Just Wonderin' Where You Were ...

[NanceGreggs]

It seems a lot of you, my fellow citizens, have come out of the woodwork lately – suddenly anxious to make your voices heard.

I can’t help but hear the passion in those voices when you talk about how, compelled by your “religious principles”, you have to speak out against any attempt to sanction gay marriage.

I’m just wonderin’ where you were when your president led the country into war – causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. I don’t recall hearing about your “religious principles” then. Were they on vacation in exotic places where they couldn’t be reached? I realize that cell-phone reception can be limited in out-of-the-way areas of the globe – does that explain your silence?

You’re all very vocal when it comes to the right-to-choose – and I mean VERY vocal. Yeah, there’s nothing more important than protecting the innocent, especially children.

I’m just wonderin’ where you were when people were being tortured – including children – by that same government whose actions you’ve suddenly taken an interest in. Cat get your tongue? Or was it a string of double-jackpot bingo nights at the local church that distracted you until now?

I keep hearing about how we godless libruls, now in power, are going to “redistribute the wealth” to people who don’t deserve it, and never earned it.

I’m just wonderin’ where you were when that God-fearin’, Christian president Bush was “redistributing” your tax-dollars, hand-over-fist, to Big Pharma, Big Oil, Big Business – not to mention the war profiteers who used their “bottom line” as an excuse to scrimp-‘n’-save on life-saving equipment for our troops in combat. Too busy with the Bridge club? Too much compelling TV to tear your eyes away from the screen and say something – anything at all?

I hear about how this President Obama guy wants to “change things” – and how you don’t like that. Well, I seem to remember the “changes” the current president brought about over the past eight years – like “changes” to the Constitution that meant he was accountable to no one, and you had just better accept that.

I’m just wonderin’ where you were when all that stuff was going on, and why “changing things” didn’t bother you at the time. Kids late for soccer practice, and you literally couldn’t spare a minute to say something? Caught-up in a video game, too anxious to think of anything else before you shut down the computer, night after night, your only concern getting to the "next level" of play? Yeah, it happens.

I hear you all now – oh, yes, loud and clear – as you speak up about how people of color are getting “uppity”, how people of certain sexual persuasions are getting all in-your-face, how people of true faith are getting downright nasty about pointing fingers at your hypocrisy – and you’ve been very vocal about the “injustice” of it all – the blatant persecution of patriotic, flag-waving, bumper-sticker sportin’, real Americans like yourselves.

I’m just wonderin’ where you were when your fellow Americans – yes, the ones who didn’t agree with you – were on the receiving end of the vitriol, the hatred, the accusations of being traitors to their own country, as you wore the smug smiles and the we’re-better-than-you’ll-ever-be smirks with such pride. And now, being on the other side of that equation, are things starting to add up?

I don’t remember you standing up for me – I really don’t.

And in the days to come, I won’t remember to stand up for you – not until you can explain where you were when your presence mattered, and what your silence was meant to accomplish.

[Richard Steele]

1. K&R

[BrklynLiberal]

2. Self-righteous, lyiing, hypocrites, one and all....

There is no way to justify their silence.

[cliffordu]

3. Persistently excellent, as usual. K&R!

[Indi Guy]

4. Nance - Your OP Should be Required Reading (across the board). I have a few answers...

(A small % of people will always thrive on hate.)

Politicians (for personal gain) have manipulated public opinion -- before and since the birth of our Nation ...while only few genuine statesmen actually gain the chance to lead.

Politicians divide nations from within. They appeal to, push, and exploit fear.

Many good hearted and hard working Americans were not raised to distrust authority. When the authorities they trust to lead and enlighten are self-seeking politicians -- their trust is betrayed.

This said, at the end of the day, each of us needs to accept the responsibility of thinking for ourself.

[The Wizard]

5. Yeah, we the people who put on the green suits and

carried M-16s through rice paddies and rubber plantations are traitors according to chicken hawk Republicans. In fact they're the fuckers who played a major role in my working beyond voting to defeat Republicans at all levels of government. For me it is more than just voting now that I've been labeled a "traitor" and "the kind of person who ruined the country" for questioning the motive and wisdom of invading Iraq and killing people who never hurt us.
If the nutless, chest thumping right wingers wanted an enemy, they found one.

And they never thanked us for keeping the Viet Cong from climbing through their bedroom windows in the middle of the night.

[wolfgangmo]

23. I'll thank you.

Any time you need to talk or want a beer with a friendly ear or a home cooked meal, you need just ask. I live in Minnesota, and if you can stand the snow, you are welcome at my house.

Thank you for serving. Thank you. I just wish we had done better by you.

[The Wizard]

39. Thanks for the offer and kind words

I marched in the Veterans Day parade in NYC, and the reception was wonderful. The only thing missing were the groupies. At my age the free lunch from Applebees was more suitable.

