BREAKING: Lieberman pushes for Obama -Ayers Connection Probe.

[RagAss]

That's what we'll be hearing in three fucking months !

[WeDidIt]

1. That'll be the least of his investigations

HE has only begun to gain his revenge against the Democrats.

[opihimoimoi]

9. They should bring back FLOGGING with the Cat O Nine Tails

String the SOB up and Flog him 4754675868979 Lashes....

or...bury him up to his neck and STONE him as in the BIBLE STYLE....Punish the SOB TRAITOR with PAIN....

[cali]

11. Don't know jackshit about how a Senate Committee works, do you?

just pathetic to see people like you waving their ignorance around.

[RagAss]

23. Well...at least he knows his flogging ...LOL

[marylanddem]

2. those two scumbags deserve each other SO much.

[loyalkydem]

3. and at that point

I expect the Dems to expel his ass from his post

[marylanddem]

5. nah - he can do whatever the hell he wants. they're his bitches.

[WeDidIt]

14. No can do

Chairmanships last the full two years.

He cannot be stripped of his gavel now.

[Eric J in MN]

66. Between 40 Republican votes to filibuster such a move and his own vote...

...that would make 41 votes for a succesful filibuster of removing him.

[Chulanowa]

4. Congratulations Senate dems!

You just shoved a fucking water moccasin into your trousers. Don't bitch when it bites your balls, you myopic turtlefuckers.

[dmallind]

7. Strangely, I agree with this statement

and even more with the way it's worded.

[marylanddem]

12. yep. a water moccasin in the trousers about sums it up!

[RagAss]

68. LOL !

[harun]

63. That's one post I wish I could recommend (n/t)

[truedelphi]

28. But could you brighten yr post with some SCATHING invective??

:toast:

[Chulanowa]

33. What? Abrading invective ain't good enough for ya?

[MNDemNY]

6. But, but, we must be nice to our detractors, or they won't play with us.

So let's fold some more, after all it's not as if we won an election or anything. The Democrats on the hill must somehow, retrieve their balls from whom ever it is that is holding them.

[cali]

8. If you think that's actually going to happen, you're pig ignorant

about how a Senate Committee works.

[LynneSin]

17. OMG so seriously

This is a joke - people here are dumb enough to think that just because Lieberman has his chair position that he can go hog wild crazy on Obama like something stupid with Ayers or believe it or not - impeaching Obama. You think Reid would let him in that position if Lieberman was going to go that crazy.

I think we need to talk ourselves off the perch and get a grip on reality. Obama, NOT the senate dems, gave Lieberman a break - the dems were doing what Obama wanted them to do. This is a new DC where we are to learn to place nicely with others and break this bullshit of partisan politics. Obama has preached that all campaign season and the first time he had a situation of dealing with partisan politics (ie dealing with Lieberman) Obama chose the high road and kept that promise.

[RagAss]

21. He can submit the Agenda...that's a defacto probe right there !

[LynneSin]

24. That you are correct

and then the rest of the democrats can shoot him down ESPECIALLY since our majority should guarantee a greater than +1 Senator difference in each committee. Go back and read about Jim Jeffords and what they did to him - he was a committee chair and the republicans basically bypassed him for everything and went to Greggs instead.

I'm not saying that the democrats are doing that now, I'm just saying that Lieberman does not have all the free reign we'd like to claim that he has

[Occam Bandage]

10. Bet you $20 that will not happen.

I'm serious.

[LynneSin]

13. You think because he's Chairman he has free reign over that committee....

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Even Jeffords learned the hard way when Republicans started going to Gregg for anything they wanted done in committee.

[cali]

16. Absolutely correct. The repukes effectively stripped Jeffords

of any power when he chaired Health.

[LynneSin]

18. I don't think the democrats are going to go that far

but I don't think they're going to let Lieberman get that far either. I think anything that Lieberman does that could oppose the democratic agenda when it comes to that committee will be considered and the guy in line for the position behind Joe is Daniel Inouye of Hawaii.

