Who are the true progressives in America? And why aren't they in Obama's administration?

[Renegade08]

Some people are complaining that no progressives have been appointed to Obama's administration. Apparently, Obama, Hillary Clinton, Tom Daschle, Rahm Emmanuel, Eric Holder, et al, are all unprogressive, centrist, DLC'ers, moderates, what have you, but not progressive.

If none of those people are "progressive," tell me, please, who in the world is?

And, before you say his name, I'll put down Dennis Kucinich as the paradigmatic progressive. Alright. Who else?

Is Kerry progressive? We know Nancy Pelosi is not, because she's the whipping post for the liberal blogosphere for all that is unprogressive about the democratic party. What about Barney Frank? Since he was a leader on the bailout package, he's clearly not progressive. Same for Chris Dodd. And, are all those senators who voted to let Lieberman keep his chair all unprogressives? Ted Kennedy? Or has he been around too long to be considered progressive anymore?

Feingold? But, I thought Feingold was a centrist?

Please help me out and tell me how to clearly tell the difference between a true progressive like Dennis Kucinich and unprogressive DLC centrist sell-outs like Obama and Clinton.

[Bicoastal]

1. I would say Al Gore, but like Kerry and Gavin Newsom, they're DLC'ers.

So I'm at a loss. :shrug:

[Renegade08]

4. And Al Gore's wife was into censorship and putting warning labels on albums with naughty lyrics.

So, you're no help. Gore, Kerry, and Newsom - all lousy triangulating centrist conservative DLC'ers.

C'mon, who are the "pure" progressives? It's not just Dennis Kucinich, is it? And Bernie Sanders, our socialist senator from Vermont.

[girl gone mad]

7. What does Tipper have to do with it?

Do you think Carville's a Republican because he's married to Mary Matalin?

:shrug:

[Bicoastal]

10. Joe Lieberman was to Al Gore what Sarah Palin was to John McCain!

:scared::scared::yoiks::scared::scared:

[Renegade08]

11. Did Gore repudiate Tipper's crusade? Nope. And he picked Lieberman as VP

and Lieberman railed against the evils of popular culture and video games back before he turned into a war-hawk.

[girl gone mad]

16. Great.

That doesn't answer my question.

[PBS Poll-435]

2. LOL

:rofl:

[grantcart]

3. are you talking about true progressives or true true progressives or

the very elusive very very true true progressives?

[girl gone mad]

5. I differentiate between a progressive..

and a DLCer by whether they cater to the interests of lobbyists and corporations or whether they serve the people.

Kerry and Kennedy are more progressive than Clinton and Daschle, for instance.

Kaptur, Kucinich, Sanders, DeFazio, Feingold, Cantwell... those are just off of the top of my head.

[Renegade08]

8. So, Obama is progressive, according to your definition.

And, being a member of the DLC doesn't necessarily make you a DLC'er? If that's the case, why is Kerry a member of the DLC?

Also, how do we know whether a democrat caters or doesn't cater to lobbyists and corporations?

[girl gone mad]

14. DLCer/Centrist.. I was just giving shorthand.

It's pretty easy to see if a Democrat caters to lobbyists by looking at their voting record and listening to their public statements and reading the congressional record.

We have many great liberals in congress and many others in supporting roles.

[Renegade08]

20. Then Harry Reid is more of a progressive than Feingold.

According to the National Journal. http://www.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm

So are Menendez and Lautenberg.

And Obama is the most progressive of them all, even more progressive than Bernie Sanders.

[girl gone mad]

25. Nah.

It's a proprietary rating. Feingold was far more liberal on economic issues (Reid has a poor record on lobbyists). The foreign policy rating is extremely debatable.

[Renegade08]

33. Yeah, HUGE difference in voting records for Reid and Feingold.

Reid, Harry, D-Nev. 72 94 94 89.2
Feingold, Russell, D-W 79 94 76 85.5

Clearly Feingold is progressive while Reid is a spineless DLC lovin' corporate suck-up hack.

[girl gone mad]

46. Your getting that from the National Journal's fake rating.

You got that right about Feingold v. Reid. Where it counts, Reid votes for his corporate masters.

[Renegade08]

26. And Dennis Kucinich is no progressive. The guy's voting record makes him a CENTRIST.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/house/lib_cons.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=desc#results

You have to scroll really far down to get to Kucinich.

