why is prop 8 more insulting to the gay community than the arkansas measure?

[SwampG8r]

the arkansas measure not only defined marriage as between a man and a woman only but also took away the right of adoption and even the ability to be a foster family

why is prop 8 getting all the attention when a much more restrictive law was passed in arkansas?

[THUNDER HANDS]

1. because its arkansas

[SwampG8r]

3. elaborate?

[THUNDER HANDS]

8. ok

arkansas is not considerd to be as ....oh how can i say this politely... "evolved" on the issue of gay rights as California. So people aren't exactly bowled over with a feather at the news that they approved a pair of anti gay measures.

[SwampG8r]

9. thanks well said

[Honeycombe8]

2. Well, a lot of people have never even heard of the AR measure, for one thing.

Maybe you'd care to explain it?

[SwampG8r]

6. from what i understand it was prop 8

with the addition of refusal of adoption rights and the refusal of foster family opportunities

myself i think its the same reason the florida measure got little or no press
mainly because we had not approved these rights before the vote so the constitutional issue of can you take rights back neednt be addressed

[Arkansas Granny]

52. Actually, Arkansas Constitutional Amendment 3 which defined marriage as

the union of one man and one woman was voted on in November, 2004. The amendment that was voted on this year prohibits individuals cohabitating outside of legal marriage from being adoptive or foster parents. Originally it was to prohibit same sex couples from adopting or being foster parents, but it failed, so they reworded it and it appeared on the ballot this year.

Many people in this state fear the "gay agenda".

[ComtesseDeSpair]

4. You expect that kind of thing in Arkansas...

[lazer47]

11. Exactly what is it you would expect from Arkansas????

[LynneSin]

21. There are parts of California that resemble Arkansas

:scared:

[ComtesseDeSpair]

28. People expect Arkansas to be filled with bigots...

but California has a reputation for being progressive. But, having grown up in an EXTREMELY conservative, Dumbfuckistan part of California, I know that's just a myth. Thank goodness for San Francisco, or I would have gone insane during my years there.

[Kookaburra]

5. Probably because

California is supposed to be such a progressive state, that a measure like this should never have even made it onto the ballot, let alone be voted in.

Conversely, Arkansas isn't exactly what you'd call liberal, or even slightly left leaning, so it comes a no surprise that a repressed mesasure such as theirs would pass.

I'm not saying that's fair or right, but it's the way people think.

[W_HAMILTON]

13. Exactly.

It would be the equivalent of...which would be more disappointing and discouraging to you:

South Carolina* going Republican?

Or New York going Republican.

You expect stupidity from one, you don't expect it from the other.



* I live in SC, so I have the right to call my state stupid :)

[margotb822]

45. delete

[GodlessBiker]

7. Yes, it's all about expectations. We expect this stupidity from Arkansas, but not from California.

[SwampG8r]

10. i guess im guilty too

my state florida passed the same thing basically and i used arkansas instead of florida in my OP

im prejudiced toward florida i think

[stray cat]

12. The ruling in Arkansas is more comprehensive and bad but CA took rights away that had been given

[Bubbha Jo]

14. The Arkansas bill affect a whole lot less people....

It was just about gays/unmarried folks wanting to be a foster child.

[gatorboy]

32. It affects less?? What about the kids that will now be stuck in foster care?

In my opinion, it's much worse than Prop 8 when you take into consideration the cruelty involved here. The Arkansas foster care service is despicable.

[Pab Sungenis]

15. Because Prop 8 TOOK AWAY rights already there.

And a fundamental right at that.

[margotb822]

47. Exactly

The taking away of rights is what makes prop 8 so bad.

[nichomachus]

16. It's quite simple, actually

In Arkansas, same-sex couples never were allowed to marry. This vote merely pre-empted any future right.

However, in CA, the right to marry had been ruled on by the Supreme Court. Same-sex couples had the right to marry and it was guaranteed by the constitution.

Prop H8 removed an existing right -- the first time voters in the US have voted to take away a constitutional right from a specific group of people. That is huge! That is more of a story than the pre-emptive strike in Arkansas, which is something that has been done in other states.

However, the ruling on adoption is a different story altogether -- and should be covered in its own right, not connected to same-sex marriage -- because of the damage it will do to children.

[Orsino]

54. Prop. 8 was aimed more directly at a lot more people, too. n/t

[cwydro]

17. Amendment 2 in Florida passed also.

No one has mentioned it.

[nichomachus]

19. See Post 16 above -- same reason

[SwampG8r]

26. post 10 above

[yardwork]

42. Some of us have mentioned it a lot, actually.

I've worn out my fingers typing FOUR STATES PASSED HATEFUL ANTI-GAY LAWS - ARIZONA, ARKANSAS, CALIFORNIA, AND FLORIDA.

[cwydro]

51. You're right,

I haven't been here as much as I would like lately and missed some stuff.

I have posted about it too. It is sickening and just so disheartening.

I really did not think Amendment 2 would pass.

