Catholic Cardinal: Obama is 'apocalyptic'

[Khaotic]

Wow, fellow DU'ers assured us that the 'problems' w/ Obama were only coming from a few bad-apple priests; now this from a Cardinal.

Cardinal Stafford: Obama is 'apocalyptic'
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/business/hancock/blog/2008/11/cardinal_stafford_obama_is_apo.html

Baltimore's own James Francis Cardinal Stafford at Catholic University last week:

His Eminence James Francis Cardinal Stafford criticized President-elect Barack Obama as “aggressive, disruptive and apocalyptic,“ and said he campaigned on an “extremist anti-life platform,” Thursday night in Keane Auditorium during his lecture “Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II: Being True in Body and Soul.“
“For the next few years, Gethsemane will not be marginal. We will know that garden,” Stafford said, comparing America’s future with Obama as president to Jesus’ agony in the garden. “On November 4, 2008, America suffered a cultural earthquake.”

Cardinal Stafford said Catholics must deal with the “hot, angry tears of betrayal” by beginning a new sentiment where one is “with Jesus, sick because of love.”

The lecture, hosted by the Pontifical John Paul II Institute for Studies on Marriage and Family, pertained to Humanae Vitae, a papal encyclical written by Pope Paul VI in 1968 and celebrating its 40 anniversary this year.

Stafford also spoke about the decline of a respect for human life and the need for Catholics to return to the original values of marriage and human dignity.

“If 1968 was the year of America’s ‘suicide attempt,’ 2008 is the year of America’s exhaustion,” said Stafford, an American Cardinal and Major Penitentiary of the Apostolic Penitentiary for the Tribunal of the Holy See. “In the intervening 40 years since Humanae Vitae, the United States has been thrown upon ruins.”

Come on Vatican ... shit or get off the pot!!!

If you're going to allow leadership in the Catholic chruch to expel this tripe then you have to back it up.

I say quit beating around the bush and go ahead and excommunicate every Obama supporter nationwide.

We're right here! What are you going to do about it?!!!!

Your majority of the flock voted for Obama. Your leadership is burning up w/ hate. Do you back them or us????

[villager]

1. Time for American Catholics to split away from Rome...

Well, vastly overdue, actually...

[Joe Bacon]

107. Enough of the Cult of the Fetus!

Why don't they just change their name to the Cult of the Fetus? That's all they care about. They will bullshit endlessly about the sanctity of Freddy and Freida Fetus, but once Freddy or Freida pop out, they could care less. If Freddy starves to death, or Freida gets beaten by an abusive parent, the Catholic Church doesn't care one bit.

But then, I think Jello Biafra said it best...

Peggy Sue
Got pregnant
And was addicted to fifteen drugs
She went down
To the abortion clinic
And was accosted
By right wing thugs

Oh will the fetus
Be aborted
By and by Lord
By and by
There's a better
Home awaiting
In the sky Lord
In the sky

Little Mary
Was just eleven
And she was raped
By her own dad
Danny Quayle said
"Have that baby"
But another choice
She had

CHOROUS

Annie's pregnancy
Would kill her
Doctor's warning
Gave her strife
Fundamentalists
Said "Jesus take her"
She said, "I want
My right to life"

CHORUS

Kathy had two
Kids already
And an abortion
Is what she chose
Christian showed her
A bloody fetus
She said "That's fine
I'll have one of those."

CHORUS

Tanya lived for
Revolution
Wanted to overthrow
The state
She had fifteen
Commie babies
Phylis Schlafly
Ain't that great?

CHORUS

[Maru Kitteh]

108. yeah............ almost like, I dunno

PROTESTANTS!

Huh.

[roguevalley]

117. this man is insane. I wonder what skeletons his closet holds ...

