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Minn. Senate race could hinge on scanning machine mistakes: A computer geek look at things

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Doughboy71 Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 11:33 AM
Original message
Minn. Senate race could hinge on scanning machine mistakes: A computer geek look at things


Fears of e-voting glitches in the November election are still not over. The outcome of the Minnesota Senate race--which could give the Democrats a firmer grasp on power in Washington--may depend on whether scanning machines made mistakes two weeks ago when tabulating ballots.

Republican Sen. Norm Coleman holds a lead of only about 200 votes over his main opponent, Democrat Al Franken, but a hand recount that begins Wednesday could show that a few thousand votes were mistakenly rejected.

With Coleman's lead under a margin of 0.5 percent of the more than 2.9 million votes cast in the Minnesota senate race on November 4, the state automatically begins a hand recount of every ballot.

Minnesota used optical scanning machines to read paper ballots, and enough ballots could have been mistakenly rejected by the machines to alter the outcome of the race, said Beth Fraser, director of governmental affairs for the Minnesota secretary of state's office. The office estimates that as many as two votes for every 1,000 cast--or as many as 6,000--may have been mistakenly rejected.

The optical scanners would have rejected ballots that were not filled out correctly--for instance, if a voter circled a candidate's name rather than filling in the bubble next to the name, Fraser said. However, Minnesota law mandates that any vote in which the voter's intention is clear must be counted. In other words, the law is more liberal than the machines, and a manual recount could permit votes to be counted that a machine would reject.

"We have a pretty clear statute of what counts as a vote," Fraser said.

Starting Wednesday, election officials in 106 locations throughout the state will start sorting through ballots, paying particular attention to those that were rejected to decide whether they should be counted.

"It's kind of a consensus process," Fraser said.

Representatives for both of the two major candidates will be at every table, she said, and they are free to challenge the election officials' judgment. If anyone is left unsatisfied about the status of a vote, it will be put aside for the state canvassing board to review.

Officials aim to finish the hand recount by December 5. The state canvassing board--which is chaired by Secretary of State Mark Ritchie and includes Minnesota Chief Justice Eric Magnuson, Associate Justice G. Barry Anderson, and District Judges Kathleen Gearin and Edward Cleary--will reconvene on December 16 with the goal of getting in the final results by December 19.

While the optical scanning machines may have rejected some crucial votes, Fraser said the machines are the best option for counting votes.

"It speeds up the counting but gives us the paper ballots to count on, so the results are fully auditable," she said.

Tallying mistakenly rejected votes is unlikely to clear the controversy surrounding the recount, however. Franken's campaign filed a lawsuit on November 13 requesting that the names of voters who cast invalidated absentee ballots be made public, so those ballots can be reviewed by the canvassing board as well. A hearing on the case is set for Wednesday morning, after the recount starts.

Other incidents have called into question some of the results, such as the admission from the Minneapolis director of elections that she accidentally left 32 absentee ballots in her car. Additionally, Coleman has called into question the neutrality of Secretary of State Ritchie, who is a Democrat.


I think the author may have a slight left lean to her reporting because she continues the myth the 32 ballots were left in someones car. I'm the I.T. geek who happens to work in a law firm and when I forwarded the names of the judges who are overseeing the recount to the Republican lawyers in the office, their response was you couldn't get much better than that. Last night on Hannity and Colms (sic) they interview Batshit Crazy Bachman about the recount and SH and MB kept up the myth of the car ballots as well until Colms broke in and reminded them even Coleman's own lawyer has admitted that never happened.

It is real funny how the Republicans are worried and have admitted it, how the MN race is going to be stolen just like the 2000 Presidential race in Florida.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. At least there are ballots to be examined by which intent may be determined.
Here in WI we also use optical scan with a paper ballot, but we connect the lines rather than fill in an oval. It sounds very simple and straightforward, but never underestimate people's ability to follow directions. You could show each voter a video of how to vote and some would still get it wrong.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. when you sign in to vote, maybe there should be a Mickey/Donald sample ballot people are required to
to fill out.


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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. After we sign in,
at the table where you pick up your ballot, there is an election judge demonstrating how to fill in the circles - people still get it wrong. I think people pay as much attention to the judge doint the demonstration as they do the flight attendent showing you how to use the oxygen mask.
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riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Billions of dollars later
...we arrive where we were in 2000: Voter-marked paper ballots that can be hand-counted when required. Your tax dollars at work, eh?

Thank the dog that MN isn't a DRE state, at least.
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wakemeupwhenitsover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hi Doughboy71,
Please be aware that DU copyright rules require that excerpts of copyrighted material be limited to four paragraphs and must include a link to the original source.

best,
wakemeupwhenitsover
DU Mod
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. Did you man 'right' lean, instead of 'left' lean?

In the 2nd to last paragraph?

"I think the author may have a slight left lean to her reporting because she continues the myth the 32 ballots were left in someones car."

As written, that doesn't make much sense to me. :shrug:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. Freepazoids think the Democrats are cheating.
Not likely, but it's possible. Democrats claimed the Republicans cheated (and the moment the "R" word gets said, the "R"-words, divert the subject or clam up the way they should have done before claiming the Democrats cheated, what with having no evidence and all but it's all good...)
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riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Freepazoids are waaaaay wack
To them, if a Dem concedes and crawls away, weeping, it was a fair election. Otherwise, it was fraud, because everyone knows that Reeps deserve to win all races at all times in all locales.

Chucklefucks.
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Alter Ego Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. Can't they just play rock, paper, scissors for it?
Why do I have the feeling this race will drag on past Christmas?
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