Upside-down flag in protest of Obama, upsets neighbors in PA town

[sabra]

http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2008/11/10/news/doc4914ffea18806513884298.txt

Upside-down flag in protest of Obama, upsets neighbors



PULASKI TWP. — The day after Barack Obama became president-elect of the United States, Larry DeBaker flew Old Glory outside his Pulaski Township home — upside down.

Neighbor Marilynn Curry said Friday she is offended by DeBaker’s action, particularly on the weekend before Veterans Day and just after the election of Obama.

According to the United States Code, as it pertains to flag etiquette, “The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.”

“I do feel people are in danger,” DeBaker, 52, of 3703 50th St., said Friday night. “This country is in distress as far as I’m concerned.”

...

Around 7:45 p.m. Friday, DeBaker dialed 911, according to the Beaver County Emergency Services Center, saying that two men were standing outside his house threatening to harm him. There was no altercation, and the men left before police arrived.

[Wickerman]

1. Turn off the Fox News, Larry n/t

[Whalestoe]

2. What an idiot.

Why are people so stupid?

[goclark]

3. Stuck on stupid ~ Palin's Crew

[Metta]

4. First amendment, no?

I've been putting my flag stamps on upside down for the past eight years.

[EstimatedProphet]

19. Yes, it is. His opinion may be wrong, but he's not wrong for having a different opinion.

[Motown_Johnny]

20. Yes, but it is disrespectful to our flag. These are the same people who want a constitutional

amendment to ban flag burning.


It is clearly a first amendment issue, but it is still wrong IMO.

[LittleClarkie]

25. Yeah, but, some of us felt the same way in 2004

It's not disrespectful if they mean it as a sign of distress. That's how it was used here.

I remember there being a ruckus in 2004 about the cover of a book that the Vietnam Vets against the War put out in the early seventies that showed several of the vets standing like Iwo Jima with the flag upside down. Some Conservatives said then it showed a disrespect for the flag. Some here correctly noted that it was not a sign of disrespect, but a nation in distress.

He's a right to his opinion, same as we. But I don't appreciate the hypocrisy just the same.

[Motown_Johnny]

31. .

snip


" According to the United States Code, as it pertains to flag etiquette, “The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property "


IMO Protesting the Vietnam War with a book cover that has a picture of a flag upside down is very different than displaying an actual flag upside down because our democratic process yielded a President you would not prefer.


I still agree that it is his right to voice his opinion in this matter, but I also find it disrespectful.

[WinkyDink]

33. It is NOT "disrespectful to our flag". It is an OPINION, which OUR CONSTITUTION supports.

There is NO FLAG mentioned in that document.

[Motown_Johnny]

36. I agree it is protected under free speech.. the guy at the McCain rally with the monkey doll with an

Obama sticker on it is also protected under the first amendment, although it was disrespectful to Sen. Obama (now President Elect Obama).


According to the United States Code, as it pertains to flag etiquette, “The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property



Yes, it is disrespectful to display the flag improperly, or to let it touch the ground, flying it at night without it being properly lit or folding it incorrectly etc etc etc.

Flying it upside down just because you are unhappy about an election is protected under our constitution but I still disagree with his choice to make that statement and I feel "disrespectful" is the proper term.

[Zodiak]

48. It is NOT disrespectful to our flag

It is a legitimate protest to say our country is distressed.

I don't agree with the guy, but I also don't want to become a freeper for our side, either. Hanging a flag upside down is not disrespectful....a LOT of us were doing it with * in office.

[Motown_Johnny]

53. Yes it is, that is indisputable.

Just because something is protected under the first amendment does not mean it is not disrespectful. Yes, your right to be disrespectful is protected by the first amendment.


The McCain supporter with the monkey doll labeled with an Obama sticker was being disrespectful, but he has a right to voice his opinion

I could call you some names (and right now I am tempted to) that would be disrespectful to you even though I have a right to say those things


snip


According to the United States Code, as it pertais to flag etiquette, “The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property


This was not a signal of dire distress in an instance of extreme danger to life or property.