[Ichingcarpenter]

2. Educated Catholics have sown dissent and confusion in the Church, claims bishop

University-educated Catholics are to blame for the crisis in the Church and the growth of secularism, according to the bishop charged with tackling the decline in Mass attendance.
The Rt Rev Patrick O'Donoghue, the Bishop of Lancaster, has claimed that graduates are spreading scepticism and sowing dissent. Instead of following the Church's teaching they are "hedonistic", "selfish" and "egocentric", he said.

In particular, the bishop complained that influential Catholics in politics and the media were undermining the Church.

While not naming names, he suggested that such people had been compromised by their education, which he said had a "dark side, due to original sin".

Prominent Catholics in public life include Mark Thompson, the BBC's director general, and Tony Blair, the former Prime Minister.

Bishop O'Donoghue, who has recently published a report on how to renew Catholicism in Britain, argued that mass education has led to "sickness in the Church and wider society".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/346...

[Khaotic]

10. Wow ...

The Catholic Church is on to me!

[Ichingcarpenter]

18. The University of Notre Dame is next! Right after they get that Galileo guy

I think the Church hierarchy is out of control and worried,
this stuff isn't coming from the bottom

[Arugula Latte]

15. Summary: "We like to keep people ignorant to protect their sheep-ness & faith in b.s. mythology"

[Khaotic]

23. Spot On

That's the premise of religion in general.

I mean, what a scam.

- Manufacture something called a 'sin.'
- Say that 'sinning' puts you into a fiery place; never ending pain, etc., etc.
- Insist that doubting or questioning the dogma behind the religion is sinning too.

Can anyone think of a business model where blind faith is created as a key variable for the success of the product ... and people buy into it?!!!

This is why the ingredients are posted on the back of our food. Blind faith is just plain stupid.

[VWolf]

33. I can.

It's called the republican agenda. A business model that continues to work with almost half of America.

[Khaotic]

38. True

They do depend on their followers to have blind faith in the free market.

Somehow, throwing to the side that the bottom line will not induce greed.

Even though we can depend on the existence of greed the same as we can depend on the sun rising in the east and setting in the west, they want to cover their eyes and plug their ears.

"La, la, la, la ... don't disturb me, free market solves everything, monopolies are okay, CEOs should make 50x the amount of their workers, who needs a middle class, la, la, la, la, laaaaa! Stay behind our curtain! Don't look outside at the crazy people who doubt us, they're evil, they're liberal. La, la, la, la, laaaaaaa!"

[4_Legs_Good]

44. BS! Blind Faith ROCKS!!!!

Had to cry today...

David

[arewenotdemo]

58. Precisely!

[anonymous171]

17. HOLY SHIT THEY'VE FOUND ME OUT!

[Forkboy]

32. There's a reason why the Tree of Knowledge was considered forbidden fruit in Eden.

The Church likes people dumb.

[ladjf]

64. And so does the Republican Party and for the same reasons. nt

[Forkboy]

70. You got it.

x(

[ljm2002]

96. Interestingly...

...in all the versions of the Bible I've looked at, the phrase used is "the tree of knowledge of good and evil", rather than just "the tree of knowledge".

Using the term "tree of knowledge" seems to me to distort the meaning of it, which would appear to be more of a moral-knowledge type of question, rather than a scientific-knowledge type of question. And yet that is always the phrase I see used when people have these discussions.

Oh well -- I'm no theologian. Carry on... :-)

[4_Legs_Good]

42. I would have a hard time finding something stupider to say...

Essentially:

"As people become more educated, they realize religion is probably BS and don't want to be controlled by Rome, so education is to blame."

What a dufus.

David

[comrade snarky]

75. I guess the good bishop

Is sad more didn't follow me and leave his corrupt church all together.

I so want to see these bastards try to enforce their narrow views on ever dwindling parishes. Keep pushing that "education bad" thing dumb ass, that's going to go over real well.

[BattyDem]

3. "extremist anti-life platform"

So ... McCain's "hundred years in Iraq" and "bomb, bomb Iran" were pro-life ideas? :eyes:

[Crunchy Frog]

72. Life only counts when it's in the female reproductive tract.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

4. The Church Hierarchy is completely out of touch with American Catholics

My parish said that we were to vote based on all issues, not only abortion.

