Gays have earned a cabinet spot

[dsc]

Gays were the third most loyal constituence for Obama, after blacks and Jews. Gays gave mega bucks to Obama and mega volunteer hours as well. Cabinets aren't about getting the most qualified people in the universe. They are about rewarding your supporters, running the government, and being team players. There are millions of people, and thousands of qualified ones, angling to get into the cabinent. Surely there are one or two qualified, team playing, loyal Obama supporters who just happen to be openly gay. Some suggestions. Barney Frank would be very qualified for Treasury. Roberta Attenburg would be qualifed for HUD. David Cicilline has the same qualification for HUD that Ciscernos had when Clinton named him (successful big city mayor). These are three, just off the top of my head. Tammy Baldwin surely could manage either labor or commerece. Speaking of commerece, Bruce Bastian, who founded wordperfect would be great. Finally, for a North Carolina connection, Mitchell Gold for Sec of Commerece, successful furniture manufacturer as well as a great employer so he would work for labor too.

[Hepburn]

1. I have to disagree that ANYONE earned a Cabinet Post based on...

...gender, age, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference ~~ or any other identifying factor which could set him/her apart from others.

IMO, these posts should be awarded solely on skill, experience, training and past performance. Gawd knows that under no circumstances do I EVER wish to have another "Heck of a Job, Brownie" moment in our history. I could not care less about what "identifying" characteristics someone has ~~ the issue is: Is he or she the BEST person for the job.

JMHO

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. I would LOVE Barney Frank to be given a post

But who would take over for him that could get voted back in another term? (Barney Frank is very popular)

[msongs]

10. barney for senator from MA if kerry takes an administration job nt

[donheld]

55. Or

Barney for senator if something happens to Senator Kennedy.

[IndianaGreen]

64. Barney FRank betrayed LGBT community when he dropped transgender from ENDA

I would rather place my trust on a hetero socialist like Bernie Sanders than a gay person that would splinter the LGBT community.

[crimsonblue]

75. Barney betrayed the entire country

with his ridiculous cheering of a deeply flawed bailout bill.

[thunder rising]

3. nonsense.

[xultar]

4. Agreed. But also there has got to be some way the Obama Administration can stop prop-8 like

bullshit in the future.

[FatherTime1408]

5. I hope you're wrong. It should be about finding the most qualified person...

...not rewarding supporters and campaign donors. I don't want my president bought and paid for by this or that group. I want him to surround himself with the brightest minds in the country, regardless of sexual orientation, color, sex, etc.

[dsc]

12. then Kissenger for SOS he was SOS for longer than anyone currently alive

and he masterminded the opening of China. Can't get more qualified than that. Oh wait, I bet you don't like that too much do you.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

18. Kissinger? Huh? Aside from the fact that the man doesn't look too healthy....

He is, and always was, an asshole.

[Chan790]

87. Isn't he also wanted for questioning internationally for war crimes?

for his part in genocides in Cambodia and SE Asia during the Vietnam era? I know the French want to ask him some questions. It's widely thought that if the US signed onto the ICC that Kissinger would be indicted. Christopher Hitchens wrote a book several years ago about the allegations against Henry Kissinger.

If he can't leave the US without being arrested, that'd make it hard to be SoS.

[Tallison]

98. Hell of a qualification there

I don't know what the poster's point is in citing him. Experience exists somewhere between two opposites: Good and bad. I can't imagine anyone with worse experience than Kissinger.

[Renew Deal]

50. I and many others can argue that Kissinger isn't the most qualified.

Sorry, but that's a logical fallacy.

[Tallison]

99. Big difference between qualification and experience

Bad experience (Kissinger's) is even more disqualifying than no experience.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

54. Kissinger

should be in prison for war crimes http://www.zpub.com/un/wanted-hkiss.html

I think your whole premise is pretty invalid.

[Thothmes]

90. Along with

Richard Nixon, Lyndon Johnson and Robert MacNamara.

[Sebastian Doyle]

76. Kissinger's gay?

I had no idea.

