has been a fixture in Silverton politics for more than 20 years, and had twice before been mayor of the small city 45 miles south of Portland. Those terms, however, were before his breast implants and before the once-discreet crossdresser started wearing dresses and 3-inch heels in public.

Silverton has made Rasmussen the country's first openly transgender mayor, according to the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund, a group that works to help openly lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people win elected office.

Rasmussen, 60, unseated incumbent mayor Ken Hector, with whom he had long clashed, by 1,988 votes to 1,512.

more @ http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hrMGa-WMVfB0sTvWuaI_fhlo8MnQD94ARCHG0

[Doityourself]

57. If we survive, yes, eventually! Notice how long it took for a minority...n/t

[debbierlus]

59. I don't know

[Motown_Johnny]

60. yes, maybe not in my lifetime but "ever" is a long time.

[qwlauren35]

62. On the subject of "lifestyle"... Yes, it IS a choice for SOME.

YES!!!!!!!!! Some people decide to "try the gay lifestyle".

Anne Heche comes to mind. Lindsay Lohan comes to mind. And some personal friends.

All bisexuals have the "lifestyle option". And some of them choose it. Both temporarily and permanently.

And this confuses the living crap out of straight people.

I think that's why I hate when "gay" people make the "it's an orientation, not a lifestyle" statement, but embrace bisexuals in the overall community. It weakens the case pretty drastically.

[BluRay01]

86. This is just flat-out wrong.

Sexual orientation (including bisexuality) is NOT a choice. Sexual behavior is a choice. Orientation is who a person is...it's biology. There are certainly some bisexual people who end up in long-term relationships with a person of the opposite sex, as there are bisexual people who end up in same-sex relationships. That doesn't invalidate their attraction to both sexes.

This "gay lifestyle" talk is, to use a Bidenism, malarkey. There's no one lifestyle for the GLBT community any more than there's a single lifestyle for heterosexual people.

[qwlauren35]

90. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but...

I have tried to write what I'm thinking for over an hour. But in my heart, I think you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Yes, the things that happen on ships or in prisons are "BEHAVIORS". But, were all of the participants (who left wives and families at home) bisexual? Or in the closet? Or simply unwilling participants?

Basically, you are suggesting that there is either NO correlation between behaviors and orientation... or simply that the explanation of many behaviors is bisexuality, and some people just don't recognize it as such.

The original question is whether an openly gay or lesbian person will ever be president. And my answer is: not until over 50% of our society becomes comfortable with the full range of sexual orientations that exist in living beings... and the opposing candidate is as undesirable as Dick Cheney or a W clone.

The memories of the American people are not quite that short, so it will probably be 50-100 years before we see another president as awful as George W. Bush. But watch for him or her - after 8 years of such a disaster, an openly gay or lesbian politician will have a decent shot at the White House.

[WI_DEM]

63. One day, yes, but probably not in my lifetime.

[totodeinhere]

64. I used to think that we wouldn't see an African American president in my lifetime.

Well, thankfully, I was wrong.

So while my first instinct was to say that we will not see a GLBT president anytime soon, perhaps that's not so. We have broken down one barrier. Why not break down another?

[Lady-Damai]

83. The Black struggle and Gay struggle is not the same thing.

There is also whole lotta racism in the gay community. http://rodonline.typepad.com/rodonline/2008/11/n-word-and-raci.html

The Gay community needs to stop the finger pointing.

[Bluenorthwest]

87. The gay community and the black community

are often the same person, sweetness, and if you don't know that, my guess is you don't know much. How much time have you spent with gay folk in your community?
And of course, you are pointing fingers while saying others should not. There's a speck in my eye, but a board in yours. Have a nice hypocrisy.

[Lady-Damai]

88. Well, Sugah.....

My older gay black male friends have shared with me for years about dealing with racism in the gay community. My friend Johnny committed suicide because he felt there was no place for him in this world. Being black and gay is not fucking stroll in the park. Don't fucking act all high and mighty like racism doesn't exist in the gay community.