[ladjf]

65. The Church and the Republicans is "out of touch" with more than

the American majority, they are out of touch with the basic processes of existence.

[onehandle]

5. "Generic attack on the Catholic church"

"Offhand comment about pedophiles"

"Follow-up about taxing churches"

"Claim about leaving the church years ago"

There. I've provided the comments for everyone who will respond to this thread.

[Bill McBlueState]

90. Why would you expect any different?

A leading member of that organization called our President-elect "aggressive, disruptive, and apocalyptic." Of course we're going to be critical.

[Maru Kitteh]

110. You left out ridicule of faith in general and

snide comments about mental illness in the name of "tolerance."

[Alter Ego]

6. Ah, Catholics...thank you for reminding me why I split from the church

so long ago.

[abumbyanyothername]

7. This kind of tripe finally drove me out for good

Of course, I was only a quasi-Catholic to begin with (adult convert through the RCIA process).

My ties weakened with the "no women in the priesthood" controversy. Not so much the decision as the rationale. ("There are places in the world that will never accept women as priests." -- that's just like Jesus. Screw principle, go with what the mob wants.)

Then I married my beautiful, caring and Jewish wife who felt uncomfortable at Mass.

Finally, the manner with which the church as a whole, and the Los Angeles Diocese in particular dealt with the sex abuse charges was shameful and unacceptable.

[HelenWheels]

21. Treament of women

I left the church years ago after I figured out how they had the women doing all the work and getting none of the power.

[SharonAnn]

79. Me too. They get no money from me, no support, and no encouragement.

[4_Legs_Good]

34. Me too

But RCIA Catholics tend to be the most ferverent, I've found.

I am a born Catholic with generations of Catholics behind me, and I couldn't stand this stuff anymore after 2004, then add in a right turn for my parish and electing Ratzinger (after JPII being barely passable IMO), and I was done.

I don't think, though, that most people understand just how painful and difficult it is to leave a church. It's something I would never do unless I really felt I was driven to it.

And these idiots are going to drive themselves right down the phoney righteous drain, and put themselves out of business.

Geeshus.

David

Edit: typo

[Khaotic]

49. You're Right

It is very hard to leave a church, especially if you're family is entrenched.

When it comes to arguements, religion and politics are #1 on the list.

When it comes to dealbreakers religion has no equal.

The reason for this is the dogma that it surrounds itself.

Instead of family coming first the mythical deity comes first.

While there's a lot of screaming and such with politics, it doesn't usually mean the total end to the family.

Not so w/ religion.

It's so fucked up that grandparents have taken their children to court and attempted to take custody away from them to 'protect' their grandchildren. They truly believe that they have just reason to save someone's soul.

In their eyes, they have just as much right (or even more) to intervene on religious grounds as they would if physical abuse were witnessed.

Not long ago there were some grandparents who attempted to take their grandchildren away from their parents because they were being raised in the Wiccan religion.

It's the gorilla sitting in the room for millions of families during holidays and other family gatherings. Everyone trying to keep the peace and bite their tongues because they know if it's brought up that fists could fly and the family could spilt up permantly.

With the threat of your children NEVER seeing or talking to their grandparents again, sometimes it's best to just say nothing and go through the motions. You know what you think and no one can control your thoughts.

[SharonAnn]

76. Supposedly Jesus didn't have any women as apostles. Well, he didn't have any gentiles, either.

Supposedly he only had circumcised, Jewish men as apostles. Following that logic, then only circumcised, Jewish men could be ordained as priests.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

[KittyWampus]

8. So is Ratzinger and the name he choose as Pope.

[liberalMOmama]

16. How exactly is Obama "aggressive and disruptive"

I'm not getting it.

[Arugula Latte]

9. I wish people would just stop attending and supporting and donating to these churches.

The Catholic Church, like most other churches, is just a corrupt institution run by a bunch of hypocritical, anti-women control freaks.