[Eric J in MN]

6. Howard Dean should be appointed head of the FDA. (NT)

NT

[Renegade08]

13. Howard Dean is NO progressive. He was a "centrist" as governor of Vermont.

Big law and order guy.

And, of course, he totally caved with regards to Lieberman.

[Eric J in MN]

17. Lieberman wasn't Howard Dean's decision.

Dean just put a positive spin on the decision afterwards.

If the vote had removed Joe Lieberman from his chairmanship, then Howard Dean would have put a positive spin on that.

[Renegade08]

22. So, Dean is a duplicitious spinning politician. That would seem to make him unprogressive.

Wouldn't it?

[Eric J in MN]

36. It's part of the job of chairman of the DNC to put a positive spin...

...on the actions of Senate Democrats.

I'm not saying I agree with Howard Dean's remarks about Lieberman, just that I forgive Dean for making them.

[girl gone mad]

18. He' was progressive as head of the DNC.

Also against the war.

FDR was a centrist before he was a liberal, too.

You seem to be trying to twist reality to make a stupid point, and failing at it.

[Renegade08]

21. So, you're saying someone who's not progressive can become progressive?

Like, say, someone like Joe Lieberman? Or any of the centrists that Obama has picked for his administration? Even Hillary could do a Howard Dean and become progressive when placed in a new position? You mean we shouldn't summarily write off people as unprogressive, just like it would have been wrong to have written off Dean as unprogressive based on his record as governor? Is this what you're saying?

[girl gone mad]

27. You're talking in circles.

This is quite boring.

Emanuel hates progressives and has a history of working against them.

Clinton had years to do the right thing, she made her bed with corporations, bought and paid for. The Clintons' whole agenda was to be "Republican lite".

Daschle sold out progressive causes over and over and also did the corporation's bidding. He went out of his way to appease Republicans.

Dean and FDR, even in their centrist days were never that bad.

[Renegade08]

29. Some very principled standards you're using there, GGM.

Isn't it funny how your definition of progressive is so malleable, that anyone you think is progressive is progressive, while anyone you think is not progressive is not progressive.

[girl gone mad]

32. In this thread, you've basically tried to equate..

slapping warning labels on CDs and hiring more police officers with voting for the IWR, deregulation, bankruptcy laws and other corporate giveaways that have brought this nation to its knees.

And I have a funny definition of progressive?

:rofl:

[Renegade08]

34. So, anyone who voted for the Iraq War are unprogressive? Kerry, Edwards, etc?

What about anyone who voted for the bailout plan? Them, too? Corporate sell-outs?

[Genevieve]

9. Robert Wexler nt

[elleng]

12. and who HAS been 'appointed'

to O's administration?

LET IT GO, folks!

[Renegade08]

15. Are you telling me to let it go? Have you even read my OP?

[elleng]

39. Yes,

and Yes.

My point: Let's relax.

[Renegade08]

41. And, what's the point of my post?

And I'm very relaxed, thank you very much.

All I want are the names of some real live progressives who should be in Obama's cabinet.

I thought Kucinich was a true progressive, but, apparently he's all style but no substance.

[elleng]

43. As grantcart says,

'are you talking about true progressives or true true progressives, or . . . .'

I don't think its useful to play label-games.

Glad you're very relaxed; you are welcome very much.

[Starry Messenger]

19. Bring me a shrubbery. n/t

OT, I am loving this new firefox smiley plug-in.

[tandem5]

23. There is no Dana, only ZOOL!!

I have no such emoticon to fit the moment.

[Starry Messenger]

24. All hail the internetz:

[tandem5]

30. ah but can you cut down the mightiest tree in the forest WIIITHH...

(wait for it) a herring!!??

[Starry Messenger]

35. .

[tandem5]

37. you win...

here is your major award from FRA-GEE-LE:

[Cleita]

28. I don't know who the progressives are, but I do know who the liberals are

and Dennis Kucinich is one of them, along with Bernie Sanders who is not a Democrat, incidentally. If you want to know who is involved with the DLC go to their website and you will know. It would be nice if Obama does appoint one or two liberals to balance the see saw.

[Renegade08]

31. Kucinich is NOT a liberal. Check out his voting record.

There are about a 100 representatives with more liberal voting records than Kucinich.