[KittyWampus]

6. So how does Obama know the nominee is "gay"? Is there a check off box on the application?

If there was, wouldn't that be unacceptable?

[FatherTime1408]

7. Exactly. We're not supposed to be discriminating based on this stuff, right?

[dsc]

9. the same way he knows that Hillary is straight

or Richardson, or even Jerry Brown, because when you vet someone you ask about their relationships, and by golly we gay folk have those.

[Tallison]

100. Chances are, someone on his cabinet will be gay

Statistically, that is. We just won't necessarily know about it. Nor will he/she have been appointed for that reason.

[cali]

8. oh, for fuck's sake. NO ONE AND NO GROUP IS OWED A CABINET POSITION

Howard Dean isn't owed HHS.
John Kerry isn't owed SoS.
Jews who voted 78% for Obama aren't owed a Cabinet position.
Blacks who voted 91% for Obama aren't owed a Cabint position.

I find your thinking on this deplorable. And sorry, I damn well want Cabinet positions to be about the best people. Not saying that isn't subjective and not saying that gender, race, etc shouldn't be factored in.

[dsc]

11. particular people, no

but groups, yes. Incidently I think organized labor is owed a cabinet position as well so it isn't just this. But the fact is the most qualified person to be Secretary of State would likely be either Albright or Kissenger (both were SOS for longer than Powell or Rice) but no one would suggest putting Kissenger in simply because on paper he is more qualified than say Richardson. Frank, by any standard, is very qualifed for Treasury. Attenburg was Deputy Secretary of HUD and thus is qualifed to be Secretary.

[cali]

13. no sorry. that's just wrong.

so is your thinking about Albright or Kissinger. Having been in a position doesn't de facto mean that one is the most qualified.

Just because a demographic went strongly for Obama, does NOT mean they should get a "pay off" in the form of a cabinet position. And what cabinet position would you consider "prestigious" enough? Would you whine about transportation, for example?

Look, people presumably voted for Obama, not for pay off, but because they thought he'd be the best president, and exercise his best judgment. And that's where we now are.

[dsc]

16. No unless someone was put there who had no specific knowledge of transportation

I would find say putting Frank there insulting. But if some gay man runs an airline or some lesbian is way up in Amtrac and gets Transportation that would be fine with me.

[FatherTime1408]

17. Your picks aren't the problem, the problem I have is...

"Gays gave mega bucks to Obama and mega volunteer hours as well. Cabinets aren't about getting the most qualified people in the universe. They are about rewarding your supporters, running the government, and being team players."

That part is just wrong.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

19. I agree with that. Bush did ONLY that, which is why he was able to put unqualified evil people

in posts. They ruined our country.

[customerserviceguy]

23. Yep

that's how we got "heckuva job, Brownie" in charge of dealing with Katrina, political payoffs.

[racaulk]

34. Exactly.

And gays weren't the only group that "gave mega bucks" and "volunteered mega hours."

[qwlauren35]

89. If that's what Cabinets are about - then it's something else that needs to CHANGE.

Oh yes, I want team players. I want a well-run government.

But the rewarding your supporters part sems VERY CONTRARY TO WHAT OBAMA STANDS FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you want Equal Opportunity? Or Affirmative Action?

I say that every gay, Jewish, Black, White, Asian, disabled, minority candidate that is QUALIFIED should be on the long list, and hopefully eventually the short list.

I am already QUITE pissed about Kerry and Clinton being on the list AT ALL. My faith in Obama will be shot to hell within 3 months if the only people he surrounds himself with are Washington insiders and political appeasements.

That's not the kind of president that most of us voted for.

[Tallison]

101. By OP's logic, the rest of us should consider it just when Republican

presidents exclusively stock their cabinets with white, straight, Christians because they 'earned' it. The OP's logic epitomizes cronyism, which cripples democracy, whichever the presiding party.

[Joe the Revelator]

14. No, the person most qualified for the post has "earned" the cabinet spot.

[dkf]

15. No identity politics please.

Our country is so screwed I want nothing but the smartest, most organized, most knowledgeable, most efficent and most inspirational people we can get.

