Explain It Again - BUT ... REAL ... S-L-O-W ...

[NanceGreggs]

… ‘cause I’m having a R-E-A-L problem understanding the concept.

And that leads me to believe that one of two things is going on here: (1) I am extremely slow on the up-take, or (2) you are not making any sense.

I appreciate the whole our guy lost thing – a circumstance that, by its very nature, is bound to incite anger, encourage a desire for revenge, and lead otherwise decent and intelligent people to glut themselves on sour grapes to the point of losing all common sense – along with their sense of perspective.

But what I am still struggling to understand is this whole anti-Christ thingy that’s been attributed to Democrats and liberals for decades, an epithet now squarely aimed at our president-elect, Barack Obama, with a vengeance that I seem to remember – and please, correct me if I am wrong – was once His and His alone – or so sayeth, or speaketh, or whatevereth the Lord God Almighty (who some pseudo-Christians might still vaguely recall from some sermon they heard in a land long ago and faraway, in the time before Jesus and his teachings became available in the Xtreme DVD edition, complete with extras, out-takes, and behind-the-scenes footage never before aired in the churches of the nation) might have said, at one time or another, when the MSM wasn't there to report it.

Yep, still strugglin’ here – struggling to understand how speaking up for middle-class workers and their right to a decent wage is an affront to the Sermon on the Mount (and if you haven’t checked it out lately, it’s worth a second read).

Still struggling to understand how promoting affordable healthcare for every American is a direct slap-in-the-face to the Nazarene, who pointed out that we are our brother’s keeper – and whether we’d applied for the job or not, it was expected that we’d at least give the idea some serious thought – and maybe even a little bit of effort.

Still strugglin’ here – trying to comprehend how the same people who claim to love The Man (ya know, the one who admonished His followers that as they do to the least among them, so they do unto Him) can’t get their heads around the concept of feeding the hungry and sheltering the homeless as something good Christians do and not as something you can slap the label of socialism on and dismiss out-of-hand, just because you’re looking for a loophole to crawl through without parting with a dime (and I’ll be damned if the right-wingers aren’t danglin’ that loophole – which has a strong resemblance to a noose – in front of every last greedy soul still lookin’ for a legal argument to present on Judgment Day.)

Still tryin’ – and not without a lot of effort – to comprehend how talking about diplomacy as a means to avert war, putting social safety-nets in place to catch the least among us, ensuring that an honest day’s work equals an honest day’s pay, encouraging dialogue rather than fingers-in-your-ears silence/ignorance, and promoting peace and understanding is anti-Christ behavior – but I am trying.

Maybe I’m the one who’s got it all wrong – and I am humble enough to accept that possibility. But it seems to me that putting our trust in the guy who is willing to encourage an entire nation – if not the entire world – to walk in the other guy’s shoes, and truly appreciate what he needs, is a step in the right direction.

It’s kind of like walking in the Shoes of the Fisherman – who some (but apparently not all) will recall from a previously-viewed videotape that is crying out for rewinding these days.

So just walk it – and stop talkin’ it down. Because what you’re talking is nonsense, and the way you walk is what is ultimately going to count.

And deep down inside, you know it.

[goclark]

1. Really fast I will K and R

Nailed it!

[akbacchus_BC]

3. Aw, you beat me, I wanted to be first this time. Good for you!

[goclark]

6. Loved the message ~ there is something for all of us

to think about ~

[alllyingwhores]

136. I'll explain it two you in one singular word "ABORTION"...

...that's all the majority of these dim-witted idiots fixate on. One singular issue that nullifies everything that is in their own self-interests and, at the same time, makes everything the Neof__ks do and stand for (against their own self-interests) A-F__KIN'-OK!

[akbacchus_BC]

2. NG, another wonderful post from you. K&R

[The Traveler]

4. Damn. Good. Rant.

(Yer good!)

Doubtless some preacher would, if he knew our minds, devote some measure of his time and energy to a black magickal practice he would call "imprecatory prayer" ... as if praying for harm to fall upon others bears any resemblance to the Jesus Christ teaching. Frankly, this kind of shit causes me to want to run to the alter and fire up some black candles of my own while calling upon the darker aspects of the Goddess and the Hunter ... but I digress.

Breathe deeply ... relax completely ... peace ... love ... forgiveness ... fuck it. I will never understand these people.

K&R

Trav

[The Traveler]

5. Duplicate

Frackin' browser ... I hate Microsoft.

Trav

[BrklynLiberal]

62. It is happening with Firefox as well...

[OldEurope]

7. It is the hope.

He who gives hope to the people in this world, shows them that they need not wait for the next world.

Thus they no longer are depressed and they no longer need the preachers to tell them how to reach the Paradise. So the preachers loose their influence and their power and money, too. Seeing this the preachers declare him, who gives hope to this world, to be the devil in disguise. The preachers hope that people are afraid of the devil and will give the preachers more money to pray for the poor souls.

[defendandprotect]

60. "Pie in the sky when you die..."

[Strathos]

103. WOW!

"He who gives hope to the people in this world, shows them that they need not wait for the next world."


I fuckin' love that. Is it a famous quote or is it yours?

[spag68]

117. directions

I know how to reach paradise. You go south on I-75 until you get to St. Petersburg, look west at sunset, you are there.

[SeattleGirl]

8. People like that embody what is wrong in this country and

in the world.

I've heard them call into radio talk shows and rush to the defense of rich greedy fuckers who would just as soon spit on their defenders as help them.

Boggles the mind.

[shraby]

9. Still being your excellent self I see, Nance!

A recommend to ya.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NanceGreggs]

11. Sorry, sweetie ...

... but the use of the word diluted (when what you obviously meant was "deluded") was a dead give-away.

But, hey, you tried (or should I say tryed) your best - and that's what really counts, right?

Say hello to the gang for me - and be sure and tell 'em how long you lasted in the World Where Spelling Actually Matters - along with other much more important things.

[Kokonoe]

31. Thank you for the spelling lesson.

Every bit helps. Even progressives need help spelling, but we remember best when its a fun lesson.

[mentalslavery]

83. No, that makes me dyslexic. What does your mis-interpreation

mean?

[NanceGreggs]

88. I sincerely apologize ...

I obviously did misinterpret what you were saying - and read it as pure snark.

I was wrong (hey, not the first time that's happened). I was overly-tired and suffering a bout of insomnia - that is the reason I was too quick on the trigger - but certainly not an excuse by any means.

