Repugs claimed only 10% of Ala. voted blue. Here is why that is a baldfaced lie.

[dixiegrrrrl]

My little Strong Repug. town of "Mayberry" just went a whole lot less red.

Couple of hints found in our local Repub. weekly paper.

Thurs. 2 days after the election, all you could see on the front page
were big headlines of "local" races and pics of candidates,
and one tiny print sentence under all that,
almost invisible "Obama cruises to a win"
Nothing else..no pic.

This Thursday a huge half page,
above- the- fold pic of Obama,
with headline "Local leaders weigh in on the Obama Victory".
Smaller of pics of 8 "local" leaders, half white, half black
above that headline, the big Obama pic below that.

Turning to the letters to the editor reveals why.
( Usually there are only a couple of little content letters).

A letter blasting the paper for not even mentioning the Obama win last week is
signed by 2 Sargent Majors from Alabama, with 25 years in the military.

2 other letters in same tone, one from a Fla. reader.
Really really angry tone to all letters, calling editor out on his racism.
( editor also not bright, in my experience in talking with him)
Paper is owned by one man, big time Republican.

Our city (pop 6,700) and county (pop. 22K) is about 48% black.

Obama got 5,023 votes ( city/county combined) to McCain's 6, 173.

This really is huge. I am saving this newspaper.

Nuff said.

[EFerrari]

1. Do you guys vote on touchscreens? n/t

[Wilms]

3. "Paper Ballot" optically Scanned and Tallied by a Computer.

http://www.verifiedvoting.org/verifier/map.php?&ec=allall&year=2008&state=Alabama

About as vulnerable as a DRE TouchScreen.

Verified Voting refers to both Optically Scanned AND Hand Counted Jurisdiction as "Paper Ballot"...as if there isn't a difference. I find that very misleading.

[EFerrari]

5. Thanks, Wilms. Yeah, that description is completely misleading. n/t

[Realityhack]

19. Not inherently.

DRE Touch Screen votes are impossible to audit. The data doesn't exist.
With optical scan it does. You can hand count, batch check, etc.

Obviously this needs to actually be DONE more. But I think it is wrong to try to equate the two in terms of being vulnerable.

[Wilms]

20. DRE Touch Screen votes are impossible to audit IF there is no VVPAT.

Otherwise, it's merely troublesome and you can hardly be sure the voter really checked the VVPAT.

At that point, a DRE with VVPAT is roughly equal to Optical Scan keeping in mind that the programing of each is essentially the same and vulnerable to a large scale attack.

[Realityhack]

22. Still some diffrences.

As you pointed out you can't be sure about the voter checking the trail. In addition... the procedure for the trail being wrong can be a bit wanting.
In addition it is a lot harder easier to re-count Optical Scan on a separate machine. Even the hand count is easier.
Furthermore the optical scan machine is isolated from voters. You can't just walk up and start hacking at it.

Yes they are theoretically susceptible to some of the same attacks. But I think there are legitimate differences that should not be overlooked.

IMO what we should have is an easy to use optical scan ballot (say complete the arrow) with an open standard so anyone can produce machines to scan them... then scan every ballot with two machines from separate manufacturers, with random hand audits. Any disagreement... impound both machines for investigation, hand count the batch... pull all previous batches from those machines and re-count etc.

Sadly I do not think this will ever happen.

[Wilms]

23. Running ballots through a second machine gives me the creeps.

Of course I prefer optical scan over DREs but I really aim to not confuse the reader about the vulnerability of OpScan...and the fact that the ballots are rarely, if ever, audited effectively...making the optical scan, effectively, no better than DREs.

A lot of reform minded voters sigh of an illusionary relief exclaiming, "at least I voted on a paper ballot".

Ban the DRE. Audit the hell out of the optical scan. Secure the ballots ALWAYS.

[Realityhack]

2. How is anything you said in any way related to that stat?

I am glad your paper got a beating for being a right wing racist rag. And I am glad so many people in your town voted for Obama...
But that doesn't actually contradict the statewide figure you sited... unless I am missing something.

[Wilms]

8. You are missing something. The election results...

Of course, more than 10% of the AL population voted for Obama. I guess the OP figured that everyone would realize that.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/individual/#mapPAL

[Realityhack]

10. So where did the 10% figure come from?

And why not just post the percentage? :shrug:

I am so confused.