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

38. Support

Good words Wizard. I'm with you man. :thumbsup:

[The Wizard]

40. Your support is appreciated JimboBillyBubbaBob. (NT)

[TexasObserver]

6. If a person belongs to an anti-gay organization, aren't they agreeing with its bigotry?

How can people stay in a religion they KNOW is a hate group?

It is no mere coincidence the prop 8 push was foisted primarily by the Catholic Overlords working with the Mormon Overlords. Whatever one may think of those two as religions, it is unquestioned that both organizations are fundamentally fascist in design, ruled from the top, with the top choosing the top.

[newtothegame]

7. Who did this get sent to? n/t

[Joe the Liberal]

8. K&R nt

[democrank]

9. Once again, NG.......BAM!

It`s the hypocrisy, isn`t it? My personal favorite is the We Respect Life mantra as dead children pile up like cordwood in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[H2O Man]

10. Transitions can be

stressful. Many in this country are more than a bit nervous at just the thought. It's a curious thing to watch, isn't it?

Nominated, of course.

[Divine Discontent]

11. Nance, I love you for this, and you know my suffering of..

losing that guy I loved so much in FL b/c of his entrance into 'fudie-world', instead of living like Christ teaches us, and how he used to treat me before becoming a gullible swallower of their lies. The types that he hangs with all treat these actions by B*sh as a necessity for protection of the "Christian way", which is so comical - as if God (imho) doesn't have total control and doesn't need them to go on any unholy crusades (bad reference) thinking they're helping....

sigh. It's like a double-edged sword for me - losing him and losing him to fundies... Life is hilarious. I will keep my faith though - because I will not believe that any god could condone the evils of this mis-administration and, I will refuse to be like these head-in-the-sand 'compassionate Christians' who remind more of the NAZI people, than followers of Jesus.

Keep on slammin' the haters! I would send this to all magazines for submission if I were you - it's one of your best.

Many different Yes We Did items in the Obama/Biden section www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[whoopingcrone]

12. what's really wonder-full, Nance...

is that you still have the energy for eloquence.
Thanks for remembering and reminding us that
while we got permission to hope that they would stfu
on November 5th, we need to keep talking as well as smiling.

[Tigress DEM]

13. I've been here. Don't always agree with people, but I've been here.

I've marched and vigiled for Peace in DC and Minneapolis.

Saw Camp Casey DC and shouted at the police "The Whole World is WATCHING" when they arrested Cindy Sheehan and a few hundred of her new friends.

I've sat with people of all stripes of faith trying to find ways to get the government to spend money on New Orleans and get out of Iraq.

I've been very vocal in the hope that people would consider life life and not abandon people to live in whatever conditions once they left the womb.

I like uppity people of ANY color in the rainbow as well as black, white and brown. Diversity is our strength.

CHANGE is marvelous.

You aren't talking to the DU crowd, are you?

You're talking to freepers, right?

[rtassi]

14. Time to get past YOUR HATE Nance

You either stand up for everyone everywhere all the time (even those who boil your blood) or you become just another Gas Bag who's outrage means nothing! I can't figure out why we can't see that our divisiveness, anger and hate is any more attractive or constructive then theirs ... Please consider using your talents to promote peace and healing. We need it now more than ever!

[berni_mccoy]

16. You're reading comprehension skills need work

Nance is responding to hate and divisiveness. She is commenting on the hate-driven hypocrisy religious groups like the LDS exhibit when they attack gays but ignore evils like unjust invasions and the slaughter of millions of innocents. She's pointing out that these religious groups have more of a political agenda than a moral one when they don't speak out against atrocities but would work endlessly to prevent one group of people from obtaining happiness. Remember, we live in America where all people have the fundamental right to pursue happiness.

Why don't you end your hate and ignorance and work on those reading skills.

[rtassi]

22. Berni, Thank you for the reminder that we live in America ...

for being concerned about my reading skills, and for underscoring my point. Without even knowing me at all, without knowing that I stood shoulder to shoulder with gays in San Francisco, was shot at in Berkley protesting war, morned with, and then helped heal a city who's mayor and supervisor were murdered for championing gays rights, and have then continued to spent most of my adult life defending the rights of those who's voices aren't large enough to speak for themselves ... you decided to call me ignorant, presumably because I have the temerity to call out an intelligent gifted writer who in my opinion refuses to use her talent constructively.

For you to further assume that the nuances and implications of the "evils" of unjust invasions leading to the slaughter of innocents, escaped me somehow, is well, poorly considered. That's your choice in America though, but it doesn't make it any less bullshit. Nance can preach to this choir all she wants, or she can turn her bright talent to the higher consciousness, as can you, recognizing that all people, not just Americans, have the fundamental right to pursue happiness ... and the only way that is going to happen is when the collective body of humanity recognizes a universal truth. "What we resist persists".

