The neocons at DU

[Onlooker]

I think of the neocons as highly dogmatic, unwilling to compromise, and would rather get revenge than get things done. When I look at some of the posts that criticize Hillary and Lieberman, I think that this is the neocon mentality. Regardless of whether we like Hillary or hate Lieberman, Obama has to think about what's in the best interests of the nation. He can't hold old grudges if he wants to appoint people with international stature and great political instincts, such as Hillary, or make peace with people whose votes he may need on crucial issues such as Supreme Court Justice appointments and national health care.

It almost seems that some people at DU are hoping that Obama acts like Bush and uses signing statements and deceit to force his plans on the nation. Obama plans to be a democratic president and to that end he will invest heavily in building allies. I think those who are freaked by Obama's outreach to Hillary and Lieberman are more interested in settling old scores than in implementing the kinds of changes Obama (and most of us) wants. Obama knows what he's doing, and the signs are that he's building a powerful political coalition, and turning his back on the neocon politics of personal destruction that quite a few DUers seem to embrace.

[peace13]

1. I just love your first sentence.

Where do you hope to get with that? Neocon? If we could clean up anything around here I would vote that the words neocon, freeper, and other derogatory titles would not be used against DU'ers. Emulate Obama yourself and refuse to throw trash at fellow Americans.

[Onlooker]

10. Thank you for standing up to analogies

I think your point is silly. People use analogies all the time to make a point.

[Leopolds Ghost]

24. What about the neocons at DU who want Dean and all his people fired?

They've kept nice and quiet for 4 years as promises have been made to them behind the scenes.

"This is just campaign rhetoric to shore up the base" Austin Ghoulsbee said.

[Starry Messenger]

2. .

[Autumn]

3. More than a touch of

truth there.:thumbsup:

[H2O Man]

4. Silly.

Lieberman is a neoconservative.

[annabanana]

5. "neocon mentality"?

The neo-cons are a specific group of think-tank poseurs who want America to use it's military everywhere it can to promote an imperialistic control over the course of world events. They believe that lying to the populace is an acceptable tactic to achieve their goals. To redefine the name of this crowd, who they are and what they want to do, is dangerous.

Specifically to Joe Lieberman. Revenge is not the issue.

The new administration's ability to move in a new Foreign Policy direction will be compromised by a hawk at the head of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs... to say nothing of the investigations into rampant lawbreaking regarding the politicization of the Justice Department that are necessary to make Government accountable to the American people.

[Douglas Carpenter]

15. exactly!! Words have meaning. Calling opponents of Lieberman neocons

would be like calling supporters of Bill O'Reilly communist.

Neoconservatism refers to a particular foreign policy philosophy.

Joe Lieberman is a foreign policy neoconservative, not simply a hawk - they all are hawks, but a foreign policy neoconservative. Having in a sensitive position a devotee of this dangerous and extremist ideology which has wrought so much shame on America and brought so devastation to the world constitutes a threat to the peace of the world and the security of the United States of America.

[midnight]

17. This is real good annabanana

The new administration's ability to move in a new Foreign Policy direction will be compromised by a hawk at the head of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs... to say nothing of the investigations into rampant lawbreaking regarding the politicization of the Justice Department that are necessary to make Government accountable to the American people.

[LisaLynne]

19. Exactly.

Neocon is a specific term for a specific ideologue. Trying to make it mean something else makes it meaningless.

[Whisp]

38. Iraq suffered greatly for 8 years of Clinton.

sounds neoconish to me. or whatever word you want to give it.

[PretzelWarrior]

6. nice strawman argument.

you defend against an argument that I don't believe is being made--that Hillary should have a score settled on her. She has done an admirable job of campaigning for Obama around the country after he defeated her in the primary. You also go on to put words into our mouths by indicating we want Obama to be a Dem version of Bush by secretly using trickery to put in an agenda. Uhh> WHAT??? I never read any posts like that.

