Flashback YouTube vids - Barack Obama did flip flop on Cuba policy

[Billy Burnett]

First, he's against the US embargo on Cuba.

Barack Obama on the Cuban Embargo (2004)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ3SVok9g34

Then he's for the US embargo on Cuba.

Barack Obama: Cuba policy (Miami. Aug, 2007)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqO37BBhCqY

~ ~

A short summation.

Obama Flip Flops on Cuban Embargo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OjOQ6xz1b8

~ ~


It sure would be nice to have candidates stand up for the majority of American's opinion on the US sanctions.

http://bdnews24.com/details.php?cid=1&id=68209

According to a Zogby poll taken a week before the election, 60 percent of Americans believe that Washington should revise its policies towards Cuba. In particular, 68 percent thought Americans should be allowed to travel to the island and 62 percent said U.S. companies should be allowed to trade with it.

[WeDidIt]

1. LIAF

[HughMoran]

7. lol

That's pretty funny :D

[AtomicKitten]

11. :lfor:

:rofl:

[blondeatlast]

12. 1+, tn

[Doityourself]

35. OMG! LMAO! Hilarious! n/t

[Trajan]

2. I know we want to be tolerant of posts that are critical of the President Elect ....

I just kinda doubt it will be viewed favorably ....

[Billy Burnett]

4. I'm critical of the latest position he stated. I have the greatest of hope ...

... that he will revise his position once more.

Of course that will require the majority of Americans who support ending this cruelty to speak up on it.

[Buzz Clik]

3. How many times are you going to post this?

[Billy Burnett]

5. Once here, and one vid on the vid forum.

Considering that there are many dozens of Palin threads ongoing here, are two freakin threads on this subject too much for you?

[Buzz Clik]

10. One time too many.

[cliffordu]

6. So fucking what?? Yesterday I wanted to go get new socks. Today I don't

Did I flip flop???


IBTL!!!!!

[Billy Burnett]

8. When your sock purchasing has the negative effect on 11 million humans then that'll matter.

US/Cuba policy does happen to influence US politics in a BIG way.

US/Cuba policy does happen to influence 11 million Cubans in a BIG way.

US/Cuba policy does happen to influence US international standing.


Your sock purchasing habits don't.

[cliffordu]

9. You should call him immediately. I'm sure he'll want to hear about my socks

and your take on his Cuba thingy.

[TexasObserver]

13. We don't use "flip flop" to describe OUR president.

Please don't repeat rightwing memes and themes, when talking about actions by our president.

You can discuss intelligently changes in political positions without slamming the president with GOP pejoratives.

[Billy Burnett]

32. If you allow the GOP to take over our language then liberal would be a pejorative too.

I hoping we have a real Liberal with Obama as president.

Does that offend you too, since you seem to have allowed the GOP to define pejoratives for you?

[TexasObserver]

46. Well, that didn't take long.

Time to write you off as too wacky.

You're a waste of time, so this is good bye.

Have fun yelling at the clouds.

[Billy Burnett]

47. OK. Bye.

You'll now have more time to play language police on other threads.

:hi:

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occam Bandage]

15. Oh, look. Someone who still thinks Obama is a "candidate." He won. Get over it.

[Billy Burnett]

19. Um. He made those comments as a candidate. He changed his position as a candidate.

When he came to Miami, as a candidate, he changed his position in an attempt to pander to the RW Cuban exile community he was speaking to in 2007.

[ecstatic]

22. And the people decided that it wasn't an issue nt

[Billy Burnett]

23. There was no serious choice.

Both candidates supported the same policy, despite public opinion on this one issue showing super majority support for ending sanctions, there was no choice.

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. Perhaps he became more educated on the issue and changed his views accordingly

[Hippo_Tron]

18. What is the justification for continuing the Cuban Embargo?

Its purpose was to destabilize the Castro regime and democratize Cuba. The embargo has been place for over 40 years now and it hasn't come close to doing either. Castro's grip on Cuba remained so strong that he had to be on the verge of death to hand over power even to his own brother.