It is a breech of etiquette and therefore disrespectful.

[WinkyDink]

58. I grant you it's a breach of flag etiquette, But this seems simply a stupid protest,

disrespectful to Obama, maybe even to the nation, but NOT to the FLAG.

[Zodiak]

91. If you are tempted to call me names then perhaps you should not get so wound up

After all, this is one guy who is interpreting the flag code to suit his own opinion. Not exactly something to get worked into a lather about, and definitely not something to get mad enough to call people names over.

It's a flag....lighten up, Francis.

[Marrah_G]

95. Plenty of liberals did it for the past 8 years- lets not be hypocrites

[Essene]

39. 100% agree. The best response is to shine sunlight on it...

And not let it bother us.

Let this nonsense burn itself out.

[onenote]

5. I obviously disagree with him. But I defend his right to fly the flag however he wants

A number of DUers have written about flying the flag upside down during the chimpy years as well. Its a form of protected speech as far as I'm concerned.

[Danger Mouse]

6. I hope you shit your pants, you fucking moron.

:D
(DeBaker, not the OP)

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

7. Maybe Sarah Palin will fly in on her Helimoose and rescue him

[rucky]

8. If you "feel" people are in danger...

then they're not in danger - you're just being paranoid. If people were actually in danger, there'd be a much wider consensus on it. As it stands now, I guess I shouldn't be surprised how many people are acting paranoid right now. I think conservatism is a manifestation of paranoia. They fear everything.

[sniffa]

10. Conservatism is a mental disorder

:D

[SurfingAtWork]

9. Looks to me like a typical America-hater

Why do they hate America so much? It is so unpatriotic not to support your president.

[yellowcanine]

11. Random folks passing by ought to knock on his door and ask, "what is the emergency?"

I am sure the flag would come down after a day or two.

[MsTryska]

90. I LOVE this idea....

everyone should just line up at his door asking how they can help him, all shiny eyed and good-hearted.

Maybe his heart will unfreeze and grow like the Grinch's.

[blondeatlast]

92. I like that idea! If I were a neighbor, I'd be practicing breathless concern right now!

It isn't disrespectful to the homeowner in the least, either.

:rofl:

[Alter Ego]

12. Larry the horrible fucking racist can rot in his ever-shrinking echo chamber.

Who gives a shit what they do now? People like this are totally and utterly irrelevant.

[bdamomma]

37. They are a minority too.

sickening.

[sniffa]

13. I love this oft-repeated line from the imbeciles

"DeBaker, a McCain supporter, said the country “elected to the highest office in the land someone we don’t know anything about.”"

We just don't know anything about this black guy.

[sabra]

14. when ever I hear that - I respond where have you been the last two years?

[carpediem]

15. There is a house with an upside down flag here in

the Waukesha area too. I couldn't believe it when I saw it yesterday with my kids. My daughter is actually the one who noticed it and wanted to know why it was flying upside down, I said, because the person who lives there is an idiot. I did explain the point the person was probably trying to make and what an upside down flag means and she said, but Obama is going to get our country out of the distress that Bush caused. :)

[Sorceress]

23. Awww, see, you are raisin' em right!!! Good Job!

[specialed]

16. I've always been stunned by the graciousness of the right.

Such lacking is always stunning in mankind.

[Greyskye]

17. I had an upside down flag sticker next to my office nameplate for the past 4 years

It was a moment of pure joy when I removed it on Nov. 5th.

[Lerkfish]

18. oh, yeah, but they're the "real" americans.

irony impaired is what they are.

[NutmegYankee]

21. Funny how if Dems do, it's unpatriotic - They do it, and it's OK.

Oh the hypocrisy!

[Dem2theMax]

78. edited because of mistake

[Common Sense Party]

83. Also funny how when we do it, it's a legitimate expression of protest

But when they do it it's juvenile and racist.

Oh the hypocrisy, indeed...