People are entitled to their opinions about Hillary. My wife doesn't want her as S.O.S. I don't have a big stake in it other than I hate to see senators give up seats. So my wish was for Holbrooke or Wesley Clark or others who've dealt with diplomatic issues before. If Obama chose Hillary it would be okay by me. It's not like they won't find a capable Democrat in NY to replace her.

But where you and me part ways is on Lieberman. I will never forgive him for his dishonor, and I know many other Dems won't either. It's not like people are saying lock him up or kill him. They are saying kick him out of his chairmanships. Yes, some are saying kick him out of the caucus, but that is just stupid. He's either going to vote with the Dems or not. No need to be gratuitous and boot him. However, if he chose to run off to the Republicans in a snit, he should have a fun time trying to defend that to his constituents.

Here's another big FUCK YOU from me to Joe Lieberman.

[lapfog_1]

7. neocons have a specific set of ideologue agenda items

having to do with world domination through military power.

See PNAC web site for details.

As for compromise... all Democrats have done for the last 8 years is compromise on this or that. When have the repukes EVER compromised? Even after we won the House and Senate two years ago? We still have to kiss their ass and enact their agenda, even if they throw us a bone now and then.

We need to be just as unyielding for at least 4 years, just to restore some balance to public policy. We have become so far right that what passes for "middle" right now was "extreme right" only a couple of decades ago. Compared to Bush, Reagan was a right center leader. Compared to the nightmare of Palin, Bush seems almost reasonable.

But I remember when Ronald Reagan first ran for office. People thought he was absolute nuts. Many good liberals made promises of fleeing the country, etc, etc.

So, pardon me if I want to swing the pendulum hard back to the left for at least a little while.

[ProSense]

8. "more interested in settling old scores" What BS!

Tell that to these Senators

Tell it to Obama

The BS that people can't be genuinely angry at Lieberman or critical of Hillary is pure denial. Change doesn't mean people should shut up and stop being critical.

[davidpdx]

9. I think your painting people using a broad brush

when you know the two are not necessarily connected. I would really like to see Lieberman stripped of his HLS Chairmanship and booted out of the D caucus. As to Clinton, I think personally I'd rather see her stay in the US Senate. If nominated, she and her husband will have some things to answer about financially, which I'm not sure they want to.

[Fabio]

11. Your misuse of the term neocon makes this post silly

but your use of the term neocon in defense of joe lieberman's dem foes is downright laughable.

[Me.]

12. Balder

Dash

[Warren Stupidity]

13. Wow. What a mountain of bullshit.

When I think of republican trolls, I think of people who just invent completely new meanings for familiar words, words that already have well defined meanings that everyone understands, and then use those brand new dissonant meanings to label people they don't like with jarringly wrong labels.

Thanks for playing 'lets have a fight'.

[Martin Eden]

14. Words have meaning. The term "neocon" ...

... refers to a specific political philosophy and set of individuals who advocate global US military dominance and the use of that force to transform regimes they view as hostile, especially in the Middle East. They want a world modeled on our own political/economic system. They believe the United States has the right and obligation to wage war for this purpose, and are foolish enough to think this strategy will work.

Neoconservatism got us into Iraq. It has destroyed a million lives and is costing us trillions of dollars while eroding the the TRUE power we have (used to have) -- the power to persuade, inspire, and lead by example.

I cannot overstate the importance of eliminating the influence of neoconservatism in this country.

What we don't need is the term "neocon" taking on different meanings and applications. This will only confuse the issues associated with real neoconservatism, which needs to be well-defined and thoroughly repudiated.

[yellowwood]

16. You Don't Understand the Term "Neocon."

If there are any neocons at DU, they are just spying on the site. "Neocon" has a specific meaning. Look it up. That's not to say that there are no neocons in the Democratic Party. They are insidious and will follow the power. People who oppose Lieberman are "anti-neocon." Neocons have a specific agenda and ideology, and they certainly like military action more than most Democrats. It is very important that people understand who neocons are and what they stand for.

