About the Cosby interview (and that horrible thread)

[Essene]

1. The OP misquoted Bill Cosby to make him take all the credit, which was absolutely NOT what Cosby was saying or meaning.

2. Cosby's point was just that the Huxtables broke stereotypes as one of the most popular shows of the 80s and one of the only times blacks had been represented as successful, educated and generally awesome.

3. The punchline of the article is that in the 80s, many critics said the Cosby Show was unrealistic and portrayed "fake blacks." As Cosby jokes at the end, he wonders if folks might see the Huxtables in a new light now.

4. If you are too young to remember the Cosby Show, you really oughta consider watching a lot of the old episodes, especially ones from the first 2 seaons.

Barack Obama's election holds special significance for Bill Cosby

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2008/11/the-huxtables-g.html
The election of Barack Obama as president of the United States had a special significance for comedian and entertainer Bill Cosby. It was the realization of a dream that he felt was first visualized on the groundbreaking "The Cosby Show," which concentrated on the importance of education, hard work and parenting for black families.

"I can't negate the theory that the Huxtables on 'The Cosby Show' may have helped pave the way for the Obama family," Cosby said today. "People enjoyed watching that black family," he said, noting that the Huxtables were a two-parent unit with an educated father and mother constantly loving their children while correcting them. He said the dynamics of the families who brought up Barack and Michelle Obama closely mirrored the Huxtables' commitment to success and excellence.

On the show, Cosby played Cliff Huxtable, an obstetrician who lived with his attorney wife Claire (Phylicia Rashad) and four of their five kids in a New York brownstone.

"The Cosby Show," which aired on NBC from 1984 to 1992, was the top-rated series during the mid-1980s and turned NBC at that time into the No. 1 network. Though it sparked an avalanche of family sitcoms, it was also criticized at the time for what many felt was an unrealistic portrayal of African Americans.

A 25th anniversary DVD box set of the series is scheduled to be released shortly.

Quipped Cosby with a laugh: "For all those people who said they didn't know any black folks like the Huxtables, I wonder if they will watch the show now."

[Recursion]

1. 2 people eat free at Ben's

Bill, and Barack.

For the rest of us, the chili cheese half-smoke is worth $3.50.

[Essene]

2. sounds good... but i dont do dairy

[Recursion]

8. Then skip the cheese

The half-smoke with chili is still to die for, and you can go catch some jazz at the Caverns, some rock at 9:30, or some punk at Wonderland right after.

[Essene]

10. is that legal?

i figured it was illegal to enter wonderland without having recently consumed dairy.

[Doctor_J]

20. Unclear whether that "cheese" is actually dairy

;-)

[Essene]

23. i never went there but the next time im in DC...

im gonna go there... and HAVE DAIRY in solidarity with the cos.

[Recursion]

26. It's at 13th and U Streets

Get off at the U St stop on the Green line. Order the chili half-smoke. If you're not from DC you may not be familiar with the concept of a half-smoke, but it is the greatest sausage ever invented.

[Essene]

36. Will do. Ive been in the area... just never went there

I spent a lot of time in hotels around Dupont Circle and hanging out around Adams Mogan when visiting.

[seemunkee]

17. I may have to go there tomorrow`

My coworker went over the weekend and was making me hungry talking about it today.

[Recursion]

22. I used to live a block from there

Right between it and the Florida Avenue Grill. Breakfasts just aren't as good now that I moved north.

[Doctor_J]

18. I was there in July. The sign at that time said only Cosby

On the way out I said to the proprietor, "What about President Obama"? He just laughed. I'm glad O's been added to the list

[RoyGBiv]

39. Oh gawd ...

I just had a pleasant flashback.

I was SO hungry when I walked in there. I was not hungry when I walked out.

[Recursion]

40. I can't imagine being hungry walking out of there

One saturday I got:

A half smoke
Biscuits and gravy
French toast
Home fries
2 eggs (over easy)
and coffee

and paid $5 because Ben was in a good mood that day.

[RoyGBiv]

42. Kinda funny ...

I'd never been there, but my friend, who lives in Alexandria, wanted to take me. I was starving, hadn't eaten all day and had wandered around DC for hours.

So, I said "sure, let's go" not realizing how far we had to drive to get there from where we were, and I was PISSED. I needed food.

