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Dean's candidacy really needs to be seen as a movement

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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:12 PM
Original message
Dean's candidacy really needs to be seen as a movement
I've noticed a lot of people on this board and in the media focusing their attacks of his campaign upon the man that leads it, ie. Dr. Howard Dean. This is, of course, fair and legitimate, but it also misses the bigger picture.

That bigger picture is a massive populist movement that is taking hold in the United States, with the Dean campaign acting as its political manifestation. These people are sick and tired of politics as usual and have been energized by the emergence as a man that represents something else, something better.

We are tired of the corporations influencing, and now even literally writing, legislation in this country. Yes, business interests have always had powerful controls on government and probably always will exercise some muscle in the decision making process. But what we are seeing today is unprecedented and just plain corrupt. Dick Cheney's friends in the energy business are now writing our nation's Energy Plan. Bush's friends in the oil industry are leading us off to wars. The RNC's corporate buddies are influencing our country's environmental regulation, such as the abhorrent Clean Air and Skies act, which, like everything in the Bush administration, does the exact opposite. On and on the list goes, and there is no end in sight without the people standing up to take back the power.

We are tired of a Democratic party that more often than not seems to be complicit with the radical right wing agenda. Our party laregely voted for the No Child Left Behind Act, which is clearly an attempt to undermine public education. Our party supported the Iraq War Resolution wholeheartedly (with the exception of a few brave dissenters), which is obviously the linchpin of the PNAC agenda. Our party supported the first of Bush's tax cuts and offered only meek criticisms of the second, even though both were CLEARLY aimed to bankrupt the gov't and thus starve social programs. These are not the values that our party is supposed to espouse.

We are tired of the right wing framing the debate. What a bizarre set of cirumstances we find ourselves in when those that seek to fight off a radical agenda that aims to benefit only the very few must apologize for our views.

These things can change, but only if we support and further the groundswell movement that is taking place today in this country. While mainstream candidates seek desperately to derail the movement (for fear of losing their coveted power), we must rise to the occasion and shout even louder to make our voices heard. We must make the rest of the country realize why they ought to listen to us, and I think they are ready for it.

Howard Dean is a pragmatic populist, a perfect figurehead for a movement that aims for the advancement of ALL Americans, not just the few wealthy elite. To those that detract from him and as a result the larger movement I beg of you: consider what is at stake here. We can embark on a new path, a path blazed for and by the people. Or we can continue down the same path with a more amicable leader at the helm. I, for one, am tired of the latter. Are you?
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hear, hear!
WELL said! :)
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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. 100% Spot On ! Well done ! Bravo for telling it like it IS ! -eom-
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 07:16 PM by Hoppin_Mad
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jmaier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think you've basically
portrayed a false choice: Join up with a 'populist' Dean or go along with a limp dick wannabe.

I've always had the power. I've always been a populist. I vote, canvas, donate, etc. campaign after campaign. It wasn't awakened by Gov Dean (who I do admire) so I don't see populism failing if he isn't the nominee. We have several good candidates, including Gov Dean, to carry the banner against *.

Here is a brutal truth: if the 'movement' fails to get Dean nominated in a primary process where the voters tend to be the more active, progressive members of the party, then the movement isn't ready for primetime. That's pretty simple.

Let me reemphasize that I'm not against the efforts of Dean supporters or Gov Dean himself. I'll happily vote and support him if he wins the nomination. I simply believe that we have another somewhat better alternative.

peace.



Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. And that is What they are scared to death of...
"That bigger picture is a massive populist movement that is taking hold in the United States, with the Dean campaign acting as its political manifestation. These people are sick and tired of politics as usual and have been energized by the emergence as a man that represents something else, something better."
:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

Thanks for writing your thoughts! :kick:
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Exactly, mon ami
They will attack it with everything they've got and, to be honest, I am afraid they will be successful. I beg of those reading this DO NOT LET THEM KILL THE MOVEMENT! Their answer, I believe, is to try to co-opt and then stifle this movement via the candidacy of Wesley Clark. I am deeply sorry if this offends Clark supporters, but I really think it to be the truth.
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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. :)
yep. lol simple but i agree
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YellowDawgDemocrat Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Yup
I worry more about Dean not getting the nomination than the perceived electability issue.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. more like a bowel movement
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 07:29 PM by Bombtrack
he latched on to the anti-war movement.

and he had built in gay support from his about-face "championing" of gay-rights, from being more-or-less required to provide partnerships for gays. That's it
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. A bowel movement to excrete DINO turds like Kerry
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 08:12 PM by JVS
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. So Kerry and every dem to his right are DINO's
that leaves about 4 or 5 in the senate and 40 in the house
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. No, you can be right of Kerry and not be a DINO. Byrd for example.
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 10:28 PM by JVS
What you can't do is fold consistently to Bush and then expect a pass.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. It is a few things
IRW
Patriot Act
Attacking another Democrat more than Attacking Bush.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
34. Why can't you take the poster's point about the movement, instead...
of focusing all your bile on Dean?