If they happen to be gay so be it. If they like unions so be it. If they are female so be it.

After surviving a President who hired people based on loyalty, I am sick and tired of not having the absolute best person for the job.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

21. True. Our country is now a patient in a hospital. Repukes ruined our country.

Our country now needs the best, most qualified expert, regardless of what they are, and I think Obama is trying to pick from among the choicest apples to fix this mess Repukes put us all in.

[dkf]

27. Yes. Bush has screwed us so bad.

He really was pure ideology run amok. We can't have that ever again.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

30. I agree with you. We must never allow that again nt

[stray cat]

20. Not another post on Bush cronyism carried over to Obama's administration

Its times for competence versus rewards. Need I say Harriot Miers for the Supreme Court because she was female and Bush owed her. Besides I want a cabinet position too since I voted for him.

[dsc]

22. If you have the qualifications of the people mentioned in the post

then go ahead. Otherwise not so much.

[stray cat]

24. But the key quailfication seems to be openly gay (or black, female or a loyal supporter)

at least based on putting some characteristic before most competent

[dsc]

25. and I don't apologize for that

I think it was right for Clinton to decide to name a famale AG and Reno was a good one. I think it was right for Bush the elder to name Powell over more qualified opposition to Chair of Joint Chiefs and he was mostly a good one. That is how affimitave action should work.

[Christian30]

26. It would be great to have a gay person...

put into the Cabinet, but it shouldn't be the sole qualification. That said, there are plenty of qualified gay people that could serve, so lets just see what happens.

[Barack_America]

28. Can't agree with you here.

I don't think that government appointments are a place to play politics.

I do strongly believe that sexual preference should in no way preclude a person from getting an appointment, however. That too is playing politics.

[kestrel91316]

29. So, you support nepotism rather than a meritocracy? SORRY.

Pick the best person for the job. If they are gay, or a minority, or disabled, and that gains the approval of some group, then that's icing on the cake. But choosing people just to curry favor with a particular group and reward one's buddies is what brought this country nearly to ruin over the past 8 years.

[racaulk]

31. I'm gay, and I totally disagree with you.

There are people that are qualified for cabinet posts that are gay, to be sure, but there are also many people that are qualified that are not gay. I think that any cabinet post needs to go to the person that is most qualified for that job and has the best interests of our country at heart, regardless of their sexual orientation (or any other demographic).

You wouldn't want Obama to discriminate against gay people in his cabinet picks, so why should he discriminate in favor of them?

I would love to see one or more gay members of Obama's cabinet, don't get me wrong, and I'm sure that we will see that once he starts naming appointments. But the people you listed above have earned the right for consideration for those posts because of their prior work and qualifications, not because they just happen to be gay.

[Uzybone]

32. Enough of identity politics pls

geez.

I'm sure Obama will pick the best people for the job.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[racaulk]

36. GrovelBot, I think you would be better suited in a fundraising position with the DNC.

You are relentless!!! :hi:

[hulklogan]

35. Why do all the straights here think there are no qualified gay people for any cabinet post?

If our President-Elect really wants to have a cabinet that reflects America, he will appoint a qualified LGBT American.

Or are the straight people so committed to DADT that they couldn't live with a lesbian at Veterans Affiars? Are they so frightened that we'll teach their kindergarteners about gay marriage that they couldn't stomach a gay man at Education?

The only barrier to having an LGBT American in Obama's cabinet is the ignorance of straight people.

[Occam Bandage]

38. It's not a matter of "qualified," it's a matter of "the absolute most qualified person in America."

If a homosexual person happens to be the absolute most qualified Secretary of Education, then yes, Obama should appoint him or her. If he or she is qualified but not the most qualified person, then Obama should not. Tokenism and cronyism are not hallmarks of good governance.