[Marrah_G]

65. Realistically, I think it will be a while.

I think there will be a woman president first.

It's going to take a couple more generations to make a real dent in people's ignorance about GBLT citizens.

[TexasObserver]

66. Yes, but it will be 20-30 years happening.

[Liberal_in_LA]

72. yes...eventually.

[Barack_America]

73. Sure...after the rapture, that is.

[Juche]

74. Yeah, probably in 20 years

I really don't know but I'm extrapolating based on the civil rights movement.

The nation's first transsexual mayor was elected in this last election. We already have a few openly gay politicians like Barney Frank. Being gay however can for the most part be hidden from public view and personally I wouldnt' consider it much of an achievement in and of itself (unless they act gay in public). We have already elected gay politians, just not openly gay ones. James Buchanan may have been gay. A better question is when can the first transsexual/transvestite president be elected? I would wager the 2030s or so, probably later.

[Politicub]

75. Yes, I'm hopeful

Maybe not in my lifetime, but Obama's rise gives me hope that anything is possible in America.

[THUNDER HANDS]

76. only if its a lesbian

and I mean that seriously.

[Blasphemer]

78. Eventually... yes.... but it will be awhile

Brown vs. the Board of Education was 1954 and it took 54 years after that "separate and therefore not equal" decision to get a Black president. First, we need to get the SC to rule appropriately on Gay marriage and then wait another half century. I may not live to see it but perhaps I will have children who will see it in their lifetime.

[Lady-Damai]

79. Not in my liffetime. n/t

[bunnies]

80. Not in my lifetime. And - We wont get an atheist either.

Hope Im wrong.

[blue_onyx]

81. Not in my lifetime..

and I'm fairly young(24). It will be a long, long time before this happens.

[That Is Quite Enough]

82. Never. America will never get to that point, unfortunately.

Sorry, just my opinion.

[TheDonkey]

84. Yes, eventually. 30-40 years after gays can marry across the country

and the atmosphere should be right, that is some 70 years from now. Hopefully sooner by at least 2040 :(

[TheKentuckian]

89. I'm thinking a lesbian might be able to do it in 20 years

but as far as an openly gay male, it could be much longer 50 years or more. Maybe when Gen Y are the old farts. I think it may be still a leap for us X'ers, a makeable leap but still a real one.

I graduated from high school in 91 from possibly one of the most liberal and open schools probably in the country and there was just one openly gay person at that time and he was the type to try to get people buzzed up and go for it, which often created some rather nasty backlash.
Hell, I still don't know many openly gay men and I think that has some affect on a person's ability to relate and embrace.

It will take a long time to unwind weak from gay in a lot of people's minds and weak has little chance to be President. In fact, maybe an open lesbian wouldn't be utterly out of the question in 8-16 but it is going to be a while on an openly gay male and even a generation after that for an effeminate gay man.

I'm thinking we'll need at least two full generations that don't have context when someone says "in the closet" or "out of the closet" before this kind of a step is possible.

[Zomby Woof]

91. It already happened

James Buchanan in 1856. He was called a "bachelor president" for appearances' sake, but it wasn't exactly a secret.

[Norrin Radd]

93. I think so. And the next step after that -- android President.

[TheKentuckian]

97. Data for President 2450!!!!

[Colobo]

94. Yes, but in about 30 years.

Gays are still fighting for rights in this country today. It's a long battle ahead.

[Iggo]

96. Nope.

And we'll never elct a black president, either.

Wait. What's that now...? The HELL you say!

[terrya]

98. This country will never elect an openly gay or lesbian President.

Hell, look around you. Are there any openly gay or lesbian governors (and no, goddammit, James McGreevey does NOT count)? Any openly gay or lesbian United States Senators? Any gay or lesbian Cabinet members?

This country will NEVER elect an openly gay or lesbian President. We're too goddamned backward and ignorant in terms of homosexuality. I don't think we'll ever get full equality for GLBT people.

[harun]

99. No.