Some of us weren't crazy about Hillary Clinton BEFORE the primaries.

[Barack_America]

So this assumption that posters critical of Hillary's politics, experience, etc. are just "stuck in primary mode" isn't accurate.

Ironically, my overall opinion of Hillary has actually skyrocketed in the past 6 mos. or so (well above my pre-primary impression). But that still doesn't mean that I think she's a natural pick for any given cabinet position.

It seems to me that part of "letting the primaries go" is ceasing to assume that everyone else is still thinking about the primaries.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Let the flaming begin.

[Ian David]

1. I just don't want to start poaching Democrats out of The Senate.

Give the job to Olympia Snowe.

[babylonsister]

6. ...

:rofl:

[Sebastian Doyle]

20. We may need Olympia Snowe somewhere down the road.

When we need 60 votes on something that Lieberdouche doesn't agree with, for example.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

22. Hillary should be Seante leader

[ddeclue]

30. Seance leader?

:shrug:

[JVS]

31. That's Nancy Reagan's job

[Rosa Luxemburg]

38. senate

[Ozma]

72. Some might think that would be cool, but it ignores

the rules of the Senate, and all the OTHER Senators who have been there longer than Hillary, have "earned" their place, chaired committees, etc. It just doesn't work that way just because she's a woman we all know.

[BlueCaliDem]

2. No flaming from me. I totally agree with your post. n/t

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Barack_America]

5. Really?

Wow.

[liberalmuse]

15. LOL, yeah.

When someone posts something that ends with, 'flame away', the devil in me comes out.

I should add that while I would rather have Kerry or Richardson as SoS, I really am sick to death of the Hillary bashing here. And this is coming from a person that is neutral. Granted, I used to base my criteria on who I would date if they made a stupid Hillary joke in the '90's. I considered those guys complete losers and wanted nothing to do with them. In retrospect, I was 100% right.

[Buzz Clik]

9. Meh. The OP was quite rational.

[babylonsister]

4. I agree with everything you wrote. My esteem has also

skyrocketed so I won't be dissing her, and no one really knows what's going on. I'm waiting for an official word before wasting energy on anything negative. And if Clinton gets the position, there's a reason. That applies to everyone Obama selects.

[Barack_America]

8. Totally agree. It might not make sense to me, but it makes sense to him.

And I trust his judgment. That is, after all, why I campaigned and voted for him!

:hi:

[ruggerson]

16. You're assuming she would take it

though I tend to believe she wouldn't fly out to Chicago if she wasn't interested.

[babylonsister]

19. Not really. I'm hoping her interests lie elsewhere. We shall see. nt

[ruggerson]

23. I agree, I think she can do far more in the Senate, but, hey, it's her call

[Barack_America]

21. I've heard reports...

That's she's being blocked in the Senate for more power and possibly even a chairmanship.

If that's the case I do hope she gets a seat in the Obama administration. She deserves to have a voice. We need her to have a strong voice. I've always thought that her passion was domestic politics, but if SOS is what they decide on, I'm okay with that.

[babylonsister]

26. Who'd you hear those from, Andrea Mitchell who has a lot invested

in seeing Clinton in this position, because she broke the story?

Grain of salt-take it with that.

[Barack_America]

27. No, even worse...

People who heard from Andrea Mitchell.

:blush:

But there have been rumblings about Hillary's desire for influence clashing with the Senate's seniority system for some time. So I wouldn't be entirely surprised if some of these recent rumors are true.

[babylonsister]

I have a question...

would she be interested in being vetted? :shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7869979&mesg_id=7870158

[Barack_America]

29. Can't help there.

I had the same question myself, lol.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7867976&mesg_id=7867976

[chimpymustgo]

7. I wasn't crazy about Hillary before the primaries, but grew to respect her greatly during them.

And believe you me, too many Dems go freeper-like when her name comes up. Clearly Obama has reached out to Hillary. Don't blame her for that!

[Captain Hilts]

37. I learned to like both Obama and Clinton a LOT more during the primaries. nt

[onehandle]

10. You're stuck in primary mode. Let the primaries go.

I didn't support Hillary in the primaries and I let it go. Why not you?

[Barack_America]

14. .

:P

[HeraldSquare212]

11. Well said.

[Political Tiger]

12. Hillary was my original pick for president

But then the more I saw of Obama I changed my mind and became an Obama supporter. I did get mad at Hillary during the primaries, but any anger I had towards Hillary has long since dissipated, and once again I think the world of her! However I'm not so sure she's the right one for SOS but on the other hand if she is offered the job and accepts it I will support that because I have trust in Obama's judgment and Hillary's ability to carry out her duties.