[cali]

40. why do YOU put words in the mouths of others?

what a bullshit lie. I'm straight. I've posted on this thead in disagreement with the OP, because as I made clear, I do not believe Obama owes any group or individual an appointment. Fucking period. And YOU are calling me homophobic? Fuck that.

I hope to see a diverse cabinet and administration. But the OP is patently wrong about the "owing" crap. That's just bushian bullshit.

[Danger Mouse]

47. This post is inflammatory bullshit at its worst. Are you TRYING to cause division?

[yardwork]

53. I don't see anyone saying that. I'm a lesbian and I strongly disagree with the OP.

[racaulk]

56. WTH?

My only problem with the OP is his insistence that the GLBT community is "owed" one or more positions in Obama's cabinet due to their work to support his bid for the Presidency. I don't see anywhere in this thread where straight people are saying that gay people aren't qualified for cabinet posts, just that one's sexual orientation shouldn't even be a qualifier at all.

And I say this as a gay man.

[grantcart]

61. The OP is offensive to anyone chosen to be in the cabinet

If the cabinet includes an openly gay person the OP suggests that it was because of his/her sexual orientation.


In picking the most qualified you would expect to have atleast one gay American or possibly several.


Of course we have had gays in the cabinet before just no one out of the closet.

[qwlauren35]

88. No fears here.

I don't think being openly gay should DISQUALIFY any candidate.

Now, you want to strike fear, put someone openly gay on the Supreme Court.

I'd rather see the Supreme Court look like America than the Obama Cabinet. I really want to see people I've never heard of.

Oh... and on the subject of "openly gay"... as long as the person isn't a "gay activist", I'll be okay with "Openly Gay". But no poster children, please. I would want that person to be as low key about their orientation as possible. Kinda like Condaleeza Rice. It's okay for the fact that the person is gay is obvious to everyone, but it should be one of those things that people stop noticing pretty quickly.

And if it happens, I really hope that gay folks will quickly stop the "OhMyGosh - It'soneofUS!!!" singing. Just as I hope that we African-Americans will get over Obama's race ASAP.

We need to stop saying "Obama, the first African-American president", and hopefully, if we did have someone gay in the Cabinet, it wouldn't be Smith, the gay Secretary of xxx.

[Occam Bandage]

37. As a GLBT-American, I am firmly opposed to tokenism. nt

[QC]

39. It's funny to see "progressives" suddenly fretting over "unqualified minorities"

getting into positions due to "identity politics." LOL!

[Occam Bandage]

43. Yes, all progressives were wholeheartedly in support of tokenism two months ago.

Assuming you get your definition of "a liberal" from early-'90s episodes of Rush Limbaugh, that is.

[QC]

59. Who said anything about tokenism?

I would just like to see GLBT candidates for positions treated like anyone else--something that we know damn well has not been the case in the past.

(If you are old enough to remember the names Jim Hormel and Roberta Achtenberg you will know exactly what I mean.)

[Occam Bandage]

62. I don't think anyone is opposed to that, but that isn't what the OP is about. nt

[cali]

48. that;'s not what people are objecting too. They're objecting to the

concept that any group or individual is fucking owed an appointment. Funny to see progressives defending such a bushian wingnut concept.

[Renew Deal]

51. Didn't we get over this shit

Or are there Dems that believe that "Brownie" did a good job?

[QC]

60. You honestly think that there are no GLBT possibilities for cabinet slots

who are more qualified than Brownie???

[Renew Deal]

66. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Do I think there are GLBT individuals that may be the absolutely most qualified for a cabinet post? There probably are. But GLBT should have nothing to do with it either way. The question should be... Is this the best qualified person to help Obama pursue his goals (and for the nation)?

[cali]

49. that;'s not what people are objecting too. They're objecting to the

concept that any group or individual is fucking owed an appointment. Funny to see progressives defending such a bushian wingnut concept.

[cliffordu]

41. Barney Frank: Secretary of Teh Gay

:rofl:

It goes without saying that there WILL be a gay person on Obama's team, either out, or not.