Again, I apologize for my behaviour. I was offensive (actually, more like obnoxious) - and totally wrong.

[mentalslavery]

90. Its totally cool-big fan of your work

been reading you post for years. Just started commenting recently because I am writing a book on the political economy that I need to distribute, for free, on liberal blogs. Believe it or not, I have figured out what is going on here. This book will provide the an explanation the general public can understand. It will provide strategies and plans to deal with what we are facing. We have to get on the same page and this book will help us. So, I am attempting to get accounts on the different liberal blogs I have been reading so I can give it away. Im not crazy. I realize this sounds crazy. I publish-academically, and teach sociology at a university, but peer reviewed or publication-for-profit options will not lead to wide distributing. I want this to spread quickly to social justice organizations, non-profits, and other liberal organizations involved in social movements. The indirect ramifications of restructuring the market are massive. Don't get me wrong, this is not a pill. This is a plan that will change the world in the next 30-100 years if we start now, but tomorrow is the first day of the rest of our lives. So, why not us. The socio-political climate is right.

Ps-totally understand being tired-look at when I posted last night-finishing some ideas of value and had to teach at 8 am. Huh! Sometimes I wish I understood nothing. I hate feeling responsible to change the world, but I am, we are, and we will.

[NanceGreggs]

91. Thanks for being so gracious ...

... and I love this thought:

"I hate feeling responsible to change the world - but I am, we are, and we will."

Yes, we will.

[tclambert]

113. Dear moderator, any chance of putting message #10 back?

Judging by the replies to it, it was apparently a sarcastic or satirical essay that people misunderstood at first. But I missed it, so I don't know for sure. At any rate, I came in late and feel like I missed the set-up, so I can't appreciate the punchline(s).

Dear mentalslavery, satire has that drawback. A sizable percentage of people are born without that portion of their funny bone. You may have to resort to using the Smilies lookup table to find this entry: :sarcasm: (Or you can type the word sarcasm with colons before and after it.) It detracts from the humor a bit, but may save some confusion.

[mentalslavery]

135. Thanks for the advice. I am not good with the blogging skills

I just started blogging, so I don't know how to do all this yet. Don't know the norms for interaction yet. Basically, what I wrote was "B-U-L-L S-H-I-T" in the subject. Then I made some comment in the message section about how I also needed it explained slowly because the ideas of the deluded were difficult to understand. Don't remember the exact comment and did not realize I could save my comments to my journal. Anyway, I spelled it wrong and that gave of the wrong impression. I was actually pleased to see the responses. It told me that others in this forum are all over it and not putting up with anybodies shit!!!

[illuminaughty]

121. Hey, take a child pill. (sorry, my new favorite)

That's when it sucks to be on here in the middle of the night. Don't get to read deleted messages when they sometimes can be sooooo entertaining.

[bjobotts]

125. Oh yeah...you just don't get what republicans are sayin now...here it is...

From Driftglass:… "...My Party spent 30 years lying, cheating, and clawing our way to power and calling anyone who stood in our way a traitor.

To sieze power we methodically annihilated the very idea of political comity in America, and when we were at the peak of Gingrich-fever, we laughing at anyone who suggested that compromise was a virtue.

And once we achieved our goal of running every branch of government, we proceeded to destroy everything we touched. We mocked the dead and dying of New Orleans. Broke whole countries. Bankrupted the nation enriching a handful of plutocrats. Pissed away an international reputation it took fifty years of skill and patience to construct.

And now that we are falling into the abyss we created – now that all the consequence the hated Dirty Fucking Hippies warned us about are coming to pass – we’d like to, uh, move past partisanship and, uh, all get along.

OK?..."

Actually heard a republican strategist on tweety say "This country is center right...look, we believe in the family, in family values and so do the voters and that's how we know this is a conservative country. Obama's win was not a mandate for the left and it's agneda because the country still believes family values are
important..." etc. As if they have the monopoly on values. Bush was extreme right fanatic...big government replaced by big corporations, privatizing government for personal profiteering, turning our economy into a disaster from being overly greedy. These people aren't part of our democracy they just manipulate it while spouting religious hypocrisy. War, torture, spying, banning gay marriage...some values huh?

[TexasObserver]

12. Yeah, diluted!!

What is it about spelling that confounds you guys?

[Window]

17. Yet another addition to the "Freeper's Guide to Spelling for Morans."

[TexasObserver]

39. It's not just that they don't spell right. They don't use spell check, either.

You'd think if a person can't spell they would know it, and if given a chance to use spell check, would do so.

[SemperEadem]

76. it goes back to not giving a damn

being dumb as a post is a badge of honor for them.

[mentalslavery]

86. Check yourself

spell check did not catch it because both spellings are accurate, with different meanings. I am dyslexic, so I will often replace words or recognize mis-spelled words. I guess that makes me stupid, I hope the college students I teach don't find out. Oh, the "tolerance" of liberals will never be understood by radicals. Its called sarcasm, folks. Curious that I am attacked as the freeper, my comment deleted, it seems DU has is becoming troll focused. I am a troll, just not a conservative troll. I have been reading, but not commenting for 3 years. I have things that I am working on (social justice issues)and want to spread the work on liberal blogs. Are well just going to talk shit, or are we going to do something about it? That is the question.

For those of you who want to accuse me of Freeperhood-I can assure you my radical credentials are overwhelming. So, we can have that debated in public or private. For those of you who talk shit but don't want to back it up, I will enable my profile so that you can send me messages in private.

[rhett o rick]

109. They don't even know what spell check is. Wasn't needed to get their GED. nm

[Bernardo de La Paz]

118. "spell right" --> "spell correctly"

[mentalslavery]

85. Mis-interpretation

spell check did not catch it because both spellings are accurate, with different meanings. I am dyslexic, so I will often replace words or recognize mis-spelled words. I guess that makes me stupid, I hope the college students I teach don't find out. Oh, the "tolerance" of liberals will never be understood by radicals. Its called sarcasm, folks. Curious that I am attacked as the freeper, my comment deleted, it seems DU has is becoming troll focused. I am a troll, just not a conservative troll. I have been reading, but not commenting for 3 years. I have things that I am working on (social justice issues)and want to spread the work on liberal blogs. Are well just going to talk shit, or are we going to do something about it? That is the question.