[Cleita]

48. I'm doing my part.

I haven't put a foot in church for the past fifty years, with the exceptions of weddings and funerals, something you have to attend. They certainly haven't gotten money from me either.

[Avalux]

11. James Francis Cardinal Stafford - shut the fuck up. n/t

[dflprincess]

12. 1968 was the year of the Church's "suide attempt".

When Paul VI made support of Humanae Vitae a limitus test for advancement he doomed the Church to be run by mediocre, one issue thinkers.

[olegramps]

98. Absolutely correct.

Their only rational was if they contradicted the ridiculous anti-sexual doctrine condemning contraception that they would lose their credibility. What the sought to protect, they destroyed.

[Zynx]

13. The Catholic Church is a vast organization with many disparate views.

I have no doubt a significant part of the clergy is opposed to Obama and the Democrats, however it would be a mistake to go nuts over it.

[zulchzulu]

14. Sic the IRS on their fucking asses!

Enough of this bullshit. You wanna be political and still maintain your tax-exempt status?

It doesn't work that way, Reverend. Shut your lying piehole.... or pay the fuck up.

[TlalocW]

19. I'm a firm believer in follow the money when it comes to history

Case in point - the abortion rate going down under Clinton's economy. I think some of the reasons the rate dropped varied from couples with unexpected pregnancies being able to afford to have the kid to high school kids playing it smart because they had a better chance of affording college (plus actual sex-ed classes helped educate them) to being able to afford birth control.

If Obama can repeat Clinton's economy (and raising taxes on the upper 3% was a major reason the economy did so well under Clinton), we'll see the abortion rate go down again, and I hope it gets pointed out to these idiots.

TlalocW

[abumbyanyothername]

30. The abortion rate argument

I did a little research on this one after it came up in a phone bank conversation with a voter in CO.

As near as I can tell, abortion rates have been dropping since Bush I. They fell faster under Clinton than under Bush I, and faster under Clinton than in the first term of Bush II. The data on the second term of Bush II is not clear.

But in any event, the total rate of abortion has continued to fall through Bush II's regime, continuing the drop that started with Bush I, accelerated under Clinton, and then slowed, but continued during Bush II. Again, to the best of my knowledge.

[Khaotic]

35. And ya know ...

I wonder where any stats on abortion would exist if Roe v Wade were overturned?

I'll tell you ... no where.

The issue would be swept under the carpet and the Christian Reich would believe that somehow they saved the collective soul of America.

The reality would be completely different as drugs are now available on the black market to terminate a pregnancy. The profound statement of making abortion illegal thus (by the Pro-Life Agenda mindset) no longer 'condoning' it, would have little or zero impact on pregnant women who might be thinking about terminating their pregnancy.

[alsame]

20. BS like this is why I left the Catholic church as soon as I was

old enough to think for myself.

[OKNancy]

22. What about Bush?

I didn't notice that he had much regard for life......
and as far as abortion is concerned, it's still legal even after Bush.

[Ichingcarpenter]

26. Bush 'may convert to Catholicism' as did Tony Blair.

President George Bush was given such a splendid welcome by Pope Benedict XVI yesterday that rumours started flying that the President, like Tony Blair before him, was on the verge of converting to Catholicism.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/bush-may-convert-to-catholicism-846953.html


George W Bush meets Pope amid claims he might convert to Catholicism
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2122733/George-W-Bush-meets-Pope-amid-claims-he-might-convert-to-Catholicism.html

[WinkyDink]

120. Yeah, I can hear his Act of Contrition now: "Forgive...uh,,,forgive our trespassers...they've

committed sins."

[otohara]

24. Tad Dramatic Old Man

go back to Spain where they too are happy with the election of Barack Obama.

[okieinpain]

25. I imagine that this will sound racist, but I've got to say it. the pope's

control over his followers is what frightens me most about having a large inflow of low information voters coming from south america.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Yet Latinos voted overwhelmingly for Obama.