From the National Journal ranking of most liberal representatives in 2007:

Sanchez, Linda, D-Calif.-39 95 5
Schakowsky, Jan, D-Ill.-9 95 5
Wynn, Albert, D-Md.-4 95 5
McGovern, Jim, D-Mass.-3 95 5
Conyers, John, D-Mich.-14 95 5
Baldwin, Tammy, D-Wis.-2 95 5
Moore, Gwen, D-Wis.-4 95 5
Honda, Mike, D-Calif.-15 94 6
Capps, Lois, D-Calif.-23 94 6
Delahunt, Bill, D-Mass.-10 93.3 6.7
Watt, Melvin, D-N.C.-12 93.3 6.7
Ellison, Keith, D-Minn.-5 93.2 6.8
Carson, Julia, D-Ind.-7 † 93 7
Farr, Sam, D-Calif.-17 92.7 7.3
Hinchey, Maurice, D-N.Y.-22 92.5 7.5
Johnson, Hank, D-Ga.-4 92.3 7.7
Slaughter, Louise, D-N.Y.-28 92.3 7.7
Roybal-Allard, Lucille, D-Calif.-34 92.2 7.8
Solis, Hilda, D-Calif.-32 91.7 8.3
Filner, Bob, D-Calif.-51 91.5 8.5
Napolitano, Grace, D-Calif.-38 90.8 9.2
Olver, John, D-Mass.-1 90.7 9.3
Price, David, D-N.C.-4 90.7 9.3
Frank, Barney, D-Mass.-4 89.7 10.3
Holt, Rush, D-N.J.-12 89.7 10.3
Velazquez, Nydia, D-N.Y.-12 89.7 10.3
Lowey, Nita, D-N.Y.-18 89.7 10.3
Becerra, Xavier, D-Calif.-31 89.3 10.7
Jackson Jr., Jesse, D-Ill.-2 89.3 10.7
Gutierrez, Luis, D-Ill.-4 89.3 10.7
Grijalva, Raul, D-Ariz.-7 89.2 10.8
Hastings, Alcee, D-Fla.-23 89.2 10.8
Pallone, Frank, D-N.J.-6 88.7 11.3
Payne, Donald, D-N.J.-10 88.7 11.3
Clarke, Yvette, D-N.Y.-11 88.7 11.3
DeGette, Diana, D-Colo.-1 88.3 11.7
Tierney, John, D-Mass.-6 88.3 11.7
Van Hollen, Chris, D-Md.-8 88 12
Crowley, Joseph, D-N.Y.-7 88 12
Watson, Diane, D-Calif.-33 87.7 12.3
Wexler, Robert, D-Fla.-19 87.3 12.7
Hirono, Maze, D-Hawaii-2 87.3 12.7
Neal, Richard, D-Mass.-2 87.3 12.7
Green, Al, D-Texas-9 87.2 12.8
Berman, Howard, D-Calif.-28 86.3 13.7
Woolsey, Lynn, D-Calif.-6 86.2 13.8
McCollum, Betty, D-Minn.-4 86.2 13.8
Matsui, Doris, D-Calif.-5 86 14
Lofgren, Zoe, D-Calif.-16 86 14
Nadler, Jerrold, D-N.Y.-8 86 14
Scott, Bobby, D-Va.-3 85.8 14.2
Sarbanes, John, D-Md.-3 85.3 14.7
Waxman, Henry, D-Calif.-30 84.5 15.5
DeLauro, Rosa, D-Conn.-3 84.5 15.5
Markey, Edward, D-Mass.-7 84.5 15.5
Lee, Barbara, D-Calif.-9 84.3 15.7
Waters, Maxine, D-Calif.-35 84.3 15.7
Clay, William Lacy, D-Mo.-1 84.2 15.8
Towns, Edolphus, D-N.Y.-10 84.2 15.8
Brady, Robert, D-Pa.-1 84 16
Kennedy, Patrick, D-R.I.-1 83.8 16.2
McDermott, Jim, D-Wash.-7 83.8 16.2
Blumenauer, Earl, D-Ore.-3 83.7 16.3
Pascrell, Bill, D-N.J.-8 83.5 16.5
Lewis, John, D-Ga.-5 83.3 16.7
Meeks, Gregory, D-N.Y.-6 83.3 16.7
Engel, Eliot, D-N.Y.-17 83.3 16.7
Rush, Bobby, D-Ill.-1 82.8 17.2
Davis, Danny, D-Ill.-7 82.5 17.5
Bishop, Tim, D-N.Y.-1 82.5 17.5
Fattah, Chaka, D-Pa.-2 82.2 17.8
Loebsack, Dave, D-Iowa-2 82 18
Cleaver, Emanuel, D-Mo.-5 82 18
Kilpatrick, Carolyn, D-Mich.-13 81.8 18.2
Lee, Sheila Jackson, D-Texas-18 81.8 18.2
Langevin, Jim, D-R.I.-2 81.2 18.8
Clyburn, James, D-S.C.-6 81 19
Welch, Peter, D-Vt.-AL 81 19
Larson, John, D-Conn.-1 80.8 19.2