How stupid am I?

[JI7]

18. California took away what people had plus we voted liberal on other issues

[nichomachus]

20. Right -- farm animals now have more rights than gay people

[GodlessBiker]

22. Yes, that was rather offensive. Chickens' rights were protected but not ours.

[XemaSab]

30. Farm animals do NOT have more right than gay people

I'm a vegetarian, and a friend of the gay community, and when gay people are locked in cages so small they can't move, THEN you can float that bullshit claim. :grr:

[TommyO]

44. The point is that chickens got more rights, gay people had their's taken away.

It's perfectly fair to bring it up, because it happened!

[XemaSab]

48. That is a fairer way to put it

I am an advocate for rights for ALL people and ALL species, and pitting one group against another is not good.

[Occam Bandage]

40. Er...no. No, that is ridiculous. nt

[Marrah_G]

23. because Discrimination against them was written into the constitution on the State

while also revoking rights they already had.

The Arkansas law can be deemed unconstitutional.

[yardwork]

43. Florida's constitution was also changed and can't be unchanged easily.

[DevonRex]

24. We know the fundies have a firm grasp on Arkansas so we expected it.

We are shocked that fundies and Catholics and Mormons have taken control of California.

Plus, how many times over the last 8 years have we ALL thought about states we could move to in order to get AWAY from the nuts? California, Massachusetts, Connecticut (once they get rid of Joe L.), New York...

[NashVegas]

25. Because Californians Are Supposed To Be *Enlightened*

Gay people are major movers of the economy in two of Cali's three largest cities.

[XemaSab]

31. Which city are gay people not major movers of the economy in?

I can't think of a good-sized city in California that doesn't have a gay neighborhood, or a rich gay civic life. :shrug:

[Starry Messenger]

35. Now I'm curious too.

Who is the holdout?

[NashVegas]

37. San Diego

I'm sure there are plenty of gay neighborhoods and economic engines there, just not on the scale of Hollywood and SF.

[BlooInBloo]

27. Because nobody in their right mind expects much of anything from Arkansas.

[Sebastian Doyle]

29. The difference is EXISTING civil rights

True, gays should have full civil rights everywhere, but in California they already DID, and some pigfuckers voted to take them away. That's a big difference. Though the votes in Arkansas, Florida, and Arizona pretty much sucked ass as well.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[gatorboy]

34. In my opinion, it's much worse than Prop 8.

It no only affects couples. But also the children who are stuck in a lousy foster care system.

It's a real shame this didn't get as much coverage.

[slackmaster]

36. Because even DUers LOVE to bash California at every possible opportunity

Cali-bashing is not exclusively a hobby of the right wing.

[Occam Bandage]

39. I think it's the opposite, actually.

First, many DUers *are* Californians and have been following this closely. Secondly, California has been on the front edge of the fight for equal rights; this is more of a step backwards in many people's minds than the Arkansas measure was, since Arkansas already has a kind of backwards-redneck image.

[slackmaster]

55. Ich bin ein Californianer auch

A lot of people don't understand the diversity of opinion that exists here.

[Occam Bandage]

38. Because one happened in California, and one happened in fucking Arkansas. nt

[yardwork]

41. Thank you. Four states passed hateful anti-gay laws this year.

Arizona, Arkansas, California, and Florida. Of the four, California's is the easiest to remedy and the most likely to be overturned.

This list does not include the many other states that have passed anti-gay laws since 2000.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

46. Because

Arkansas is not the hotbed of liberal thought. Here in California, a state which always goes blue, Prop * should have never passed.

[buckettgirl]

49. Wow! I don't think any of these answers are any good.

I don't know why Prop 8 is getting more attention.
I don't have an answer.

But, I would think that any such law that affects the rights of the gay community should equally be seen as a severe setback to attaining their civil rights. Laws passed in one state shouldn't matter more or less than any other state.

By "expecting" something like this from a state like Arkansas because they aren't as "progressive" is just like shooting yourself in the foot. The only expectation from any and all states that there SHOULD be is that ALL people have equal rights and treated equally by the law regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, political affiliation, education level, and social class.

By lowering your expectations and saying "oh its ok. Its just Arkansas, we expect that." - is setting yourself up for failure and shows the people in those states that its Ok to treat you as a second class citizen.

[Born_A_Truman]

50. Arkansas bans all unmarried, cohabiting couples

Proposed Initiative Act No. 1 is a bland name for a ballot measure engaging supporters and opponents in an increasingly acrimonious debate over who should be allowed to be foster or adoptive parents.

The measure would ban unmarried, cohabiting couples from becoming foster or adoptive parents. It’s on the Nov. 4 ballot for voters to adopt or reject.

~~~~~

[JJ]

53. Look at it this way...

which would outrage you more.

Bush sending troops to attack Iran for no good reason.
Obama sending troops to attack Iran for no good reason.

Arkansas, as well as Florida and Arizona, benefit from the soft bigotry of low expectations.