[Drunken Irishman]

40. Most Catholics did.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. Yes.

Obama won the Catholic vote by 9 pts.

[Drunken Irishman]

62. Just as some Democrats don't speak for all us Democrats...

Some Catholics don't speak for all us Catholics.

:(

[Khaotic]

29. Pope Control ...

Is waning.

With each passing day more and more Catholics are using their brains.

More and more are looking at the Dogma and coming to conclusions that it's bullshit.

I'd really like to see estimates on how many people attend church from time to time, but only do so to keep the peace in their families.

As the older (close minded) Catholics die off, their offspring are more and more likely to brush the Catholic-dirt from their heels and leave the bullshit behind.

In the next 25 years the Catholic church will really be hurting if it doesn't look at itself in the mirror.

Unfortunately, there are nutjob groups out there pushing the Catholic church to get back to their roots and become more conservative. They want them to get back to pre-Vatican II era practices.

If Catholic leadership caters to that group, then they're a bunch of idiots, which they very well might be.

[4_Legs_Good]

39. Exactly, they're putting themselves out of business with this crap

and their tendency lately to fight for the right-wing Christians.

The church, under a new Pope could turn its attention away from its utter fascination with sex, and towards social justice and spirituality, and people would flock to it again. I know I would.

Their time is running out, because people like me, who have been Catholic all their lives, and have a deep bond with the church, are finding it no longer worthwhile to make excuses for all the crap they're churning out.

David

[okieinpain]

67. well that would be a big relief. I remember seeing a article where

the cardinals in south american was telling the poor that using controceptives was the same as abortion, and that they needed to have large families. never mind that they were presently living on a hill made of garbage.

[mmonk]

99. You're right. It does.

[jakefrep]

27. Obama's not even Catholic...

Why the hell do they care what kind of agenda he's allegedly promoting?

[Khaotic]

31. Because ...

The majority of Catholics who went to the polls voted for Obama over McCain.

Church leadership is freaking and feels that Catholics are going back to their liberal JFK-era leanings.

:-)

[TygrBright]

37. "Back to?" Most of the ones I know never left.

If anything, they've tentatively started coming "back to" active involvement in the Church as some gestures of tolerance and a few tentative attempts to deal with the pedophilia scandals have penetrated their consciousness, and some local leaders (nuns and a few priests) have signaled that it's okay not to agree politically with Church leaders.

This new wave of bigotry and intolerance will drive them right back out again. And a couple million others with them.

If it's not careful, the Church is going to be left behind-- a sad, insular, irrelevant bunch of cranky old men and patriarchal African and South American leaders whinging about the horrors of the modern world in an uncaring vacuum.

dismissively,
Bright

[PassingFair]

116. "Back to".. as in most of them voted for BUSH for 2 terms.

2 of my Catholic friends left the church
during Bush's "reign".

Mostly over the pro-war preaching they
were subject to in their pews.

[Hawaii Hiker]

36. What else is new - Another zonked out religious KOOK!

This time the kook is a cardinal instead of the usual altar boy abusing priest....

[foxfeet]

41. Catholic Cardinal is apoplectic.

:crazy:

[Hansel]

43. Hyperbolic much?

[Blue_Tires]

45. he just meant apocalyptically AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cleita]

46. What's that separation of church and state thing?

Maybe taking his archdiocese's tax free status away for a year might send a message to the rest of the Bishops, Archbishops and Cardinals.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

47. He's the Barackalypse!

[reflection]

118. I thought it was Obamageddon. n/t

[Waiting For Everyman]

50. Now we know who's for corporatism. Big surprise. n/t

[southernyankeebelle]

51. Go Away

If the church excommunicates a lot of catholics there would be no one left. The religious order forgets they have their own closet to worry about. I don't need to go to church to say my rosary and pray. I do that now at home. They have become irrelevant. Believe me I've seen many of ministers and priests at work. I use to work at a military chaplains office. They are no better than anyone else.