For those of you who want to accuse me of Freeperhood-I can assure you my radical credentials are overwhelming. So, we can have that debated in public or private. For those of you who talk shit but don't want to back it up, I will enable my profile so that you can send me messages in private.

[The Doctor.]

97. LoL!

Welcome to DU... it can get a little, umm... Feisty here.

I've been accused of being an Anti-Christian, Homophobic, Right-Wing Bigot by some here. Really it just boils down to people being hyper-passionate about their pet issues. Those issues are usually quite serious, but everyone believes their issue is at the top of the list "For reasons that SHOULD be obvious".

I look forward to calling each-other trolls!

:hi:

[Lerrad]

140. Welcome to the DU....

Don't let them bother you. I can't spell very well either, and I don't give a shit, as long as everyone knows what I'm trying to say.

For the english majors miss spelled words stand out like a sore thumb, and it drives them crazy. I guess you could compare it to a carpenter that does a bad job installing your new flooring. Only in that case I would care.

[Lerrad]

139. "Morans"? Morons n/t

[madhawk]

65. spelling

it is an ignorant man that can only figure out one way to spell a word.
hawk

[TexasObserver]

80. Which made for TV movie did you steal that line from?

[Vickers]

132. Mark Twain

:P

[illuminaughty]

122. Takes more than one working brain cell. n/t

[Lochloosa]

19. Mods, can we play with this one?

:popcorn:

[treestar]

23. Your post does not explain the disconnect between Jesus'

teachings and your attitude that helping your fellow man is "bullshit." But then you right wingers never do have anything to defend your positions on any issues, because you are hiding your true position.

But we know the answer. You do not in the least believe in Jesus or his teachings. It's just a cover, representing European culture and the origins of that particular religion's spread, "Western" culture, or, more particularly, the white race.

Not that you would help poor white people, either. But you hide behind your identity of "Christian" to mean "white." A place where white people can meet and not have to see all those brown people. The church. Inside that church, the love of Christ is not preached, only the hatred of others not like us. That's why you manage to claim to be so religious while being apparently unfamiliar with the basic teachings of your religion.

[mentalslavery]

82. I was refering to right wingers as making a bullshit argument

not the poster, I like and agree with all your points

[JeffR]

25. Don't be discouraged by the previous responses to your post.

So far it seems that 5 people have missed your meaning by 180 degrees, but it's pretty clear to me at least where you're directing your accusation of bullshit, and it's not to the original post. Hang in there with DU - it's not always this knee-jerk. There's just a lot of troll paranoia left over from a tense and high-stakes election season.

[mentalslavery]

77. Thanks for the support and I no, I can not spell

spell check did not catch it because both spellings are accurate, with different meanings. I am dyslexic, so I will often replace words or recognize mis-spelled words. I guess that makes me stupid, I hope the college students I teach don't find out. Oh, the "tolerance" of liberals will never be understood by radicals. Its called sarcasm, folks. Curious that I am attacked as the freeper, my comment deleted, it seems DU has is becoming troll focused. I am a troll, just not a conservative troll. I have been reading, but not commenting for 3 years. I have things that I am working on (social justice issues)and want to spread the work on liberal blogs. Are well just going to talk shit, or are we going to do something about it? That is the question.

For those of you who want to accuse me of Freeperhood-I can assure you my radical credentials are overwhelming. So, we can have that debated in public or private. For those of you who talk shit but don't want to back it up, I will enable my profile so that you can send me messages in private.

[JeffR]

87. I'm glad you're hanging in.

The paranoia here is pretty over the top when it comes to low post counts, and sarcasm - no matter how obvious - is misapprehended here routinely. I'll point out to the original poster (my wife) that she was the first to make this mistake on your response.

[mentalslavery]

92. The post on my account! Thanks, that helps

Thanks, I am doing a terrible job making friends. I am new here and did not realize people check that. Ha! probably not a good time to be abstract and sarcastic. Trying to get involved because I have a book that I am giving away that is going to be very helpful for those who are concerned about economic social justice. I don't feel right about publishing-for-profit right now. I figured spreading it via liberal blogs would be one good method among many. 3 months away. Trying to get it done by jan 20th.

[chknltl]

101. You made a friend right here! Welcome to the DU mentalslavery

:toast: and :pals: A Sociology instructor you say? That right there earns my high regards! It is common here in the DU to praise our Veterans but rarely do we praise our teachers. Our teachers deserve our deepest gratitude too! You and everyone else in that profession certainly have my gratitude, that's for sure!

Good luck on your book, I hope to see it here in our little forum someday soon, who knows, perhaps we may be able to help you change the world! :grouphug:

[mentalslavery]

134. i will need your help

I cant do it alone. I was so excited in 2005 to discover the online liberal community. From a sociological perspective it is very interesting because we can coordinate information into action and ultimately solve social problems. These problems can be big or small. For example the poster who was posting about trash being thrown in someones yard by a Freeper. The suggestions provided a solution! Of course there are many examples of blogs exposing lies of the right wing and getting that information to the mainstream media. One of the benefits I see is that we are all spread out and can moving information to social justice organizations. In the past if I had some information I thought might be helpful to social justice organizations I had to have knowledge of them. Now information flows outward from central locations such as these blogs. Therefore, the book I am working on can be distributed by those downloading it and giving it to any organization they see fit. Additionally, the content of the book is judged in and of itself, not because I am a big name or because it is published in some "respected" journal.


In terms of the book, I will be giving it away here and other places. Another comment in this post by ekwhite makes a good point refering to GDH or Gross Domestic Happiness. Sociologist have designed alternative measures such as this. Part of the book will include a critical analysis of the measures we are currently using as well as explaining the alternative measures that are available. My hope is that wide distribution will empower people. If the majority of the american people realize that other measures work better for them, they can use them. We are told that the economy is "good", but the measures don't relate to our lives. Then it is not good. We need information to fight back with. In fact, most of the timewhen the economy is "bad", that is really when it is good for the majority of us, because growth is slowing and corporate profits are down. Both of these things occur when working wages are rising. So, if your not playing the market, which most of us are not, then the economy is good. Right now, the economy is bad for everyone because we are experiencing crisis at the macro level and the attempted corrective measures are corporate megers or relocation. Both equal job loss for us. The solutions provided in the book will empower us to push our representatives to make these changes. It will also provide the information necessary to argue back then we are told that "it is not possible" or when we are told that "it just does not work that way".