The Cold War is over and Cuba isn't a national security threat anymore. Lets embrace them and trade with them like we did with China and Vietnam and then maybe they will start to embrace capitalism and democracy.

[Billy Burnett]

21. Seems that his change was against the wishes of the majority, and toward the RW position.

Maybe he did become more educated on the politics of the issue, but, based on his newest position in front of a Miami exile crowd, he's taken the less logical RW position that not only the majority of Americans want to change but also the vast majority of the global community - as evidenced in the recent UN vote condemning the US sanctions on Cuba.

His newest position seems less educated and more politically motivated to me.

[Freddie Stubbs]

24. Is the majority position always right?

:shrug:

[Billy Burnett]

28. No. But when the minority represents the interests of RW Cuban exiles, it should cause one to...

... question why the change in front of that pro embargo Miami crowd.

Almost everyone agrees, with the exceptions being the hardline RW exiles and those with financial and political interests that pander to them, that the US embargo has failed on multiple levels. It harms US international standing, it harms US trade/economy/jobs, and it harms the Cuban people.

I guess with Obama's latest Cuba policy statements (at least the statements he's made in Miami) that Uncle Sam will continue pissing into a strong wind.

[blondeatlast]

17. Well, I guess there's still time to elect CANDIDATE McCain but we'd better hurry.

Wait--oops.

Dammit.

POLITICS SUCKS!

[Billy Burnett]

20. I guess that the fact that as a candidate he changed positions depending on his audience.

In Chicago he was against sanctions.

In Miami he was for them.

Too nuanced for you? :shrug:

[blondeatlast]

25. I was funnin' ya.

But I don't think you like fun.

I apologize.

[Billy Burnett]

27. Sorry.

I didn't get it. Got caught up fending off charges of being a freeper

Thanks. I do like fun.

:hi:

[Doityourself]

36. How about we implement the wet foot/dry foot policy for all and not just Cubans! n/t

[Billy Burnett]

37. How about it?

Desperate Haitians, much worse off than Cubans in Cuba, are sent right back to Haiti if they make it to S Florida, as you probably know.

Some major differences in immigration policy: the US offers over 20,000 legal immigration visas to Cubans - more than any other nationality. That's how the vast majority of Cuban immigrants arrived in the US. The rafters and the Cubans smuggled in have reasons they don't have a legal visa -the US interests section in Cuba does the qualification background check required for any legal US immigration visa application.

The US's Wet Foot/ Dry Foot policy allows instant entry of any/all Cubans who make it here to stay and released within 24 hours- including known criminals to the US government. They get a clean new identity and many many perks available to Cubans only (instant work permit and green card in one year, instant SS, Medicare/Medicaid, instant access to section 8 housing, instant food stamps, etc, etc.).


I don't think we should duplicate that policy, but I do support fair immigration for desperate people.

[Max_powers94]

26. Your moms flip flop on your dad...and thats why you were born nt

[rug]

29. The Cuba Embargo last made sense when the Dave Clark 5 last had a hit.

The only point it serves today is as a poltical punching bag. At the expense of human beings.

[TexasObserver]

30. And I'm feelin' (ung-ung) glad all over!

[LittleClarkie]

31. You're kidding right?

That's not a flip flop. There are three years between those positions. That's a thoughtful man reconsidering his position.

They used to pull that shit on Kerry too. It was bullshit then, and it's bullshit now.

[Billy Burnett]

34. Look. There has been a lot of hopeful commentary on Obama's Cuba policy position.

Some people speculate the Obama is going to drop the Cuba sanctions and travel ban on Americans.

There is no evidence to support this.

In front of a Miami crowd he's revised his position to the RW extreme minority position regarding the sanctions.

I'm not really focusing on the words "flip flop" as some seem to be fixated on.

I'm focusing on his changed position, now supporting a failed and costly policy supported by a minority of RW foreign policy extremists. OK?

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Window]

38. What is the difference in flip-flopping and, upon further reflection and more info,

having an honest change of mind.