[Wilms]

17. The subject line in the OP says that it was a repug claim.

I hope I'm not prodding, but the OP gave the vote count for the county. I googled and found a match with Monroe. http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/states/president/alabama.html

Then I googled to find newspapers in Monroe.

And here we are:

http://www.monroejournal.com/News2.html

[Realityhack]

18. My issue was...

the repub. claim is unattributed/sourced and involves the state.
The OP gave local numbers and some (admittedly cool) anecdotal stuff.

That is a logical mismatch. Doesn't really matter but it confused me.

[Wilms]

21. Agreed. A link would have been a nice touch. n/t

[theoldman]

4. A lot more than 10% of Alabama's population is black.

I would bet that at least some of the whites voted for Obama so the 10% figure is wrong.

[EFerrari]

6. Imo, we should never believe these reported numbers unless we count ourselves

with our own fingers. It's too easy to toss out a number that gets repeated over and over again with no one even questioning it.

[dixiegrrrrl]

15. Several factors off the top of my head.

rural versus big city.
Al. has 4 big cities, 2 of them in the "north" Al. part.
Couple of "big" town. ( Dothan/Anniston area)
Lots of people from other parts of the country tend to move to the jobs there.

Rest is rural. Large number of small towns. Strong sense of community.

Many Dem whites voted for Obama, but in smaller communities will not discuss this openly.
Guy ( white ) I talked to last week mentioned he was a strong union man, always voted Dem and agreed with me that "we sure need to change the way it has been".
It would have been considered rude for me to ask him a direct question, he does not know me well, but his indirect comments told me what he needed to tell me.

Opposite side of coin:
We live in a somewhat "mixed" well kept neighborhood of mid-bracket homes.
A very nice black family lives close by, are polite, but reserved. I have tried to break the ice several times and they have said we are the only people in the neighborhood who stopped to talk. I like them a lot.
They both work, are not outside very often. They are around 40 y/o or so, I am 20 years older, which is an important distinction in this tale.
I stopped to chat last Sat. when Mr. C was in his yard, said something about being happy with the election, and he said he had had a hard time deciding who to vote for, both candidates had good qualities and points.
Wow... he was not comfortable telling me he voted for Obama,
but I knew from earlier remarks with his wife they are strong Dem, and they were thrilled at the opportunity to vote for Obama.

Hard to get the meanings of this across to non-southerners.
Not offending your neighbors is a very strong value in these small old timey towns.
People have to know you very well to discuss certain things directly.
They certainly do not express themselves openly to poll takers.

City folks, maybe different. Depends on how "southern" they really are.

I have lived on both sides of the Mississippi, and it took me years to understand what little I do about southern ways.

"Outside" pollsters ain't got a clue.

[gristy]

7. Simple facts are the easiest response, if one feels compelled to respond at all.

In Alabama, Obama got 38.8% of the vote (not 10%), and Figures (Senate candidate) got 36.5% (not 10%) of the vote.

[Realityhack]

11. I agree. n/t

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

9. I think they mean ten percent of WHITES, which is closer to the truth.

[Frances]

12. Agree

I read that 10% of whites in my native state voted for Obama.

[CreekDog]

13. 10% of Alabama whites voted for Obama

to act like the rest of the population doesn't exist is really something.

[mollymongold]

14. What is it abut Whites in the South (no offense to whites in the South on here) but why

are they so Republican when so many are so poor? Not even 15% of whites are voting Democratic for President. Many whites in states like Alabama and Mississippi live very much in poverty and yet they still vote Republican. I've been to soooooo many Southern states like this, and the whites there are around blacks more than other states in the Midwest or East or West, and from what I can tell, they are comfortable around them. So I don't understand why they vote based on racism. IDK I just don't get it.

[dixiegrrrrl]

16. Fear.

Most of the Southern whites who have it good aim to keep it.
I am talking the lawyers, community politicians, real estate people, etc. who have McCain signs in front of their rather expensive houses.
And who make the laws, own the newspapers.

Those crazy Dems want to "spread the wealth" remember?

greed and fear are a Repug. platform.
Ignorance and racism add to it.
Keep stirring the 4 together, throw in an inadequately funded school system and the Southerners natural tendency to not move away from where they were born ( black or white, it's a curious fact).
You got a real good recipe for voting the wrong way.

Your question can be turned around:
Why are there always so many poor when Republicans are in power?