[JeffR]

102. It's tricky navigating the roiling waters of DU sometimes.

Election years are the toughest, even triumphant ones.

Good luck to you with your project. There are some people here who are very interested in that subject. The Poverty forum in particular might be worth checking into:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=230

Welcome to DU!

[illuminaughty]

123. Welcome to DU!

Yes, hang in there. I can remember being afraid to post after religiously reading here for years.
It is a community of quick witted, mega smart personalities that are a little paranoid because of your "joining" date.

1000 posts put you in a safe zone (I don't even have that after four years)but you'd be surprised how many trolls come on and get a quick post tally...only to admit later that they're a fraud. Just had one the other night with more than a thousand posts.

Like the name, "mental slavery"

[crispini]

29. Bwahhahhahahahha!

"diluted" -- epic win! :eyes:

[The Wizard]

13. You expected something different?

These nuts who hide behind the flag and use the Bible as a bludgeon are always angry at everyone who doesn't look and think the way they do. They're programmed to hate.
If you recall, some of them were calling for Clinton's impeachment the day after he was inaugurated in 1993. The temper tantrum continues.
We used to have a word for them. A moran by any other name is a moran.

[caseycoon]

14. K&R EXCELLENT! n/t

[saltpoint]

15. The Republican far-right fundie nutbags have never

represented the tenets of the ministry of Jesus.

Very likely they don't like being told this.

Very likely they don't hang out with evolved beings much either.

Which is why I like this post so much. It's written by an evolved being and implicates the fake Christians who flood the GOP voter rolls.

Thanks you, Nance. And don't let up for a minute.

[katnip]

16. Well...

...if you believe that Christ is money (or at least only FOR people with money), and the group that has been in power for the past 12 years redistributed your god upward (where it belongs, of course), and this new upstart of a president wants to spread it back to those of us who actually WORK for it, I can totally understand how he will be (mis)perceived as the anti-Christ.

For the life of me I have never understood why the desire of the middle-class to actually reap the rewards of their efforts (as we are taught from a very young age) is always considered socialism, but when it's the wealthy actually reaping (or is that raping?) it is considered capitalism.

Perhaps when the GDP in this country also counts the personal happiness of Americans, we will see a change in perceptions of what is important.

Barack gets it.

[Kokonoe]

34. I'm with you.

And I like your name.:D,

[But....]

37. Oh yea...

it's all about the money for them:hi:

[Mira]

74. For a minute in reading your wise response I thought you were Nance

- you get it, too - and I kick and recommend this wonderful post

edited to change one word

[ekwhite]

107. I believe the Dalai Lama has proposed the use of GDH

Gross Domestic Happiness. That sounds like a better measurement of a country's wealth than GDP.

[illuminaughty]

124. Great post. Welcome!

[Window]

18. K/R.

:kick:

[humbled_opinion]

20. Excellent points all...

My impression is those people that rail against Liberals saying they are godless is in large part because there are agnostics and atheists and non-christian believers that reside in this country.

The Christians were taught that THOSE people speak for the Democratic party and that THOSE people are trying to take God away from Christians.

Again the issue is about Choice. The ignorant do not want anyone to have a choice about anything. They want strict adherence to thier Nazi like covenants.

I am full of Hope that some of those blindly led people are beginning to wake up now.

[Coexist]

21. remember when Gordon Gecko was considered immoral?

not in republican America. He is the Way the Truth and the Light.

MINE!1!GET YOUR HANDS OFF!!GET YOUR OWN!!1!

[tclambert]

137. "Greed is good" was based on the attitudes and speeches of real businessmen.

Ivan Boesky said, "Greed is right." Many businessmen and Republicans love to quote Ayn Rand's rehashing of Adam Smith's theory that if everyone acts according to their own self interest, that will produce the best outcome for everyone, all unaware that this premise has been proven mathematically incorrect. John Nash, the subject of A Beautiful Mind was one of the mathematicians who did so. Remember in that movie he said, "Adam Smith needs revision!" That was his big breakthrough. Albert Tucker's Prisoner's Dilemma is another example that disproves Smith. Examples abound in the field of traffic flow. Selfish behavior causes traffic jams in many instances.

What amazes me is the party that thinks "Greed is good" also claims to be the Christian party. But Jesus wasn't too keen on greed. In Christian tradition, greed is one of the seven deadly sins.

When I think about this I always end up shaking my head and muttering, "What fools these mortals be."

[islandmkl]

22. i wrap myself in the flag..yet i know little of the FULL Constitution and its bases....

i cling to my Bible...yet the most basic messages of the New Testament-Jesus tenets i ignore...or, at best, reduce to 'God is on my side'...

i am part of the 95% of our nation who is middle-to-bottom class...yet i think that the wealthy are the key to any success that i, and therefore my country, can possibly experience economically...

i know i feel stressed and somewhat suppressed in fully enjoying the 'American experience'...yet i feel depriving great numbers of our citizens ANY opportunity to enjoy that experience somehow enhances my opportunities...

“He who knows not and knows not he knows not: he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not: he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows: he is asleep - wake him.
He who knows and knows he knows: he is wise - follow him.” - attributed to Omar Khayam

[tclambert]

138. Doesn't that miss a case? He who knows not but fervently believes he knows

is a religious fanatic - fear him.

[MyOwnPeace]

24. Of course...........

it's difficult for you to understand - because you're thinking like a "community organizer!"

Nailed it again, Nanc - way to go!

By the way, those tapes are "not available in any store - now is your chance to act! For only ............" (probably a commercial they saw on Faux News!).

[Enthusiast]

26. Excellent, and thank you!

Much of Christianity today has very little to do with Christ's message. I know that's exactly what you said. I felt the need to say it again, lol. We all need to say it more and say it loud.

[baldguy]

27. Man makes his gods in his own image.

The American Taliban is consumed with hatred & prejudices & insecurities - so they apply those same characteristics to their Supply-Side Jesus.

If you're trying to find reasons for their social & political stances by studying the life story of that handyman from the Galilee, you'll fail.

[SnowCritter]

28. It's because they're "Paulites"

not Christians.

It seems to me that they base their entire socio-economic veiw on the Apostle Paul's second letter to the Thessalonians, verse 3:10. (There are many translations and versions. Those interested can go here)

It has also been my observation that the "Paulites" ignore the actual words of Christ found in the Gospels. The first four books of the New Testament are almost totally ignored by them. If the birth of Christ wasn't chronicled in the Gospels, they would probably have no use for them at all.

