Is the GM bailout at all similar to the Chrysler one in the 80s?

[msallied]

And would the Chevy Volt perhaps be GM's answer to the k-car?

[eleny]

1. Why can't the gov't buy Volt's from the car comapnies and sell them to us?

I heard this on the radio today. Someone proposed that the U.S. gov't. designate the money as a purchase of fuel efficient vehicles, the Volt, to be manufactured for purchase instead of it being a bailout with no strings.

Then we go to the gov't, turn in our old cars for recycling and buy the Volts for $100. a month.

This would help get us off foreign oil, lower our carbon emissions and keep the auto related businesses going.

Even if there was some financial loss in the deal, we would still win because of the above listed benefits.

[uponit7771]

3. GM can't make the Volt if they go under, this is an effect of the shock doctrine to me

[eleny]

8. If the gov't pays them money to build a certain vehicle, how do they go under?

I'm just not for giving them money to either tread water or money without strings.

At this point GM, Ford and Chrysler ought to be charged with building that electric vehicle in order to get the cash from us.

[uponit7771]

13. That was the goal of the first 25 billion given out but NOW GM needs operating cash and can't get it

...via THEIR OWN BANK GMAC, why?

Because the Bush admin is throwing the finger at GMAC, why?

To kill the Volt, no other reason why IMHO.

[eleny]

22. They need cash, so we pay them to build the Volt

Now, if all "they" want to do is kill the electric car again, I won't argue with you. That's entirely plausible.

But if they want a solution that helps everyone including the environment, they can do as has been suggested - we pay them build the Volt and resell them to ourselves.

[uponit7771]

23. Exactly, and then the expand the product line to SUV's with half the range and GM is an 800

...pound gorilla in the car market again but guess what that would do to OPEC and other energy commodity markets.

Yeap, telling GM to go to hell is like whipping a kid with belt for peeing in the bed IMHO.

GM screwed up by not reinvesting back into manufacturing flexibility but they don't deserve to die because of it.

GMAC is a bank with it's hand out and the Bush admin is spitting in it.

[eleny]

24. I don't mean to go into a silly zone here...

But the way I figure it, the next piece of equipment hubby and I purchase probably ought to be a garden tractor with a roto tilling attachment powerful enough to deal with our tough Colorado soil. And then invest in seeds. We already have irrigation water on our property and a 1/4 acre plot we could till and plant.

Even if we invested in gold, you can't steam it for supper.

:scared:

[uponit7771]

25. LOL!! After seeing retail sales yesterday we might have to do this...no one is buyin anything

[eleny]

26. Milk is still pricey

I went shopping Sunday night. When I hit the dairy aisle I wanted to scream "Why is the milk still so damned high?!" But I found a markdown gallon of organic for 2 bucks and calmed down.

[uponit7771]

27. Trucking still high = milk still high....Big Oil is chokin the life out of this country

[eleny]

28. Yeah, diesel is still ridiculous

I'm old enough to remember when diesel was way cheaper than dirt.

[napoleon_in_rags]

18. NOW you're talking. The car companies CREATED this crisis in part.

By selling these fuel guzzling vehicles, and redirecting people from spending in our economy to sending it to Saudi Arabia by paying for gassing up thse SUVs. ANY money they get needs to be aid in repairing the damage they've already done.

[eleny]

20. And it's not a punishment because we're keeping everyone working

I'd get in line to buy one. We have two vehicles. One is a 1991 gas engine car. I'd trade it in for a Volt immediately.

[uponit7771]

2. Yes because GM has the Volt which is the ONLY car on the planet with a 40 mile charged commute so...

...there's a DEFINITE upside to the company.

There's NO reason why GM should be allowed to go under other than attempting to kill the volt.

[msallied]

4. They could sell the concept to another company. The Volt doesn't have to die with GM.

[Kalyke]

5. Why would they do that?

They developed it.

And, as I've stated a million times today - I don't want to own a foreign car. Give me my American cars, thank you.

[msallied]

7. Why do you think American car companies would suddenly disappear if GM went under?

Jesus, but we are a society of capitalists, are we not? A company goes under and a new one comes along and takes its place.

Oh, and your "American" cars are often built in Canada and Mexico and often use Japanese parts. The Saturn Vue uses a Honda drivetrain. The concept of the American car died out long ago. Your jingoist rhetoric is about as outdated as the Dodge Aries.

[uponit7771]

11. Because Ford, GM and Chrysler get their parts made from the SAME 2nd tier companies and they did

...this long time ago to help their bottom line.

