Most STOLEN ELECTION Ever!!

[torbird]

Actually, no. No, it wasn't.

Can I get Greg Palast or RFK, Jr. out here one more time to tell us all about how our votes DON'T COUNT and the election is ALREADY STOLEN?

Fuck off and see you in four years, guys.

[bunkerbuster1]

1. Had those folks not alerted us to real, live, honest-to-god issues

I think you wouldn't have had the early-voting turnout that won this election for us.

So, sorry if you find Greg Palast or RFK Jr. to be annoying, but they played a very important role. and I thank them for their vigilance.

[Overseas]

34. Had you read more of the real news about election fraud past and present

you would not be making such a dumb statement.

DID IT NEVER OCCUR TO YOU THAT ALL OF US WATCHING, and the many instances of purging voter rolls, robocalls and fake goverment memos to misdirect voters that we caught before the election just might have encouraged the GOP to hold back some of the electronic fraud?

DO YOU WANT TO RISK THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS being stolen because we didn't bother to finish our work on cleaning up the elections?

OHIO AND FLORIDA had DEMOCRATIC Secretaries of State this year. That made a big difference.

[Sodan]

2. Who knows? Maybe Obama won by 15%?

[Solomon]

30. That's what I'm talking about! I keep hearing right wing pundits say

that bigger turnout this time was a myth, that the same number voted this time as in 2004. Who the hell believes this? Something doesn't add up, and it's about 20 million votes that seemed to have gotten lost.

[panader0]

3. You're saying fuck off to RFK Jr.?

Go away, far away........

[knixphan]

49. seconded.

[dkofos]

4. They certainly tried.

[Overseas]

33. YES THEY DID and will use the techniques at the mid-terms again

unless we keep going and get NATIONAL MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS like

paper ballots or paper trails that are randomly audited

voting machines distributed on a non-partisan basis

voter registration rolls handled on a non-partisan basis

[sandnsea]

5. Maybe they didn't want this one stolen

Maybe that's how terrifying the risk of Sarah Palin in the White House is.

[Teaser]

16. yes, our all powerful enemies decide everything for us.

You know, only lunatics have completely consistent and coherent theories of social control like this...

[sandnsea]

19. What powerful enemies?

What the hell are you talking about?

[Teaser]

20. You know, CHAOS, the Legion of Doom, the Bilderbergs, the Masons....

.

[sandnsea]

27. Well I was speaking of Republicans

But it isn't much of a leap to imagine that a number of individual global CEOs weren't enamored with McCain/Palin either.

[AllieB]

6. There was election fraud in many states, but we had the numbers to overcome it.

They were right, but the massive turnout gave us the victory.

[Teaser]

17. two things

a) turnut was up, but not massively so

b) Closing numbers matched most polls and poll averages.

So if they tried to steal the election, they did a shit ass job of it.

[Overseas]

36. More than two things -- Lots of their vote purging attempts were stopped this time

And some states threw out those no-paper-trail electronic voting machines before this election.
And two key states now had Democratic Secretaries of State -- Florida and Ohio.
And the GOP IT Guru Mike Connell was subpoenaed to testify on how he was asked to manipulate an earlier GOP election.
And cases of robocalls and fliers to misdirect voters were discovered and publicized.

COULD IT POSSIBLY BE that seeing the poll numbers, the GOP decided not to do the full run of electronic fraud this time in order to save those security holes for the midterm elections?

Another question-- IS IT WRONG TO PUSH FOR FAIR ELECTIONS that can't be hacked?

We've gotten half way in improving election security but we are not there yet.

Election procedures are handled at the state level but we need national minimum standards like

Paper trails subjected to random audits

Voting machines distributed in a nonpartisan manner.

Voter registration purging done in a nonpartisan manner.

[backscatter712]

52. YES! We called them out, and they were forced to turn the volume down.

Every time they tried to pull shit, activists were there, Obama's Election Protection lawyers were there, Democratic party poll watchers were there.