[BrklynLiberal]

68. Yes! They use the name Jesus, but it is not his teachings that they follow..

It would seem that those who preach the loudest about "anti-Christ" are themselves taking the name of Jesus in vain.

There are a lot of quotes and ideas here:

http://www.profoundwisdom.com/perverted.htm

The following are Quotes on the Falsity of Paulism:
Thomas Jefferson said "Paul was the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."
Albert Schweitzer said "Paul avoids quoting the teaching of Jesus"
Jeremy Bentham wrote: "It rests with every professor of the religion of Jesus to settle within himself to which of the two religions, that of Jesus or that of Paul, he will adhere."
Carl Jung stated ""Paul hardly ever allows the real Jesus of Nazareth to get a word in." in US News and World Report Apr, 22/1991, p.55
Hyam Maccoby (Talmudic Scholar) stated "Paul, not Jesus, was the founder of Christianity as a new religion which developed away from both normal Judaism and the Nazarene variety of Judaism." in The Mythmaker, Barnes & Noble, p. 16
Cites: 1, 2, priceofliberty.com/paul.htm, on Faith wihtout Works, Modern Essenes on Paulism, More Modern Essenes on Paulism
Paul claimed to be Apostle - Asian churches said NO - 2 Timothy 1:15, Rev. 2 & 3, Eph. 1:1,
Thomas Hardy said "the new testament was less a Christiad than a Pauliad."

Paul/Saul wrote almost 2/3 of the New Testament.
Some also say that Saul was hired by Rome to keep track of and thwart Yeshua and his followers, and that he did this by taking over Christianity and redirecting it.
Paul wrongfully called himself an Apostle to get a title to take over Christianity.

[chalky]

99. So bottom line, Paul was the Karl Rove of the Christian movement? I can see that.

n/t

[SemperEadem]

78. thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

(did I thank you?)

It's because they're "Paulites" It has also been my observation that the "Paulites" ignore the actual words of Christ found in the Gospels. The first four books of the New Testament are almost totally ignored by them. If the birth of Christ wasn't chronicled in the Gospels, they would probably have no use for them at all.

Right on the mark with that!!!

[chiefofclarinet]

30. Here's the scoop: There are Christians and "Jesus freaks"

And they are nowhere close to the same.

Christians are direct followers of the words and teachings of Jesus the Nazarene. "Jesus freaks" ignore the Scriptural version of the man and morph the image of Jesus the Nazarene into an ancient version of themselves: greedy, right-wing, and purely crazy.

Christians believe the Golden Rule is "Love thy neighbor as thy self." Jesus freaks believe the Golden Rule is "Mine! Mine! My precious..."

Christians believe that the Sermon on the Mount is a great kernel of beliefs for any good person to follow. Jesus freaks don't remember any Sermon on any Mount.

Christians believe that the Jewish Shema (O Hear, O Israel, you shall love your God with all your heart, and all your soul, and all your might.) is the greatest thing in the Jewish Law. Jesus freaks believe God "condemning" "teh gays" is the greatest thing in the Jewish Law.

Christians believe the Almighty is concerned about the big picture. Jesus freaks believe that the Almighty is concerned just about themselves.

So, that is the scoop these people. They aren't Christians; they are Jesus freaks. And because they are Jesus freaks, we can entirely ignore anything they have to say.

[BrklynLiberal]

69. I think that the Christians follow Jesus, and the Jesus freaks are Paulites.

[chiefofclarinet]

94. That sounds about right

I was never impressed with Paul. He was a major-league jerk to the Christians, and after a "conversion" he becomes the "thirteenth Apostle" and the unofficial Christian spokesman, even though he never met Jesus of Nazareth. I always thought his epistles were trite and grating. He reminds too much of fundies for my comfort.

[BrklynLiberal]

96. Here is my post saying exactly what you said...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7847223&mesg_id=7850362

[Chowlie]

32. We already had the Antichrist

Ronald Wilson Reagan. Count the letters. 6, 6, 6

[cooolandrew]

33. Let alone their Jesus was most likely to look like Barack than their portrayal >

considering the location of Jeruselum.

[kleec]

35. Yes!

Thank you for your wonderful 'rants' I love them. They represent so much of what I think and often say, which is sometimes frowned upon. I am a recovering catholic, which means of course that I have to stay away as that particular teaching is toxic to me. I manage to do this quite well and have for several years. I also stay away from any religion that tells me how I am supposed to think. I think what I think, like it or not! I am also quite able to determine on my own just how I see reality and how I see what is actually being done by some of these 'religions'. From what I have observed many just have to keep that money rolling on in to keep their leaders in a life style they have become accustomed to. What I fail to see is a true spirituality. By that I mean I see many reaching out to help only one another within the confines of their sect. I don't see a lot of actual reaching out to the community which I often see in people who are not connected with any particular religion, but who are leading quite spiritual lives by respecting others, the earth, the world population, and who believe it is more important to care about those who are in need at times in their lives. I really like 'evolved' individuals those, who continue to be in love with growing, changing, helping others and caring about how we treat our earth and air. Those that I enjoy being around do not worship money and things, but really value how to work together to make our place on earth a better place for as many as possible. Now, that is what any religion should be doing, that is if they want to be seriously considered as a 'religion'.



:D

[Chowlie]

36. I know you covered this already, Nance

but here are my favs, in that same vein (action versus words):

Matthew 25

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Matthew 5

A Tree and Its Fruit
15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'


Revelation 20

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Whew. I'm done.
I have always believed the world would be a better place if Christians would read their book.

[Armstead]

38. What you have to understand is there is a Catch 22 in their logic

There is a certain No-Win aspect to their interpretation.

They believe that the Anti-Christ will, initially, seem like a wonderful leader. He will be an appealing person, and bring the world together and do great things at first.

THEN he will pull the rug out from everyone.

Therefore, the better and more positive a leader is, the more likely he is to be the Anti-Christ. (Unless he is a right-wing Republican, of course.)

[CJCRANE]

46. They don't seem to have noticed

that we already had Bush with 90% approval after 9/11, with nearly the whole world on his side ("We are all Americans now")...

A "Man of God" according to his supporters...

who then proceeded to destroy America from the inside and bankrupt the global economy.

If I believed in the concept then I would suggest that Bush was the perfect candidate for the AC.

[azmouse]

40. Yet again, an amazing post!

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for putting in words what I feel in my heart.

