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What are the chances the GOP will divorce the religious right ?

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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:42 PM
Original message
Poll question: What are the chances the GOP will divorce the religious right ?
You know the drill and thank you :) When I say "divorce", I mean reformulate their party without relying on the religious right to win elections.

Steve
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. they will get naked and slip into bed with them
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Right or wrong I'll stay with you" -Ballad of the Know-Nothing Republicon Homelanders
Edited on Mon Nov-17-08 03:47 PM by SpiralHawk
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. I say none.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. If not they will "spend a long time in the political wilderness" sez Christine Todd Whitman
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demokatgurrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. Without the religious right, they'd be a true minority party. n/t
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. There would be very little left to the republican party. No way they would cut them out.
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Essene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. They didnt dominate during the Reagan years n/t
Their stronghold on the GOP is fairly new, mostly since 1994.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Trial separation first
The RR can try dating other political parties. Let's see, the Libertarians probably won't like them and their tastes in music clash. The Greens are out; that would not work.

Maybe a short but meaningful fling with the Alaskan Independence Party?
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. I still say the religious wrong
will start their own party soon.
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. They'll probably go back to.....
making promises to the Religious Right during elections, and then forgetting them. It won't work, of course. The Religious Right has finally caught on to that trick. But because it has worked before, the GOP will try it again.

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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. Not a chance
Fundies are the only voter group the GOP can be assured of at this point.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Republicans pretty much ARE the religious right
It's the moderates who have been, and will continue to be, kicked to the kerb. Such is ever the fate of those who seek purity, loyalty oaths, and an absence of all dissent.
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
34. Word.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. What do you consider "the GOP"?
The Republican Party is splitting.

The religious right/low-information voter part is reforming with an updated agenda...which includes ignoring the moderates. They seem to have the numbers (the majority of what most consider to be the "Republican Party")...but not enough to win national elections.

The new "Republican Party" we all see for the next few years will demonstrate even more religious zealotry and pandering to idiots than what we've seen so far.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. Slim to none. They lost the fiscal conservatives
8 years ago. They've got nothing left.
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DangerousRhythm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Basically. I voted for 0%.
I'd love for them to shed some religious nuts but I doubt it'll happen. :(
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. If they GOP got rid of the religious right, all they'd have left is a third of their party.
Edited on Mon Nov-17-08 04:03 PM by TexasObserver
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CANDO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. I say 25%
They know it will banish them to political wilderness for awhile, but they must do it to ever become viable again. Of course the Democrats can find a way to stink up Washington once again and all will be sunny again for the GOP.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. Zero percent that they will do it any time soon. It's all they have...It will take
another couple of cycles of losing before they get the picture and kick them to the curb.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
17. Not right now, but someday.....
Edited on Mon Nov-17-08 07:04 PM by Canuckistanian
When they finally take a hard look at the "Return on Investment" that the fundies bring them, especially after the Palin debacle, I think they'll start at least asking questions behind closed doors.

Until then, the tension will be thick enough to cut with a knife.

These are good times. Enjoy them.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. If they pick the nuts out of the peanut brittle, they're not left with much.
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
19. Nil, nada, none, diddly-squat, zero, zippo!
:)
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
21. 0%. The fundies have to much raw power. It's the moderates that are going to get the boot.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
22. They have no choice but to stick with them, single party rule is NOT out of the question
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qwlauren35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
23. I seriously think that the party needs to split.
There seem to be three factions:
- the religious right
- the extremely wealthy
- the self-made entrepreneurs

Oops... and racists. Forgot about them.

At any rate, I think the financial and moral components of the party would do well to divorce. We'll see if it happens.

However, I don't think it would have been so bad if the Democratic party had split, with the progressives and moderates divorcing.

There is much to be said for a multi-party government.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. More likely the American Taliban will take over the party & kick out the other factions.
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Essene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. They are losing the middle right (and fiscal conservatives) now...
The GOP's window of opportunity to develop a new moderate coalition was 2006-2008.

Mccain barely won the primary and then they had him pander to the religious right some more. It's now permanently grounded in nativist and theocratic reactionary politics.
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FKA MNChimpH8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
47. In the short term, you are right, IMHO
Palin did us a favor. She let the real kooks out of the GOP's attic, and they are now in the middle of the dinner party, shrieking their kookery at the top of their lungs like shit-flinging monkeys at the zoo. This is why the conservative intelligentsia, such as it is, turned on McCain. People like Colin Powell, David Brooks and Christopher Buckley got a close-up look at the seething hatred, backwoods racism and demented paranoia of the Repig party's base and were completely freaked out by it.