[customerserviceguy]

13. I'll admit I also wasn't that crazy about her before the primaries

and I was quite the minority around here, preferring Sen. Obama over Sen. Clinton.

But, it seems that he's making a possible move to deal with her responsibly. He could satisfy her and Bill by making her Secretary of State. She could travel around the globe, and they would truly be a "power couple" repairing our relations with the people of the world. Clearly, Bill's tsunami work with Bush the Elder was about mending fences with the globe, of course, his aim was that it be for Hillary's benefit as President, but I'm sure he'd do it for her career at State.

It's not a bad position for her if she still wants the big prize. She gets a high profile, and even though Joe Biden is only a few years older than her, she can have something to stand on for 2016. I doubt he'll even try to run for President again, his acceptance of the #2 slot seemed to me to be acknowledging that he wants to make his mark on American history from that spot.

[vanderBeth]

17. No flames from me

I agree.

[Bethany Rockafella]

18. "Some of us weren't crazy about Hillary Clinton BEFORE the primaries."

Why do you think some of you were labeled as "Clinton-haters"?

[Barack_America]

24. Skepticism does not equal "hatred".

Criticism does not equal hatred.

[Beacool]

45. Good point!!!

:7

[mkultra]

75. yup, this kind of idiot post is pretty characteristic

Not like != hate.

If you can stretch this kind of comment into the HATE range then i say go ahead and ill play along just to piss you off.


Fuck Hillary Clinton! how do you like that?

[Arugula Latte]

113. I was going to post a "OMG you are a Hillary Hater!" post in jest ...

but then of course someone posted one for real. :eyes:

I swear, that equation of criticism/disagreement of Hillary = HATE got so freaking old and pathetic during the primaries.

[catgirl]

25. Having the ability to be diplomatic is key here

and as much as I admire Hillary for her perseverance, I'm not sure she's the best choice here.

[globalvillage]

34. Exactly.

How about Homeland Security? She'd be kick-ass. I'd ask her to re-name it, though.

[sunnybrook]

110. What about working in areas that she has been passionate about

Healthcare, domestic policy.... I understand that she knows most of the world leaders and is high profile and all of that, but she has worked her whole life on children's issues and healthcare and all that. SOS? What is really in that for her future? I love Hillary, so don't think I don't but I was a little creeped out at her Robert Kennedy reference during the primaries, and to have her, what 4th in line? Not too cool....

[SoxFan]

28. No flames here.

There are plenty of reasons not to care for her, and most of them predate the primaries.

[DU GrovelBot]

32. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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This week is our fourth quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
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[Barack_America]

35. Grovelbot, just get over the primaries already!

God!

;)

I love seeing Grovelbot in one of my threads!

Alright, alright, you've inspired me to donate. :P

[Life Long Dem]

33. No flaming this post or Hillary.

[Waiting For Everyman]

36. Hillary ended it well, but she didn't need to

be self-absorbed enough to do McC's dirty work for him. Any Dem (adult presumably) should have enough self-control not to create issues and statements during the primary that could be used in the GE to destroy another Dem candidate. Duh. That should be an ironclad rule if it isn't common sense. And she acted like a baby when she lost until she was forced by Dem leaders (who sensed public opinion) to behave better. She didn't seem to grasp that Obama's win was just as much history as what she was shooting for. That was a time for graciousness and thinking of the voters above all (all of them, not just hers).

She did recover her image well though, once she tried. But her "crazies" were just that. I never want a President elected to break any ceiling. Obama understood that.

So she rehabilitated herself somewhat in my eyes, but impressive she wasn't. I do think she has learned from it, and will do a good job if offered one in the cabinet. But she needs to watch her ambition and ruthlessness tendency. She has a little of that amoral "say anything" impulse (or maybe it was her advisors).

And btw, I was not a partisan at DU nor with the Obama campaign at that point, that was my opinion of it as just another "interested voter", watching the news - I had my own issues I had to concentrate on then. (Still do, but I gave up thinking I could solve them.)

[Beacool]

47. Did it ever occur to you that half of the voters wanted Hillary and not Obama?

Why do you think that more registered Democrats voted for her and she won by wide margins most primaries from March through June?

It had nothing to do with self absorption. She stayed in the race because she honestly thought that she was the best candidate for the job. Also, thousands of her supporters kept asking her not to quit. We wanted her to stay in the race.

She would have made a great president and I hope that she runs again in the future.

;-)

[Waiting For Everyman]

71. She hurt the GE candidate bigtime - to benefit HERSELF.

Yes, I call that self-absorbed. I don't think I'm the only one who has that opinion of her.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

102. Yup, she sure did hurtObama big time in the GE -- whew! What a nailbiter!

:eys:

[AllentownJake]

56. Her doing "McCain's dirty work"

Innoculated Obama against McCain's attacks in September.