Besides not being hungry when I left, I was also no longer pissed. It was worth the wait. :)

I don't remember what all I ate, just that I ordered too much not realizing how much you got and that it didn't cost much comparatively.

Damn ... I need to go NOW.

[Essene]

53. oh lawd, he only charged you $5 cuz you were suicidal

could you get more cholesterol in a single sitting? i dont think so!

[calico1]

3. I loved the Cosby Show.

The Huxtables were my favorite TV family from the 1980's. It was a great show.

[Essene]

11. ya, much love to the huxtables and especially bill cosby :-)

[Lorien]

68. Me too-and it DID make many Americans wake up to the fact

that African American families were just like every other family in America; same challenges, same aspirations. Showing an African American family as upper middle class was also a very new thing in television; just as new as "Roseanne" was for showing us that everyone has a lot in common with struggling blue collar families. Those types of relationships are universal. That was back when the media was presenting programs that brought us together; there's not much out there like that now.

[okieinpain]

4. I don't see anything wrong with bill saying that. n/t.

[bigwillq]

5. And I still believe

that the Cosby Show was not representative of the average American Family, white or black. That's what I said in that "horrible thread".

[KittyWampus]

9. you don't know any family's with both parents who are educated and working professionals?

really?

[bigwillq]

25. Of course I do.

But not like how upscale the Cosby's were, at least I perceived them to be upscale.

[theboss]

64. So, you didn't know rich people

They do exist.

[Essene]

13. i'd agree with that to a large extent

although i think most american marriages end up in divorce... but.... i still appreciate the sentiment. :)

[bigwillq]

24. Thank you for getting what I was trying to say.

I get your point, too. I do. I did make that snarky comment about that "horrible thread" because I don't think that thread was too bad, and we're entitled to our opinions. As are you. :)

[BumRushDaShow]

19. Why would every show have to be the "average American family"

and why is it assumed that it was to represent such? Did "All in the Family" represent "the average American family"? Did "Dynasty" represent "the average American family"? Did "Leave it to Beaver" represent "the average American family"? Did "Family Ties" represent "the average American family"? Did "The Honeymooners" represent "the average American family"? Did "Everybody Loves Raymond" represent "the average American family"? Did "Good Times" represent "the average American family"?

What IS "The average American family"? :shrug:

To me, there is no such thing.

[TomInTib]

32. I believe it was tokenism, pure and simple.

I never could understand the premise of that show.

And then there was Felicia Rashad (who was married to a guy named Bobby Moore).

I have never encountered a family such as the Huxtables that I wanted to be around for more than two minutes.

People who call every pastry a "Danish" and eat it with a fork.

Shitty sweaters and ties, easy chairs.

[RoyGBiv]

41. Curious ...

Robert Moore's name was Ahmad Rashad from the time he changed it in 1972. She opted to take that name.

I'm always perplexed when people refer to others who have changed their names by their original name in such a way that suggests this is their "real" name.

Anyway ... I liked the Cosby Show until the kids grew up. To each his or her own.

[JanusAscending]

49. "HOW LONG CAN YOU TREAD WATER".......??

n/t

[theboss]

65. Ok...what's with the Ahmad Rashad crack?

Got an issue with the name change?

[Essene]

67. sorry you have such disdain for the message

and im sorry you've never met "huxtables" that you have nothing but disdain for...

im curious what you think of those obamas... e'hem.

[Bluenorthwest]

71. Hey, did you hear?

These days we call Cassius Clay by the name Mr Ali, 'cause he changed it. I'm far more comfy with folks who use forks than those that take a poor man's pose as a style choice.

[lumberjack_jeff]

43. "The average family" is a chimera.

I think that the Huxtables were a great portrayal, and a pretty good show, largely because of Cosby's natural grace and good spirits.

That said, I love the Simpsons, but I don't expect Matt Groening to try to create "the average family" either.

TV is watched because it portrays unusual and interesting things. When TV tries to deploy a stereotype or caricature of "normal" it fails.

[theboss]

63. It was far more accurate than other sit-coms from the early 80s.

The Huxtables may have had more money and "class" than the averaqe family, but the parents ran the world and the kids were screw ups with good intentions.

In the average sitcom prior to them, the kids ran the world and the parents were screw ups with good intentions.