They did the right thing and honestly, this might be a major help when we have the new appointments for Stevens & Ginsberg coming up real soon.

[JuniperLea]

20. Indeed...

I think this was Obama turning the other cheek, and letting it be known he's forgiven horrible actions... for the last time... there are no more cheeks to turn.

[LynneSin]

25. It was Obama keeping one of his campaign promises of bring civility back to DC

and ending this partisan politics. Sure, there is a long way for us to go until we achieve that but it was a nice start.

[JuniperLea]

27. Civility = Change

One of the many definitions of "Change" and I'm all for it. What we've been doing hasn't worked so well in a very long time.

I'm in.

[Dr Fate]

34. Dont you mean "What LIEBERMAN has been doing hasn't worked so well in a very long time."

Who is the "we" here- I assume you mean people like Lieberman, McCain and Bush- right?

[LynneSin]

36. What has been happening in DC has not been working for a long time

Lieberman is just a small part of that problem.

[Dr Fate]

43. People like Lieberman have been the MAIN part of the problem- not the good people opposing him.

Let's make sure that part is totally clear.

[No Elephants]

32. Obama said that Lieberman was Senate business and he was not going to get involved. I believe him.

[Dr Fate]

37. The spin is to make out like Obama specifically wanted Joe to keep his chair.

When all we really know is that Obama said he wanted Joe to remain in the caucus- something many of us agree with.

Pro-Lieberman, anti-spine Duers are trying to make this out to be totally Obama's call.

I'm not sure I buy it either.

[onenote]

44. what obama reportedly said is that he didn't bear any grudges.

Since the principal argument being made for ousting lieberman from his chair was his behavior during the campaign (not his voting record or anything else he's done in the Senate), an indication by Obama that he didn't bear a grudge against lieberman for that behavior was tantamount to saying that he saw no need to change the status quo.

[Dr Fate]

45. Neither do I. The Lieberman issue is about COMPETENCE, not grudges.

As tot he major issues, no pro-Lieberman DUers seem to want to talk about whether he did a good job as committee chair and Senator for the past 2 or 3 years...

[onenote]

48. I'm certainly not going to claim that he's any great shakes as chairman

but you're dreaming if you think the Democratic caucus is going to start shuffling and reshuffling committee chairs based on who they think is doing a good job.

And as I've pointed out, the Homeland Security/Governmental Affairs Commitee, in the pantheon of Senate Committees, ranks closer to the bottom than to the top of the heap. Members with seniority who could demand plum positions don't clamor for that committee. In fact, of the eight Democrats serving on that Committee (not counting Lieberman) only two are in the top half of the caucus in terms of seniority. The Democrats on the Committee include McCaskill and Tester, two of the least senior Democrats in the Senate. And its pretty much the same with the repubs. When the repubs controlled the senate, the chairman is susan collins, one of the repubs who is least loyal to her party and someone who is in the bottom half of her own caucus in terms of seniority. (The other repubs on the committee include 3 of the bottom fifteen of the repub caucus in terms of seniority: sununu, coleman and coburn.)

[Dr Fate]

50. Are you arguing that qualifications and competence are never considered...

...when giving out top positions?

Or are you arguing that it shouldnt be considered, at least in this case?

[onenote]

56. I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be considered but rather acknowledging that they rarely if ever

are the deciding factor. The principal determining factors are seniority and, often, interest in the subject matter. For example, the Chairman of the Agriculture Committee is going to be from a rural state with a large farming sector. Other factors will influence other committee assignments. Its never been a merit based system. Not saying that's a good thing; just pointing out how it works in practice. And changing the way the Senate works in practice is insanely hard to do since it views tradition as something not lightly tampered with.

[Dr Fate]

58. In that case, Lieberman certainly should not be retaining the chair.

Lieberman arguably should have ZERO DEM seniority (He entered the Senate in 2006 as a conservative, 3rd party member, not a DEM) and has issues of incompetence as far as his interest in the subject matter.