[crickets]

41. Wonderful, Nance. Spot on. -nt

[apnu]

42. Atheist checking in!

Well, written, bravo. I enjoyed your post very much.

I have no problem with religion, and people who choose to believe in religion. That's an individual's private business and I have no right, or desire, to look into it.

However, I loath religion -- not because of religion but the people in religion. That is to say the folks running it, speaking about it, and generally telling everybody what to think about it.

These are the same people who take the highly liberal statements of Jesus Christ and turn them into something Pontius Pilate would say, or any other villain in the Bible. I've hardly ever seen Christian priests, monks and pastors actually say and respect their God's teachings, spanning all the major sects of Christianity I've run across. Same for Islam. The mouth pieces of the religion are constantly at odds with what I know of the religion. And for that, I loathe religion.

So, to answer your post, from where I sit, the disconnect between Jesus' meaning and what the spokespeople for Jesus say is just a bunch of petty losers attempting to control the whatever section of the population they can con into listening to them for their own aims. And that the god they speak for... well is secondary to their perverse, debauchedness, if they care at all about their god, which I suspect they do not.

For me, the litmus test of a Christian is this: If you're for the harm of any independent living thing, for any reason, at any time, then you're not a Christian, you're a liar.

[rucky]

43. Don't be fooled by his charms!

Only the inarticulate and unvisionary can lead us to salvation! He who haseth clearly thought-out ideas are deceivers!

[pipi_k]

44. OH MY GOD what a concept...

A man who is promoting Christian values!!



and he's being bashed at every turn by the very people who claim they live by those same values

the same people who elected Bush based on some nebulous concept called "Compassionate Conservatism" (which, IMO anyway, implies that Conservatism is inherently NOT compassionate) and then stood by silently while he acted like a brutal dictator...


Oh, how I would love to rub their noses in their own little pisspuddles of smug self-promotion...

but they probably wouldn't understand


WWJD?

whatever they decide he'd do, based on their own crappy code of "ethics"

[BlueMTexpat]

45. Spot on, Nance!

:yourock: :woohoo:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

47. My dear Nance!

Ah, spot on as usual!

Nothing to add, since my brain is still asleep today, but

K&R

:hug:

[NeoGreen]

48. "Pseudo-Christians"

What a great discription for those who promote Hate over Peace...

They're Pseudo-Christians ..., kinda' like real Christians, only with Hate inside...

Is this a meme worth promoting?

[Scurra]

49. Thanks

A long-time lurker here (and worse, I'm from the UK!) popping out for a moment to say thanks for this excellent column (and all your others - one of the reasons I check this wonderful site out.)

As a Christian, I understand exactly where you are coming from - and it's important to note that the same "problem" exists within Islam as well - many of my Muslim friends are equally appalled by the public perception of their religion, which bears very little connection to what they understand of their own faith. (And yes, as a result, I have met "Christians" who think that I can't be one because I am friends with Muslims rather than attempting to convert them to the "true faith"...)

And the basic problem is that the middle-ground simply isn't that interesting. "Someone is nice to someone else" doesn't make the news. Having just watched (from the side-lines) an election campaign that was all about portraying the other side as being on the extreme (and yes, both sides indulged in it), and the continuing over-hyping that the MSM indulges in, to ensure that we all live in a climate of fear, I can't see things getting much better soon, despite all our hopes for Change. Still, it'll be nice to be surprised. :)

[BrklynLiberal]

70. You are right. Every belief system has its extremists, and it is those

extremists that attract the attention of the world, and make others think that everyone in that belief system is like the extremists.
It is somewhat ironic that the true believer, the peacemakers, the ones that want to reach out to others in friendship are the ones that are rarely heard about. If they are mentioned, they are looked upon as the exception, rather than the rule.

[FatDave]

50. In modern Christianity, a Christian's actions are inconsequential.

The sole determiner of salvation is the acceptance of Jesus. I'm not sure what verse they point to to support this (but I do know there are several that say the opposite) but the prevalent belief is that if you've accepted Jesus, you're going to Heaven, and what you do in between makes no difference whatsoever.

For example, Hitler was a Christian, and therefore was saved. The people he slaughtered were not Christians, and therefore suffer in eternal damnation regardless of the lives they led. I have put this to hardcore evangelicals and had them tell me that yes, that is true in principle, though they usually will try to say Hitler wasn't really a Christian. Which is silly, because by their own Criteria, all you have to do to be a real Christian is to believe in Jesus.

But anyway, given the ease with which they are saved and the inconsequence of their actions, is it any wonder that modern Christians resemble their deity so little?

[cliffordu]

51. Yep. What you said. K&R.

[WCGreen]

52. Communist.

K&R

[Lilicat]

53. so many Christians...

...so little Christ

[Wetzelbill]

54. The GOP is about as far away from Jesus's words in the Beatitudes as

anybody could get. I've done my share of bible learnin' and I know a bunch of Pharisees when I see 'em. :)

[my2sense]

55. I've been thinking this for years

Thank for articulating it so clearly.

[changemonger]

56. Good post.

It's the ultimate paradox to see people who call themselves Christians support the right-wing agenda.

[intaglio]

57. Excellent! and worth reminding people of FSTDT

or Fundies Say the Darndest Things http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/default.aspx?date=2008/11&archive=1

Recent examples
=================================
If Obama is a Christian, then God may as well do away with Hell and let every muderer, rpaist, etc into Heaven too

it talks about the fall of the world in Revelations...how a Muslim takes over in one of the most powerful countries...and guess what...look here...Obama is Muslim.
=================================
the NOI prophesied the final muhommed (a muslim) would come into the world from the union of a white female and black male based on their interpretation of the story of Mary Magdelin and Jesus Christ; being white and black respective. Obama fulfills this.
=================================
Obama hails from chicago whose zipcode is 60606 (do you see the three sixes ?)

Obama would be a "black" president in the "white" house (satan is described as black in attribute and who seeks to take over the white mansion known as heaven).

Obama's first name is JEWISH! which means blessed .

Obama is MUSLIM
=================================
Dancing is a popular form of celebration and partying by all ethnicities. But why is Barack Obama rarely seen dancing, or even allowing and attending dancing. Perhaps I've missed it (please let me know if I have). I know, there was one highly staged politically correct dance with Ellen DeGeneris as Obama was catering to her audience. But where's the rest?