The poster took great pains to separate the movement from
Dean. Your post is nothing but broad smears and insults.

Attacks like this add no positive value.

Why don't you address the point?

There is an old saying that politicians don't lead, they
find out which direction people are marching and they
get in front.

Well, Dean got in front a year ago; and the DLC crowd
is still trying to convince the populist marchers to put
those pitchforks and scythes down and get back to
farming.

You got nothing (except invective, of which I expect
more). I'm sure you won't disappoint.

arendt
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Dean didn't create the movement, that's my point
it's combination of the fact that he was running for a year before anyone else and his decision to pander to a new constituancy group, the anti-war movement
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
42. Wow
This is your argument?

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Boo Boo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
46. Damn!
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 12:31 AM by Boo Boo
Ya beat me to the "bowel" joke. :-)
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Must suck
to get beaten to the punch on a poop joke.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. I admire deansinternet grassroots and republicrat challenge but....
Dont like his misleading and smear tactics.i wish he would follow his rhetoric.I feel that he is being oppertunistic. but am glad that republicrats are shaking in their washington loafers (but i got this nagging feeling that dean is one himself)
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. If he is one himself why is he getting attacked by the DLC?
And everyone else?

Yeah, yeah...he is the front runner. That partially explains why some of the candidates are bashing him (though I still maintain the intensity is alarming).

But what about the DLC?

They CLEARLY are very scared of him getting the nomination.

Why?

I believe it is because they know that he intends to change the power structure of the party TOWARDS THE PEOPLE. The DLC can't have that because then their cozy little pro-corporate whore way of life would be challenged.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Well its his nafta loving big corporate snuggling past i dont like
I really hope to god he has changed because that would be great but believe me i have nothing but praise for the internet/grassroots (would that be cyberoots?) launch .I see this as a way for americans to take a more active role in picking the canidates instead of speacial interest groups and the news whores picking our cannidates for us
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. there is nothing wrong with the movement except the head
why waste a movement on a centerist?
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. who would you propose? Kerry?
LAUGH. One of the biggest Insiders there is.

Gephardt? Ditto.

Lieberman? Ditto, plus camoflauge.

Kucinich? CMB? Sharpton?

Clark? A GOP general in a johnny-come-lately robe?



Now that we got the laughs out of the way, it leaves us with one real leader for the movement.

Howard Dean.

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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Revolution is here!! And the professional politicos are soiling their
pants.

Dean '04....
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deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. It was a good show while it lasted, but it's time to move on....
He was too late to the podium on the Middle Class Tax issue....it's the one poison arrow the hit him right in the heart of his campaign. I remember when Clark came out with is Tax plan the other day and Dean supporters on this board said, boy that sure is boring, is that the best Clark can do?

But in the End, it killed their candidate...and they didn't even see it coming. The scathing Jan. 12 articles in Newsweek and Time that will be on every grocery store shelf in America will put the final nail in his coffin.

A Clinton endorsement could possibly save him, but someone else has already sewn that up.

"If the Confederacy falls, there should be written on its tombstone: Died of a Theory." - Jefferson Davis

After Super Tuesday, Governor Dean, Your Sword Sir...



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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. What does your guy have to offer the movement?
Clark?

He is practically the epitome of a pro-corporate lackey. He was a LOBBYIST for AXCIOM for crying out loud! He was influential in the Stephens Group right up until he decided to run!

Clark represents business as usual, period. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss but he seems nicer.
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deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. He offers the Presidency and possibly the recovery of five
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 07:44 PM by deminflorida
southern Democratic Senate seats...

That's for starters....

and as for a Washington Insider, Good Luck spinning that one, he hasn't been retired from the military that long.
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Then explain his coziness with the Clintons
Bill Clinton is the epitome of what happens when a Democrat sells out his ideals for political gain. That is what a Washington insider is in my opinion, and Clark's campaign is filled with Clinton's guys.
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deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Well, for starters Clinton was his Commander in Chief, just like
Clinton was my Commander in Chief. You have a problem with that? Guess so, like so many others in your movement do, right?
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. I have a problem with Clinton working under the Republican frame
It seemed that the only ideal that Clinton would not sacrifice in a heartbeat for political expediency was the defense of abortion rights. The prison population doubled under him, welfare was essentially killed (which was okay during the booming economy but is really taking its toll now), he backed down from the fight for universal health care, and so on.

