Can Anyone Explain The Football Question Kroft Asked Obama Last Night?

[KittyWampus]

it made no sense to me.

Something about extra games?

[movonne]

1. I would like to know also....

[TygrBright]

2. Right now there is no "playoff" system for a national championship...

...among college football teams. There are bowl games, but no 'system' for selecting a national champion.

This annoys the hell outta college football fans like my esposo. Obama probably got the biggest living-room ovation of the evening out of his response to that question.

amusedly,
Bright

[SteppingRazor]

3. Long story short...

Right now, the college football national championship is decided by a complicated system called the Bowl Championship Series (BCS). Essentially all the college teams are ranked in two polls and by three computer systems. All of the resulting rankings are then combined into a weighted system to get the BCS ranking. At the end of the season and the various division championship games, whoever is ranked No. 1 and 2 in the BCS rankings plays for the national championship.

However, this system has been the target of widespread criticism, and a lot of people would prefer that college teams play a playoff series like the pros instead of going through all this ranking system.

[Median Democrat]

14. Big Conference Schools Don't Want To Give Up $$$

Yes, a playoff might add a total of two or three games as you have quaterfinals, then simi-finals, then the championship. However, Division II manages to pull it off without any real issues. The problem is that the bowls are really lucrative, and so the corporate sponsorship types insist upon maintaining the screwed up BCS system, which just generates controvers. Look at this year with a bunch of 1 loss teams that are arguably the best teams in the nation. If you need evidence that money rules colleges sports, the BCS system is a prime example.

[Renew Deal]

16. But there's no reason to ditch the bowls.

Everyone knows that only 1 or 2 games have an affect on the championship. So there's no reason to ditch the bowls.

[Median Democrat]

22. Its Not The Bowls, Its The Conferences...

For example, if no team is in the BCS, then the Rose Bowl gets the top Big Ten and Pac-10 team regardless of where they are ranked. Thus, the Pac-10 and Big-10 are assured of getting bowl game revenues. A playoff system threatens this revenue stream.

[SteppingRazor]

18. True, but that excuse has never held water for me.

After all, the bowls could simply become the playoffs. Just stagger out the bowls, so that, for example, the Independence, Fiesta, Sugar and Cotton Bowls are quarterfinals, the Orange and Rose are semifinals, and then there's the national championship. You could rotate which bowl games go to which heats, so that they all take turns in positions of importance.

[Median Democrat]

20. The Problem Is That Big Conferences Could Get Shut Out...

For example, if the Top 8 is dominated by only a few conferences, or worse, a non-power conference, then a conference could be shut out of the lucrative major Bowl games.

[Renew Deal]

24. How is that different than the current system?

I don't get it. The teams are mostly selected by the BCS system as it is. Currently, there are 10 BCS teams in 6 games. This system could lead to 8 teams in 7 games or even the same 10 teams in 6 games. I don't think it makes sense to make the quarterfinal and semifinal games "bowl games."

[SteppingRazor]

25. I guess that's true -- just look at this season.

The current Top 5 teams come entirely from the SEC and the Big 12, and those two conferences have dominated all year, with a few exceptions like Penn and USC.

Of course, the counter-argument there is that if your team isn't even good enough to get into the Top 10 and thus get into the playoff series, you shouldn't even be arguing the point.

[geckosfeet]

4. Ha ha. He was commenting on the non-sensical nature of college bowl

games to determine a national championship.

I was watching the end of the Steelers/49r's game before 60 minutes and saw the very first final 11 to 10 NFL score in history. It was dicey at the end as the Steelers picked up what looked to be a fumble and ran it in for a score. But it was ruled a forward pass and the ball dead - final score 11 to 10.

[taterguy]

10. You must not have been paying much attention to the game

The Steelers played the Chargers last night.

[geckosfeet]

37. Why yes, they did. The score was 11 to 10. I saw the last 60s. Your point is?

[taterguy]

38. My point is that there's already enough misinformation on the Intraweb

Without some ignorant doofus being too lazy to know the difference between the San Francisco 49ers and the San Diego Chargers. Both teams are from cities that begin with "San"

Close enough for government work I guess.

[geckosfeet]

43. Oh yes, that. Well,, west coast you know. No one really gives a rats tail.

[Fenris]

5. It was about whether there should be a college national championship.

There currently isn't one.

[SteppingRazor]

7. Yes, there is currently a college football national championship...

there's just no playoff to see who plays in it.

[KittyWampus]

11. the way you phrased that, it sounds like something out of a Kafka novel.

[SteppingRazor]

23. It is rather Kafka-esque.

There have been instances in previous years that some fans still seethe at -- just ask an LSU Tigers fan about the 2003 national champion USC Trojans.