All the BS the GOP would have used against Obama was brought out in March/April and we didn't deal with an October surprise.

I believe she was fighting for the nomination but at the end of the day the things she did that everyone complains about ended up helping us in November.

[Waiting For Everyman]

73. Helping after they hurt - nice rationalization.

Having a Dem say those things in commercials was much more to overcome than McC saying them. Biden did it too, but not as bad (well, the gaffe at the end was as bad, but wasn't intentional). It's stupid to do.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

39. Exactly! It was her DLC policies and allegiances that turned me off.

[Beacool]

48. Well, since most of those same people are in his transition team,

Obama must not think that the DLC is a bad word.

:shrug:

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

68. He doesn't, and that's why he wasn't my first choice. Kucinich was...

It took me a long time to come home to Obama, and ironically, a white conservative Republican who was an Obama supporter, finally convinced me to vote for him.

[zulchzulu]

40. All I can say is...

...let's sing!

Kumbaya
www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MiD_U4CHQ

Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya
Oh lord, kumbaya

Someones singing lord, kumbaya
Someones singing lord, kumbaya
Someones singing lord, kumbaya
Oh lord, kumbayah

Someones laughing, lord, kumbaya
Someones laughing, lord, kumbaya
Someones laughing, lord, kumbaya
Oh lord, kumbaya

Someones crying, lord, kumbaya
Someones crying, lord, kumbaya
Someones crying, lord, kumbaya
Oh lord, kumbaya

Someones praying, lord, kumbaya
Someones praying, lord, kumbaya
Someones praying, lord, kumbaya
Oh lord, kumbaya

Someones sleeping, lord, kumbaya
Someones sleeping, lord, kumbaya
Someones sleeping, lord, kumbaya
Oh lord, kumbaya
Oh lord, kumbaya

[femrap]

41. Why are we talking about HRC

when there is Rahm to discuss? Isn't HE a HUGE DLCer that everyone here at DU hates? Yet HE is the Chief of State Elect.

Let's flame now.

I actually thought Kerry would be good at State. I wanted HRC on the Supreme Court, but word is she doesn't want that...so maybe she should like to lead The Senate....and get rid of that mouse, Reid from Nevada.

[Barack_America]

85. That's a fair point.

[Metric System]

42. That's nice.

[joshcryer]

43. Yes, it's pretty common knowledge that the RW media successfully trashed Hillary and Bill.

It's so common knowledge that people who claim to dislike either of them at any point of time can easily be seen to merely be falling for the bullshit.

[Arugula Latte]

115. The RW didn't make up the comments both of them uttered during the primary.

The "Jesse Jackson won S.C." comment by Bill, the "two of the three" of us are experienced enough to run the country, the "hardworking Americans, white Americans" comment -- etc. I saw and heard those clips with my own eyes and ears.

[Beacool]

44. Hey, some of us weren't crazy about Obama during the primaries.

So?

:shrug:

[JVS]

46. Here at DU, it's customary to unify behind the nominee.

GOBAMA!

[Beacool]

49. If someone can open a thread stating that their dislike for Hillary goes back to the primary,

then I can point out that half of the party preferred her over Obama. What's the point of opening a thread on this subject at this point in time?

Customary, but not obligatory. Plenty of Republicans didn't support McCain, for example.

:eyes:

[JVS]

50. You failed to understand the essence of the OP. The OP discusses disliking HRC before the primaries

It has nothing to do with the primaries.

[joshcryer]

51. Yeah, but it fails to acknowledge where that disrespect comes from.

It's not a reflection of reality, but rather an irrational result of a heated primary campaign along with years of abuse toward a politician.

[Beacool]

52. Thank you!!

:hi:

[marimour]

53. So if someone didn't like Hillary b4 the primaries then they are being irrational?

I get it. You think Hillary is awesome and the fact that others don't agree upsets you and in your mind can only be based on them being irrational, not the fact that Hillary is a human who is flawed like we all are. With the way some people talk you would think Hillary walked on water or something!

[joshcryer]

57. People are the same on both sides.

But to pretend as if the irrationality is equal is pretty absurd.

[marimour]

59. what does that matter?

Its not equal b/c he has more supporters than she does. Thats why he won the primaries. But nonetheless, playing the role of DU victims for Hillary or Obama and whining that "I'm more of a victim than you" is a waste.