Dean, I believe, offers and opportunity to frame the debate in populist terms. That is why his candidacy is so vital.
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deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. He also offers an Average $2000 tax hike on middle class....
Americans, don't leave that out.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Fired from the military
and don't you forget it. You don't think the Republicans will forget it, do you?
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deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. You can't be fired from the Military....
did you know that? He is Retired, and then received the highest Medal that can be given to a civilian...."The Medal of Freedom". Clinton gave it to him.

Maybe you should watch his biography and retirement ceremony along with all the Generals praising him in it.

You can see it at www.clark04.com
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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. "scathing Jan. 12 articles" LOL Hilarious ! -eom-
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. I might remind you that the term "Wolf" is inflamatory..
I have alerted, but as yet nothing has been done....
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Probably because it doesn't warrant an alert
eom
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deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Really???
"things which should generally be avoided are: unnecessarily hot rhetoric, nicknames for prominent Democrats or their supporters"
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. Oops
Our local meetup grew by 50 percent tonight. There were white people, black people, christian people, muslim people, rich people, and people who were not rich, men, women, children and seniors.

Perhaps the people just haven't gotten the message yet and still believe that they have the power to take their country back.

There are more people working here for Dean now than worked for Al Gore on election eve 2000. They are packing up a busload of Floridians to head to Iowa to rally support. They will be joining the 5000 volunteers already there. The week after that South Carolina!

Those not heading to IA or SC will be canvasing here door to door for March 9. It is all volunteers and there are hundreds already. Nothing like this has been seen here for decades.

I am afraid you couldn't be more wrong.
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Zinnola Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
30. Great post
:kick:
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
31. I cannot believe the belligerence that continuously
pops up everytime a candidate of OURS gets good news. The Democratic nominee will win only if we all pull together. I do NOT know about you, but four more years of Shrub frightens me to death. He is as viable as a sack of potatoes. He is very dangerous because he is a braindead, dry drunk who is a sociopath with plenty of weapons to "path" with. The environment alone is worth fighting this cabal for. I am getting truly worried about my future grandchildren. On NPR Science Friday the scientists were predicting monumental changes due to manmade gases, etc. in just 10 years. Bush is stopping stem cell research which could potentially help so many people. He's an idiot, who cares for noone but himself, and is so mindless that he is constantly manipulated. He brags about not reading the paper. How stupid can one get? He is quoted as saying some books are good because they have nice pictures. And how about his boasting that when he and Bill were at Yale, Buckley wrote a book and that he read one? And that wife, cancelling a poetry reading because some guests were going to present anti-war poems. I despise provincial littleness.
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Printer70 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
32. Principles are for the Ages
I am amazed at how willing some Democrats are willing to abandon the this progressive movement. Over the years, the Left and the Right have become virtually indistinguishable- with Democrats passing a disappointing welfare "reform" bill and rubber stamping Bush's privatization of Medicare, war with Iraq, and underfunding of education. We may resent Nader but there's a reason why he won a few million votes despite almost no TV time or participation in debates. Let's say we win with Clark- nothing changes. The DLC reasserts control of the party and any opposition to the Iraq war will seem hypocritical with Clark's unilateral war in Kosovo. All this because some are bellyaching over Dean's electability- even though a recent Time CNN poll shows Dean trailing Bush by one point outside the margin of error.
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Polemonium Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
36. Well said
Imagine a candidate that listens to the people and because he is supported by the people, he doesn't have to undermine us after he is elected, in fact he can't because it will be us holding his feet to the fire not corporate guy X or Y. Hang on you don't have to imagine, you just have to join us and support the guy to take our country back.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
38. You said movement...
he..hehe..hehehe..he...
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
41. I'm ringing a bell!
You win!
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
43. I remember a "compassionate-conservative" candidate
do you?

We would be replacing one false campaigner with another - just a different political party.

If you truly - really-really-truly believe in Dean's campaign - then you should support Dennis Kucinich who tells the truth.
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. If you think Kucinich's campaign is anything like Dean's
you didn't read the original post.
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ThirdWheelLegend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
48. "Or we can continue down the same path..." Isn't that Dean?
I think this is where you are wrong.

"Or we can continue down the same path with a more amicable leader at the helm. I, for one, am tired of the latter. Are you?"

That is why I do not support Dean. Because he is exactly that. What is Dean really going to change? Please tell me. I have read his policies. I have seen his history. I have heard his RHETORIC. I still have yet to find the fundamental change we so desperately need.

Not cutting the Pentagon budget.
Not repealing the Patriot Act.
Not cancelling NAFTA.
For capital punishment.
History of relation to big energy.
Staying in Iraq.


Is the big change civil-unions? Wow, that is great, but I was hoping for a bit more.

Besides the campaign, where is the change?

TWL
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