For more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCS_controversies
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football_playoff_debate

[rudy23]

28. You mean 2003 BCS runner up, USC? nt

[SteppingRazor]

33. Ahhhh.... and now that I've set the fire, I'll just kick back and watch it burn.

:evilgrin:

[sandnsea]

6. College football playoffs?

There isn't a playoff system now, the press votes on the best team, iirc. Obama is proposing playoffs, which would add a few extra weeks to the season, but could be made up by knocking a game or two out of pre-season or something.

Is that what you mean?

[KittyWampus]

9. yes, being unfamiliar with College Football, it was Greek to me.

[Avalux]

8. It was about a playoff system for college football.

As the BCS is set up now, we can end up with several teams either undefeated or w/only a loss (essentially tied) but only two teams get to play for the national championship and the rest lose out.

Obama has proposed taking the top 8 teams, having a mini-playoff series that would add 3 additional games to the season.

I think it's a great idea.

[Renew Deal]

27. It would actually only add 2 games

Because the final week is already scheduled.

[Avalux]

36. Ah - OK. Obama said 3 games in the interview....

but I can see how it would work out to 2. Everyone has a bye week too - so it wouldn't really prolong the season. :hi:

[ieoeja]

12. What was the question?

I just checked the transcript and couldn't find "football" anywhere (except for a link at the bottom of each page).

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/16/60minutes/main4607908.shtml?source=RSSattr=Politics_4607908


I would guess it had something to do with the nuclear launch codes. But without context I have no basis for making that guess.

[KittyWampus]

21. Here! You missed the second part of the transcript, you have to click link at bottom right of page

Kroft: We get along fine. I have one last question. As president of the United States, what can you do, or what do you plan to do, about getting a college football playoff for the national championship?

Mr. Obama: This is important. Look, excuse me for a second.

Michelle Obama: Please. Don't mind me.

Mr. Obama: I think any sensible person would say that if you've got a bunch of teams who play throughout the season, and many of them have one loss or two losses, there's no clear decisive winner that we should be creating a playoff system.

Eight teams. That would be three rounds, to determine a national champion. It would it would add three extra weeks to the season. You could trim back on the regular season. I don't know any serious fan of college football who has disagreed with me on this. So, I'm gonna throw my weight around a little bit. I think it's the right thing to do.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

34. Obama will be ranked as the best president in American history

if he can get this done as far as I am concerned.

[Renew Deal]

13. College football ranks its teams using polls of writers and a computer calculation

The top two teams after all of these calculations play in a championship game. But the system is completely unfair. When a team wins, they go up or stay the same in the poll. If they lose, they go down. So if team loses early and wins their last x number of games, they are peaking at the end. Now if another team loses a game near the end, they drop. So if two teams are 9-1 and one of them lost in the last two weeks, chances are they will drop. The team that lost later will probably be ranked lower than the team that lost earlier. But it many cases, they are not the worse team.

Besides all of that, teams don't all play each other. So some teams have easier paths to the championship game than others. The BCS system and polls try to account for that, but they can't. Also, just because a team lost 1-2 games doesn't mean that they are worse than a team that was undefeated.

This all creates a mess at the end of the season. The top two teams in the computer system are sent to the championship game.

A better system is to maintain the computer and/or ranking system and set up a playoff. The best team will certainly be somewhere in the top 8. It's the only truly fair way to choose a national champion.

[KittyWampus]

17. sorry Bleachers, I responded to you by mistake with part of transcript.

:blush:

[Renew Deal]

26. That's OK

I was a little confused about that. :D

[SteppingRazor]

31. It's true that some teams don't play each other, but I don't think that matters...

the Big 12 and the SEC are without a doubt the toughest conferences in the NCAA, and yet teams from those conferences fill the Top 25. So, while those teams have a tougher road to get to No. 1, they still do it and then some.

Hell, I could see the opposite being a problem, if playoffs were structured on a per-conference basis. Can you imagine some Big East sucker trying to play Alabama or Texas? Brutal.

But all that's really just devil's advocacy. I'm as big a proponent of a college football playoff series as the next guy.

[rufus dog]

54. I don't agree with the Top Eight approach

Teams like Utah and Boise State would still be shut out this year.

Remember Oklahoma got their asses whooped in a Big 12 Championship game but still went to the title game to get their ass whooped again. Why, because they were Oklahoma.

Think about NCAA Basketball, Villanova and the 97 (?) Arizona Championship Teams never would have made it to the Tourney if only eight teams were picked. (I don't believe NC State was a top ten team prior to knocking off Georgetown)

If you cut one meaningless regular season game and invite 32 teams then you have it covered. Teams below twenty are likely in for an early exit but hey there will be some upsets of top 10 teams and that will be great for some of the smaller 'non majors.' I also thing it will help keep recruits at home increasing competition across the board. If Utah, Boise State, New Mexico, Central Michigan, Central Florida, start making it to the big dance then recruits will be tempted to go there rather than becoming a back up at USC, Ohio State, Texas, and so on.