Weiner, Anthony, D-N.Y.-9 80.7 19.3
Inslee, Jay, D-Wash.-1 80.7 19.3
Miller, George, D-Calif.-7 80.3 19.7
Sires, Albio, D-N.J.-13 80.3 19.7
Rangel, Charles, D-N.Y.-15 80.3 19.7
Obey, David, D-Wis.-7 80.3 19.7
Maloney, Carolyn, D-N.Y.-14 80 20
Udall, Tom, D-N.M.-3 79.8 20.2
Thompson, Bennie, D-Miss.-2 79.7 20.3
Rothman, Steven, D-N.J.-9 79.5 20.5
Ackerman, Gary, D-N.Y.-5 79.5 20.5
Hoyer, Steny, D-Md.-5 79.2 20.8
Capuano, Michael, D-Mass.-8 79.2 20.8
Jones, Stephanie Tubbs, D-Ohio-11 79 21
Shea-Porter, Carol, D-N.H.-1 78.5 21.5
Sutton, Betty, D-Ohio-13 78.5 21.5
Sherman, Brad, D-Calif.-27 78.3 21.7
Miller, Brad, D-N.C.-13 78.3 21.7
Serrano, Jose, D-N.Y.-16 78 22
Sanchez, Loretta, D-Calif.-47 77.8 22.2
Eshoo, Anna, D-Calif.-14 77.7 22.3
Harman, Jane, D-Calif.-36 77.7 22.3
Johnson, Eddie Bernice, D-Texas-30 77.7 22.3
Cummings, Elijah, D-Md.-7 77.5 22.5
Schultz, Debbie, D-Fla.-20 77.3 22.7
Wu, David, D-Ore.-1 77.3 22.7
Abercrombie, Neil, D-Hawaii-1 77.2 22.8
Allen, Tom, D-Maine-1 76.8 23.2
Moran, Jim, D-Va.-8 76.8 23.2
Baca, Joe, D-Calif.-43 76.7 23.3
Meek, Kendrick, D-Fla.-17 76.5 23.5
Andrews, Robert, D-N.J.-1 76.2 23.8
Hodes, Paul, D-N.H.-2 76 24
Cohen, Steve, D-Tenn.-9 76 24
Thompson, Mike, D-Calif.-1 75.8 24.2
Pastor, Ed, D-Ariz.-4 75.3 24.7
Tauscher, Ellen, D-Calif.-10 75.3 24.7
Stark, Pete, D-Calif.-13 75.2 24.8
Doyle, Mike, D-Pa.-14 75.2 24.8
Doggett, Lloyd, D-Texas-25 74.5 25.5
McCarthy, Carolyn, D-N.Y.-4 74.3 25.7
Dingell, John, D-Mich.-15 73.5 26.5
Hooley, Darlene, D-Ore.-5 73.3 26.7
Courtney, Joe, D-Conn.-2 73.2 26.8
Jefferson, William, D-La.-2 73 27
Lantos, Tom, D-Calif.-12 † 72.8 27.2
Israel, Steve, D-N.Y.-2 72.8 27.2
Emanuel, Rahm, D-Ill.-5 72.3 27.7
Lynch, Stephen, D-Mass.-9 72.3 27.7
Schiff, Adam, D-Calif.-29 72.2 27.8
Castor, Kathy, D-Fla.-11 72.2 27.8
Dicks, Norm, D-Wash.-6 72.2 27.8
McNulty, Michael, D-N.Y.-21 72 28
Visclosky, Peter, D-Ind.-1 70.8 29.2
Braley, Bruce, D-Iowa-1 70.7 29.3
Scott, David, D-Ga.-13 70.5 29.5
Ryan, Tim, D-Ohio-17 70.3 29.7
Kagen, Steve, D-Wis.-8 70.3 29.7
McNerney, Jerry, D-Calif.-11 70.2 29.8
Kaptur, Marcy, D-Ohio-9 70.2 29.8
Larsen, Rick, D-Wash.-2 70 30
Yarmuth, John, D-Ky.-3 69.7 30.3
Davis, Susan, D-Calif.-53 69.5 30.5
Arcuri, Michael, D-N.Y.-24 69.2 30.8
Michaud, Michael, D-Maine-2 68.8 31.2
Murphy, Chris, D-Conn.-5 68 32
Higgins, Brian, D-N.Y.-27 68 32
Levin, Sanger, D-Mich.-12 67.8 32.2
Brown, Corrine, D-Fla.-3 67.7 32.3
Oberstar, James, D-Minn.-8 67.7 32.3
Perlmutter, Ed, D-Colo.-7 67.5 32.5
DeFazio, Peter, D-Ore.-4 67.5 32.5
Hare, Phil, D-Ill.-17 67.3 32.7
Kildee, Dale, D-Mich.-5 67.2 32.8
Butterfield, G.K., D-N.C.-1 67.2 32.8
Smith, Adam, D-Wash.-9 67 33
Hall, John, D-N.Y.-19 66.7 33.3
Moore, Dennis, D-Kan.-3 66.5 33.5
Kucinich, Dennis, D-Ohio-10 66.3