One explanation is that the Islamic sharia disfavors dancing.
=================================

and there is much, much more I am afraid

[JDwho]

58. Hey Nance, n/t, as always...

I'm a Christian, and have never been so embarrassed by the church or by right wing christian extremists, as I have been lately. What you hear "so called" Christians say about Obama is utter nonsense, that fantastically enough, has been much ingrained into their minds by a man or woman they should be able to trust, their pastor. Pastors have no business preaching politics and any that do should be asked/required to leave their position. That is not what they've been called to do.

Obama demonstrates all of the characteristics of a Christian. He is merciful, giving, forgiving, and he is his brother's keeper.He values the least of us and wants to give to the least of us. I don't know him personally, but you will know a believer by his or her fruits. I voted for Obama. I live in the South. I have had to deal with this anti-Christ bull for quite some time, and the rhetoric isn't slowing much, post-election.

My faith has been questioned by some in my community, due to my avid support of Obama. I've had many debates, and have tried to appeal to the reason and logic that must exist somewhere inside their minds. I'm now convinced that it may not exist in their minds. I'm also convinced that they should all surrender their driver's licenses, since logic and reason should be present while operating heavy machinery.

In reference to another post, here on your thread, by FatDave. Acceptance of Christ is not all there is to modern Christianity. Of course, that is considered the initial step, but afterward there is to be a change in one's mind, heart, and spirit. A person is changed for the better. Anyone can call themselves a Christian (FatDave mentioned Hitler), but if the fruits of that acceptance are not evident, then they didn't accept Christ.
I'm not judging, I'm just looking at Hitler's barren tree. No, I'm not saying that salvation is earned, either. Just that without any indication of mercy, love, compassion, forgiveness, empathy, and helping those in need, (just to name a few); no such salvation took place.
Again, not judging. Just looking at that hate/fear mongering, barren tree.

I'm so glad people are speaking out against these right wingers, just remember, some of us are pretty good people (or try our best to be) and our faith is important to us. And we're pretty ticked about what those others are doing and saying in God's name.

Thanks, Nance...you're a prolific writer and I always look for your posts.

[defendandprotect]

59. The FLAG and the BIBLE waving confuses and blinds a lot of people --!!!

[Laurab]

61. K&R Truly he's being called the "antichrist" by some .

I heard it with my own ears. I have a friend who thinks she's a born-again Christian, and we never talk politics, or we wouldn't be friends. I also don't think she bothers to vote. Last night, however she congratulated me on Obama's win, and proceeded to tell me that a friend of hers wondered if he was the antichrist, but she reassured her he's not. Her reason was that the antichrist is going to be from Greece or something, not because she liked Obama.

I basically said "oh I used to think it was bush, but now I think it's Cheney", and we quickly changed the subject. Really, though, after thinking about it, it pissed me off so much that I wanted to call her back - I didn't because I know better though. This girl is a parrot for her husband, but only in politics and religion. Her comments are out of ignorance, and as long as she's with him, she'll never think for herself. Her actions are rarely, if ever, those of a Christian, and I've always taken the "born again" stuff with a pound of salt.

When I heard the "antichrist" mentioned, I truly thought it was a joke or something, but since Nance included it in her OP, apparently it's really being bandied about. I can't get over the fucking stupidity of these "psuedo" christians, who wouldn't know REAL Christianity if it slapped them in the face.

:shrug:

[bjobotts]

126. Antichrist??? Christ was a liberal...Obama is the "most liberal senator"

[bjobotts]

127. Sorry but an "antichrist" would have to be anti liberal, believe in war, torture...

[bjobotts]

128. greed and taking away our rights...oh wait...oh wow...I think I'm getting something on this antichri

[Laurab]

130. You can't argue with these people.

I learned that a long time ago. There are true Christians in the world, and then there are people who call themselves "born again Christians". I don't know many "born again", but the ones I do know give real Christians a bad name.

I'm sure there are REAL born-again Christians, who walk the walk, and don't only talk the talk, but they're not the ones who vote for the "pseudo Christian" repukes that Nance wrote about.

[Flirtus]

63. Really fast, I'm sharing this with the family

and ruining their Christmas.

Thank you very much.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

64. They are against forced charity through government and for individual private charity:

Conservative christians are against forced charity through government.

They are for individual private charity, to causes of their own choosing.

A commonly cited statistic is that conservatives give more to charity than liberals. I'm curious about this statistic to see if it is a total dollar amount (skewed by rich givers), an average amount (skewed by rich givers) or a median amount (much more representative). Further, it would be even more useful to know the figures as a percentage of income and as a percentage of disposable income. If someone can post a link to an in-depth discussion of this issue, I'd be interested.

[BrklynLiberal]

72. Do you think they would call the corporate bailouts charity or welfare??

They are such hypocrites....

[Bernardo de La Paz]

116. Many of them call the bailouts "corporate welfare"

[Javaman]

66. Simple: never underestimate the people to vote against their own best interests. nt

[defendandprotect]

67. Just an after thought ...

Remember that all of the world's major religions used to teach reincarnation --

and without that element to consider..........?

[beac]

71. K&R! Brilliant, as always. n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

73. Thank you Nance. Not merely food for thought, but a banquet.

[SemperEadem]

75. Two words to help you understand, Nance:

false prophets.

These people follow false prophets... they follow "the Gospel of Supply-Side Jesus".

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/17_franken.html

[JetCityLiberal]

79. Another gem Nance

:thumbsup:

Paul

[debunkthelies]

81. K&R

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: BRAVO!

[abumbyanyothername]

84. Well look at it this way Nance . . .

If a dude was promisin' to do everything that THE DUDE promised to do . . .

And at the same time would stay out of your bedroom . . .

And treat you like a fully grown, responsible, intelligent human being . . .

Which would you choose?

[hangman86]

89. Having trouble understanding? Allow Stephen Colbert to clear it up!

This is an excerpt from www.wikiality.com, his own version of Wikipedia:

"Holy Mother Church’s opposition to abortion, stem cell research, euthanasia, abortion, gay marriage, and abortion makes it clear a vote for George W. Bush is like a vote for Jesus."

"Interestingly, the Church has been silent on many of the issues important to the Democratic Party, such as the war, the death penalty, poverty, the environment, discrimination, genocide, global arms trade, human rights, immigration, jobs, and worker’s rights. It is clear that the Holy Spirit does not give a crap about these things."