[AspenRose]

53. Wow! A man who opposed the Iraq War is "aggressive.....and apocalyptic?"

Who knew?

I learn something new every day. :crazy:

[vssmith]

74. And Pope John Paul II said about the war,

“Go into Iraq and you go without God”

[zbdent]

54. and people wonder why lefties speak out against Catholics ...

remember, all liberals are Communists, Socialists, Fascists, Atheists, baby-killers, welfare queens having hundreds of babies, yadda yadda yadda ...

but point out that some Catholics are psychotic, and "Wow ... you sure are painting with a broad brush ..."

[skeewee08]

55. Did Bill Clinton get this much criticism when he was

elected and re-elected from the Religious Sect?

[Khaotic]

56. A Look at the Kook

Link to the whack job's wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Francis_Stafford

[MagickMuffin]

57. Ohh Boo HOO HOO

KARMA just run over your DOGMA.

Get over it.

[kenny blankenship]

59. TAX THIS CHURCH!

Excuse me. Tax this FUCKING church.

[TheZug]

60. How does child molestation fit into "respect for human life and dignity"?

The Church disgusts me. Just a few years past their monstrous cover-up of widespread molestation by priests and they have the nerve to admonish others for their perceived moral failings.

[ladjf]

66. After 2000 years of flagrant criminal activity, the Catholic Church still

survives. That amazes me.

[graywarrior]

61. I'm so sick of these fundies

[cliffordu]

63. It would be too bad if this guy burned in hell. Really.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

68. Where is the next John XXIII? The Catholic Church definitely

needs a pope like him again.

[alwysdrunk]

69. It's getting harder and harder to not be anti-religion

Not just non-religious, but straight up, openly anti-religion and anti-religious leaders. This shit is getting ridiculous. And it seems so much harsher all of a sudden this cycle. Where the hell are the moderates speaking out against this type of garbage?

[BritishDemocrat]

71. A plurality of American Catholics voted for Obama

and were the only mainstream religious group apart from Jews to do so.

In effect, he's questioning the judgement of the majority of the Church's supporters.

Let's hope this quickens the detruction of the Church, which is already happening here in Europe.

Every cloud has a silver lining.

[nichomachus]

73. Boy, you pry these guys away from their little boys

and they go into withdrawal pretty quickly.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

77. Someone please explain to me why they still have their tax-exempt status?

[TexasObserver]

78. The Catholic Church is a malignant growth.

There's the 5% of their work that is good, and the 95% that is pure evil, little more than a medieval, fascist, power hungry group of degenerate old men.

Massive filing of complaints to the IRS about them is one way to address their tax deductible status. While it may not be successful, it will make them play defense.

[Pirate Smile]

80. "Catholics — who made up 26 percent of the voters today — went for Obama 53 percent to 45 percent."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/04/exit-polls-the-religion-factor/

[nichomachus]

82. Which is what pissed this jerk off -- he's losing his grip

That's why they're turning their attention to gay marriage -- it's their last gasp.

Back in my day, the Catholics wouldn't even talk to the Mormons and the fundies -- much less join forces with them. They're circling the wagons.

[jakefrep]

81. The Church hasn't figured out ...

...that people are sick of getting lectures about abortion from people who start frivolous wars.

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

83. It's a plot!

First the one in Kansas City, then in Charleston, and now this guy. Dude, try to imagine how little we care!

[BootinUp]

84. They will slowly drive more away, the winds have changed

this sort of bombastic hellfire stuff would have worked better a couple decades ago.

[Khaotic]

85. Hellfire

Woe to You Oh Earth and Sea
for the Devil sends the beast with wrath
because he knows the time is short
Let him who hath understanding
reckon the number of the beast
for it is a human number
its number is six hundred and sixty six.