[bunnies]

6. *Warning* This thread is for 24/7 DUers ** All others are lost! Eject! nt

[high density]

7. Is there some reason why this REPLY to the thread needed its own thread?

I know I sound like an ass, but it would be courteous to keep these sorts of things self-contained instead of having every DUer start his or her own thread on each issue.

[KittyWampus]

12. some of us would rather not keep kicking a thread with a fucked up thread title that misquotes

Bill Cosby.

[Essene]

14. ^^ exactly

id rather start from scratch and have people bump a nice story about cosby and the huxtables.

[KittyWampus]

15. I actually did start a thread with the correct title. It sank, of course.

[Essene]

16. hah my apologies for sinking another one without checking

[ContinentalOp]

45. Hey, if you want to complain about it, start your own thread.

:P

[Drunken Irishman]

50. Maybe because most people ignore the replies to a very long thread?

[JuniperLea]

21. I rarely watch broadcast TV shows

I have always loved Bill Cosby, though.

Tell me, were all the white people on this show fat and/or stupid? I was watching Saturday morning TV with my daughter, and got really hooked on "That's So Raven" which stars the youngest member of the Cosby Show cast. She is great! Then I realized the white people were all really stupid... especially her best friend, who is an incredible airhead.

I think it's in bad taste to show such inequality.

[Kaylee]

28. To tell the truth, Raven's not the brightest bulb either...

And her "stupidity" is a lot more dangerous since she is the "brains" of the group. She leads them into all types of crazy situations, a la "I love Lucy". The only truly "smart people" on the show are the parents (that's a change).

Also, even though Chelsea appears to be an airhead, she usually comes off as the "conscience" of the group and leads Raven in the right direction.

*Whew, I watched waaaay too many hours of this show with my kid!*

[Essene]

30. ive seen that show maybe 2 times and found all the characters to be silly

even for that age group.

And that raven gal came into the Cosby show at the very end. Not exactly a primary cast member so I dont even really think of her as "part" of the cosby show when it was really successful. They started trying everything they could in the last few years to fill in cast and to keep the show going. It really sucked the last couple years.

[JuniperLea]

33. I've always like child actors...

And she was as cute as they come. Like I said, I probably watched Cosby twice... and they must have both been at the end of the series because Ms. Raven Simone was my favorite part of it all.

[JuniperLea]

31. Haha!

I'm more of a Jacob Two Two person myself. That, and the Sunday morning political shows are about it... oh, and Fringe! That is the only nighttime alphabet TV station series I watch. And Jeopardy:) But that's it! I swear! :rofl:

[nadine_mn]

47. I don't have kids and I watch that show

I love Raven...no idea why I am 36 yrs old but I wish I was an adolescent again just so I could have her for a role model rather than the Brady Bunch..lol

I am so embarassed

[Essene]

29. not at all... it was the #1 show in america during the 1980s for a lot of reasons

But keep in mind that the Cosby show of 1984-85 wasnt really the same as it was in 1992.

It was THE dominant show of the 80s. It caused a huge stir in 1984 and remained #1 from 1985 through 1990.

Cosby himself had great control over the show and kept it fairly lighthearted on issues of race, focused more on broad family issues, moral drama and "coming of age" stuff.

[rosesaylavee]

27. Loved that show...

When it aired, our family was living in a town where we felt very uncomfortable and were not at all happy to be there. We would laugh and say that the Huxtable's were our closest neighbors.

Bill is a great comedian and human being who has given us so much in the past 50 years. Not sure what that other thread was about - don't want to know actually if it was dissing Bill. I grew up on his comedy records, swooned over him in I Spy and loved every TV show he ever made... his movies, well, they sucked.

[Essene]

34. how dare you say his movies sucked. =D

He and Sidney Poitier were a brilliant comedy duo :D

[rosesaylavee]

37. Sorry - they were all awful!

Wasn't there another one where he was a ghost or something? I didn't make it thru the first 5 minutes of that one...

What a dear man though. One of my only fond memories of my father's funeral was when we were quoting Bill Cosbyisms from one of his early records. He was my Dad's favorite comedians and his joke delivery was not unlike Bill's.

[Recursion]

38. None as bad as Leonard Part VI

God, that was a bad movie.