I have to give yet more kudos to all of you working to keep this election honest - you did indeed force the Republicans to play a more honest game.

DO NOT LET UP!!! Don't think they won't try again next time. Don't think they're not waiting for us to let our guards down.

[Overseas]

59. Exactly! The GOP would prefer we forget these worries for the mid-term elections.

Less people turn out to vote usually, so they're easier to steal. A few votes here and there, and then each incident is "too small to affect the outcome." Easy to wave away.

So we need to finish the work of cleaning up our elections before then. Get some minimum national standards like paper trails and random audits.

Toss out more electronic voting that does not have paper trails that can be subject to random audits.

Distribution of voting machines should be done on a nonpartisan basis.

Voter roll administration should be nonpartisan too.

[nyc 4 Biden]

7. Yeah!

Every eligible citizen was permitted to vote in an efficient and convenient manner and all votes were counted properly!!!

Damn those libruls who want fair elections!

[Ganja Ninja]

8. Once again, just because we overwhelmed them doesn't mean ...

they didn't try to steal the election or never will again.:eyes:

[nichomachus]

9. Well, there are a lot of people on DU who think

there's some skullduggery afoot with the Prop H8 vote in CA -- with uncounted ballots that could turn the tide. I don't personally subscribe to that, but there seems to be some real concern among a lot of people.

It's also possible that the warnings from RFK and Palast motivated people to get out, get out the vote, watch polls closely, and vote early that made the margin too big to steal and let the wingnuts know that we were watching.

I can't believe the idiots who shit on people for warning us, if the thing they warned us about doesn't come true. The warning may have been the very thing that prevented the outcome.

And, for the record, no one ever said your vote doesn't count -- except maybe the voices in your head.

[iamahaingttta]

10. What the hell are you talking about?

Without a little context, this post makes you sound like a crazy person.

[demnan]

11. Wake up - there was voter disenfranchisement

attempted in Colorado, Ohio, Virginia and Georgia. The Obama campaign was diligent in making sure some votes that had been thrown out were reinstated in Colorado and Ohio. In Virginia attempts were made to lie to the voters, but they were too smart to believe these lies. Attempts were also made to keep Virginia college students from voting.

In Georgia there is still a question of votes being spoiled and investigations are going forth.

Thanks to RFK Jr and Greg Palast for keeping alert on this top.

Just because our guy one the national election doesn't mean there might not be a problem in local elections in various areas.

[LynneSin]

12. Are you on crack? They didn't steal it but it doesn't mean it was clean either

and there are questions outstanding about shenighans in Minnesota, Alaska and Georgia.

And like another poster mentioned - just because Obama won doesn't mean there wasn't potential problems out there.

We need to continue focus on these electronic machines and do our part to get them removed. Perhaps Palast & RFK Jr's dire warning helped bring out even more voters to ensure we could cover the theft.

[kevinds13]

13. Apparently

you've been ignoring the return discrepancies in Georgia and Alaska...

[Overseas]

38. And the many articles documenting cases of voter suppression and vote purging.

But it feels good to some folks to say -- SEE LIBERALS WERE DUMB !!

Those folks don't realize they are also saying -- WHO NEEDS FAIR ELECTIONS?

IF they'd just watched www.stealingamericathemovie.org for free, they'd know why we care.

[truthisfreedom]

14. Election theft ONLY works in cases where the vote is very close.

It's then, and only then, that rigging the machines and gaming the system can be kept relatively hidden.

If they'd tried to manipulate these huge swings with the methods they used in 2000 and 2004, it would have resulted in street riots. Besides, everyone was on edge, looking for clues this time.

[Botany]

15. I worked in Columbus .... cheating is still very real

9% of all voters (inner city) who signed the poll logs, got a permission
to vote slip, voted on an E.S.S. i-votronic machine, and got an I voted
today sticker did not show up that they even voted at all.

[kath]

44. So you're saying that, in some precincts, 9% of the votes disappeared?

Jeebus.