The educated, elite Repig-identifiers don't give a shit whether someone is black, white or Klingon. To them, vulgar racism is déclassé and unacceptable. Palin let the barbarians in out of the wilderness, and now they stand in the Forum of Rome, picking their noses and shitting in the corners of the Parthenon. Dumber than bricks, these people have little cognizance of the century they live in or the complexities thereof. They are only a step or two up from apes.

The crazies are going to seize control of the Repig party and turn in into an openly fascist/nationalist/theocratic party that will get electorally stomped so badly and so often that the moderates will eventually re-take control. I spent a couple of hours trolling around FR today, and the FreeplePeeple are in an absolute dither, issuing fatwas and excommunicating moderates with the psychotic vigor and enthusiasm of medieval popes and antipopes damning each others' followers. They are in a complete meltdown, but they are incredibly pissed, numerous and will drive a stake through the heart of the Repig party. When the grownups take charge of the Repig party again, (and it's gonna take at least ten years) they will hopefully try to reinvent the centrist, moderate conservatism of Ike, Nixon and Ford; there ain't no mileage in trying to re-fight the Civil War or trying to repeal the entire 20th Century. A responsible, moderate conservative party would be a good thing for the country and for Democrats. A reasonable and sane opposition will help keep us on our toes.

The fundymentalpatients will eventually be consigned to the ash-heap of history. But getting them there is going to be a long-term process.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
25. Rising steadily, I would say.
I'm thinking Jindal will be the "new face" of the R party. They need to vastly expand their appeal to younger (under 45) voters and they know it. You'll see less emphasis on the bible, less holy roller talk and more of what they try to sell as "down-home common sense." There will be an increased emphasis on fiscal matters and I think they'll try to use the Obama presidency to promote the end of AA programs as a way of "moving forward." Problem is for them, if they do that, they'll have to admit that equal opportunity programs are finally starting to WORK.

I don't have any problem with down-home common sense, but their version always ends up with children of the poor going to bed hungry as payment for their parents "crimes" and government sanctioned discrimination based on what genre of adult consensual relationships people are inclined to.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Jindal IS a religious fundie nutbag...so he's not a good candidate for that role.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Really? Didn't know that. Does he wear it on his sleeve?
& campaign on it? I thought he was more ........... restrained ..... in that department.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. He tried to perform an exorcisim on his girlfriend in college. This kind of stuff comes out.
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FKA MNChimpH8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #25
50. Jindal may be competent as a governor,
but he is nuttier than a squirrel turd. He's strictly a flavor of the month and will self destruct. Moderates don't vote for amateur exorcists. Pawlenty is going to make some noise, but the hardcore base of lunatics that makes up the Repuke primary electorate is going to march Palin, or someone like her, off the plank into the Obamashark infested waters in 2012. Whoever it is will get crushed on an epic scale unless Obama is a lot dumber than he has shown himself to be for the last four years.
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
26. Stupid attracts stupid
The Republic Party has truly become the Stupid Party. And the biggest magnet that attracts stupid is religion.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
27. They are a con$i$tant $ource of ca$h.
Not going to happen. They'll just try to hide them a little better. The Dominionists got too cocky and thought America was ready for their brand of whack. Now that it's been rejected by the electorate they'll just candy coat it again.
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political_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
28. No matter how much they hold up Jindal as "the future", racism is going to keep the party together.
Edited on Mon Nov-17-08 11:03 PM by political_Dem
It's sad to say so, but the impeach Obama sites are an indication of this. The increase in membership of the supremacist sites are also evidence toward this end as well.

The retention of entitlement, privilege and social mobility based on the dominant culture is the new talking point now. Watch them trying to ingratiate themselves with the "Joe the Plumbers" and other mouth-breathers who willingly shouted that Mr. Obama was a "terrorist" and a "Muslim" without ever thinking why saying those things were wrong and reprehensible.

The GOP is going to tap into that market of hate and exploit it. What was seen at the rallies represents the tip of the iceberg.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
29. The only thing they got left...
The other ones are actually starting to drift TOWARDS the Democratic Party!!!

