How to balance the budget: Revoke tax-free status of churches abusing 501(c)(3) status

[zulchzulu]

You seen it. There are preachers, bishops, cardinals and even the Vatican chiming in about how Barack Obama is a "threat", "apocalyptic" or worse.

These institutions are protected by 501(c)(3) tax-free status:

501(c)(3) exemptions apply to corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition, or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals.

Organizations with this classification are prohibited from conducting political campaign activities to influence elections to public office.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)#501.28c.29.283.29

With Catholic leaders carelessly LYING about Barack Obama for political gain and thinking they can do it without getting penalized, it is indeed time to send the message to them to either SHUT UP or PAY UP.

Our economy could use a trillion dollar injection from the Catholic Church (I used to be a member) finally ponying up and paying their taxes. We need the money. They want to abuse their tax-free status. They can afford it apparently by their behavior.

If they want to continue obfuscating , simply start paying taxes. Let's see the checks come flying in. Otherwise, they will have to shut the HELL up.

[VeraAgnes]

1. I dream of the day to tax these crooks!

Since, they are so damn political!

[BOSSHOG]

2. Yeah, instead of pussy footing around the subject

Okay you guys don't do that again or really gonna come down hard on you.

[Parche]

5. Hey Boss

He who farts in church, sits in their own pew

I say tax them all 200%, and tax that all the evangelicals even more
Especially Kenneth Copeland, Billy Grahamcracker, and the fukwad Pat Robertson who i would
love to slam him into the ground :grr: :grr: :grr:

I despise all of those guys, they brainwash people, and take from the elderly :grr: :grr:




PS I am reading this one again....




:hi: :patriot:

[BOSSHOG]

6. My sweet old Grandma

A loyal Southern Baptist (whose been dead for about 14 years) lived off a soldier's pension and social security but every month she would send a few bucks to Oral Roberts. I would never say anything to her but I wanted to kick his worthless fucking sorry ass.

I say take away the tax exempt status and they can politic all they want. Now that would really be separation of church and state but the selfish bastards wouldn't see it that way.

Currently reading Submarine Fiction "Scimitar SL-2" about a terrorist with a submarine in the current day. The author, Patrick Robinson, does a great job with military fiction.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. Apart from the political stuff

I've long been of the opinion that most churches should only be tax exempt to the extent that they do things to help the community - and no, giving them Bibles and prosletyzing doesn't count - I'm talking stuff like food, clothing, and shelter. In my community, there are no fewer that 6 gleaming megachurches, complete with basketball courts, coffee shops, child care, giant stages for the rock bands they hire to perform, and enormous parking lots to contain all the SUVs. They might be doing some charity work but not much that I'm aware of. AFAIC, as a taxpayer, I'm subsidizing Vacation Bible School for rich brats and it really chaps my hide.

[zulchzulu]

10. I bet there aren't too many rusty cars in the parking lot

I'm astounded by just how vain and tacky some of the megachurches I've seen are. They would be the LAST place Jesus would want to hang out around.

[tabbycat31]

24. I agree wtih you 100%

and if they do invovle themselves in charity work/community service, they should help out the community with no strings attached.

I did do charity work in churches growing up (I stopped attending church in 2nd grade) but I remember our Girl Scout troop helping make sandwiches for Midnight Runs (for shelters in NYC) at the churches. That kind of work I have no problem subsidizing as a taxpayer.

I live in the northeast,so I've never seen one of these megachurches. I did hear of one online that spent 200K on a giant marble cross. I don't think that Uncle Sam needs to subsidize a marble cross. Seriously.

[slackmaster]

4. OK with me, but why limit the action to churches?

This year gave me a lot of practical experience in the "real" world of politics.

I would agree that churches are among the most egregious violators of tax-exempt status in terms of partisan electioneering; but I also observed in:

- A business development consortium,

- A legal aid society,

- A local historical preservation group, and

- A major LGBT community center.

These groups were every bit in violation of the tax code as the Roman Catholic Church and the Mormons.

[WCGreen]

7. I wonder just how many people would flock to the Right Wing churches

if they couldn't deduct their contribution to that church

[AtomicKitten]

8. Word x 1,000.

Tax the bastards. Hard.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

9. Wholeheartedly agree. The problems lie with the execution, however.

It's a very fine line between advocacy and conducting political operations. Sure, there are more than enough clear-cut ones out there, but it's the grey area that could get EXTREMELY problematic and would risk distancing the followers of those organizations politically.

[ddeclue]

11. You know Martin Luther King, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton

all were/are preachers...