[joshcryer]

67. It has nothing to do with victimization, merely a call for rational civility.

I assure you were it any other way I'd be saying the same things.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

69. It assumes that we don't care about her actual policies or her record. It also presumes that we are

irrational people, incapable of making decisions based on facts rather than our feelings. Don't criticize the Clintons or their policies, they argue. It amounts to hatred towards the Clintons. I never understood that line of thinking, but those who worship the Clintons on this forum are guilty of doing exactly what they are accusing others of doing: allowing their emotion and devotion to the Clintons to discount any rational, valid argument that is unfavorable to the Clintons.

Listen, we had 8 great years of the Clintons, but it doesn't mean that everything they did was right. I am a liberal, which means that I don't support the DLC. The Clintons are DLC Democrats. So naturally I don't agree with many of their pro-corporate, often neocon like policy positions. And much of Hillary's voting record made me cringe. That doesn't mean that I hate the Clintons. I don't agree with their DLC policies. Period. That was well before the Democratic primaries.

[yourguide]

89. No, that is incorrect

She has always been a polarizing figure. Going into the primaries she had her unfavorables at 50%, that ballooned to 54% in April.

Thats not just republicans and Independents.

Why cant some on this board grasp that she has always been a polarizing figure and some dems didnt like her before the primaries, some during, and some after?

Just like there are some dems like Reid, Pelosi, and Lieberman that are disliked by other dems, there are some dems who dont like HRC. Plain and simple. And those of us posting here that dont like her are growing weary of being bullied by the loyalists and zealots who cant grasp that she's polarizing.

[Barack_America]

91. I purposely did not list the reasons I am leery of the Clintons.

The point of the OP wasn't to discuss that. Nor was the OP designed to discuss which Cabinet positions I would or would not want Hillary appointed to.

The point of the OP was to merely to ask people to not assume that all Clinton skepticism is rooted in grievances over the primaries. Many of us are "over the primaries" and have simply returned to our original feelings regarding the Clintons (or have actually improved those feelings).

[Barack_America]

86. So, if Hillary had been elected and was about to appoint Obama to a cabinet position...

I would hope that we could listen to skepticism regarding that appointment without claiming that people were "just stuck in the primaries".

That's all.

[AllentownJake]

54. Here is my issue with the Hillary bashing from an Obama primary and GE team leader

One of the friends I made during the General Election was a Hillary Supporter. She had poured alot of time into the PA primary probably about 40-60 hours a week. However, in July she came to one of our tables and asked how can I help. She wasn't sure what to expect and luckily she got me and another team leader and not some of the people who post on here because we assured her she was welcome.

Now, this particular Hillary supporter organized Hillary Supporter outreach. She got list from the primary she had and others had and recruited volunteers to do persuasion calls and canvassing. She was able to be more convincing than I ever would be because she supported Hillary during the primary and amongst the core Hillary volunteers locally she had a lot of street credibility. After that phase of the campaigning was done around mid-September she was a co Team leader with one of my friends and did a fucking amazing job.

She shares almost every view politically I do except she thinks meat is murder and I think it is yummy. Hillary spoke to her more than Obama did. Obama spoke to me more than Hillary did. Other than that there isn't a hell of alot of difference between the two of us.

At this time I could not suggest her posting here or reading here. That makes me sad and frankly a little disapointed in this community. We WON. Hillary didn't cost us a damn thing. Its time to be grown-ups suck it up and welcome our brother's and sisters who supported first Hillary and than Obama. Outright bashing of the person they spent alot of hard work fighting for isn't exactly the way to do that.

You can disagree with Hillary being SOS. You can not like Hillary. But you should keep in mind there are alot of good democrats who do the work on the ground for free who you are pissing on. Be respectful and gracious winners 6 months after the fact is all I'm asking.

[Metric System]

64. Thank you for your posts. It's one thing to criticize Hillary on policy, it's another to engage in

borderline obsessive negative attacks against her (one particular poster comes to mind, but there's NoSense in naming names).

[Barack_America]

77. Please explain to me how I "pissed" on Hillary...

By saying that I preferred her in the Senate Majority role rather than SOS.

I still don't get it.

:shrug:

[AllentownJake]

117. It was a general statement on the reaction

My thread go locked before I could answer your question on the other one so it was also a response to that.

[Barack_America]

119. Gotcha.

It's all good.

And I'm not sure why they locked your thread anyway. Weird.

[yourguide]

78. And I would suggest

that some Hillary supporters respect the fact that there are some Dems who dont like her.

AGAIN, going into the primaries she already had an unfavorable rating of 50%, I can assure you all 50% werent just republicans and independents. That unfavorability rating shot up to 54% in April.