I wish you a peaceful day

rt

[wolfgangmo]

24. I must admit that I thought this article was about hate ...

... and then I reread it, and I think it is about accountability, that Repub mantra that so often don't follow. But I can understand where it could be seen as being hateful.

Still it asks a basic question that anyone who has gone to confession or asked for absolution will know. Have you repented? There is not absolution until one admits their mistake and makes up for it ...

... which many of these people have not done. They have just switched rhetoric/target and gone on the attack again, still not giving consideration to their own culpability.

As usual an excellent article Nancy. You make me think and I love that about you.

[NanceGreggs]

26. This isn't about hatred for anyone ...

It's about the utter hypocrisy of people who dredge up their "principles" and declare they must act upon them - but only when convenient.

I have to stand up for everyone? Sorry, not going to happen. I don't stand up for bigots, warmongers, or torturers - ever. And if that makes me divisive - so be it.

[rtassi]

27. As you wish ... but be sure to observe however ...

quantum physics in action, and the undisputed truths of universal consciousness. You draw closer to you what you concentrate and focus on the most. If you are willing to wait centuries more for mankind to evolve, than I recommend staying on your righteous indignant path and continue to speak out with angrer to all perceived injustices and bigotries, without recognizing or checking your own ... and as sure as the sky is blue, "they" will continue to be there! There really is no "them" there is only "us." Ultimately, there can be no real political solution to any of the issues you raise. All of the spiritual disciplines, including un-perverted christianity, makes clear ... Unconditional love of self, is the path way to unconditional love of mankind, and our intended return to the source of everything.

peace,
rt

[LiberalLovinLug]

32. Universal consciousness or conscientiousness?

I understand, as an example, the need to forgive even those that have wronged you. But if that forgiveness means allowing that same crowd to continue stomping on you, each time they lift their boot you squeak out "I forgive you", nothing is learned and the universe is no wiser. It becomes a useless exercise.

When I hear one of those rare stories of family members, who, when one of theirs is murdered or raped, will extend a hand of forgiveness to the criminal in jail and pleads the judge for his life, I applaud such courageous selfless acts of mercy and love. It must take a lot to let go of their hate, and I think they and that criminal will both spiritually benefit from it.

But what if that criminal was still at large, leaving messages for the media about how he is unrepentant and proud of what he did and will do more?...that he wants to destroy the rest of the family if he could? You are in essence saying that that family should just move on, and forgive him while he is still at large and gunning for them. It makes no sense in any consciousness, universal or otherwise.

I am a pacifist at heart, and I think most liberal leaning progressives would rather not be confrontational and would rather use reasoning and debate with opposing viewpoints. But if there is anything we have learned in the last 8 or even 16 years, the Reich wing will be relentless in its continued attacks. Limpballs is already on it. And many of those attacks are LIES. Just like Obama did in his campaign, we just continue to respond quickly and forcefully against those lies, and here is the kicker, we must stay on the offensive. I think that has been one of the downfalls of the progressive movement is that they desperately want everyone to hold hands and sing kumbaya, thinking they are progressing the "path way to unconditional love of mankind", not even noticing the fascists, standing in the shadows around them with guns pointed.

In my opinion, the progressive movement MUST get more involved and active and aggressive. That does not mean making shit up, like the other side, it means quickly reacting to spurious attacks, and also going on the offensive on educating people about the potential benefits of things like universal healthcare, and other progressive goals.

I think many on the left just want PEACE and it seems we have it in this honeymoon glow a week after Obama was elected, and it makes it easy to let your guard down and imagine that the fascists' silence means that they are open to join together in the universal consciousness with you. You are fooling yourself. Prescott Bush was stopped in time from his attempt to create a Fascist state...his grandson took that dream further than it has ever been before. I wish it wasn't this way, but there must now be a new type of progressive methodology, one that does not let unrepentant criminals on the loose back into our homes without a fight.

[rtassi]

35. LLL, Thank you for your thoughtful reply ... This is the part I like ...

The answer to your question IMO is both. Please do not mistake my view of the spiritual as pacifism. I have witnessed ... personally witnessed, murder committed against my own family. I have lived through the horror, and come out the other side somewhat sane and whole, after I might add a life time of conflict ... Your point is well taken, but I don't sing Kumbaya, and I am certainly not experiencing "honeymoon glow." My position is not to be less vigilant, nor to be less passionate, nor active, nor skillful, nor determined... but rather, more effective. Anger and hate saps our energy and focus ... It pulls us farther away from our goals ... It in fact attracts to us that which we are seeking to avoid ... I have no such illusions about the fascist's taking a holiday. I was in third grade when the last President who attempted to "change" America left his brains on the back seat of his lincoln. I know those people are still here, and not about to give up power without a fight ... So lets fight a fight they can't win. When we change ourselves to the extent that we can live outside the reach of fear, and enough of us do that ... at the same time ... we construct a force of power that can not be defeated by any bullet, or crisis, or means of intimidation. When your internal perceptions change about your connection to the life force, what ever that perception is, you achieve a calm, that will provide a fail safe clarity that will guide you to achieve a more progressive agenda. I am a professional Sea Captain. I am not faint of heart, nor do I suffer fools gladly. I called Nance Griggs out because I, as do many others here at the DU who don't post often, know her to be passionate, articulate, bright, and on the verge of helping many people see more clearly the mission before us. I appreciate her intellect, and your comments.
Peace,
rt