[NutmegYankee]

87. Amazing isn't it?

I've encountered the "unpatriotic" line more often from the wingnuts, but I guess I was wrong to assume that was exclusively a wingnut view.



I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss


Ironic too!

[Marrah_G]

98. Bingo !

[Marrah_G]

96. Yup - hypocrisy everywhere !

I thought it was fine when our side did it and I think it is fine when the opposition does it.

[AtomTan]

22. Ten thousand punk rocker teenagers

are gonna be shopping for a new symbol of rebellion.

[Ian David]

24. Fox "News" has frightened their audience half to death.

When will they end the suffering of the people who pay their bills by finally telling them the truth?

[TexasObserver]

26. It's a free country! Anyone who wants to fly a flag upside down on their property can.

The flag belongs to him. The house belongs to him.

If he wants to fly the flag of Mexico, or Russia, or Pakistan, it's no concern of anyone but his Homeowners' Association and their rules for such.

[Uben]

27. These people are scared of their damned shadow!

Fuckin pussies, one and all!

[texas1928]

28. An idiot business owner is doing that here in Lubbock.

And you can bet I am not going to darken his door with my business.

[GreenPartyVoter]

99. I wouldn't either

[treestar]

29. Like the boy who cried wolf

"distress" is not supposed to mean the candidate I wanted was not elected President. Typical of these types. They stretch the meanings of words to gain maximum drama.

[bowens43]

30. A jackass down the street from me has done the same thing

in addition to this, his front yard is lined with small confederate flags.....

[zulchzulu]

32. He's entitled to flag his flag any way he wants

If he wants to engage in a reasonable discussion as to why he feels that the country is in distress, then let's have that discussion.

I would suspect he's just a racist swine and should be given a few rolls of tin foil to make hats out of. But he is certainly welcome to fly his flag whatever way he wants. Telling him that should be enough to piss him off.

[Dukkha]

34. no different than my right to burn the flag

which I would do if I saw fit

[RedLetterRev]

35. I'll defend his right to do so

but he must acknowledge my right to call him a hypocrite. These are the same people who lambasted us for the last 8 years when we knew damn-well the country was in trouble. If there was any doubt, just look around and see where we are today: an economy in shatters, mired arse-deep in wars with no exit strategy, giveaways to the ultra-rich while foreclosures are at record highs, war crime upon war crime perpetrated by a lawless administration... why, the list is endless.

Let the correct candidate achieve office and the poo' widdle wight wing are tho upthet. Quick, somebody call the waaambulance before they bleed to death!

My heart is pumping pisswater for each and every one of them.

[Malikshah]

38. As someone who turned his flag decal rightside up Wednesday morning in his office

in a simple yet personally moving way, I should have a hard time condemning this. The key difference in this person's case, however, is that whereas I had my flag displayed upside down in my office, this person has it publicly displayed-- the audience/intent/effect is much more far-reaching.

DeBaker is making a public statement, and may be using the flag in a public way -- The public nature of the display is what is the key here-- he may be in trouble for that.

[kestrel91316]

40. Halp, halp!!!!! Amurka's in DANGERRRRR!!!! We're gonna have

a damn n----r in the White House!!!!! ZOMG!!1!!!11!!!!

[sakabatou]

41. And people yelled at us when some Dems did it.

[mwooldri]

79. We did it, they did it.

There will always be a silly person with a flag protest.

However there is a bright side. They are not burning it. Yet.

[kestrel91316]

42. IMHO the man is a racist asshole. Obama hasn't even been sworn in,

has not taken any actions as President, and yet he has prejudged him. My guess is NO black would satisfy him.

I will defend to the death this man's right to exercise free speech in this way. It was good enough for us for years, after all. But I also reserve the right to consider him a pimple on the ass of American society.

[Common Sense Party]

84. Where did the guy say anything about race? n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

43. It is a moron's response.

Please note, my avatar is an upside-down flag, which will remain unchanged until the day Obama takes office.