[Essene]

44. blasphemy, you are tossing poo on sidney poitier and bill cosby

when's the last time you watched these movies? :)

MAYBE... they improve with age? have you considered that?

[rosesaylavee]

56. ummm. improve with age? ummmmm.

:P

Too bad they didn't get good script writers for these two talented people. Can I just say that I thought Sidney Poitier was the most under-utilized actor of our generation. I am sure he turned down a lot of scripts... probably only accepted these because Mr. Cosby asked him to participate.

[Essene]

62. come on now... the name is Mongo Slade....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhbG2VvGxHY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxPCa3uFu5U

:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0Fc9zaB-s8

[Teaser]

54. "Ghost Dad", a classic indeed.

.

[ContinentalOp]

46. Uptown Saturday Night and Let's Do It Again are classics. Anyone saying otherwise hasn't seen them.

[kiva]

35. Applause for starting this thread.

I responded to the other thread, but much prefer to kick a thread that's, ummmmm.....truthful about the what Bill Cosby actually said in the article.

[democracy1st]

48. K & R

[LowerManhattanite]

51. Um, not for nothing...

...but fuck Bill Cosby and his whiny, old-man-yells-at-cloud bullshit.

He spent his time during the civil rights era playing the vanilla, never-take-a-stand Negro, while his fellow luminaries like Jim Brown, Bill Russell and Muhammad Ali directly challenged the power structure that supported White supremacy. Bill played the casinos and never said a mumbling fucking word. As Mr. Big Black Star of his time, try digging up a photo of him from then with people who were laying it on the line. You'll sadden yourself.

Then, during the “Cosby Show” era (a decent program, but hardly a great one in the MTM or Dick Van Dyke mold), he began playing his moral scold role off-camera when the show took some heat for its depiction of Black life—which for all his yammering about its reality, didn't take the difficulties he and his family were actually facing. He took that bitching and moaning to new heights in his post-“Cosby Show” public “commenter” persona. The man has deep-seated issues about race and class, evidenced in his acrid comments in recent years towards poorer Blacks, while letting his wealthier brethren off the hook.

All of this while messing around on his wife Camille (and I work in TV in New York, so his “exploits”—the ones most folks haven't heard about are legendary), embarrassing himself and her with the Autumn Jackson paternity revelations, his own problems with dealing with his drug-addicted daughter, and finally, his getting caught out there with the exposure of that ugliness about doping up women who came to visit his house and trying to have his way with them.

Bill's status as some sort of arbiter on all things good and Black is seriously damaged by his own shenanigans and personal issues with Black folk. He's a protector and defender of a group that needs no defense—the mean bourgie folk among us who pulled the ladder up after they “got over”. He does not speak for me. He speaks for himself—as he ALWAYS has until he ceased being relevant a few years ago, and when he has tried to speak for and about the “race” since, he has been a train-wreck.

These statements by him don't shock me in the least. They are par for the course for an attention hog whose relevance is at an ebb.

I'd feel sad for him, but I just can't seem to muster up any feelings for him at all.

He can go suck on a pudding pop for all I—and a lot of folks could care.

[Essene]

52. dayum... could you be any more of a hater?

He was a sell-out uncle tom because he didn't confront racism vocally during his 3 years as the first black star of a major TV series in the 1960s??? Yer crazy.

The guy got a degree in education, pushed educational programming, tried to constantly push boundaries for positive images of blacks in american media... and your hateful response is "he didnt get up there and get indignant."

Sidney Poitier is a real chump, too, huh? Grow up.

Sorry... but you're full of crap, disrespectful and haven't really stopped to reflect on how important folks like him have been for race relations. And frankly, you can shove that "whiny, old-man-yells-at-cloud bullshit" criticism down your throat because the guy has had the guts to criticize his own people when a lot of others were too busy wallowing in their own victimization and indignation.

Show the coz some respect... and check your attitude... because it's you who's becoming a bitter old whiny person.

[LowerManhattanite]

72. Cosby did some good things...

But history is an undeniable thing. Considering his alleged “power”, his creation of and pushing of “Fat Albert & The Cosby Kids” as a great thing, while nice—is hardly commensurate with his influence. And Bill most certainly spent those years AFTER he was an established TV star (When “I Spy” ended) pretty much raking in the bucks in Vegas, shilling for Polaroid™ and Jello™ and took NO STANDS anyone can remember on the issues that roiled the day. (His bankruptcy at the hands of an unscrupulous financial planner may have exacerbated his desperation to maximize his earning potential and silence him a bit on things that mattered—I'll give him that.)