[POAS]

40. Not every flip flop

is bad and not every change of mind is good.

Reasons, results and consequences matter more than the actual change of position. Well, IMO anyway!

[Judi Lynn]

41. Absolutely true. Politicians can see befriending the controllers of Florida's 25 electoral votes

as something they court in their campaigns.

Dan Burton, Indiana, takes money from the Cuban community for his own state elections. He takes in more money from OUTSIDE Indiana than from within. He's sold, lock, stock, and barrel to these guys. He co-authored the (Jesse) Helms-Burton Act which created hideous hardships for the country's economy.

New Jersey Senator, Robert Torricelli used to staunchly oppose the embargo, began accepting money from the Cuban American National Foundation, eventually authored the Torricelli Act, which made the conditions of the Cuban embargo far more painful than they already were for Cubans.

Democratic Congressman David Skaggs from Colorado investigated the Radio/TV Marti broadcasts from South Florida, studied the horrendous costs to the U.S. taxpayers, around $30,000,000.00 per year, and told Congress that there's no need for the Cubans in South Florida to manage, produce, program, operate the two stations with all Cuban employees, since Cubans in Cuba can already GET American tv stations (in Spanish) from Miami, anyway, since they can pick up Miami commercial tv and radio stations themselves.

Florida Congressman Lincoln Diaz-Balart told Skaggs he was going to destroy every project for Colorado Skaggs held dear, and he did. Then he and the Cuban American National Foundation took out ads in Colorado newspapers and told the state that David Skaggs and lost their projects they wanted and needed, and Skaggs was never elected again. Skaggs says you're going to have a really bad day if you cross one of these guys.

You may remember when Elián Gonzalez was found drifting on an innertube after his mother's ex-convict boyfriend's boat cracked up and everyone on board other than the child, and one couple perished. There was a New Hampshire Republican goofball, a big goofy Senator Robert Smith who hovered over the family trying to keep the child from returning to his only remaining parent, his step-mother, his four grandparents, his step-baby-brother, his cousins, aunts, uncles, neighbors, and schoolmates. He was the one who even chartered at our taxpaying expense, an airplane to fly them all up right behind the airplane (like a heat-seeking missile) taking the child to the Air Force base near Washington, where he was to stay during the legal battles ahead. You also remember the government turned away good old Senator Bob Smith, dragging along a giant Easter Egg, or some such nonsense, and they weren't allowed inside, no matter how he huffed and puffed.

As U.S. former head of the American Interests Section in Havana, Wayne S. Smith said,

"Fidel Castro has had the same effect on successive US administrations as the full moon once had on the werewolf!"

[POAS]

42. Seems to me these Cuban nutballs

have had free reign over politics in south Florida for too long. There allegiance would seem to be with the long dead Batista and not with the USA.

The policies they promote have not helped the Cuban people in anyway in no small part because those policies are punitive rather than constructive. Their antipathy towards the poor that brought about their downfall when they held the reigns of power in Cuba has not waned in the 50 years since Castro took power. If they are ever allowed back into power in Cuba again the result would be, IMO, disastrous.

[Billy Burnett]

43. That's why it's upsetting that Obama has flipped his position to the RW position.

US/Cuba policy must change. Sadly, I think we're in for more of the same in this arena. :(

The Miamicuban professional exiles have no real interest in reclaiming Cuba nor in helping Cuba. They are entrenched in US politics - and that includes the payola loop of our tax dollars to the myriad of "Free Cuba" study groups and foundations, plus the supersized boondoggle Radio and TV Marti, that litter Miami's landscape. Hundreds of millions every year - that recent GAO studies have revealed that over 80% of said funds are skimmed off the top for "overhead", CEO bonuses, and pricey gifts (and political campaigns).

Shameful thing is, just as Obama mentions, politicians come to Miami to pander with get-tough on Castro language and promises (meaning: increased funding for Miamicubano exile anti Castro industries) in exchange for political/financial support (our tax dollars looping back to political coffers).