[CANDO]

86. No, it's you ignorant fundie fucks who are the Apocalyptic ones!

eom

[Danger Mouse]

87. The Catholic Church needs to address this shit and do it fast.

[opihimoimoi]

88. Old DOGMA hanging on to POWER that is slowly diminishing

Let them repent when they find out the TRUTH....The ZERG is coming...they will RULE and we will OBEY....

[Khaotic]

89. Zerg ...

What about the great Spaghetti Monster?!

[Khaotic]

91. Oh Shit ...

Breaking News ...

The great and powerful Flying Spaghetti Monster has manifested itself into physical reality and is looking to destroy the Catholic Church!!!!

Here comes anti-dogma to destroy Cardinal Stafford!

[BootinUp]

92. dang, I wish someone had got video! lol.

[opihimoimoi]

94. No shit...clips of the SM eating the Bells of the Church....

Here come de ZERG

[HughMoran]

93. This fool must be defrocked now!

...or someone should take a crap on his face - one or the other.

[sniffa]

95. God bless the dying church in this country

[olegramps]

97. There is no such thing as Original Sin.

It was a nitwit concept dreamed up by Augustine to support his totally warped concept of sexuality. Read his works and you will find he was nothing more than a heretic who condemned sexual intercourse as the means for the transmission of original sin. At the urging of his mother, a recognised saint of the church, he threw out his mistress after abandoning his infatuation with Manichaeism for seventeen years. It was from this source that he derived his perverted doctrines.

The doctrines of original sin, infant damnation and predestination are all heresies that were never taught by the Apostolic Fathers. As for celibate priests, anyone who takes a vow never to marry is in direct contradiction to the very first commandment of God, that He made them male and female and for this reason they are to sever the ties to the parents and become one. No Jew would ever agree that a vow of celibacy is an orthodox teaching or is the concept of man inheriting sin. Sin is something you choose to do, not something that you inherit. After reading the Church Fathers in seminary, I soon came to the conclusion that Christianity abandoned the true teaching of the Fathers for heresies spread by those such as Augustine, Ambrose and the especially warped Jerome.

[SeattleGirl]

100. Better put me on the excommunication list too.

I think the Catholic Church is on the verge of out-fundying the fundies.

[olegramps]

101. The Catholic Church in America will follow the fate of the Church in Europe.

Europeans are about fifty years ahead of America in its abandonment of Catholicism. Pope John XXIII saw that if the church didn't abandon it medieval concepts and move into the 20th century that it was doomed. Unfortunately, those who succeeded him have no vision and have attempted to drag the church back to the lockstep obedience of the pre-Vatican II era. If you read the documents of Vatican II and the speeches by the bishops, you can only be amazed how progressive and especially well informed them were.

The present crop of hierarchy are men of no vision and stunted intelligence. The intellectuals have abandoned the church and all they can attract are the boring dregs of mediocrity. These are people that can be easily convince to believe that most asinine concepts.

[WindRiverMan]

102. How can they call Obama anti-life, when Bush financed the Iraq war with treasuries sold to China????

The gendercide in China created by Bejing's one-child policy is simply mind boggling when one looks at the numbers. Over fifty million girls that have been born are not "gone" according to the World Health Organization. Just gone, no records, no death certificates, they just are not there anymore. Plus, an estimated 1/3 of all baby girls are aborted because they are female. The orphanages are filled with baby girls. It is an extermination of females in China. Yet the Church manages to overlook this little inconsistency, and Bush's policy of strong trade relations with China, including selling government treasuries to finance the war in Iraq. It is the biggest and largest hypocrisy I have ever witnessed. He did this so he could give tax breaks to the rich, and had no other way to finance the war.

Just because you say you are pro-life does not make it so. Please Church, wake up and smell the roses. The devastation wreaked on the unborn in China makes U.S. abortions look like a drop in the bucket.

Personally, I find a politician who does not believe life begins at conception and acts accordingly much more palatable than one who professes strong pro-life stances, but does other things to ensure his cronies get some more money.