There is a good argument to be made that you are interfering with their free speech rights. You can't just apply this rule to conservative preachers you don't like and plenty of politicians, particularly white Democrats love to show up at black churches during election season to get the pastors blessing.

Whatever you do it has to be even handed and it has to respect not just the religion clause of the first amendment but also the freedom of speech and petition for redress of grievances clauses.

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[RollWithIt]

13. I don't think many underrstand the influence that urban churches had on this election....

They never actually said "Vote for Obama" though. They just talked about Obama for hours, lol.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. i think supporting causes is allowed hence even though we want to strip

the mormon church of its tax exempt status we cant

however the catholic church tried to interfere in direct politics hiding behind abortion. that is what crosses the line and the law.

[ddeclue]

15. I don't really see where in the First Amendment language

you can start drawing all these arbitrary lines as to what kind of political speech is allowed and what kind is not.

I don't think the IRS rules would survive a trip to the SCOTUS.

Doug D.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. seperation of church and state. it is not that the catholic church will be arrested

for free speech violation but for a church to meddle in state affairs, they should lose their tax exempt status

[ddeclue]

20. Nowhere in the First Amendment does it say that churches can't meddle in state affairs..

Actually the point of the First Amendment is to define what GOVERNMENT can and cannot do, not what RELIGION can or cannot do.

The First Amendment does not say that churches can't meddle in state affairs. It says that the STATE can't meddle in church affairs. That after all is what the Founders were afraid of, another Church of England where the church was actually a puppet of the state.

Doug D.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. does the first amendment guarantee tax exempt status to religious organizations?

[ddeclue]

22. That's a court decision that taxation is an undue burden

on religion that violates the establishment clause...it's not literally written into the Constitution. Then again the income tax wasn't originally part of the Constitution either.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

23. exactly, so first amendment violation in relation to tax exempt status

is not the issue. seperation of state and religion is.

[ddeclue]

27. I think a reasonable argument can be made that

the churches first amendment speech rights are not contingent upon surrendering their tax exempt status, that their tax exempt status is protected separately under the establishment clause and is not linked to a requirement that they remain mute - indeed a church's religious dogma might well have a political component to it from equal rights for all, issues of social justice or pacifism on the left to anti-abortion, or school prayer on the right. Either way whether I agree with that speech or not is NOT the issue, those organizations, like any other are entitled to speak out on issues of importance to them without government imposed censorship - their tax status is NOT contingent upon their willingness to forego their free speech rights.

Doug D.

[RollWithIt]

12. Actually, under Obama religious funding will shift to the cities

Particularly urban churches. Some of them will even be, gasp, catholic charities! Like the one he worked for in Chicago. May I add, it's actually a good investment because those groups are the only ones doing anything for the homeless in most major cities.

[mucifer]

16. I have no problem with that. But, I am a hospice nurse. I've gone to funerals on

the south side and west side of Chicago and I have seen (tho very rarely) political literature in a church. Not a fancy church with lots of money.

[mopinko]

17. hey, at least tax their money making ventures. catholic university here owns

half the neighborhood, and is building big ass condos with something called tiff funds. tiffs are basically property tax forgiveness for investing in "blighted" areas. somehow, prime lakefront property and the downtown financial district qualify as blighted. :crazy:
tax the parking lots and the real estate just like anyone else. that right there would do it. schools, hospital, fine. condos? :wtf:

[madmadmad]

18. tax the f*ck outta 'em!

[slackmaster]

25. Why limit it to the churches?

I say revoke tax-exempt status for ALL organizations that abuse it.

[Perky]

26. Idiocy!!! !You can't impose the death penalty on a buck-fifty crime.

Look I despise the conflation of Church and politics as much as anyone. But taking away the 501(3)(c) is waaaaay over the top and probably unconstitutional,

Taxing the church makes the church subservient to the state. If you do it as group punishment for the behavior of a few hundred of the hundred thousand churches it is ugly and abusive. More importantly, if churches lost their status, donations would suffer and to the extent that churches do good work in the community with homeless shelters, food banks, random acts of kindness, English as a second language and so on, it would hurt those efforts and hurt volunteerism and community activism as well.

[southerncrone]

28. AMEN!

:evilgrin:

These arrogant, self-appointed saviors are constantly stepping over the line by promoting or denigrating candidates from the pulpit.

It must be stopped!

[RagAss]

29. AAAAAMMMEEENNN !!!

[RagAss]

30. Wonderful, the church of the pedophiles is smearing Barack !

Give them a pointy fucking hat and they make themselves the kings of the universe !

TAX these Bastards!!!!