don't let the Big 3 fail - but -

[ulysses]

I suspect that we probably want to keep *some* domestic manufacturing capability alive, unless we're going to become a nation of shepherds.

That said, this is an opportunity to make Detroit modernize. Don't bail them out so that the idiots who've been running these companies can keep churning out H2s and Canyoneros. Tie any rescue package to much higher quality and efficiency standards, and put some teeth into enforcement.

[Double T]

1. I beginning to believe that the ONLY way to fix this huge mess...........

is to let the whole damn thing go under. Propping up the vary thing that put US in this mess makes no sense. See you in the stone soup line.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Hmmmm

If we let GM, Ford, and Chrysler fail what is going to happen to the 3,000,000 people who are employed directly or indirectly by these corporations and rely them on for a middle class existence and to the retired folks from these corporations who rely on them for pensions and much of their health care?

[Double T]

5. Unfortunately the 'innocent' will go down too, along with the rest of US.

Does it make sense to bailout ALL of these crooked corporations so they can continue business as usual? I believe the bailouts will only embolden these crazy bastards and make it even worse for the remnants of the hard working middle class and working poor. Bailouts and stimulus packages without fixing the core problems are only delaying the inevitable total economic and financial collapse.

[ulysses]

6. I might propose to you that "total economic and financial collapse"

is not inevitable, or even all that likely.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. If The Economy Is Worse In 2012 Than It Is Now We Might Be Saying Hello To President Palin

~

[Double T]

10. Believe what you want to believe. I see it much differently.

[droidamus2]

11. Punish all for the sins of a few?

I doubt these companies are corrupt from top to bottom. To say that the workers and retirees should suffer because the bosses at the top are idiots is a pretty severe 'solution'. I agree with those that say any help given the auto companies must be tied to those companies making big changes in the way they do things. I would even support extreme restrictions on pay for executives and maybe even removal of some who have shown resistance to building more fuel efficient vehicles. There are too many people involved in the industry that grew up in the era of muscle cars and big luxury vehicles that are still in love with them and don't buy into the need to go with smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. I say if these people won't voluntarily get with the plan that as part of the 'bailout' they be removed from their positions. Just giving money to the same people that screwed up the business in the first place won't accomplish much but filling their bank accounts with our tax money.

[ulysses]

3. that's a lot of hurt for a lot of folks whose fault this isn't.

I think we can do better.

[Double T]

8. Many have already been hurt; many, many more are to come.

WE can't do better without fixing the core problems first. The consumer is on deaths door and so is 70% of our US economy.

[lapfog_1]

4. Here is my list of strings

1. CAFE standards are going up, rapidly, adapt or die.

2. Those standards will include plug-in electric hybrids, and not just on a few select models. Fleet wide.

3. The jobs will stay here and will be union (and the union will have to play along too!)

4. We will get you universal health care so you can compete with foreign car makers on a level playing field.

5. The materials used to build the next gen cars will be much more "green" (recyclable or biodegradable)

6. There won't be the big three (well, medium two and a small one), you guys are going to be at least 5. That way, if in the future one of you is boneheaded again... too bad. Figure out which brands become companies and transfer assets to match.

7. Some of the money will be used to buy stock, for repurchase at cost over time by employees. (GM has a market cap of under $2B yesterday, so this isn't a huge amount of money).

8. All of this needs to be done by Christmas 2009 with a spring roll out of new, hybrid, green cars in 2010. If you can't design that fast, we will offer you thousands of college students to help out with the concepts. Great class projects.

9. NO MORE NIH! If some smart and small companies have good technology, use some of the money to buy them out, bring their engineers on board and start mass production of those designs.

[ulysses]

7. I like!

:thumbsup:

[POAS]

12. I like your ideas and would add one

that would prove very controversial and probably impossible to do.

In exchange for government intervention I'd insist on a cap of executive compensation at say 30 times the average pay for hourly and salaried (but not supervisory) workers.

If that average was $50,000 a year, for example, then the top pay for the board room would be $1,500,000. That still amounts to over $700 per hour but I'd bet that it would weed out much of the dead wood at the top of these corporations leaving room for fresh thinking to move in and bring much needed change from within.

Sound "socialistic"? Tough! These are tough times and they call for tough measures and belt tightening from top to bottom.

[lapfog_1]

13. When the employees / government own 60 percent of the stock

they can vote in whatever compensation plan for executives they want. If they can hire talented executives for $1.5M a year (and I believe they CAN) then that is the will of the shareholders.

Right now we take $1.2B off the top of the $25B or $50B and we buy 60 percent of GM. We hold it in trust for the workers and proxy it to the UAW. If the UAW doesn't do what we like, then we simply don't proxy it to them for the next shareholder meeting... and you can have bylaws that state a shareholder meeting every 3 months if you like.

Anyway, all workers get these shares over time (sort of like a Silicon Valley stock option plan from an era now gone by).

As they get their shares, they get to vote (or proxy) themselves. We get our $1.2B back.

I'd be happy to be offered a job in management (CIO or CTO or something). Fairly bright, hard working, good grasp of the technology and of finance. Not a sales type. Will work really hard for far less than $1.5M a year. Probably do at least as well as current management.

[POAS]

14. Your Hired!!!!

[lapfog_1]

15. Ok, when do I start?

and where is that damn signing bonus!!!

:evilgrin:

[POAS]

17. Jan. 21st 2009 and the check is in the mail

:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :toast:

[salguine]

16. One—and just one of many—conditions imposed on any bailout should be that

all Big 3 CEOs and all of upper management have to go.