http://www.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/house/lib.htm

[girl gone mad]

44. Media Matters says that the National Journal's methodology..

is flawed.

They only look at 99 senate votes, chosen by their panel. They don't account for absences. Among the votes the considered "liberal" was the vote to implement the nonpartisan 9/11 commission's recommendations (?).

Then there's this from Time:

The more interesting question, though, is, Does this “most liberal” ranking actually mean anything? And the answer, once you look at the National Journal's methodology, is not really. I say this only because I got an email from Dave Meyer, a researcher here in DC, who is one of the many usually-unnamed people who toil behind the scenes in Washington brokering in information. Here is what Meyer wrote:

I actually browsed through the scorecard National Journal used to determine the ranking. There are precisely two scored votes where Obama took the liberal position and Clinton took the conservative. The first was Joe Lieberman's S.Amdt. 30 to S.Amdt. 3 to S.1 The Amendment was "To establish a Senate Office of Public Integrity." Here's the roll call of the 27-71 vote. Joining Obama on the "liberal" side -- meaning the side in support of Joe Lieberman's amendment -- were Republicans Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe Chuck Grassley, and John McCain.

The second was Jeff Bingaman's S.Amdt. 1267 to S.Amdt.1150 to S.1348, the Immigration Reform bill. The Amendment was "To remove the requirement that Y-1 nonimmigrant visa holders leave the United States before they are able to renew their visa." Here's the roll call of the 41-57 vote (60 votes needed to pass, so it failed by 19). Joining Obama on the "liberal' side were Richard Shelby, Chuck Hagel, and Tom Coburn.

So there you have it. Obama is more liberal than Clinton because he voted with John McCain, the most likely Republican nominee, and Tom Coburn, one of the Senate's most conservative members. Ain't political rankings a wonderful thing.

In other words, the NJ "most liberal Senators" ranking is a total scam.

[Renegade08]

53. It's such a scam that the most liberal senators are all democrats.

And the most conservative senators are all republicans. What a scam.

[garybeck]

38. READ THIS from David Sirota.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/should-we-be-surprised_b_144684.html

A question in the aftermath of Chairman Lieberman's heroic return to the welcoming arms of the Senate Democratic club: Should we be surprised?

No, really, this is a serious question.

With its congressional majority, the Democratic Party has refused to seriously try to end the war, to stop the bailout and to stop the trampling of civil liberties, just to name a few off the top of my head. In fact, with their votes, they have aggressively worked to start and continue the war, pass the bailout and destroy our constitutional rights to privacy. So, are we really surprised that they have rewarded Joe Lieberman with a chairmanship that he can use to investigate the president he said poses a danger to America?

As gross as the Senate statement celebrating the demise of "the Left" is, there's a truth in the part where the aide says progressives "can rant and rage but they still do not put the fear into folks to actually change their votes." That truth is that the progressive movement - as independent from the Democratic Party - is still incredibly weak.