You can call me a “hater” and dismiss what I say out of hand, but that doesn't make any of it any less true. I mean, who the hell brought up Sidney Poitier? You set that straw man ablaze and burned your own eyebrows off, as Sid took on roles on camera and off that challenged the status quo far more directly than what Cosby ever tried to do. Yes, Sidney was a “serious” actor, and Cos a “Comedian”. So what? Jim Brown carried a pigskin. Bill Russell Ran around in shorts, and Ali danced about in a bathrobe. History IS what history IS, and your over-selling of Cosby in the face of the historical record is obvious and laughable to anyone who can do even a little research.

The impact of “The Cosby Show” was important—not just because of what it depicted, but because of the conversations it sparked. Bill ate up the hosannas, but blanched at the “conversations”—particularly those in Black America. And as to his “criticism” of Black folks, it's notable that the only statements one can dig up from him ON Black folks are the recent ones where he's taking poor folks to task for their so-called peccadilloes. His harsh words had the bitter sting of “haterism” themselves, and rang of “How dare you people have not gone as far as I'd have liked and embarrass me with your laggardness?” And when you consider his own complicated life—the “open marriage” with Camille (again, something well known in entertainment circles, but NEVER discussed publicly), problems raising his kids and the ugly, public cuckolding debacle, he doesn't have much of a pedestal to stand on to rip his perceived “lessers”.

My issue is his HYPOCRISY. And he is catapulting off that hypocrisy to put himself back in the limelight again. THAT'S egotism, and I'm (as well as many others who know his WHOLE history, not just the buffed-up P.R. image you're pushing) not cool with that either.

Did he do some good things? Yep. Does he get a pass on raking folks over the coals after HIS OWN litany of fuck-ups has been brought to light? Nope. I'm in the entertainment business and am well acquainted with him and his issues—better than most folks. So don't deign to tell me what you think I don't know based on things YOU clearly don't know.

The pedestal you place him so high up on is cracked and leaning. Ignore that if you want. It's as unsightly as hell to many others.

With that, done with you and ALL of your retrograde bullshit this campaign season.

[Essene]

75. dear lower manhattanite... come up to upper manhattan...

...and get off your own high horse. You're bitter, nasty and disrespectful.

Bill Cosby has done great things for blacks... for america... and your attitude is silly.

Be "done with me" all your want... but im not the one making a mockery out of history... and you're the one posting pure hatred at a great man. At least you can now admit he did "some good things," but you should just retract all that vile spew and start over... including with an apology.

[LowerManhattanite]

77. Born and raised in “Upper Manhattan”...

...Harlem, to be precise, hotshot. The blinders of “Black faces in high places” are just that. I refuse to wear 'em. You may myopically do so if you wish.

And please, continue blindly “servicing” the mighty Cos though. From what we now know, you'll apparently have to take a number. :)

You don't dictate the terms of discussion here, though. So, you can take that demand for an apology and “shove it down your own throat”—as per your kind request earlier.

Now, I'm done with you.

[Essene]

80. hate hate hate... bitter bitter bitter... nasty nasty nasty

Harlem doesn't need you.

I thought you were already "done with me"... but the truth is... you know you have a problem.

[Teaser]

55. Cosby is history's greatest monster

.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

73. You need anger management, pronto. (nt)

[bridgit]

57. I missed the other thread, now thinking that was a happy incidence...

But do remember The Cosby Show very well as an assembly of many types, stereotypes, and pro-actively anti-stereotypes having been run through the script analysis of Dr. Alvin Poussaint. And for many cases the better, even the sweaters that I have since very seldom if ever seen (so much so as to be unique & singular) chasing trains through a grimy union station.