The truth is she has always been a polarizing figure, even within this party, so just like there are dems who dont like reid, pelosi, & LIEberman, there are dems that didnt like HRC prior to the primary.

If Hillary zealots are too dense to grasp that she polarizes people within the party, and cant deal with the fact that there are some dems who simply dont like her and are critical of her well that's their problem. This is a discussion board, not a board to cheerlead everyone with a D in front of his and her name.

Yes we should be gracious winners but there should also be room for other opinions than worship of HRC.

[Barack_America]

81. Thank you!

Seriously, thank you. Can we appoint you official go between for the opposing Clinton camps?

Hillary is a polarizing figure. Always has been and always will be. And that is largely because she is a master at playing politics. So it's not really surprising that people not fond of political gamesmanship wouldn't be exceptionally fond of the Clintons. But, as I tried to say in the OP, this summer the Clintons really put their Dem allegiances first and I both respected and admired that. Has it washed away all of my suspicions regarding them? No, but I definitely see them in a much, much more positive light.

I still don't want Hillary as SOS though. I simply think that there are better people for that job and better jobs for her (Majority Leader or HHS come to mind).

[yourguide]

87. I have been so flamed by the Clinton loyalists

Posting the same thing on other threads, including a threatening post by a specific snake which was fortunately deleted by the mods.

The truth of the matter is I had a slightly unfavorable view of her before the primaries which ballooned into a totally unfavorable view of her during the primaries, and am now back to where I started before the primaries.

I want to thank you for posting this thread tho, I wish the loyalists could grasp that she quite simply is a polarizing figure, even within the party and we all have differing opinions about her.

It seems that everyone on this board is entitled to their own opinion, except when it comes to disagreeing with HRC.

Again, I thank you for your OP.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

103. Excellent post -- your friend and I feel the same

My wife is Lostinva, and I know she thanked you yesterday for actually having empathy with this issue.I thank you, too.

[Trajan]

55. LOTS of people arent too crazy about Hillary ....

Many of them are right wing zealots ....

While I appreciate free speech, by all means, we are not in primary mode, and we are not in general election mode: We are in post-election/pre-executive mode ....

Funny thing about this, though: Anti-Hillary expression seems the same, whether from right wingers or from Democrats .... While she was never my first choice, she is a respected member of the Democratic party, and a favorite of MANY Democrats in that party ... enough to warrant minimal respect, if not our outright devotion ...

This is our moment ... Our time has come as a party to unite in government behind the President elect .... It is hardly the moment to reignite the petty peeves of the past ....

The complaints of the Anti-Hillary forces are duly noted .... Yet if Obama chooses her, then who are you to place your own petty needs above the unity of our party ? .... Who is placing ego above community ?

Sorry .... But I am not seeing a egalitarian component to this complaint .... I see selfish neediness ...

DU is a forum that supports the Democratic party .... Hillary has a prominent role in that party ....

Expressing a strong Anti-Hillary viewpoint is acceptable free speech, but not necessarily appreciated in DU ....

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

70. Many of them were right wing zealots, but many of them are truly liberals like me who disagree

strongly with her DLC policies.

If Obama chooses her, then so be it. I have faith that he knows what he's doing. Doesn't mean that I have to like it simply because it's Hillary Clinton. I don't agree with all of Clinton's policies. I don't even agree with everything Obama stands for. But, I also have every right to voice those opinions. It seems as though Clinton worshippers on this forum are always attempting to silence any criticism of the Clintons, no matter how valid those criticisms are. It reminds me a lot of the right wing zealots who stifle dissent and viewpoints different from their own. This is dogma at its finest and that is very scary for me.

[yourguide]

76. Correct

Her negatives were at 50% BEFORE the primaries began.

What the zealots here dont grasp is there are many dems that dont like her now, didnt like her before the primaries.

[Trajan]

97. I take issue with being identified as a 'Zealot'

Which commonly denotes an extremist who embraces exclusion ...

Those who are defending Hillary are not just 'Hillary supporters', but Democratic party members who embrace INCLUSION, including Hillary and her supporters, into the whole rich party fabric ....

It is an embrace of UNITY ... not division ....

So it is zealotry to wish to embrace ALL Democrats and unify them into a great party ?

Nonsense ...

Given the choice between eliminating Hillary and her supporters from the Democratic party, and keeping you ....versus, instead, the choice of including ALL Obama supporters, Biden supporters, Kucinich supporters, Webb supporters, Hillary supporters, and Richardson supporters, et al, into ONE big unified Democratic party ....

Well .... Your divisive self would be kicked to the curb ....

I did not support Hillary OR Obama during the primaries: But I support both now ....

I am hardly a zealot ....