[WI_DEM]

15. it was simply a tongue in cheek question about whether Obama would favor a college football

playoff schedule.

[nyc 4 Biden]

19. A playoff system is desperately needed.

Look how much more exciting the NCAA basketball playoffs are.

[Upton]

29. "I liken the BCS to a bad disease, like cancer"

Oregon coach Mike Bellotti a few years back, when his Oregon team was deprived of playing in the BCS Championship game despite being ranked #2 in the polls.

Obama is absolutely right...we need a playoff system.

[nichomachus]

30. Dudes, seriously

We're involved in two wars that are lingering beyond imagination. We're headed to the worst economic mess since 1929. The country is facing massive unemployment. The treasury is empty -- and the thieves are still hauling money out the back door. Our food supply is in danger. Prices are rising faster than the space shuttle.

Who the hell really gives a crap about minor league professional football (which is what college football really is).

[KittyWampus]

32. because to dwell exclusively on the most troubling aspects of our political reality

would be horribly depressing. Diversions are fun and healthy. It helps restore perspective.

Sort of an intellectual palette cleanser.

[Lerkfish]

35. I don't personally care, but it sure made Obama look like mr. everyone, which is a GOOD thing

trust me.

[FarCenter]

39. College varsity sports is a waste of educational resources -- advanced countries don't have them

[MadBadger]

40. Thanks

:eyes:

[a la izquierda]

41. Nope, not at all schools it isn't.

Do a little investigating before you broadbrush generalize everything.

I'm getting my PhD at a university with a phenomenal education AND athletic program and, um, guess what? Students don't pay for the sports, they pay for themselves.
Our football team is number 5 right now, and I have never paid a dime towards it.
And you know something else, it's good diversion for people who work their butts off all week.

[happyslug]

52. Accountants will argue with you on that point

Basically, HOW collages separate the cost of Collage and the Cost of their Sports program is the center of the dispute. With at least one observer commenting that he doubts ANY collage sports program had really ever made money. For a detail analysis see the following:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-3t7p6tXxakC&pg=PA230&lpg=PA230&dq=College+sports+costs&source=web&ots=seq3LJo4HG&sig=-NHaRnzA-qxkZNdDJHLfuClYL9M&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA231,M1

In 2006, when the NCAA went yo a 12 game schedule, the profit went to the larger schools, the smaller schools received some money to offset their losses but the big winners were the larger schools:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/23/sports/ncaafootball/23college.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2

Another reference to the fact that Collage Football is the BIG money generator, with male basketball a distant second when it comes to revenue. The other sports are all money losers:
http://ewainchicago.blogspot.com/2008/04/did-you-know-that-only-half-dozen.html

Effectively, if you are in a Collage with a football team consistently in the top 20, your football program makes money (ignoring various cross-subsidies such as the football stadium paid by general collage funds, student-athletes taking special classes, having Tudors to help them and ignoring the fact that over 60% of such Student-athletes do NOT graduate within six years of entering collage, over 50% never graduate, that high rate of failure is a "cost" the the collage in the form of being students who never benefited from their days in collage except as minor league football players).

[a la izquierda]

55. Okay, perhaps at some universities...

but not at OU.
When I was an undergrad, at a university that will remain nameless, educational programs suffered under the weight of a terrible football program and a brandy-new stadium.

Fast-forward to the university that I'm at now...number 1 in number of national merit scholars for a state university, number 5 football team in the nation, and our women's bball team will be in the top 10. Yes, the athletes that need them have tutors (but not all of them, because not all of 'em need 'em). Our quarterback, mentioned as a Heisman candidate, has been an Academic All American and had a 4.0 his first two years (don't know about this year).

I hate the "all college athletes are dumb" meme. I was one of them too.

But I do understand your point, so I'm just pointing out the case at the university I attend. And I won't be a spelling nazi. ;)

[happyslug]

56. But the pressure such a program builds lead to more and more cash for that program

That is why the University of Chicago dropped out of the Big ten in 1946, the price was to high (and I point out the University of Chicago was where the Atomic bomb research took place). That is the problem with Division I Football, even in the 1930s Football was viewed as to "important" not to spend money on, and as long as that is the case, Division I Schools will keep throwing money into the problem and sooner or later the program will eat up more money then it is generating. Right now the top 20 teams of Division I football are making money, the rest of Division I football is losing money (and this is assuming proper accounting is being used to assign costs to area that generate those costs, something not only I but many people have suspension on).