But that is a virtual flag in a virtual world. I would not fly my real flag upside-down in the real world unless there was an imminent threat to my physical well being in the real world - then, it is an entirely proper way to say "send help". I might carry it upside down at a political protest, where the context defines it, but to just run it up the flagpole in protest of the government - no matter who is in the government - is a mis-reading of the intent according to the flag code.

[onenote]

50. i think you just called some DUers morons

If you choose to fly a flag avatar upside down, but not the actual flag, that is your choice and your right. But some people, including some DUers, have chosen to fly flags upside down in public. And that is their choice and their right. I wouldn't call someone a moron for flying a flag upside down. I would call someone a moron for thinking that the election of Barak Obama is cause for flying a flag upside down.

[RaleighNCDUer]

54. Yep. nt

[JeffR]

44. DeBaker may be an idiot, but I support his right to do this.

We'd have done the same thing with ours when Bush invaded Iraq, but instead we took ours down entirely. And it stayed down until November 4 of this year.

[ROh70]

45. Imagine if a democrat flew an upside down flag to protest Bush and the Iraq War.

Fox News would have been calling for that guy's head, talking about how liberals are traitors, etc. What a fucking double-standard. These assholes need to be called for being what they are - UNPATRIOTIC.

[onenote]

47. Democrats did. Including DUers.

I'm sure it was something that the Fox fools wouldn't like. I also don't recall them making a big deal of it anywhere.

[AlCzervik]

49. It was a big deal during the 2004 election when Kerry was accused of pissing on a flag

and carrying one upside down. I'm pretty Hannity was the biggest complainer--quell surprise.

[onenote]

51. and Hannity is an idiot who I would never want to emulate.

[AlCzervik]

46. 1st amendment rights and See Voltaire.

[southernyankeebelle]

52. Yep

Yeah, I could see why he did it. For the last 8 yrs my husband and I have been putting our stamps of the Liberty Bell or the Flag upside down in protest of the last 8 yrs. I guess its all in your prospective. But I at least give Bush a chance to prove himself. After the invading Iraq is when we started putting our stamps upside down. Just a quite protest.

[pipi_k]

55. Well I suppose it could have been worse

Like...he could have (literally) wrapped himself in the American flag and stood on a street corner soapbox ranting at anyone who doesn't believe the same things he does

Like a True Patriot, don't ya know... :patriot:





bah...the guy is an idiot

His neighbors are giving him way more attention than he deserves

he'll get over it.

He'll have to....

:7

[Renew Deal]

56. Now we just need some black helicopters to keep an eye on him.

It's like Back to the Future. :hide:

[Bubbha Jo]

57. An idiot in my town who owned a dental lab flew one upside down during the Clinton years.

I think it's silly but it's their right to do so.

[ieoeja]

59. Everyone who goes by there should call the police.

"You've reached the Pulaski Township Emergency Services Call Center. Do you have an emergency to report?"

"Someone has put up a distress signal at 3703 50th St and apparently needs emergency assistance."

{Sighs}"Yes, sir or madame, he does this all the time."

"Well, it might be serious this time."

"We have dispatched an officer who will check on his well-being."

"Thank you."


Nothing like having the cops stop by day after day to brighten this man's life. Actually, if that started happening I imagine the police would start fining the man for causing interference for the 911 call center.

[Obamarama]

60. You know what? I don't care. A lot of us did the same thing during the Bush years.

GOD, that sounds positively stupendous to refer to the Bush years in the past tense.

Anyway, I digress. I had an upside down flag sticker on my car in protest of Bush. I suppose if this guy hates Obama and wants to fly an upside down flag, who am I to say he's wrong. Of course I had a good reason, he's just bat shit crazy.

[stuntcat]

61. real PATRIOTS

:grr:

[political_Dem]

62. Welcome to the new "Post-Racial" America

:eyes:

[cooolandrew]

63. This is helpful really we know where to post truth out info wherever we see upside down flags.

[cooolandrew]

64. The campaign for 2012 starts now, we keep getting truth to people every way we can dvd or articles.

[CANDO]

65. If that were a Democrat, the wingers would be blowing a gasket.

But of course a Puke can get away with it.