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

104. If you're not a zealot, then my post was not directed as you, but there seems to be a lot of

those folks around these parts that simply do not like dissent, even if it's directed at Obama. I am an independent thinker and when I think Hillary, the Clintons, Obama, or whomever is wrong, I will voice that opinion. There are dogmatic people on this board who can't seem to accept that there are opinions that differ from their own and so every criticsm gets turned into "hatred" of said person being criticized. That's zealotry and it's scary.

[Trajan]

105. We all know there are opinions that are completely against the Democratic party

The question is: How much is too much ?

I think the point of DU since it's inception was to support the Democratic party, and that it is the primary role of this forum to express opinions in support of the party .... SURE: Dissent is accepted from a primary Democratic party viewpoint, but I dont believe it is acceptable to come to DU, and spread a message of criticism against the Democratic party or its members, ad infinitum ....

That isn't the point of DU, and that is expressed in the forum rules everyone signs onto when they join DU ....

There is plenty of room on the internets to declare extremely UNdemocratic party positions, and everyone is free to use those avenues of expression : But DU is not one of those forums ....

David created DU as a means to help like minded Democrats seek solace after the 2000 debacle, and to help bring the Democrats to power, eventually, by supporting Democrats and the party as they struggle to achieve power .... Skinner of course allows dissent from the Democratic party line (whatever that is) and certainly allows expressions by those who would criticize elements of policy, strategy and tactics and the like, but everybody understands he has to draw the line somewhere ....

Where is that line ? .. When does a critic cross the line ? It is hard to say .... Do they complain about their free speech rights when they cross the line of acceptable criticism ? Surely they do ....

DU members dont decry Free speech, but they do limit ANTI-Democratic party speech to anywhere but DU .... DU suspends the accounts of many DUers every week ... There have been wholesale departures of nominal Democrats during periods of stress .... So it is obvious that there are limits to how much Anti-Democratic party rhetoric will be tolerated ....

I personally find it hard to tolerate those who would use their own petty peeves to upend Democratic party initiatives that are, on the whole, supported by the majority of Democratic party members .... I find it difficult to accept that we as a party should defer to a few individuals because of a minute point of policy they may disagree with .....

I will usually say something to those who promote a divisive message .... We lose when we divide ....

We all give up some small things as individuals to achieve greater things as a party .... That is how we develop a consensus ... That is how we win ....

In the end: It is up to David and the moderators what statements have crossed the line ... I am glad I dont have that job ....

[Trajan]

96. DU is a PRO Democratic party forum

Now is our moment .... We are on the way to taking control of government ...

The differences is philosophy between a Hillary versus a Richardson versus an Obama are so minuscule, one would have to really stretch to find any ....

I am no big Hillary fan, but I am an Obama fan, and a fan of a unified Democratic party ....

I dont have to be a Clinton worshiper to recognize gratuitous condemnation from perpetual complainers who will NEVER be happy enough to unify with the rest of our party members, due to the imperfection of one or another of the many members of the Democratic party leadership ....

Obama has won the Presidency .... He is offering a cabinet position to Hillary Clinton, a respected member of the Democratic party with many supporters here in DU ....

You intend to continually deride her here in DU ? ... Even if Obama chooses her ?

You are free to say whatever you wish ... nobody is stopping you from speaking ...

But it is hardly endearing or inspiring to bring down someone who enjoys much support by her party and her President .... It is the opposite of unity : It is division ....

And for what ? ... Are the reasons you choose to demean her and conflict with her supporters here really worth it to us as a party ? .... Do we really want to let every qualm percolate into a full fledged tumult every time a Democrat disagrees with a Democrat ? ... Well: I cannot imagine that happening ... Can you ? :sarcasm:

Unless you plan to make this a REAL effort to remove Hillary from the Democratic party, or from being offered a cabinet seat in an Obama Administration, then you are just blowing smoke up DU's collective arse ...

I suppose I should just get used to DUers walking around here with bloodied swords ...

[TexasObserver]

58. I wasn't crazy about her before the primaries, and livid with her during them.

But she and Bill, and even Chelsea, came through for Obama in key states down the stretch, when he really needed it. Their roles in helping him win Pennsylvania, Indiana, Ohio and Florida were significant. They helped him pick up votes in the demos he most needed.

Hillary proved during the debates that she has a real command of the issues, and that she is good at understanding as she says them the impact of her answers to key political questions.

If Obama appoints her, it will send a strong message to the leaders of the world that this is strong president, a person who can appoint his vanquished opponent, and call upon her best talents. I think it's a brilliant move, exactly the kind of brilliance I expect from Obama.

[Trajan]

60. Damn that was well spoken .....

I could not have said it better ....