It's a population/math thingy.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Peacetrain]

44. You want the best people, period..

No matter their culture, gender, race, sexual orientation. Bill Clinton got himself into some deep stuff trying for this perfect balance.. right now we just need the best.. what if the best was an entire gay cabinet?? or and entire cabinet of Buddhists.. or none of the above..

[Colobo]

45. Have confidence in Obama.

[Renew Deal]

46. Cabinets aren't about getting the most qualified people...They are about rewarding your supporters?

You have got to be kidding. After the last 8 years, you believe that "Brownie" did a good job, that Wolfowitz is a genius, and that Cheney was a terrific VP? Please tell me you're joking.

[yardwork]

52. Aaaaah! I would vastly prefer to have equal human rights than a symbolic appointment.

I DON'T CARE who Obama chooses for his cabinet. Don't care at all - as long as they aren't right-wingers, that is.

Bush had plenty of African American and female appointments and we saw where that got us. Individuals' ethnicity and sex are not good predictors of their political positions or qualifications. Out of group of 100 gay candidates, 99 of them could be stupendously qualified and the 100th a complete dolt or even a Log Cabin Republican.

Stop. Focus on human rights equality and stop with the "X group earned this" and "X group earned that."

I love ya, dsc, but I disagree with you on this one.

[alwysdrunk]

57. What does being gay bring to any of the positions you list?

How is a gay Treasury Secretary better than a straight one? Barney Frank may be the best candidate as Barney Frank, but how does his being gay have anything to do with the work required of a Treasury head?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

58. This shouldn't be a spoils system.

I don't care if someone gave Barack 30 million dollars; such a person does not warrant a cabinet position unless he/she is the single most qualified person for the post.

[randr]

63. NO one earns a cabinet spot

Individuals are qualified for positions.

[trudyco]

65. but, but, but ... I thought Rove had a cabinet position?

[Egnever]

67. you would never have known reading this place

it was all jerkin for mclurkin here and obama was a huge homophobe.

[dsc]

69. We voted 70 to 27 for Obama

despite the fact that McClurkin ispired Obama supporters voted 70 to 30 to take away our rights. So yeah, McClurkin pisses me off. But a group that votes 70 to 30 for you deserves a cabinet spot.

[cali]

70. more bullshit coming from you. Quelle surprise.

and more racially divisive, ugly crap. Good thing most DUers don't buy it.

[Uzybone]

73. very racist stuff

anyone still spouting the "blacks took away gay rights" meme should be ashamed of themselves.

[dsc]

83. I didn't say that and you are a liar for saying I did

I did say, and the facts show me right, that a majority of blacks did vote to take them away.

[Uzybone]

85. You just said it again.

dsc: "despite the fact that McClurkin ispired Obama supporters voted 70 to 30 to take away our rights."

dsc: "a majority of blacks did vote to take them away."

You are a divisive race baiter. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[dsc]

86. You said "blacks took away our rights"

and that is not what I said you liar. But yes, a majority of blacks in California voted to take away our rights. The chances of the exit poll being that wrong are about the same as my winning the California lottery if I buy one ticket.

[dsc]

74. I didn't bring it up he did

and once he did, hell yeah I am going to defend myself. What most of us said about McClurkin and what palling around with him would lead to came to pass in California. It is exhibit A in why bigots like him had no business whatsoever at Obama's concerts. But regardless, imagine the following. Hillary won with 91% of the black vote and named no blacks to her cabinet. Wouldn't happen. Literally unimaginable. Yet I think it is at best 50/50 we will see even one gay cabinet member despite us voting for him 70 to 27.

[cali]

78. don't forget that Obama palled around with terrorists, too.

that's about as true as saying he palled around with McClurkin.

Your sliming and identity politics are just plain disgusting. And look around at your pathetic thread and you'll see, I'm hardly the only person who finds it disgusting.

[dsc]

84. fine us racist gays who voted for the man are disgusting

and the homophobic bigot who helped convince a majority of black Californians to vote against our rights is a great man. Whatever.