[Vinca]

66. He can always put the wheels back on his house and move elsewhere. nt

[RamboLiberal]

67. Figures this guy is in SW PA - the only areas of PA

where a few counties voted in greater percentage(not much) for McCain than the votes for Bush in 2004.

Murtha and Rendell were right on this area of PA!

[NYC Liberal]

68. I supported this form of protest in 2004 after Kerry lost

if that's what he wants to then fine. There are plenty of DUers who did it then, looking back at a number of threads.

Of course if this guy was one of the ones who was "outraged" when we did it, then fuck him.

[JoePhilly]

69. Its nice when the stupid can self identify so the rest of us can avoid them!!

I like seeing confederate flags in the rear window of a pickup truck for the same reason.

[doc03]

70. My Republican neighbor flew

the flag upside down for 8 years when Clinton was President.

[Fire1]

71. See, THIS is why this 20% of the population needs to be EXPORTED

to an island or shipped to Alaska.

[LynnTheDem]

72. “This country is in distress as far as I’m concerned.” No fear, George W. Bush

is almost gone, Larry.


Now go hug Curly and Moe for comfort.

[Left Is Write]

73. Some people right here did the same thing during Bush's biggest disasters...

[BuelahWitch]

74. Oh fuck, that's where I grew up!

:cry: I don't remember all those wingnuts in the '70s!

[RetroLounge]

75. People here did the same thing when bush was selected.

So no big deal, and not even original...

RL

[TankLV]

76. It's his right - I flew mine upside down for EIGHT YEARS now...

Now, I am finally PROUD of my country again, where before Tuesday, I was ASHAMED for it...

[Rocknrule]

77. Tell them to love it or leave it

[boppers]

80. People should be knocking on his door 24/7...

Offering to help, because of his distress signal.

Seriously, wouldn't that be a wonderful kind of community gesture, where a national tradition was adopted that people who were distressed got help from their neighbors, from random people driving down the street, offering to help in whatever way they could?

[Morning Dew]

81. I flew mine upside down after the 2004 election

and I used to use the upside down flag avatar here on DU.

[ecstatic]

82. I hope he's put on the terrorist list nt

[codjh9]

85. Same ol' same ol' - conservative who sees the exact opposite of the truth! Better times are ahead!

[bridgit]

86. Eh so what, plenty have been flying the flag upside down for years for bush...

and for reals!! Let the baby have his bottle. There's something weird about a dude anyway that puts so much ornamentation into his flag pole :eyes: but doesn't have enough sense to put up a little awning over his porch to keep his dumb-ass head from getting soaked in the rain = pure republican douche nozzle

[RamboLiberal]

88. Local news just reported someone stole his flag tonight

Now that's wrong. I'll post the story when the TV news posts it. He's getting calls both in support and thinking he's an idiot. The neighbors they interviewed thinks he's an idiot. Another Joe the Plumber wannabe IMHO.

Video of the fool. http://kdka.com/services/popoff.aspx?categoryId=9&videoId=[e-mail]&videoPlayStatus=true&videoStoryIds=&videoTime=30.083&

[SeattleGirl]

89. It's not against the law for him to do this. God knows there

have been people on DU with an upside down flag avatar.

I actually have no problem with him flying his flag upside down. He is using his first amendment rights to express his opinion.

I don't agree with him, but I do agree with the right that allows him to do this.

[grandpappy]

93. Don't worry

the little town that this nut lives in is a little bigger than a Wal Mart parking lot. In a good wind you can pee from one side of the town to the other. It has 1 gas station and a post office. It's one of those towns that just happen to be built where 2 roads intercept. Population of about 500 people. It's the area Murtha was talking about. Clan was very big in this area during the early 1900's. They never shed there hatered for blacks.

[Marrah_G]

94. Plenty of liberals have done it for 8 years- let's not start being hypocrites now.

[nini]

97. fine with me

I love my 1st Amendment - even when stupid people are covered under it. :-)