I kid you not...
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hulklogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
31. The religious right will divorce the Republicans first.
They're going to get sick of them eventually. Constitution Party here we come with Jesus!
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codjh9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. ... and if they do that, we'll be lookin' good, because the conservative vote will be split
between the Repubs and the Constitution (or Theocratic, or whatever) Party!
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Every Man A King Donating Member (534 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
32. They won't even divorce the Neocons
much less the fundies.
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codjh9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
33. I need to make a bumper sticker that says 'The Religious Wrong'. :^) n/t
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. it is more likely IMO that they end up with nothing but the religious right
Edited on Mon Nov-17-08 11:26 PM by Motown_Johnny
and everyone else moves into the Libertarian Party or comes over to us
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
38. It depends on if the GOP realizes that the religious right is what's killing them.
If not, they'll embrace them tighter and both will go down together.
If they do wake up, they'll kick out the fundies and move back to center-right.
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Essene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. some do... and they bailed this year on mccain/palin
a LOT of more fiscal minded conservatives threw the gauntlet down.

if the GOP remains focused on culture wars, they are dead... and many realize that. however, the social conservatives wont give up without a fight and frankly... they have a larger constituency at this point.

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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. it may come to the moderates and fiscal conservatives founding a new splinter party...
and letting the social conservatives flounder off in the wilderness.
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FKA MNChimpH8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #38
48. The smart ones know
Christie Whitman, Colin Powell, David Brooks, Christopher Buckley, Ken Adelman. These are not stupid people. They may not be right, but they are not dumb. The Reichwing Dominionist crazies are an anchor tied to the neck of the Republican party and they are in deep water with no ship in sight.
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abumbyanyothername Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
42. I vote 0%
it really is a case of "can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em."
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ShadowLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
45. They'd rather go exstinct the way of the federalists then do that
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
46. The Religious Right is already leaving the GOP.
Any political party is a Coalition. The Democratic Party is such a coalition and always has been. FDR's Coalition broke up in the 1960s and 1970s with the Southern Democrats taking the Religious right with them to the GOP (along with the racists). Labor bucklered during the same time period, but came back to the Democratic Party with Reagan (Through it took eight years of Reagan to convince many union members to return, but that helped Clinton get elected in 1992, under Bush jr Labor has returned ever more to the Democratic Party).

As to the GOP, it can be viewed as a coalition of the following:

1. Old Money Elite. This is Bush and his family and Friends. They believe since they have the money Government exists to protect that money and to help them make more money. They disliked the New Deal for it restricted they ability to exploit people and have been trying ever since to get back in power. Nixon showed them how, but Reagan sealed the new Coalition which is now breaking down. This group is the money behind the GOP. Without money you can NOT run a campaign so these are the real power houses of the GOP.

2. Southern Whigs. This group started out as that part of the Whig Party based in the American South. The American Whig Party took its name from the British Whig party. The British Whig party was known for its opposition the Crown, and the American Whig Party was know for its opposition to Andrew Jackson. It was a pro-business, pro large land owner party. Just prior to the Civil war, as the Republican party replaced the Whig Party as the Second party in the North, the Southern Whigs found themselves without a party, they would NOT join the GOP, do to its opposition to Slavery but could not stay alone. It thus joined the Democratic party in the South. It stayed with the Democratic party till the late 1930s when its natural tendency to be republicans overcame the regional hatred of the GOP do to the Civil War. The change was slow, most "Southern Whigs" stayed in the Democratic party till the 1970s, but the switch to the GOP increased in speed with Nixon and then Reagan. Do to the tradition of the South to keep electing anyone who is already in Federal office do to the seniority such re-election brings with it, the leadership of the Democratic party was heavily influenced by Southern Whigs till the 1970s. This has now switched to the GOP where seniority in the House and Senate favors these "Southern Whigs" who now lead the GOP.

3. Old Guard Republicans. These are NOT the money elite and unlike the Southern Whigs are throughout the rest of the Country. These are pro-business people, but not as rich as the Southern Whigs (Who themselves are not as rich as the Old Money Elites). These are an interconnected group of people, who through their connections find jobs and opportunities through the big opportunism are reserved to the Money Elite, the Money elite spread enough wealth to keep these people happy. These are the Lawyers, store owners, small businessmen, politicians, judges, bureaucrats and other people with connections that is the backbone of the GOP. Always a key part of the GOP, without it the GOP could not operate, and while the third most important part of the GOP (and in some ways #2) and a larger number of voters then the old money elite and Southern Whigs above, it is a smaller number of voters then each of the next three groups.