You offer up some interesting information, but we still come out with the conclusion that Lieberman has no business being commitee chair.

In any event, I'm still unconvinced of this set-in-stone "tradition" that unqualified Senators from outside the winning party MUST be given top positions no matter what.

[noiretextatique]

57. why would lieberman stay in the democratic caucus

if he didn't keep the gavel? how would remaining in the caucus benefit lieberman?

[Dr Fate]

60. I assumed that his CT constituents expected him to caucus with DEMS, as he promised in 2006.

I also assumed that if he started strutting around the Senate like an Obama-obstructing Republican, BLUE New England would have his ass on a platter come next election.

I guess I'm one of the few DUers who never saw "I'm going to vote with the Republcans if you dont give me what I want" as a legitimate card for Joe to play.

In sum, Due to the Blueness of CT & New England, I think Lieberman would have been forced to vote with DEMS & Obama no matter what his committe standing...Too late for that to matter now, I guess...

[noiretextatique]

61. thanks for the answer

that makes sense.

[Dr Fate]

64. If anything, wouldnt you rather Liberals be mad at the usual spineless DEMS than be mad at Obama?

I think the pro-Lieberman DEMS are doing their best to make this look like Obama's choosen outcome- so that they can paint dissenting DEMS as anti-Obama & anti-Change.

In any event, I'm sure Obama will say he is fine with whatever the Senate wants, for better or for worse...But that doesnt mean that letting Joe keep his chair was somehow engineered by Obama....

[noiretextatique]

62. thanks for the answer

i don't think his constiuents are happy about him campaigning for mccain either. it seems like this is lieberman's last chance to redeem himself.

[ProSense]

38. So why didn't the Dems do anything about him not holding hearings?

This is a silly excuse. If this was the case, the Dems who wanted to shut down the BCCI investigations could have.

This assumes that if Leahy wants to investigate he has to play nice with Dems.

[TheCowsCameHome]

15. Caption: "This happens to everyone after I kiss their cheek"

[JuniperLea]

19. Good God! Have they STOPPED putting something in our water today or what?

I've never seen so much hysteria over nothing but ignorance and the inability to see the bigger picture in all my born days.

[cali]

22. heh. the wild flailing is pretty pronounced today

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

26. Is this where the wheat and the chaff are separated?

This reminds me of the old trick test in elementary school on how to follow directions. The directions read: Please read the entire test before answering any questions... followed by a list of outlandish things to say and do... and the last directive is, now put your pencil down and do not follow any of the other directions.


:hi:

[Dr Fate]

31. So you think Lieberman has done a good job? Do tell. n/t

n/t

[cali]

40. putting words in my mouth is moran stuff.

do try and read. And no, I'm not going to go into my despising lieberman bonafides. Anyone with half a fucking brain cell would know I wasn't in any way shape or form defending lieberman.

god I hate stupid.

[Dr Fate]

46. Cool-So you think he has done a terrible job- then why do you want him as committee chair?

Makes no sense.

So anyone who wants to argue that making excuses for Lieberman is lame is now "stupid" and deserving of "hate"? Good to know.

I just wanted to make it clear that no one is making excuses for Lieberman b/c they actually think he is doing a good job, or that this is really a good idea.

The excuses are for some other purpose- DEM unity, I guess.

Sorry, but if you agree that Lieberman should keep his chair then you are indeed defending Lieberman- I dont see how you could frame it any other way.

I wont call you stupid or say I hate you either way.

[cali]

49. Oh for fuck's sake. I don't want him as committee chair. I'm proud

as hell of my Senators, Bernie and Pat. I accept that he is committee chair- whether I like it or not. And I know enough about how the Senate works to know that as chair, he really can't go off on a tangent investigating Obama.

[Dr Fate]

51. Thanks- If you had posted that instead of the bullying name calling...

...I would have actually found some agreement with you.

I also know that Lieberman will never investigate Ayers, etc-what I dont like is the cutesy way you guys were making fun of anti-Lieberman DUers- as if they are being totally irrational or something...