Our election system is soooooo fucked up, in so many ways. MAJOR reform is needed - NOW!

[Alter Ego]

18. Greg Palast does good work.

I'll admit that being told my vote wouldn't count over and over got tiresome, but that was more the fault of folks here than people like Palast.

[salguine]

21. Do you really think they didn't try to steal this election? The only thing

that prevented it was that the margin for Obama was too large to enable them to be able to do it. Don't think for a moment that they didn't try.

[blondeatlast]

22. Just because we won doesn't mean there wasn't ratfucking--just that we won

resoundingly enough the rat-fucking didn't work as it should.

Long lines in major cities, disinformation tactics, cynical broad-base challenges--and oh, yeah--election fraud--happened.

They just didn't WORK.

Big difference.

[NYC_SKP]

25. great minds....

....think alike! :donut:

[NYC_SKP]

23. Now looky here, sonny. That we won doesn't mean they weren't cheating.

Your logic is soooooo Hannity.

I'll bet that they cheated their hearts out but not hard enough to overcome the huge support for Obama.

We will never know for certain but we probably won by a larger margin than we think.

Now run along.

Here's a dollar. Go away.

[Lorentz]

41. You're claiming "victory" based on an argument that can never be proven.

We'll never know if there was election fraud -- therefore, there must have been election fraud.

You can't prove that God doesn't exist, therefore God exists. Right?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

24. Another stellar FAIL from the irrational mind of torbird...

I'd much rather see you "fuck off" in place of RFK Jr. or Greg Palast.

[Highway61]

26. Your kidding me right? n/t

[prolesunited]

28. People were up on their tricks

and fought them on every turn. If the alarm had not been sounded, I think we would have had a different outcome.

Here's some examples off the top of my head of how the GOP tried to game the system:
* Threats in Michigan to challenge the votes of those who lost homes in foreclosure.
* Last-minute try to purge rolls in Ohio over registration, which the SOS fought in several court battles.
* Court fight to close down early voting locations in Lake County, Indiana, which helped deliver the state to Obama.

We need national election reform as one of the first order of businesses.
* National automatic registration for all citizens.
* Federal oversight board, taking duties away from a partisan SOS. How can you be head of the candidate's campaign AND oversee the voting?
* Verifiable machine voting with receipts and paper trails.
* Design system so no voter has to wait longer than 1 hour to vote.

You sound very ill-informed.

[seabeyond]

29. your post is ignorance and why this persists and not addressed. you refuse to look

at information that solidily show theft and abuse ergo leaving it for another election

i guess i chose to say you fuck off with your short sightedness and stupidity

[Peace Patriot]

31. Why are you trying to make people stupid, hm? This is a stupid-making post.

You think our election system is okay? And will you issue an apology when the rightwing dragons who own and control the 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, in election systems throughout the country, with virtually no audit/recount controls, come back atcha in 2010 and 2012, and Diebold Obama and all "the liberals" out of office, after a deliberately induced Great Depression-turmoil ridden, corpo/fascist news-monopoly-lying four years?

Cuz that's what we're up against--unless we restore fully transparent vote counting and end voter purges. We can elect a popular guy as president. We cannot re-elect a president in trouble--even if it is trouble that is not of his own making, cuz you know they will put all the blame for Bushwhack corpo/fascist looting and destruction of economy and our government on him, if he can't straighten it all out immediately tomorrow.

Look to the future, and stop aiding and abetting the stupid-making corpo/fascist media!

[Peace Patriot]

35. Torbird, you need to read this....

The Nation: 2008 will go down as a year activists were able to keep a rotten electoral system honest
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4428756

And I'd say "relatively honest," cuz 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting--without even a paper trail (no recount even possible) in half the systems in the country, and very poor audit/recount controls in the other half, is fraudulent upfront. It is a fraudulent system. It is made-to-order for fraud. This NON-TRANSPARENT vote counting system is NOT okay. It puts the country in grave peril. We may be able to outvote the machines, but can we outvote them in a close race, in troubled times, say 2012?