On TV, and with Dr. Poussaint by his side nearly as a protectorate of 'the Huxtable image' he was so vital in creating; Cosby in these last few years (a man that has suffered great personal tragedy) has remained in attempts to validate the black influence on white America even noting little-such-means as white kids leaving homes that listen to country-western within; only to flip to hip hop once the limo takes them off and away. With much sitting atop Dr. Poussaint's data, numbers & survey/sample research, in an American media porridge where, if you will, Rihanna goes a little bit one way and Gwen goes a little bit the other; and Kanye West & Toby Keith refuse to take a step in either direction. But that's show business Cosby's in show business, still...

I've seen more than a few AA's of late trying to hitch their tow onto Obama's star suggesting that "but for me" the Obama family would be here maybe there the implication being the Obama's would be somewhere else, and I'm not convinced of that for a couple reasons.

Firstly, it trends toward discounting Obama's own story of the white family he grew up in; while at the same time discounting the strong, centered, hard working, down to earth black family of Michelle's by way of Dr. Poussaint's research data and 1984 - 1992 editorial/script analysis.

Secondly, and this was before the Cosby show; a gf of mine's bf bought her a Mercedes brand new, just handed her the title (he loved her but wow what a sucker!). Then they split up. And she decided she hated that car cause it reminded her of him...makes sense. She placed a little Ad in the penny saver, put one of those for sale signs in the window and, as it turned out, within *one day*, the black folks across the street called her up. She was a university level sociology professor, and he was a long-time, 25+yr railroad supervisor with two great kids in college just coming and going living their lives.

My gf and I went over after work at the agreed upon time, and after some "Howdy do's" and "Oh it's a lovely little car", etc, he brought out a leather attache, opened it up, and there was $35,000 cash just siting right there wrapped up. They asked if cash was alright, gf said that would be fine. They asked of she'd like to count it; gf said no that's fine. Gf signed the title, we all shook hands then they insisted we stay for coffee and these wonderful little pastries she picked up on the home from university just for this occasion wonderful people simply wonderful. When gf got home, right across the street, I helped her count it...it was all there right down to the dollar $35,000 cash.

I don't think it's a case of having to "negate the theory that the Huxtables on 'The Cosby Show' may have" had a positive impact on American life. It was a popular show with creative characters. Though even if fewer & further between, there's always been strong, centered, hard working, down to earth black folk in America. You may have needed to be watching something other than TV, but they've been there all along.

I wish Bill Cosby every kindness, and I cringe when he's lambasted by his own community for having the audacity to suggest abusive language & behavior within it be more considered. But it does seem that Obama's being elected; the encouragement of America's more creative angels now framing the faces of the Obama family, has caught many AA's off balance. I'm sure some thought it would never happen maybe for another 200-300 years but it happen just the other day. And a review of 'what did I do to make it happen' is in full swing, even here at DU.

If success has a thousand fathers? Then this one has Mom's & Dad's & sisters & brothers & Aunt's & Uncle's & cousins as far as the eye can see

Peace to Bill Cosby

[Celebration]

61. you are right

His election caught the African American community really off balance. It is just a very interesting story--think how people would have reacted to a sitcom based on the premise of Barack Obama's family. Tokenism, I tell ya.

[Essene]

66. Cosby also highlighted AA art, culture and constantly supported education

Cosby loved to integrate AA art, literature and pro-education messages in everything he did.

Sometimes it's been as subtle as him wearing university college sweaters/hats or whatever. The cast of the show clearly loved including AA-inspired clothing, music, dance and such into the show. The home and set often had AA-inspired artwork.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbi8DAJdCPk

I mean... that's from season 1 of the #1 show in america during the 80s. That's pretty profound.

(i had a huge crush on "Denise")

[bridgit]

81. Well, I do hear you but so did Picasso decades earlier

Sometimes the time isn't right to recieve, or they're too busy to absorb the message, or unable to accept the messenger...



But as I was mentioning in regards to Dr. Poussaint's construct which was a positive one but a construct nonetheless; so that the wearing of university sweaters, hats, and AA art were forms of product placements and again; positive product placements but placements nonetheless. That's just American Media that's how it's done, but now I wonder how many times Cosby hocked Jello during the run, hm...

Either way if people were looking to see Currier & Ives, or Norman Rockwell on the walls of the Huxtable household they'd have been sadly disappointed. Or for that matter coffee table, pop-up versions of Soul On Ice ;)

[Essene]

83. I dont remember a lot of Jello hooks or t-shirts :-D

We can mock it for being pop, mainstream, etc... but he absolutely changed perceptions of blacks in american culture and helped usher in a whole new generation of not only... characters, stories and actors... but also producers, writers, etc.