Peace

[cali]

54. sorry, you brought this on yourself by putting words in my mouth that

I never even came close to saying. Don't do it and you won't get shit from me. Play cutsie with shit like that and I'll blast you.

[Dr Fate]

55. Dont give yourself too much credit- bullying & name calling isnt "blasting"...

...it's an attempt to shut people up-and it didnt work either. I kept coming right back atcha.

In other words- no need to apologize- I can take it.

I wasnt trying to put words in your mouth- I was getting you to admit that leaving Lieberman in his chair position is a terrible idea as far as his competence goes.

I meant it to be a rhetorical question- not to put words in your mouth.

I wanted to show that people are defending this even though they claim that Lieberman is unqualified. Readers can draw their own conclusions from there.

We can agree to disagree- and I like it better when we agree, but the tough guy stuff wont work with me.

Again, Peace.

[Dr Fate]

30. So you think Lieberman has done a good job? Do tell. n/t

n/t

[JuniperLea]

35. I chose not to respond to you on this in another thread...

After I tried to reason with you, I've decided it's not worth the effort because you aren't grasping the base issue here.

And yet you felt the need to follow me to another thread and ask again... this is against the rules. Please stop. I don't care to discuss this with you further and this is my last reply to you.

I don't use ignore... live and learn from fools and from sages, I always say.

I do, however, hide threads.

[Dr Fate]

42. Wrong- you are the one not grasping the base issue- which is COMPETENCE.

You are having a little fun here in this thread derriding other Duers for opposing Lieberman, but you cant tell us why he is the most competent DEM to head this committee.

LOL! I'm not following you- dont flatter yourself. Obviously we are both posting in threads about Lieberman...The difference is you are making every effort to defend him, while I'm questioning his competence.

Now go off and keep defending Lieberman, even though you cant tell us anything about his competence or qualifications.

[cali]

41. driveling malicious moran shit. good, job, genius.

[Dr Fate]

47. Cool-So you think he has done a terrible job- then why do you want him as committee chair?

For someone who has done such a shitty job, why do you feel the need to call me names in his defense?

I dont hate you nor do I feel the need to call you names- I just wish you didnt feel the need to make excuses or attack long-time Duers over someone who has done a really shitty job...

[Overseas]

29. Naaah. We'd just send him to go ask the Annenbergs.

The big Republican funders, the Annenbergs, can explain why they donated millions to Ayers' projects, and whether any Republican candidates have returned the donations the Annenbergs gave them.

[JuniperLea]

39. I never understood why more wasn't made of this...

I guess it's that Obama didn't want to go tit for tat... and this would really be in the same vein as The Keating Five.

[Overseas]

65. I didn't want Obama to hit that angle, if we had a free press, the reporters would have

brought up this point with every Republican who mentioned the Ayers thing.

A really free press might have had an interview with the Annenbergs on when the issue was first raised. "Why does your family foundation fund this unrepentant terrorist?" They could have asked.

There's a list of Republicans that got donations from the Annenbergs.


Lenore Annenberg donated to McCain and Specter in 2008, among others... http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/leonore-annenberg.asp?cycle=08

And in 2006 they gave a lot to the RNC... http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/leonore-annenberg.asp?cycle=06

[JuniperLea]

67. A free press might be a good thing...

We should look into that again;)

[zulchzulu]

52. Lieberman is a pawn surrounded by a couple rooks

He can make a move if he wants...

I'm convinced that a deal was made where Lieberman just had to admit he made mistakes in his 2008 Suckfest for McBlinky and to sit there and let Obama own his scrawny ass.

I hope anyway...

[Dr Fate]

53. You are the only DUer who is framing this in the best possible light, in my opinion.

"I'm convinced that a deal was made where Lieberman just had to admit he made mistakes in his 2008 Suckfest for McBlinky and to sit there and let Obama own his scrawny ass."

I hope so too.

[noiretextatique]

59. i see it that way too

obama and the dem caucus own lieberman's sorry ass now.