Your guess is as good as mine. There should NO GUESS WORK in our election system. Right now, we would have a hard time proving that Obama was actually elected. Do you realize that? Half the country has NO PAPER TRAIL. And the other half counts only 1% of the actual ballots. Not good. Don't let the corpo/fascist 'news' monopolies make you stupid. Be smart. Fight for fully transparent vote counting!

[Overseas]

32. UNTIL YOU'VE STUDIED the mountains of reports and video evidence

Spare us your disinterest in election integrity.

I have studied and read a lot of material. I watched 2004 get stolen. I know from whence I speak.

WE CAUGHT ONE THIRD OF THE DIRTY TRICKS and having the GOP's IT guru giving testimony about how he rigged a prior election really helped curb them this time.

[Lorentz]

57. There's a "mountain of reports" about 9/11, too.

MIHOP/LIHOP, controlled-demolition, no-plane theories, etc... Perhaps you should check those out, too. Some of them can be pretty convincing, but it doesn't mean they're right.

[Lorentz]

37. Standard tin foil DU theory: elections that go to the opposition are stolen.

If the election is "close" but the opposition wins, then it's election fraud (it's never because the Dem candidate just isn't as popular). If the opposition wins in a landslide, then it's massive fraud -- that many people couldn't possibly vote for them, after all!

If the Dems win in a landslide it's because of huge voter turnout (and thus you can't prove that fraud was attempted). I've yet to see an explanation of a close race that tilts to the Dems, though. Perhaps someone can explain how Obama won MO or NC. If there was election theft going on, shouldn't these states have gone to McCain?

These "election theft" stories never seem to be air tight. And I agree with the OP: according to Palast and RFKJ, this election was stolen from the get-go. So, how is it that we won?

[Overseas]

42. Standard Smear-a-Liberal Reply -- Don't review evidence just bash

How is it that we won? WE GOT AN AVALANCHE OF VOTES to get our landslide for Obama. Next question please.

We STOPPED A NUMBER OF VOTE PURGING AND VOTER SUPPRESSION EFFORTS.

Did you just miss the fifteen or so news stories leading up to the election? THen you can review them on Brad Blog.

Some states tossed out the electronic voting machines.

Two key states had Democratic Secretaries of State this time who worked really hard.

Stealing elections when they're close is easier and less detectable.


BOTTOM LINE QUESTION-- So you'll be just fine with the Republicans stealing the midterms so that Obama will have a tough time leading?

READ THE EVIDENCE. READ THE EVIDENCE. READ THE EVIDENCE.

Or watch the evidence in this free documentary. And you can then check out four other documentaries prepared by others. Then you can read the Conyers Report-- that wild conspiracy theorist of the Congress. Then you can read the articles by the two whistleblowers who have come forward.

www.stealingamericathemovie.org

[mvd]

50. I agree

We were vigilant, and had more Democrats in key positions, but they tried about every dirty trick in the book. If the margin of victory was close, we could be looking at another stolen election. I think the MN and AK Senate races, if they go to the Repukes, were stolen. In fact, some key close races went the Repuke way there and in the House. You'd think we would have gained more seats in the House.

The warning signals from people like Palast helped make the Presidential race too lopsided to steal. The final margin mirrored many polls. Also helped there was no Bush involved.

[Lorentz]

54. "I think the MN and AK Senate races, if they go to the Repukes, were stolen."

'Nuff said.

[mvd]

56. Enough said, indeed

But not the way you intend IMO. BTW, I DO NOT think the Georgia race was stolen. So that goes against your theory.

[Overseas]

58. MN will have a hand recount. Review evidence

and then no "faith" or assumptions are required.

That's why we need to keep fighting for paper trails for electronic voting that are subjected to random auditing.

Right now, too many electronic machines have no paper trails and do require faith in the goodness of partisan Secretaries of State.