Too bad that Mr Obama appears to have done the same thing.

[Window]

44. Well stated.

Peace:thumbsup:

[Judi Lynn]

39. This Washington Post article touches on why almost ALL politicians seem to bend

during campaign periods, due to the fact the Miami "exiles," which, unfortunately is STILL controlled by the right-wing, terrorist-funding fanatical reactionaries, underwriting violent, occassionally murderous campaigns against Cuba, with Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, whose original campaign mangager was _{Jeb Bush,} who ran originally on a promise to get a pardon for Cuban "exile" bomber/mass murderer/terrorist Orlando Bosch, and Lincoln Diaz-Balart, nephew of Fidel Castro's ex-wife, Mirta Diaz-Balart, son of former Cuban Speaker of the House, United Fruit attorney, and Cabinet Member of bloody butcher, US puppet Fulgencio Batista, and Lincoln Diaz-Balart's brother, Mario Diaz-Balart, who had the rare luxury of being able to create by gerrymandering his own future new Federal House of Representative district while still a Congressman in the Florida House of Representatives, before he got out, ran for that seat, and took it.

These Congress people have been in Miami from the time the First Wave "exiles" set in motion a bloody era of bombing and terrorism which earned Miami the FBI designation as "America's Terror Capital." Cuban exile politicians running the machine have been known nationwide years in advance of the Gore-_Bush campaign in 2000, for their extraordinarily dirty politics and ballot fraud. Their metropolitan corruption is in a class of its own. Their city commissioners even named a day of the year for one of their own terrorists, Orlando Bosch Day.

They control Florida politics, and the 25 electors. When it appeared Gore was likely to win Florida outright, they conspired to elect a new slate immediately, as soon as Gore was declared the winner, to vote for _Bush, anyway.

Human Rights Watch issued a statement that the First Amendment rights are in jeopardy in Miami due to their political oppression of ALL oppositional expression, to the extreme. People voicing support of establishing a diplomatic relationship with Cuba have been bombed. People, like radio station talk show host, Emilio Milián, who publicly begged for an end to the excessive poltical violence, was himself carbombed, and they can expect similar fates. It convinced former Miami Herald publisher David Lawrence, once he and his employees started getting death threats after the president of the Cuban American National Foundation, and employer of terrorists like Orlando Bosch, and Luis Posada Carriles, etc., Jorge Mas Canosa voiced anger at Herald's coverage of Cuba news, to start having professional people go over his and his wife's cars every day before starting them, due to his fear they would be murdered that way, too.

This Washington Post article does touch on the power of that faction to influence politicians. It was written in 2007:

Obama Calls for Easing Cuba Embargo

By LAURA WIDES-MUNOZ
The Associated Press
Tuesday, August 21, 2007; 12:34 AM

MIAMI -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is leaping into the long-running Cuba debate by calling for the U.S. to ease restrictions for Cuban-Americans who want to visit the island or send money home.

Obama's campaign said Monday that, if elected, the Illinois senator would lift restrictions imposed by the Bush administration and allow Cuban-Americans to visit their relatives more frequently, as well as ease limits on the amount of money they can send to their families.

~snip~
The Cuban-exile vote is considered key to winning Florida, and top presidential candidates have generally followed the recommendations of the community's most hard-line and vocal leaders, who support a full embargo against Fidel Castro's government. Castro, 80, is in poor health and turned over temporary power last year to his brother Raul.

~snip~
"It shows courage, and it shows commitment to move beyond the status-quo politics of rhetoric, which is all the Cuban-American community has received from any party for the last half century," said Garcia, a former head of the Cuban-American Foundation, a leading exile group.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/20/AR2007082002016.html

[Billy Burnett]

45. Article points out that Obama's policy will create a special class of citizen/resident.

All Americans and residents will be banned from Cuba EXCEPT Cubans with family in Cuba.

Cuban resident aliens and Cuban-Americans will have their full travel rights restored while the rest of us remain travel sanctioned.

The ultimate in pandering to a special interest. :puke: