How about Holbrooke for Secretary of State

[Muttocracy]

His name came up on another thread and I remembered a time when Biden suggested him (Biden was deflecting a question about himself for VP or Sec. of State, and Holbrooke was in the audience, so it was hard to tell quite how serious Biden was in saying "Whoever has Holbrooke as secretary of State will be fine." - this was in February).

I don't know a lot about him except he's former U.N. Ambassador under Clinton, supported her for President, and Biden, Kerry, and Feingold have all referred to him kindly. At the SFRC hearing on Afghanistan in January, it was clear he knows Afghanistan/Pakistan issues very well, and he was willing to criticize Bush policies ("This emperor really has no clothes.").

I'm sure DUers know more, so please inform me.

(I think Kerry would be fantastic (tons of experience, foreign languages, knows the details in the hotspots, well-respected on foreign policy), but I'd also hate to lose his other strengths in the Senate.)

Thread from October, Holbrooke discussing Obama's strengths:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7627007

Article from August about Holbrooke as an Obama advisor:
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/08/28/162711.aspx

Thread from July about Obama's foreign policy advisors:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x6450

Article from 2004 about possible Sec. of State for Kerry
http://articles.latimes.com/2004/apr/11/news/adna-foreignside11

Wiki listing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Holbrooke

[redstate_democrat]

1. He's a neocon hawk, not much different than Paul Wolfowitz in my book.

Hell no. Enough with this crap. I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy about any of the folks being talked about.

If folks like Larry Summers, Hoolbrooke, Emmanuel, Gates, etc or going to be running the government, I'm sorry to say, but that change you were looking for ain't coming. You might get some incremental tidbits, but change on a fundamental level is not forthcoming.

[Muttocracy]

2. Is there some reading you can point me to?

[redstate_democrat]

12. Richard Holbrooke was one of the biggest Iraq regime change hawks.

http://www.usembassy.it/file2001_01/alia/a1011102.htm

But lately he has called for a change in Iraq strategy. He's a neocon to the fullest. He has a history. The Timor controversy under Carter for instance.

[Muttocracy]

13. thanks - will save that to read tomorrow - I noticed the Timor stuff in the Wiki link

but I never know how much to trust Wiki.

[sandnsea]

3. I can accept one or two

But if it keeps coming like this, I'll have to agree with you.

[Muttocracy]

5. oh, and by the way, I'm appalled at rumor of Summers, and don't get the Gates thing. nt

[JI7]

7. i think maybe they are keeping Gates so Wes Clark can take over in i think 2 years

i don't think he is allowed to serve now because you have to be out of the military for some years.

this way he can also be the token they keep on from the previous administration. Bush kept on Norman Mineta from the clinton administration.

[Muttocracy]

8. that makes some sense - I saw speculation on here that Clark could get in

though some "act of Congress" level measure or something as an exception.

Better than keeping Rice or Rumsfeld or Mukasey or something, but I'd rather he keep someone a little less powerful...

[FrenchieCat]

15. Actually, Holbrook is different from Wolfowitz......

Very different....unless Wolfowitz was nominated for the Nobel Peace prize seven times as well as served as UN Ambassador under Bill Clinton. Holbrook also served in the Carter Administration, and served as an advisor for John Kerry during the 2004 campaign.

I think that we run into a real risk if we start to typify everyone as being like everyone else in the way that you are doing. When I supported Wes Clark back in 2004, I ran into a lot of folks here at DU who were more than happy to call Wes Clark a war criminal, etc., etc...... Why? Because he wasn't "liberal" enough for them based on what they demanded.

Perhaps you are so extremely liberal until you believe that Obama is supposed to appoint other folks than who he is looking to possibly appoint. Perhaps you are looking for a Dennis Kucinich to become Secretary of State. If so, you might as well get your disappointment going right now, and not even wait till the man gets into office......because you will be very unhappy before the next week is over.

In terms of believing that there is no change coming because you don't agree with whom is being looked at now is a personal statement that reflects your feelings. I believe that change is coming, it just won't be achieved in the way that you have determined it needs to manifest itself in your eyes.

[Muttocracy]

17. Thanks for your thoughts

Wolfowitz is quite an extreme character in my book, and not every moderate or even hawkish point of view should be lumped with him.

:hi:

[FrenchieCat]

19. I just think it is dangerous when we kind paint with a broad brush....

Cause we don't come out smarter for it.

I personally don't care much for Holbrook....because I do find him quite status quo.

I would much prefer Samantha Power as Sec. of State. Now that would be a breath of fresh air....but then, that's if we lived in a liberal country, which we don't; not really.

[Muttocracy]

27. is she still linked to the Obama team any more? nt

[FrenchieCat]

29. She's there somewhere......but not on the team....sadly.

[redstate_democrat]

18. So you believe Holbrooke's positions are reasonable?

And his call for Iraqi regime change, ala PNAC back in 2001. We all know about his Nobels and yada yada yada. I'm talking about his views on America's role in the world, not just his resume.

And no, I am not "extremely liberal" person who thinks Kucinich should be appointed SOS. I just don't want warmongers running the state department.

[FrenchieCat]

20. I believe that Holbrooke is a gifted Diplomat who is too status quo

for me. But I don't equate him to Wolfovitz. Sorry.

Who do you suggest for the SOS job? Please give us your list.

[redstate_democrat]

21. "too status quo"

nevermind.

[FrenchieCat]

25. Who do you suggest?

It's nice to rant. It's constructive to offer alternatives.

[Muttocracy]

31. that's what I wonder too - I figure whoever it is will have pluses and minuses. nt

[Muttocracy]

28. at the SFRC hearing on Afghanistan, Feingold called him a friend he was glad was there

and I don't consider Feingold a warmonger so I'm a bit confused.

[Rydz777]

30. Right about Holbrooke. He was happiest when we were bombing

Belgrade. Anyone remember that? Yes, we didn't have enough to do, so we decided to get involved in a Balkans war. He is indeed a neocon who believes that the USA is the policeman of the world. Nobody has appointed us to that job, but so what? We'll just show up uninvited.

[Sebastian Doyle]

4. Holbrooke = neocon PNAC/PPI warmonger

Fuck that shit.

[Muttocracy]

6. I'm asking for help learning about this - can you point me in the right direction

rather than just swearing at me?

[JI7]

9. in 2001 he made comments about Iraq and Saddam and WMD

and other things the neocons were saying.

but he has a very long history and record and should be judged on all of that rather than just these few comments. did he push for the war in Iraq ? what were his views throughout and now. these things matter.

[Muttocracy]

10. that July thread and the Wiki entry in the OP are mixed reviews of him but I wonder

what perspective DUers have on it

for the July thread - stuff on Holbrooke is near the bottom of that.

[The Bakery Wagon]

11. here's a start

"Project For A New American Century Signatories:

There are interesting names on both lists - Some I wasn't aware of."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3664992

How reliable is "king george. biz? I don't know but I DO know that he thought the bombing of the TV station
in Kosovo was a hoot.

Is Holbrooke change we can believe in? I think not.

[FrenchieCat]

23. You are right that the link in that DU thread leads to a blog site....

but the list at the blog site is not sourced.

Wes Clark was the one in charge of the Bombing of the TV station in Kosovo.

Here's some information on that incident......
http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2007/03/facts_on_the_1999_rts_tv_stati.html

[vanderBeth]

14. This is the first time I have heard Holbrook for SoS.

Another out of left field choice I've now heard of is Susan Rice. She sounds like an interesting choice

[Muttocracy]

16. She's certainly knowledgeable from what I've heard in interviews

and she's close to Obama. I think she was undersec. of state for Africa under Clinton?

[Every Man A King]

22. Big time hawk, propagandist on the Russia/Georgia mess n/t

[FrenchieCat]

24. Got a link with that?

[Muttocracy]

26. what I read of him on Georgia sounded no different than Obama's position? nt