Because so much organizing under the banner of the "progressive movement" is - in reality - electoral organizing on behalf of the Democratic Party, there's very little independent leverage over that Democratic Party, especially in non-election periods. As just one example, when, for instance, Moveon.org gets swallowed whole by the Obama campaign and turned into just another Internet appendage of that campaign, a group like Moveon.org subsequently has no real independent leverage over the Democratic Party because Moveon has trained its own members to believe participation in Moveon - and in the "progressive movement" - is always synonymous with reflexively supporting Democratic leaders (by the way, I cite this not to pick on Moveon - this is the basic construct of many progressive organizations, but I use Moveon just to give an example we can all relate to).

So, in many ways, the public attacks on "the Left" from congressional Democrats - while motivated from their Reagan-era cultural hatred of Dirty Fucking Hippies - is to be completely expected from a party that has failed to deliver on every major progressive promise it has made, and has nonetheless faced no real retribution. It is par for the course from leaders who quite understandably feel little fear from a still-weak progressive movement.

They believe - with justifiable reason - that come election time we'll all forget their failings, whether failing to end the war or failing to disempower Lieberman. They believe that most "progressive movement" activists will actually do what they did during the last election - berate anyone who floats the idea that movement organizing and carrot-and-stick treatment of the Democratic Party during election time is actually a good thing. They believe, in short, that come 2010, we'll all fall in line and be an ATM machine of partisan campaign contributions and candidate volunteer time because we are still very much organized as a party, not a movement.

And here's the thing: Except for a few fleeting primaries, most of recent history suggests their calculation is right.

If we want to avoid this kind of thing in the future, we better understand why this happened. Because if we don't, and somehow still expect "change we can believe in," we're epitomizing Albert Einstein's "definition of insanity" - we're "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

[Renegade08]

40. Um, so he's saying there are no progressives out there at all?

Are the only true progressives those netroots stalwarts on the internets?

[garybeck]

49. and the Dirty Fucking Hippies...

No, I think he's pointing out that so far there's been a lot of action in the middle and a few disappointments to progressives, and that they are taken for granted because they always vote for the democrats.

[LatteLibertine]

42. I hate to say this

and conservatives and liberals don't have a party or real representation. We are exploited for votes by either party, then ignored.

[Sinti]

45. Apparently the definition changes depending on time of day

phase of the moon, and who is talking at the moment. So generally it's not WHO are the progressives, in truth, it's WHAT is a progressive more often than not.

People will fuss - it is their nature. The world is going to hell, and folks have a lot of stress to blow off. If FDR himself were a politician today, I'm pretty sure he'd be getting flambeed daily for something or other.

However, I must say - do you always try to stir the pot wherever you go? Are you just having fun?

[Renegade08]

48. Good point. Most democrats have some progressive values.

Question is, what does it mean to be progressive? This is a question for which some serious discussion is needed, because this is about defining the future of progressive/liberal politics and the democratic party.

And me, a pot-stirrer? Nah, I'm just a renegade.

[Sinti]

50. Well, welcome to DU Renegade

I wish I could answer that question, too. I always thought a progressive was more of a pragmatist, one who throws off ideology, and convention for "What Works" in a forward thinking post-partisan manner. Obviously, I was misinformed. Things like the old CPTED programs for cities were considered very progressive back in the day... now I'm just not sure.

It would be sufficiently progressive for me if they'd just stop killing people and be responsible (no more war - no more Katrina-type things - no more throwing money in the Halliburton toilet when you could use it to do constructive things - and no more trashing life in general). I think if they did those simple things we could probably work the rest out here on the ground - help would be nice, but probably not absolutely necessary.

[Cleita]

52. Liberals actually care about making sure that the least of us

are part of the process. Kucinich cares about that so he is a liberal. Howard Dean has always claimed to be a centrist but says that the center has moved so far to the right people think he is flaming liberal. So really, what we are saying is that we don't care for Republican Lite no matter how nicely the DLC hangs their lace curtains.

[Mark E. Smith]

47. Ideological purity

Now there's a topic guaranteed to put you to sleep.

[iamincali83]

51. YAWN

:boring::boring::boring:

[Thrill]

54. Did I miss something? When did Obama finish filling his cabinet

[Renegade08]

55. That isn't stopping people from bemoaning Obama's cabinet non-picks.