4. Religious Fundamentalists. Prior to the 1960s these were almost all in the Democratic party (and many are still in the Democratic party on the local level throughout the South). These are one of the three Vote Rich sections of the GOP (The other being pro-Gun/rural residents and Suburbanites). While Vote Rich, cash poor, thus are the votes needed by the GOP to win but not needed to fund a campaign. Progressive on Economic Issues, thus always a problem child for the GOP, but Conservatives on Social Issues. The GOP tries to keep them happy be emphasizing social issues, gay rights, abortion etc. and then avoiding the economic issues for when it comes to economic issues the Religious Fundamentalist believes it is the job of EVERYONE to help each other. Some Conservative Preachers have tried to change this by saying individual charity is what Jesus wanted for Charity through welfare is thief. Most Fundamentalist reject this argument but it is made to try to convince them to vote GOP. As long as the GOP could promise them to address the moral issues AND improve society by the GOP economic Program, reliable Votes for the GOP. The failure of the GOP to pass ANY meaningful restriction on Abortion and the over-use of Gay Rights as fear weapon WHILE the economic situation deteriorated drove them from the party. Many refused to vote for Obama, but did NOT vote for McCain either.

5. Pro-Gun Rural voters. Very important to the GOP, in the north the backbone of the GOP since the Civil War, in the South the Back bone of the "Solid South" till the 1960s (Where many, on the national level only, turned to the GOP, many are still Democrats on the state and local level). The Gop try get their vote by saying only the GOP can stop Gun Confiscation And help them with their rural economic problems. Like the Fundamentalist (Which often overlap with pro-gun rural voter group) the GOP try to keep them voting GOP but over the last few years the opposition of the GOP to improvements in Rural areas and the Democratic party statements that the Democratic party will NOT pass further gun Control laws, have neutralized these voters for the GOP. They want to hunt and fish, but they want the environment protected for if it is NOT protected where will they hunt and fish? The GOP support for bio-fuel is an attempt to show these voters that the GOP understood their economic problems, but so did the Democratic Party.

6. Suburbanite voters. During the post-WWII era till the dot.com bust of 2000 these were the most loyal GOP voters. The GOP kept them happy by saying the GOP wanted to cut taxes and then told them that the GOP claims to oppose abortion was just a ploy to get cotes, the GOP really does not mean it. Reagan played them like a master violinist, he emphasis tax cuts but also told them that Federal Services to THEM will not be affects (Reagan was going to balance the budget by ending the waste and Fraud in the Federal Government, which the suburbanites all knew was do to inner city politicians). The problem for the GOP is this group was the most hurt by the dot.com bubble and now the housing bubble. Furthermore Reagan's policy of switching from Collage Grants to Loans and hitting this group the hardest (Along with the GOP 1990s change in the Bankruptcy code that forbade discharge of student loans in Bankruptcy, and this group was further hurt by the changes in 2005 that further restricted bankruptcy).

7. Racist. Now most Racists before the 1960s were in the Democratic party, but as the South went GOP, southern blacks went Democratic (They had previously been GOP member). The Racists seems to follow the Southern Whig Leadership to the GOP and along with the Southern Whigs a solid part of the Southern Base for the GOP.

As you can see, the GOP has problems with three sections of the above seven part coalition (The Fundamentalist voter, the pro-gun rural voter and the Suburbanite voter), the hard part for the GOP is those three sections are the largest number of voters. Without all three groups SOLIDLY behind the GOP, the GOP can not win an election honestly (and with very weak support in all three sections the GOP can not even cheat they way into the White House). The GOP will try to keep them in, but I see all three slowly detaching from the GOP. I suspect the next eight years is going to be like the period 1932-1940 for the GOP. The Money elite will try to push its agenda. The Southern Whigs and old Guard Republicans will be used to do that. The Racists will be easy to join into the new coalition but the other three sections will want at least their economic concerns addressed. Tax cuts will NOT do it for any of those three groups, but that is what the Elite really want. This is what happened in the period between 1932 and 1936. The money elite believe since they had all the money they could defeat the reform efforts of FDR (I will ignore the attempt at a coup with General Butler, but with the elite nothing is impossible). Thus in 1936 the Old Guard Republicans were put in complete control of the GOP against FDR re-election. The GOP lost all by two states. By 1940 the party leadership had wised up and were no longer fighting to stop the New Deal (The 1940 GOP nominee was a former Democratic New Dealer who switched party do to opposition to FDR going for a third term more then any opposition to what FDR was doing). The reason he was picked was the leadership of the GOP had finally accepted the fact that the New Deal was to popular to undo, thus they went to minimize further Democratic Gains as oppose to reversing them. I see the GOP doing the same thing over the next eight years. Go even more conservative, see the GOP win some seats in the mid-term elections (almost always the case), take that as a sign the Country want them back and then in 2012 run a Conservative candidate (Someone to the RIGHT of McCain). Palin may be that candidate, she is to the right of McCain and hopefully she can bring with her some of the above three sets of voters, given what I suspect will be four hard years. The problem is Presidents do NOT get blamed for things the people believe is beyond their control, so I suspect in 2012 a even greater defeat for the GOP as the above three groups show they support for whatever policy Obama is doing. Whatever Obama does will be better then anything the GOP will be saying should be done. Something is better then nothing. The real question will be 2016. Will the American people prefer a Democratic Candidate or whatever Democratic-light candidate the GOP produces in that year (The Governor of Louisiana? Of Hindu-Indian background but a Roman Catholic, much more moderate then other GOP possibilities.