A great perspective .... thanks ...

[TexasObserver]

63. Thanks! My best insights into Obama come from reading The Audacity of Hope.

I got it and read it much earlier in the year. I was an Edwards supporters until he folded, and immediately moved to Obama, because I felt he was bringing something that could result in a big win. I felt like Hillary as our nominee would have been rehashing the Clinton administration. Obama had the fresh face, and he excited a whole bunch of new voters.

So I got his book and read it. As the campaign wound on, I saw where he acted consistently with the things he stated repeatedly in his book. Now he's implementing his plan, and he's going to assemble the most impressive Cabinet in memory. He's demonstrating right now his commitment to make peace with Hillary and McCain, to give them respect, and to show everyone that he intends to use these two stalwarts in his work.

I'm excited about seeing the most prepared president, in terms of his vision, of any president since I first paid attention in the election of 1960. This guy really knows what he wants to do, and how he wants to do it. He's going to instill confidence, and he's going to try to split the GOP between those like Lugar, Hagel, Snowe, and Collins, and those like Palin and her ilk.

THE AUDACITY OF HOPE is the key to understanding what Obama is now doing. It's clear in there he will bring former foes and Republicans into his administration.

[Barack_America]

80. You do realize that appointing Hillary as SOS takes her out of domestic politics?

I always considered domestic politics her "best talents". If Obama really wanted to go toe to toe with Hillary where she disagrees with him, he would appoint her to HHS.

[TexasObserver]

82. Are you trying to be funny? That's clearly in the "no duh" department.

[Barack_America]

83. Not at all. And I read your post before you edited, so I'll try to respond to it.

That's just how Secretary of State works. They are in the executive branch in the capacity of foreign policy. As such, they aren't really able to participate in domestic politics. They can't voice their support for various policies, politicians, etc. So if Hillary were to disagree with Obama's domestic policies as SOS she wouldn't be able to voice dissent. At least not directly, and I shudder to think how nasty the politics could get if disagreement was communicated through other people.

In any case, I've always thought that Hillary was a strong voice on domestic policy issues and I think it would be a shame to not hear it.

[TexasObserver]

90. Of course the Secretary of State handles foreign, not domestic, issues.

Do you really think anyone who pays any attention to politics at all doesn't know that?

Your comment was purposefully annoying, and I treated it as such.

[Barack_America]

92. It wasn't intended to be.

Sorry if I somehow insulted your command of politics. That wasn't the intent.

ETA:
But as for your argument that a SOS appointment suggests that Obama is willing to stand up to Hillary, I disagree. I believe it rather suggests the opposite. That was the point of my original reply to you.

[TexasObserver]

94. Obama is stronger than you give him credit for being.

I suggest you read The Audacity of Hope, if you wish to understand what Obama is doing with his cabinet.

[mwei924]

61. I liked her a lot before the primary but I just liked Obama more.

The whole primary season turned me off Hillary (though mostly Bill). Nothing wrong with campaigning hard to win but when it was late in the game and she was getting desperate, I didn't appreciate her campaign trying to undermine Obama's delegate lead by flip-flopping on Florida/Michigan and then playing the super-delegates. A lot of that was her crappy campaign team not necessarily herself though so when she gave a full endorsement of Obama and campaigned for him, the primary was old news. In hindsight, the long drawn out primary was perfect in setting up Obama against McCain.

No one would say she's unqualified to be Secretary of State. Yes, she has some less than ideal positions on foreign policy but she'll be working for Obama. There are other people to consider who are equally if not more qualified but who share Obama's worldview more but who may not be as effective as Hillary. It'll be up to him to decide which factors to weight more and who will be the best at the job.

[rogerballard]

62. No matter what, I appreciate the fact that Bill and Hillary are Democrats...

No matter what the capacity Hillary might fill, it will be to the benefit of the Democratic party, she could go anywhere she pleases and anywhere that President Obama might ask her to go, weather some of us agree or not, I think Hillary in ANY position would benefit us. SOS, Supreme Court Justice, etc..., no matter what has happened with Bill and Hillary in the past, we need them!

[TheWraith]

65. Kicked and recommended!

Some of us haven't forgotten that she was all for the war in Iraq right up until it became unpopular, or a dozen other huge negatives.

So many DUers use the smallest excuse to shred any elected Dem, yet with a laundry list of major transgressions Hillary is still popular. Go figure.

[AtomicKitten]

95. *

:thumbsup:

[apocalypsehow]

66. Never had a problem with the Jr. Senator from New York: some of her racist scumbag sycophants

who repeatedly smeared president-elect Obama, indulged in group-attack tactics (with a silly toad gif raging in the background, of all things), and who consistently lied about their opposites here, OTOH, I had a a lot of problems with.