[Uzybone]

71. I wonder how rastafarians voted?

Or Muslims, or Asian Americans, or 1st generation immigrants or the under 25 year olds. Im pretty sure all theose groups were close to the gay vote for Obama. Do they all deserve a cabinet spot?

Cabinet spots are actual leadership roles, not tokens to be given away to friends and supporters.

[Sebastian Doyle]

79. They voted "legalize it, mon!"

[racaulk]

81. Better yet, how did the pastafarians vote?

;)

[cwydro]

68. I disagree with this thinking.

Cabinet spots should not be "rewards".

[cali]

72. So, genius, how many cabinet spots does Obama owe Jews?

They voted for Obama in greater numbers than the GLBT community? How many does he owe African-Americans? Hey, how many does he owe single women? How many to latinos?

[Sebastian Doyle]

77. Well, the Latinos will get a Secretary of State, hopefully

Though that shouldn't be the reason he gets the job. And the Jews already got Chief of Staff, to use your examples. And the African Americans got Valerie Jarrett and Obama himself. And the Irish Catholics got Biden.

If we were going to break everything down by racial/ethnic/religious demographics, that is.

I'm just hoping some LIBERALS will be well placed in the cabinet. I don't care if they're gay liberals, or straight liberals, or transgendered liberals, or black liberals, or Samoan liberals, or Martian liberals, as long as they're LIBERALS. :)

[dsc]

82. I will give $100 to the charity of your choice if any of the groups

you named are not in his cabinet and a gay person is, if in return, you will donate $100 to mine if he leave out gays. I am dead certain I wouldn't have to pay off that bet.

[Tallison]

104. How will you know there's not already a gay among his choices

who is just not out?

[Tallison]

103. Don't forget single Wiccan mothers!

I'm guessing went 85%+ for the O?

[Veruca Salt]

80. Uh, no.

I want the best, brightest and 'top in their fields' in these positions otherwise you end up with sub par work. If it happens to be a gay man or woman well then, there you go. But it is not a requirement to fill a position.

For full disclosure I am a lesbian who thinks this is a dumbass idea.

Scratch that, I changed my mind. I want PIE in the cabinet positions! Apple Pie for SoD, Pecan Pie for SoS, Key Lime Pie for SoI, Sweet Potato Pie for SoT, Chocolate Pie for SoH&Hs, Rubarb Pie for SoA... Mmmm, it will be such a delicious cabinet.

[boppers]

91. Quid Pro Quo is wrong.

We've suffered 8 years of that kind of corruption, "rewarding the base", 8 years of getting people in positions of authority not because of, or in spite of, their qualifications.

No thank you, not anymore.

[Buzz Clik]

92. It is my deepest hope that every cabinet position is filled based on qualifications, not cronyism.

If that means that a gay person lands on the cabinet, so be it.

[scheming daemons]

94. Exactly

[AZBlue]

93. NO ONE EARNED A CABINET POST BASED UPON SEXUAL PREFERENCE.

That's the most absurd thing I've EVER heard.

No one's owed a damn things based upon religion, gender, race, sexual preference or anything else. As a matter of fact, no one's owed a damn thing, period.

[JI7]

95. John Kerry did better among gay and lesbian voters than Obama

that was one area Obama underformed from 2004.

the McClurkin thing might have been part of it. or Kerry was just seen as more supportive of the issues.

whatever the case, i think THIS is a bigger reason Obama should have an openly gay person in his administration.

[JI7]

96. how about a black lesbian jewish person

[terrya]

97. I posted about this a few weeks ago and I was all but laughed at.

Good luck with trying to get this point across. I was told that "identity politics" has no place in the Cabinet selection process.

[cali]

102. I would think that bush's practice of rewarding loyalists with cabinet

positions and other high level positions. Think of his paying off Xian fundamentalists.

If Obama has a choice between two equally qualified candidates, and one of them is gay or lesbian, I think he should choose the one who is gay or lesbian, but that's different than saying he should reward any given group or individual with a high level position.

[terrya]

105. I'm sorry. n/t