[WindRiverMan]

18. It's not REVENGE I want, it's a RECKONING!

Yes, a reckoning. I want a settlement of all debts. I want those who lied us into war held accountable. I want those who put political ideology above the best interests of this nation held accountable. I want a man who put his personnel friendship above the interests of this country and the majority of its citizens held accountable. This is not about getting even, this about getting justice.

[happychatter]

34. you're no daisy

I'm your huckleberry

[NashVegas]

20. Hi Mike

[annabanana]

26. naw. . mike just listens & reports. . n/t

[MattBaggins]

21. Wrong wrong wrong

You are wrong and couldn't be any wronger. You are so wrong it's wrong.

Perhaps you meant to call us freepers and not neocons?

I have nothing against Hillary and believe the best posistion for her would be as Senate Majority Leader but if Obama thinks she is the best choice for SoS, then so be it.

Now if you don't mind, please stop talking down your nose to us about Lieberman. See what you fail understand is that Freepers will attack anyone that strays from a set party line. I don't want Lieberman thrown out for a few votes I dislike. It is about the big embrace we gave him 8 years ago by warmly accepting him as our VP candidate. While we had our arms around him he sunk some nice long knives in our back. I want him tossed not for straying from party ideals; but for his character, or specifically, his lack there of. Screw Lieberman and his apologists.

[mkultra]

22. your right about hillary but wrong about lieberman

Lieberman has acted in defiance of the principles of the democratic party. He is now a war monger and needs to be extracted like a rotten tooth.

Hillary is a different story. despite whatever personal dislike i have for her, i know that her policies are rock solid and that goes a long way.

[mmonk]

23. Interesting.

So I guess I'm a neocon then since I've criticized Lieberman here and his usefulness. So the people here MOST critical of the neoconservative movement and its allies and enablers are NOT against neoconservatism but are actually neocons. Orwell lives here.

[Every Man A King]

25. Your attempt to equate Hillary and Lieberman

is bizarre and silly.

[RandomKoolzip]

27. I'm appointing you to head the Department of Makin' Stuff Up.

People who criticize Hillary Clinton are Neocons?! Do you even KNOW what or who neoconservatives ARE?

C'mon, DU, we can do much better than this.

[peace13]

29. Too funny.

Thank you for this.! Peace, kim

[IndianaGreen]

28. Lieberman is a neocon, and the PPI's neoliberals are not much better

Let's not forget about the homophobes we have in DU, droves of them!

Obama can pick whoever he wants for his cabinet. It is his policies that will become the issue, particularly if he deviates from his campaign promises of bringing change.

[Sebastian Doyle]

30. So now if you oppose the neocon agenda, and those who voted to enable it

you're a neocon? :shrug:

Which fucking parallel universe did I just cross into?

[Firespirit]

31. I disown the "con" part of it, for what it stands for, but I fully own the general MINDSET.

Rather interesting that you should use the term "neocon," as that is precisely what I realized about myself about a year ago, that I think exactly as they do. Dunno if you're talking to me specifically, but I don't believe in making amends and I do believe in grudges and revenge, so it applies. This party is too nice, and if the other guys ever get out of the Pleistocene, I'm heading over there. Thanks for the shout-out, though. :hi:

[bridgit]

32. What!? "neocons at DU"?! Son of a BITCH!! To the choppa!! I said...

:scared:

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Sebastian Doyle]

35. I just KNEW that damn Grovelbot was a neocon!!

:mad:

[superduperfarleft]

36. This should help:

Step 1: Think up super-clever analogy
Step 2: Think real hard about whether super-clever analogy is actually that clever before deciding to post it.
Step 3: ????
Step 4: PROFIT!

[anonymous171]

37. Neoconservativism is an actual political philosophy (albeit an evil one.)

[Gold Metal Flake]

39. You...