For more on the big Ten see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ten_Conference

At least one researcher points out that the pull of football for resources of the University explains the expansion of the research arm of such University, an expansion that is HURTING the undergraduate part of those schools and as research arms, still distant second tier from the top tier of the Ivy League Schools:
http://books.google.com/books?id=A4sfiztxhIoC&dq=beer+and+circus&pg=PP1&ots=Ts_mUs_I4L&sig=hE97tHld3mI94zs5fh3f069Phz8&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-30,GGLD:en&q=beer+and+circus&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail

Rot starts at the bottom not the top, and rot has set in big time among the non top 20 football teams, it will spread to the top 20, it is just a matter of time (and several commentators have said it already has).

[Upton]

42. I bet you're fun at parties

[Recursion]

44. NCAA football has something kind of like the Electoral College

There's a system to determine the champion that can lead to some very counterintuitive results that piss a lot of people off.

Like the electoral college, there's a more or less sensible historical reason it's there, but it's kind of getting time for it to go.

[CK_John]

45. Throwing a bone to the gambling industry. n/t

[rufus dog]

46. The current system is basically un American

Prestige teams are rewarded based upon votes rather than winning on the field. So before all of you Michigan, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, Alabama, Ohio State fans go off let me explain.

A team like Utah, Boise State, or even any Pac 10 team (with the POSSIBLE exception of USC) can't lose one game. The same holds true for Big 10 teams except for Michigan and Ohio State. Non BCS Conference School teams go undefeated and do not have a chance to win a National Championship.

The best solution I have seen is the following:

Eliminate the cream puff first home game of the season. Most major teams play a smaller, weaker team at home the first week. The major team gets a victory and fills the stadium. Very rarely does anything spectacular happen in these games, last year Appalachian State beat Michigan, but other than that you usually get a blow out.

The Majors won't like losing the extra home sell out but here is what can be done. Take the top 32 teams at the end of the one game shortened regular season. The top 16 teams get to play the first playoff game at home, so number 1 plays 32, 2 plays 31 and so on. The neat part of this is you give the smaller conferences a chance at the big boys.
These games would be played this weekend.

You would have team like Central Michigan, Western Michigan (currently in the top 32) going to play Florida and Texas. You would also have some great battles between teams ranked between 8 and 24.

For round two you take eight of the lower tier current bowls and have sub regional match ups. So a Sun Bowl which currently takes a third place Pac 10 team against a fourth place Big 12 team would get something like Texas Vs Missouri or the Emerald Bowl in SF which currently gets a shitty pac 10 team against another shitty team (seriously, the teams are usually 6 wins and 6 losses) would get USC VS Boise State (a total of one loss between them)
These games could be played the first week in December

Round three could utilize most of the New Years Day Bowls and would basically be regional finals. (The big bowls could rotate for playoffs, So four bowl games would be played on New Years Day or the second.

You then need to have two more games to crown a champion. The could either use the existing bowls or play it a different neutral site. So if the Rose Bowl refused to move the game then they could always have a New Years Day slot. I would suggest the Rose, Fiesta, Orange, Sugar, Cotton (in the New Texas Stadium) along with something in an Upper Midwest Dome be used for Rounds three and four with the Final being rotated or open to bid like the Super Bowl.

[Blu Dahlia]

47. a "man" question. Notice he said "excuse me" to Michelle

before the two men engaged in irrelevant sports talk.

[LisaM]

48. There used to be this great system where 28 schools would walk away happy

and college bowl season was a wonderful, exciting time.

There are those who want to take that away (they've already ruined a fun, traditional system) and make it a winner-take all deal.

It's part of our win-at-all-costs mentality. We truly used to have a great system that was fun for everyone but a few soreheads.

[GreenInNC]

49. But there is a college football playoff system......

and it works quite nicely. Divisions 1-AA, 2 and 3 all use the playoff system. One of my alma mater's is the three time defending 1-AA champion - Appalachian State University in Boone, NC.

[BlooInBloo]

50. College football has no playoff system to determine the champion. Obama would like one.

[SoxFan]

51. This begs a question

Obama received his undergrad degree from a school with a cosmically bad football program (Columbia). he received his law degree from a school that is a good team in a crappy 1-AA conference (Harvard; the Ivy League routinely gets pounded by Colonial Athletic Association teams in nonconference play). he teaches at a university that hasn't played football in decades.

So who does he root for on Saturday?

Illinois?

Hawaii?

Northwestern?

I'd love to know the answer!

[Condem]

53. Go on over to the DU sports forum, crying

Ask those good folks. They'll answer it in a polite, easy-to-read & concise fashion. Best wishes!