[bridgit]

85. hahahaha, sure i got'cha and now a word from our sponser

:thumbsup:
http://images.teamsugar.com/files/users/1/17470/35_2007/512CJEWYMZL._AA280_PIbundle-24,TopRight,0,0_AA280_SH20_.jpg

[CreekDog]

58. The show was groundbreaking as far as portrayal of African Americans was concerned

to the degree that their success was accepted and incidental to the stories is a big deal.

i remember people saying that it wasn't realistic to have a show about a black family with a lawyer and a doctor.

[BumRushDaShow]

59. Exactly.

And even right here on DU, there are posters who are STILL arguing that no such exists. Regardless of what people think of the man, and IMHO, being a Philadelphian myself (and thus being in a city that has often focused on him and the many hypocritical and scandalous aspects of his life), his show broke the mold of having at least one majority AA-cast show on the air that gave a different perspective for what was and still is often thought of as a monolithic AA community in the economic sense.

Interestingly enough, what's missing in the conversation is the fact that during the period towards the end of that show, he attempted to buy NBC and his offer was refused. If he had succeeded, he would have been the first AA to own (or at least have a majority interest in along with other investors) a major television network.

[Lorien]

69. I didn't know that he had tried to purchase NBC

Man, that would have been awesome!

[Essene]

70. i had totally forgotten that

it was a brief rumor which obviously went nowhere.

[BumRushDaShow]

78. Wasn't a rumor

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE7DA113DF93AA15753C1A964958260

I remember all the talk about it back then. He didn't have the type of money that Oprah now has, but he was essentially one of the highest in wealth from his ventures at the time (along with Gordy and the 2 Johnsons - Ebony's and BET's) and paved the way for folks like Oprah (who like Letterman, controlled ownership of a successful program, it's syndication rights, and distribution) to amass enough money to "play" high stakes. The last I had heard back then before the effort was dropped was that he had cobbled together about a billion dollars for it, but NBC wanted at least $4 billion and kept pooh-poohing that they were not for sale.

[seabeyond]

60. i introduced it to my kids for exactly your reasonings. sunday they were watching and laughing

hysterically. two decades later. it is an excellent show and i felt it was a much more positive representation of a black family for the nation than other shows they had on representing blacks.

boys love the show
i loved the show

and in all cosby's imperfection, i admire the guy and respect him.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

74. K&R - thank you for this thread. (nt)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

76. Who-said-it? Bill Cosby or Uncle Ruckus?

1. "In our own neighborhood, we have men in prison. No longer is a person embarrassed because they’re pregnant without a husband. No longer is a boy considered an embarrassment if he tries to run away from being the father of the unmarried child.

2. "You heard me, nigga, niggas can't fight. They don't possess the strength of character or the mental quickness to be a great fighter. That's why all the best fighters in the world have always been white men."

3. "I’m talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was two? Where were you when he was twelve? Where were you when he was eighteen, and how come you don’t know he had a pistol?"

4. "You mean we gon' let this African hooligan nigga go unpunished? "

5. "Isn’t it a sign of something when she’s got her dress all the way up to the crack…and got all kinds of needles and things going through her body. What part of Africa did this come from?"

6. "Shut yo' preachin' ass up, you son of a bitch!
(throws a brick at Dr. King) "

7. "Those people are not Africans, they don’t know a damned thing about Africa. With names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed and all that crap and all of them are in jail."

8. "Muhammad Ali? Well, if that nigga so tough, then why he didn't go to Vietnam? I'll tell you why. 'Cause he was scared, that's why. Shoot. "No Vietnamese ever called me nigga." I call him a nigga eight times before I have breakfast, now what he gon' do? Hold on, I'll make it nine... NIGGA! "

9. "Brown Versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person’s problem. "

10. "It’s standing on the corner. It can’t speak English. It doesn’t want to speak English. I can’t even talk the way these people talk."

11. "Who are these sick black people and where did they come from and why haven’t they been parented to shut up?"

[Zenmaster]

79. The Huxtables exist in greater numbers than even blacks realize.

Threads like this make me cringe. Now, if you say that the Cosby show didn't represent "the average family", that's true as the average American family is somewhere in the lower middle class.