[leftist.]

60. May I add GA?

GA's numbers are impossible to trust, and I'll add that I'm not typically one to jump on the "stolen election" bandwagon for anything beyond 2000. But the GA numbers likely cost us 15 electoral votes and a Senate seat on November 4th.

[mvd]

62. Of course

I don't know enough about the GA results to say.. but you seem to know more.

[leftist.]

63. All credit goes to Nate at 538 ;)

I wouldn't know anything about anything without him!

[Botany]

43. See post # 15

I have the data and was an eyewitness when the final #s of voters and
who they voted for was printed out after the poll closed.

The # of voters counted was 9% less than the total # of people who voted.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberal In Texas]

39. Just because your're paranoid doesn't mean they're not trying to kill you.

Just because Obama won the election, doesn't mean there wasn't voter caging, electronic machine fraud, and uncounted votes. Then there is the redistricting "funny business" they've been trying to promote.

The system still needs to be fixed. Get real.

[cameozalaznick]

40. And what about those weird results in Alaska?

I'm still not convinced that 80,000 fewer people voted than in 2004 in a state that has a smaller population than Columbus, Ohio. Smell test.

[backscatter712]

45. It's because of gadflies like Palast and RFK Jr., and all the people in Election Protection roles...

that our election wasn't stolen.

Don't think that Rove didn't want to. Don't think the thieves just magically disappeared after successfully stealing 2000 and 2004. They're already slavering at 2012. And don't you dare think that election thieves don't exist or have been vanquished forever.

The reason it didn't happen in 2008 is because people like Greg Palast and RFK Jr. sounded the alarm on all the election theft tactics that were in the works, the Obama campaign and independent groups like Velvet Revolution formed the biggest election protection effort in decades, with thousands of lawyers and countless volunteers who were there to keep the election honest - poll watchers, activists calling out the vote machine fraud, educating people on their rights so people weren't disenfranchised, mounting legal challenges to caging and voter purging, etc. etc. etc.

The Rovians were forced to turn down the volume of their fraud tactics. Don't think they weren't trying, but because election protection people were on their game, they could only sneak a couple points here and there - not enough.

[Johnny2X2X]

46. Bullshit

In several of these swing states there were very peculiar results. Virginia being that close should be alarming when Barack was quite comfortably ahead in the polls.

The Republican's stole a good %3-4 of the vote in several swing states and it wasn't enough to steal this election, but it would've had it been a closer election. These issues should still be at the forefront for the Democratic party.

[suston96]

47. Nothing wrong with these elections....our candidate won.....fuggedaboutit......nt

[Overseas]

51. Who cares if the Republicans cheat on the mid-term elections?

Why should we worry if we leave things as is and the GOP revives their dirty tricks to gain seats in the Senate and House during the midterm elections. Who cares if the GOP pushes Republicans into the house and senate to sabotage Obama's efforts.

What the heck, eh? All our senators and congresspeople should be as brilliant and charismatic as Obama and overwhelm all the cheating again.

Just because we have film of election fraud and documented cases of voter roll purging and other election fraud-- who cares?

Well, I care. I want some minimum national standards for election integrity--

-- paper ballots or a paper trail that can be subjected to random audits (many electronic systems these days don't have that. You just trust that things will be fine since Obama won. Never mind the direct observations of vote flipping and other problems with the electronic machines).

-- distribution of voting machines in a non-partisan manner (this time, unlike 2004, Ohio and Florida had Democratic Secretaries of State)

-- administration of voter rolls in a non-partisan manner (no voter roll purging to target specific groups)

[WinkyDink]

53. LOSER!!

[tkmorris]

55. You should buy a vowel

Seriously. Get a clue.

[windbreeze]

61. imho....we should never let this lie...we don't know what they did

behind the scenes this time around...and they are good at catching us w/o our pants on...wb

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. Epic Fail for you

At least 3, maybe more like 4 million votes were stolen.