[bluedawg12]

103. Did that little matter of the Inquisition teach them nothing?

They're still meddling with politics - and badly.

Here's another example, human rights:

http://www.365gay.com/news/maine-catholics-told-to-oppose-gay-marriage/

Portland, Maine) The leader of Maine’s Roman Catholics has told churchgoers across the state they have a moral duty to oppose moves to legalize same-sex marriage in the state.

Although no legislation has been introduced in the state House, LGBT groups are gathering support for gay marriage. Bills have been filed in neighboring Vermont and New Hampshire. Same-sex marriage already is legal in Massachusetts and Connecticut.

[casus belli]

104. Careful, that's your tax exempt status you're bargaining with Cardinal.

It's time they start revoking tax exempt status for some of these church leaders who have forgotten that they are required by law to keep their noses out of people's political business. It seems some have forgotten why our fore-fathers came to this country in droves in the first place.

Now, for a politican with the backbone to actually do it...

[windoe]

105. Churches advocating prejudice and using hate speech to incite violence

against other Americans should be guilty of crimes, treason if they incite violence against a president, and they should lose their tax exempt status. Period. I know I am in the minority, but extremism has to be nipped in the bud, or this country will be ruled by the religious caste.

Where are the emotionally mature and psychologically balanced spiritual leaders, to put these religious nuts in their place?! Now is the time for them to speak out against hate speech in churches. This has to stop!!

[RagAss]

106. If we need any more shit out of you Cardinal, we'll just gently squeeze your fucking head !

[Khaotic]

109. Straight up!

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

111. Please, Catholics, explain to me what has happened

to the church in the last forty years. John XXIII was a man of immense heart, humanity and goodness. I am an atheist but hold him in the highest regard. He was Christlike in the best possible sense of the term, a warm, open man with great generosity of spirit and a humaneness that is still inspiring. He truly seemed to believe in the universal brotherhood of humanity and did everything he could to advance that belief. Like the Dalai Lama, he represented everything that is good in spiritual aspiration. What happened?

His successors, even JPII, admirable in many ways, but ultimately a prisoner of dogma, have been crabbed, dogmatic and joyless men. Benny the Rat is a bad lawyer, resting everything on archaic precedent and ignoring the world as people live in it. Was John that much of an aberration?

There is a wonderful quote from the English teacher/philosopher J.G. Bennett: "The Catholic Church is the custodian of a mystery that it does not understand."

[saltpoint]

112. There sure were a lot of Catholics who voted blue this cycle.

Would the good Cardinal have them all excommunicated? Booted out? Kicked to the curb?

Do it, you fool. Kick out anybody you think voted for Obama. Do not WALK to historical irrelevance -- RUN as fast as you can.

The generation the Catholic heirarchy will need to remain vibrant and relevant voted in very large percentages for Barack Obama, and across almost all demographic borders.

[Khaotic]

113. Too True

I say bring it Cardinal.

Don't walk the razor's edge and cast stones from your pulpit.

Bring it on ... go all the way!

Excommunicate ALL OF US who voted for Obama!!!!

DO IT!!!!!!

[TexasObserver]

114. I wouldn't mind religion so much if they'd call them HATE CLUBS instead of CHURCHES

God and Jesus would repudiate the Catholic Church, given the chance. How anyone can read the New Testament and come up with the Catholic church is unfathomable. They took everything Jesus said not to do, and they did it. EVERYTHING.

[BuyingThyme]

115. The Catholic Church is a hostile foreign nation.

We should start treating them as such.

[WinkyDink]

119. Just when I forget why I'm a "lapsed Catholic", I get a reminder.

[Khaotic]

121. Lapsed Catholic

I didn't think that was a real term, but wiki has it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsed_Catholic

So once a Catholic, always a Catholic ... like it or not.

Until now ...



Yep, for those wanting to make it official, you can get yourself de-baptised!

Here's a link to the site: http://www.secularism.org.uk/debaptism.html

Then, onto happiness ...