You regular defenders of such scum - those of you who are still here, that is :rofl: - can fuck off. Your pals were worse freepers - at least freepers are being honest while being stupid - and those 'pals' of yours are thankfully gone from here.

:thumbsup:

[Hepburn]

74. Ditto....particularly about how my opinion of Hillary has become more favorable. n/t

[Irishonly]

79. I have learned to trust

Sometimes I really don't understand Obama's choices but I am just as sure he doesn't loose any sleep over it. Both of them wanted to win the primary. Obama won and Hillary did an outstanding job supporting him and healing the democratic party. The primaries are over. Hillary and Obama have moved on as we all should.

Girls know now they can be president.

[SwampG8r]

84. im a little tired of seeing

"hater" applied to every criticism

[L0oniX]

88. I suppose with Clinton we would have gotten back Madeline Albright & Warren Christopher too

Hell ...lets bring back Janet Reno too while their at it.

[davsand]

93. Seems to me that there is so much to be done second guessing is probably a bad plan.

I think we are in a bad enough situation right now in our country that we have ONE hope, and that is to unite behind President Obama. He IS the smartest MF in the room and I'm willing to run with whoever he selects for damn near anything--irrespective of my personal feelings on the subject.

Dems have long (and seemingly treasured) history of forming a circular firing squad any time we get the opportunity, and this is NOT the time to do it. If we can't pull our socks up and get to work, this country is screwed--all of us included.

YMMV, but I'm just hanging in to see how this all plays out with Obama's administration. We delivered up a few more House and Senate seats, and we can only hope to improve that margin in the next election. If it doesn't work out and the country falls further apart, there is gonna be plenty of blame to lay out and EVERY Dem will be a potential target be they DLC or uber-liberal.



Laura

[Carolina]

98. thank you!

Never cared for HRC before the primaries, loathed her during them, am okay with her in the Senate.

[JoFerret]

99. But many learned to like and respect her during it

.

[11 Bravo]

100. Really? I hadn't noticed.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

101. Except many of those most concerned during the Primaries never criticized Senator Clinton before

And, just look at yesterday in GDP: if you actually think much of that garbage wasn't the result of anti-Clinton Primary Rehashing, then you're either naive or being disingenuous.

[JVS]

111. There was a strong heaping of scorn even before then as this thread from June of 2007 can attest

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3340161#3340210

[Bluenorthwest]

120. Hmmmmm

That is not exactly pre-primary. It was September of 2007 that Obama held his events featuring the open anti-gay sermonizing from Donnie McClurkin. The race was on full swing by then. David Geffen's meeting with Obama and quotes againt Clinton is something I first read about in Feb of 2007. Feb, March, April, May....June.

[Brazenly Liberal]

106. What you feel about her is irrelevant.

I don't mean that as a slap, btw. What I think of her is irrelevant, too. In the SoS position, what's important is her ability to forge relationships with other nations. And the fact of the matter is that, love them or hate them, the Clintons are wildly popular in most parts of the world.

The Bushies have trashed our relationships with most of the rest of the world and mending fences is critical. With so many other critical issues competing for his time and attention, I imagine it would be an immense relief to President Obama to know he has someone in the SoS spot who can hit the ground running and build on already established good will.

[Barack_America]

107. That's a good point.

But would it not also apply to Kerry and Richardson? In your opinion, is the Clinton brand that much more popular?

[Brazenly Liberal]

108. I think the Clinton brand IS that much more popular overseas, but

it would be interesting to poll the DU members outside the US asking how well known, well liked and respected the various candidates are in their countries. Who knows? I could be totally off base.

[Barack_America]

112. I actually went to a dinner party tonight....

And asked Portuguese and Hungarian acquaintances about this...and they agreed. They agreed that the Clintons are somewhat revered overseas.

So it is an interesting point. And I'll admit that with the polarity the Clintons induce at home, it's not one I had considered. I had assumed that our impressions of them here were shared overseas. It's interesting to learn that this is not necessarily the case. Very interesting indeed.

[Metric System]

116. During the primaries there was a fantasy poll in Canada and both Obama and Hillary came ahead of all

the other political party leaders on the left.

[Whisp]

109. 8 years of bombing and sanctioning Iraq kinda sewed the one up for me.

who ARE these people? ugh.

[ksimons]

114. even my republican mom, who hated hillary, is defending her now

I guess I've seen everything now

[Blarch]

118. I agree.

I didn't like Hillary BEFORE the primaries because she was too right wing for me. But the haters on DU will never accept that.