He's speaking of the Catholic church in this one, but I think we can safely lump in many other denominations and their Conservative followers as well.

[electricD]

93. been saying the same thing here

I've been saying this same stuff for quite a long time here in my little redneckville of the south. Where supposedly, alot of people call themselves followers of Christ. The same people that claim that they love the Lord but, in the same breath say that they'd love to see some one they see as the least bit different from them to be banished or quarantined so that their "society" would be a better place. Never mind helping out some one in need, that's for suckers. You know, that guy with the sign at the intersection is just going to use that money you give them to just go buy beer. I can't quite wrap my head around this anti-christ/socialistic thing they see either.

BTW, Nance, I've lurked in the shadows on this place for quite a long time and read MANY of your writtings. EVERY TIME I read a new one, I have to say that you are one of the MOST eloquent ones when it comes to putting words down. Love what a do, don't change a thing.

electricD

[TrogL]

95. I AM THE ANTI-CHRIST

Sorry, I really, really couldn't resist this one even though I've been trying to cut back.

Also, I was wrong, "antichrist" does appear in the Bible, but only four times and only in John eg. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=2&version=48).

Little children, it is the last time. And as ye have heard that Antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists, whereby we know that this is the last time.

The problem is that John has much more important things to say in the same chapter. (vv. 10-11)

He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is no occasion for stumbling in him.

But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

[Fire Walk With Me]

98. Even on a non-religious level, they are unwilling to see themselves.

After they stole the 2000 election and demanded no recounts, they were quick to call us "crybabies". Now is their chance to be stoic, and they aren't.

[GeorgeGist]

100. Jesus sounds like a socialist.

[Strathos]

104. Hey, I like it

I'm not a regular here on anything and have gotten called a "freeper" by many of these "nice" folks. It seems some of them are as suspicious or more suspicious than the actual freepers.

I hope you're sincere and if so I'll say thank you for that post it was great.

As for you who are so quick to jump, settle the fuck down. Don't take on the bad habits of the Right. We're liberals, we're supposed to be a little more accepting.

[elleng]

105. For Information,

to MAYBE 'understand,' PBS documentary about lee atwater, boogie man, on Frontline tonight (9:00 est.)

Atwater was one of the makers of 'black is white' repug mo, which took over repug party earlier and is still 'working.'

Thanks for question.

[puebloknot]

106. Thus sayeth THE NANCE, with irony and aplomb! nt

[nolabear]

108. Amen

Preach it, Sister!

I'm serious, actually. You expressed something we DO all know, that a Godawful (literally, as it turns out) lot of people hide some unconscionable feelings, ones that can't be justified in any real-world way, behind a whole cloth pseudo-Christian attitude that is a remarkable combination of selective belief and selective denial. It's seamless, it's ego syntonic, and for that reason it's terrifying. There's nothing you can do about it, except outlive it, I fear.

Good work.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

110. Nance,

I hate getting in on the comments this late in the game. I read your fine OP early today but had too much to do to comment.

I am an Atheist. I have studied the major religions and came to the conclusion that man indeed created a god to explain all things he could not understand. If Jesus was real, he was a selfless person who championed the down and out, the dregs of society. As you point out, The Sermon on the Mount should be given another look by self proclaimed "Christians" because all that that one simple mans teachings are to be found within that one story.

Great job Nance.

Thank you.

[tclambert]

115. Gilligan, I'm always hoping on Lost,

they will find a skeleton in a red shirt with a white hat nearby.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

119. Why

do you hate me?

[ddeclue]

111. Mess with a thumper's mind by quoting Matthew back to them...

:rofl:

[Political_Junkie]

112. Awesome, as usual

[tclambert]

114. The liberal community should not have allowed the conservatives to claim Christians.

That whole "religious right" movement should have been quashed early on. Jesus was clearly a progressive, and absolutely NOT conservative. He challenged the conservative establishment at every turn. The "religious right" seemed more like an attempt to morally defend the meanest policies of the Republican party. Jesus was only mean one time, when he chased moneychangers out of the temple. (Which party do you think those moneychangers belonged to?)

It was a serious political mistake to allow the Republican party to assert they were the Christian party without immediately and continually challenging that. Whenever they try to claim a constituency that should not belong to them, Democrats should actively fight back, and not assume obviously ludicrous rationalizations won't fool anyone. You CAN fool some of the people some of the time. I know people who voted for George W. Bush TWICE!

I'd like to see the Democratic party actively recruit Christians, actively argue that "people with your values belong on this side of the aisle. That side is for the Republican Pharisees."

[Norrin Radd]

120. Yep. Hypocrisy is the cornerstone of conservatism.

[Gman]

129. Here's the deal...

the fundies think the New Testament is an appendix to the main and most important Old Testament. That's the one that Jules quotes from to Brett when he says, "...and I will strike down with great vengeance and furious anger..." (actually Jules' quote really isnm't in the Bible, but I digress.) It's the Old Testament that the fundies are stuck in. It's the Old Testament that drives them to be willing to sacrifice this country if necessary for Israel. Then since they really weren't happy with Jesus, they skip all the way over to Revelations to find ways to get Jesus to do a do-over so He'll come strike down Democrats and anyone else they don't like.

[SavageDem]

131. You know it, girlfren.

I can't count the times I've had this same argument with good ol' God-fearin' (self-proclaimed) "Christians." Christianity, to this crowd, is cherry-picking a few not-very-clear verses of Leviticus translated from Aramaic and interpreting the hell out of it to support their dimwitted, Neanderthal (although that is an insult to Neanderthals, which isn't an issue to this crowd, as Neanderthals never existed in their minds, as they pre-date their imcomprehensible view of the Earth's lifespan...) take on sexuality, homosexuality, morality, et al. And ignoring anything else in the Bible that contradicts, contravenes, confounds, or confuses. Except John 3:16 (New Bud commercial: "Here's to you, Mr. End-zone small-minded uneducated homophobic selfish Palin-lovin' John 3:16-poster waving guy.")

I mean, that stuff about loving your neighbor as yourself (Jesus' second greatest commandment), taking care of the poor and sick, doing unto others as you would have done unto yourself...that stuff is hard! Christianity is a helluva lot easier if you just skip those tough parts. Same with Islam. Same with any other major religion.

And that crowd doesn't like it when you throw it back in their face. They have no answers for it. Because there are none. It's hypocrisy, plain and simple.

[unpossibles]

133. great post. nt