As to the Democratic Candidate in 2016, I see both Hillary Clinton and Biden being to old by that time (Hillary will be 69, which if she serves 8 years would make her 77 when the eight years are over). Obama is our first President who did NOT come of age during the Vietnam War (He was in Grade school at that time). We are looking at a new generation of Politician (Which is a big Switch, but a return to a normal pace of such switches, given the extended length of WWII vets, 1953-1993, Eisenhower to the end of Bush I's term, and the GOP ran a WWII Vet in 1996). Clinton was the first President who has NOT served in WWII, Bush jr was the Second, and both came of age during the Vietnam era (Through neither served and both made a special effort to avoid service). 40 years for the WWII generation (32 if you do not count Eisenhower) but only 16 for Vietnam. The Vietnam era was twice as long as the WWII era but produced 1/2 the Presidents. 16-20 years is more the norm for how long a generation can dominate a society, but major wars tend to produce long periods of Veterans in politics (WWI was an exception but then both Truman and Eisenhower served in WWI but then WWII was that much bigger). The Civil War produced a similar long line of Veterans (From Grant in 1868 till McKinley in 1901, through Cleveland had not served, but he was exempt for he was a DA at the time of the Civil War) as did the Revolution (Washington 1789 till Jackson whose term ended in 1836). Just a comment is an era ended in 1992, and type of era hopefully we will never see again for major wars like the Revolution, the Civil War and WWII also produced huge lost of life, injuries and miseries.
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FKA MNChimpH8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. An elegant and wonderful analysis
I doff my hat!
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. I think this is a really fine analysis, but I found it distracting to read at points.
due to the fact that you kept using the word "do" when "due" was the appropriate word. You did that a LOT! Other than that, well done.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
52. not for now, but eventually they might have too if the religious right
Edited on Tue Nov-18-08 01:44 AM by Douglas Carpenter
refuses to cooperate as a member of the coalition and keeps insisting on running the whole show and thus marginalize the Republican Party.

It has become clear that the religious right and their extremist allies are no longer content with the GOP nominating a staunch Reaganite, right-wing conservative. They are no longer content with a leadership or a presidential nominee who passes all their litmus tests. They now insist that the leadership and the presidential nominee must be a full-fledged - batshit CRAZY extremist nut.

As someone mentioned in the Wall Street Journal, William F. Buckley is no longer the intellectual leadership of the party. Sean Hannity is.

Of course, they imagine that this nonsense will sell with the white working class. What they fail to grasp as exemplified in their futile campaign to win Pennsylvania, is that the emphasis on social conservatism might sell among many working class people during periods of relative economic prosperity - but a discredited economic ideology will not sell among the vast majority of working class people who have have come by circumstances to see themselves as victims of their ideology.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
53. For these two groups to go their separate ways would require that at least
one of them demonstrate some integrity and accept the minority status it would have if they split.

And integrity is in damned short supply in both camps.


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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
54. They're caught in a "No Exit"-style vicious cycle.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
55. They CAN'T do it
The defeat of John McCain is proof. Without a candidate who plays to the religious zealots, the GOP cannot muster enough votes and enthusiasm to win.

The religious zealots are the ones talking divorce. No one is kicking THEM out.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
56. Joined at the Hip...two bodies ,,,one set of legs
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