Ford OWNED all the production process and so did GM and they could save money by either selling off the second and 3rd tiers get the same result.

Yes, killing ONE operator = killing them all

GM is waaaaay to big to fail.

[Kalyke]

14. Because if you put 4 million people out of work, then no one

will be able to afford a car. And, I highly doubt some conceptual car company in California who can't seem to make a car under $50,000 will be putting all those folks back to work.

Jingoist rhetoric, my ass. Jingoist rhetoric doesn't pay bills.

BTW, I still hate foreign cars. They suck. Their electrical and sensory systems fail and fail often - it's a given, yet, the best-built (designed in America) eco-friendly car on the road is the FORD Escape hybrid - which, I believe your new president drives.

[uponit7771]

16. RIGHT!! as of this year there's been a loss of 1 million jobs if GM went under by this time next...

...year it would be 5 times that much.

There's no way people are going to buy a car from a bankrupt company.

[msallied]

17. So would you say the same thing about the Mazda Tribute Hybrid?

And what about the hundreds of thousands in Ohio and Michigan who are ALREADY out of work? Millions of Americans are already losing their jobs because of these fucks.

And don't even try to tell me that American cars trump the Japanese in terms of quality. I grew up with a family who drove Oldsmobiles, Chevys, and Buicks, okay? My first car was an Olds 88. It was the ONLY GM car I ever owned that didn't fall apart after it passed the 50K mark.

They make pure rubbish. Always have.

[uponit7771]

21. GM's quality ratings went up after hiring Toyotas quality officers then they COULD'VE taken the

...money they were making on SUVs and put it back into the manufacturing process to make their product line more flexible but they didn't and that was stupid but waaaaay less stupid than AIG selling 30 - 1 CDS's and they've received 150billion from the Bush admin already.

GMAC is a bank with it's hand out and the Bush admin is spitting in it...they're disgusting people.

[uponit7771]

9. We have TWO companies in America that can do this and FIT American SUV's. If these concepts were...

...sold to "others" there wouldn't be the cars made that we want to buy.

I honestly think the Bush admin is trying to kill the Volt, they've already killed Tesla motors who was fully capitalized with pre orders...there's NO FREAKIN reason why that car company with US manufacturing shouldn't be giving a billion a quarter looking at their operating capital being so low.

I pray Obama helps them out, killing the Volt and Tesla is a hat trick for big oil and it sucks bad.

[msallied]

15. You make a very interesting point about killing the Volt.

If that is the case, then I pray god that they all burn in hell. But one point -- the CEO of GM is behind the Volt and he's just as oil-happy as the Bush administration. He's a climate change denier too. GM could be saved and the Volt could still die. And if that happens, then everybody loses.

[uponit7771]

19. The CEO of GM is a face guy, he doesn't really run anything the COO of GM is the one who should get

...the boot up his butt at this point for not being more flexible with their manufacturing process. They have a 2 year time to market turn around on product lines while Toyota has what....6 months tight?

Yeah, but other than that GM isn't doing the evil like AIG is who was the flag ship of "Free Market" conservative stupidity and has now received more than 150 billion from the Bush admin.

There's no way GM should be allowed to fail, they were stupid but waaaaaaaaaaaaay less stupid than AIG.

The CEO is behind the Volt because he knows the upside is stupid cash, the car gets 150 mpg and does a 40 mile on a single charge.

What would GM look like if half that range were put into a suburban, just think what would happen to OPEC if GM started selling 100mpg SUVs that did 20 miles on the charge?

Yes, they are trying to kill the Volt...they've already Killed Tesla.

[dipsydoodle]

6. The UK government tried to save Rover/MG

but failed . See here for example : http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2006/mar/10/politics.motoring

MG is back in productuon now - Chinese owned.

The failure was inevitable because Rover cars were not selling well for whatever reason. A GM bailout could follow the same path if their cars are not selling. Its the problem of manufacturers selling what they make rather than making what they can sell.

[msallied]

10. You make a great point.

For the record, I am not in support the bailout. GM has been cranking out pure shit for decades now, and they ran their own company into the ground. I grew up in Detroit, Michigan and Dayton, Ohio, in towns that had heavy GM worker populations. That is no longer the case. The last big GM facility in Moraine, OH just closed its doors. The places that were buzzing in the 80s and 90s are now ghost towns.

[uponit7771]

12. MG and Rover didn't own the Volt. There's NO car in the US that's going to get a 40mile charged...

...commute other than the Volt.

GM has an upside in that car ALONE, this is an attempt to kill that car.