[LostinVA]

34. WTF are you talking about ?

[Bluenorthwest]

15. fantastic

This could be sent to so many people I can think of, uncut and unchanged, for so many were so smug for so long.

[berni_mccoy]

17. Well said Nance.

[Mad_Dem_X]

18. A-MEN!!! n/t

[crim son]

19. Nance, once again you speak for us all.

You're so damn good at it. K&R.

[zbdent]

20. they were in their living rooms, getting their sexual jollies from their favorite porn channel ...

Faux News Network ... where the "gay sex" was all the pundits slobbering over Bush's "manliness" ...

[Joiwind]

21. Where I Was

...catching hell in Fundamentalist churches for my anti-war, anti-torture, anti-War-on-Terror stance. I always held terrorism to be a law enforcement matter, not particularly amenable to military solutions.

Do I get to be pro-life yet? BTW, I also strongly oppose the death penalty.

[bridgit]

25. Hole-up by Cree Lake just watching the tar sand go round & round; but I'm not the only one

Mostly cause the game really isn't played in 20/20 hindsight, in retrospect. Sure, the ball is dropped into the pocket you're standing beside...but the shot is far more times than not made down; or up the table depending upon your point of view http://www.tarsandswatch.org

[polmaven]

28. See...What THIS religious, straight female

doesn't understand is HOW in the WORLD "Proposition 8 = Religious Freedom"!!!???

To me it's more like Proposition 8 = Religious Tyranny!


How do two people who are in love, gay or straight, getting married, threaten the rights of religious people to do what they want? Is someone threatening to force heterosexual people to marry someone of his/her own gender? Is someone threatening to force any religious institution to accept or perform gay marriages?

THIS IS A CIVIL MATTER, MORANS!!!!! WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?

[prostock69]

29. I can honestly say my head has been up my ass

I was too busy worrying about my family and my own problems. I never paid attention to politics and how it was impacting my life. I watched Fox News which completely brainwashed my common sense away. I have no excuse for jumping on the bandwagon for change. I now feel like Sarah Palin when she was trying to get up to speed on what her job would entail and where all the continents on the map are. I have spent the last 2 months reading everything I can get my hands on to educate me on what has happened during the last 8 years with GWB in charge. I can say that I am horrified and embarrased at how little I did care. How did our government get away with this? I can say that I have made it my mission to inform all of my family members of what has transpired and I am trying to get them to quit watching Fox News.

You see, I was part of the "white base" the "ignorant and misinformed" that the Republicans rely on to get them in power even though I never voted. I feel like I have emerged from the dark side. Unfortunately, it usually takes a disaster to get people to open their eyes. And boy, have my eyes been opened and I will never allow them to be shut again.

[LiberalLovinLug]

30. Welcome to the light side

Thanks for the honesty there prostock69.

You are one of the ones that will help others towards enlightenment. My extended family is mostly conservative/fundie and I am the only person that they would ever give a minute to with a different or critical point of view. It's important, not so much for the adults, who are stubbornly and vainly set in their ways, its for my nephews and nieces, who have been educated in private "Christian" schools, and have simply never heard any other viewpoint.

You are the exception to the folks that Nancy is speaking about. We need good intelligent folk like you to keep looking, not left or right, but simply to the truth. And when you speak it to those others in the "white base" most will have that glazed eyes look, but once in a while, and you are the proof, enough will sink in to plant a seed of curiosity for that truth.

[specimenfred1984]

31. Welcome to DU, it's a real education you are embarking on

1000s of crimes have been committed and many were treason, flat out treason. Here's a few pieces you might find interesting:

http://torturingdemocracy.org/

http://oversight.house.gov/IraqOnTheRecord/

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/washington/20generals.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all ---- "message force multipliers"

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1249465620080812

[DU GrovelBot]

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[MadMaddie]

36. Spot on Nance!!

But usually Bully's are nowhere to be found when it's time for accountability. Yep nowhere to be found.

[Political_Junkie]

37. Brava!

My God woman! You are on a roll! Love it!

[rtassi]

41. A random act of kindness ...

With great humility, I thank the person who donated to DU anonymously in my name

rt