However, I think its sad that so many people are so dismissive of the Huxtables as a family that actually exists. Especially when black people dismiss it. Real "Huxtables" have been around for quite awhile in reality. They just aren't people that get any attention or recognition.

My father is a black man from the South. He grew up dirt poor with 7 brothers and sisters. ALL 8 of them graduated college and went on to varying degrees of success. My father was the youngest and his brothers and sisters helped him go throuh medical school. My parents were both successful professionals and are still married. My father, being the youngest of such a big family, had me at age 35, and so I am the youngest first cousuin of an enormous extended family. We have reuinions with well over 200 people, many of whom I don't even know.

My extended family, of all black people from around the country, contains Doctors married to other doctors, college professors married to psychiastrists, PHDs from some of the top schools in the country, like MIT, self employed successes (one of whom retired to the Bahammas at around age 38). Almost nobody has failed to go to college.

We are real black people too. The Cosby show was great for me, because I was a kid in the 80's growing up with a black doctor for a father. We lived in an upper class area of our city and while my mom wasn't a lawyer (she was a teacher), we were very well off and lived in the same communities as other kids that did have parents on that level. The Cosby show represented me more than anything I'd ever seen on TV before.

Its sad that its been dismissed as so improbable. Bill Cosby is absolutely right on this issue, and as far as Civil Rights issues go, there are people needed in many aspects. Some to confront and challenge issues head on, sure. But others are needed to simply be examples. And there have been far, far too few examples in the black community over the years. None have matched the Cosby show before, or since then, until the Obamas.

[Essene]

82. instead of seeing over 45,000 black medical doctors...

We tend to look at the glass half-empty rather than half-full, so instead of hyping up and acknowledging 45,000 black doctors... we instead get trapped into arguing only about how that is only 5% of doctors and blacks are 14% of the population... lodging an indignant complaint of injustice as if it's still 1952.

We tend to see commercial rap artists and sports heroes... instead of the doctors, the lawyers, the engineers, the educators, the philosophers, the true artists, etc.

While things are much much better than they were even 20 years ago, there's still a problem here.

The truth also hurts. 2/3 of black marriages end in divorce. The vast majority of black children are born to single mothers.

But this is all the more reason to embrace strong examples of strong families of color in America. Be them fictional or presidential. :)

[Blasphemer]

84. For me, it's not intentional dismissiveness

I loved the show and I appreciate what it meant and why it was groundbreaking. I had a Black Teacher's Assistant who referenced an episode in class and was surprised when ALL of the mostly white students had watched the show. It was an American cultural phenomenon but also representative of a very 80's point of view. Yuppies ruled the world and those of us who were still part of the struggling classes were forgotten while the upper middle class "American Dream" was routinely paraded before us. In addition to the Cosby Show, a show like Family Ties was also a very successful show which featured an upper middle class household whose struggles were never financial. I enjoyed that show as well but never considered it reality based. I think my generation embraced a show like Roseanne as being more "real" because it was more relatable. I'm Black and I had a stable lower middle class/middle class home with two parents but we were not the Huxtables. It was wonderful entertainment but I can't say that I could relate to a family who could afford to buy a $10,000 dollar painting. I COULD relate to the Connors who struggled with paying their bills, had to buy food that was often more affordable than healthy, struggled with weight issues, had complicated mother-daughter relationships and had to deal with issues such as abuse and alcoholism. Roseanne was also groundbreaking and I appreciate both it and the Cosby Show for how they reflected different sides of the American experience and their unique contributions to American popular culture. If I think that Roseanne is more real, it is simply because of my personal experiences and not because of the races of the characters portrayed. I have a family member who loved the Cosby Show and never really liked Roseanne but then, her life was more in line with the Huxtables than mine was. I wouldn't say that she was dismissive of Roseanne. It's just that at the end of the day, she could not relate to the Connors the way that I did.

[Zenmaster]

86. I have no problem with that point of view.

The sad thing, for me, is seeing some of the vitriol and hate thrown at the Cosby show, as if black people SHOULDN'T have an example like that on TV.

As I said, the Cosby show wasn't the average lower middle class family, so they didn't represent average Americans...black or white, in that respect.