Does Obama Really Want the Clinton Circus in his Big Tent?

[ProSense]

Obama And Secretary Of State Hillary: Good Cop, Bad Cop

By Greg Sargent - November 20, 2008, 2:36PM
A very smart analysis from Steve Clemons of the rationale behind the Hillary Secretary of State pick:

The Clinton we have grown accustomed to over the last year is perceived as a spear-carrier for the Madeleine Albright school of values-driven liberal interventionism. Albright proponents argue that in contrast to the reckless efforts of neoconservatives to spread democracy and promote global justice at the end of a gun, Albright got regime change right in the Balkans.

Obama is the guy who wanted to meet the world's most thuggish leaders, who wanted strategic change, and who wanted to avoid the "wrong kind of experience" -- implying Clinton's team was riveted in the past and not ready for the future. Obama strategist David Axelrod went so far as to tie Clinton to some responsibility for Benazir Bhutto's death for not doing more to stop Bush's wars in the Middle East.

Despite all of these differences, hiring Clinton may be a masterstroke of genius that has all the markings of a high-risk, high-reward move with which this political tycoon Obama has grown comfortable...

If Obama wants to change the strategic game on Iran, Israel-Palestine, Syria, Cuba, Russia and other challenges, he will need partners who are perceived as tough, smart, shrewd and even skeptical of the deals he wants to do. Clinton is all of these.

Clinton may be the bad cop to Obama's good cop. Because she is trusted by Pentagon-hugging national security conservatives, she may legitimize his desire to respond to this pivot point in American history with bold strokes rather than incremental ones.

Obama...intends to, in part, be his own secretary of state, focused on re-sculpting America's global social contract and working in partnership with a diverse team of hard-edged policy players like Clinton to make even his rivals do his direct bidding.

This could be a kind of proactive agenda-setting in foreign policy we haven't seen in decades.

It would be the ultimate irony if Obama were able to change national security politics at home, and achieve true transformation of America's posture abroad, in part because of the political cover he got from someone he long derided as captive to the very same foreign policy mindset he's setting out to transform.

Obama is looking for a rogue SoS, one who can give him an easy out to back out of his stated policies? Ridiculous.

Boston Globe editorial: What's needed at State

AP report:

At the State Department, the prospect of Clinton as secretary is creating some anxiety among career foreign service officers worried that she would install her own loyalists and exclude them from policy-making. Some at the State Department see her as a foreign policy lightweight, although there is grudging acknowledgment of her star power.

Does Obama Really Want the Clinton Circus in his Big Tent?

By David Corn | November 20, 2008

All the talk--and melodrama--about Hillary Clinton becoming secretary of state continues. On Tuesday, I noted that a good argument against her was her management--or mismanagement--of her presidential campaign. Hillary Clinton did a lousy job of putting together a team that could work cooperatively and competently. She veered from one tactic to the next. She engaged in spin above and beyond the call of duty. Her campaign was a mess. Could she do better at State--which desperately needs to be revived after having been kicked in the teeth for eight years by the Bush-Cheney White House?

But here's another reason to ponder. Consider how smoothly the Obama campaign ran. Were there many leaks? Signs of internal disputes? Short answer: no. It was a disciplined shop. Disagreements were worked out in private. No one ran to reporters to play the usual game of leaking. Now consider what has happened in the past week. There has been a flood of leaks about Hillary Clinton and the State Department post. Where are they coming from? The best guess is, the Clinton side. And that side is bifurcated between Bill's people and Hillary's people, who don't always get along. If Obama places Hillary in his cabinet, it's likely such behind-the-scenes scheming and leaking will continue. Imagine if there are any disagreements between State and the National Security Council or the Pentagon. Won't the Clinton ops go into their usual take-no-prisoners-and-leak-away mode? Does Obama want to bring the Clinton circus into his Big Tent?

The more this drama plays out, the more curious it appears. What's Obama thinking on this front? I don't see any leaks about that.

link

Curious indeed.

Rumors were being floated that Kerry was lobbying for the position, and then he issued a statement:

"I haven't talked to anybody. I've had no conversations. It's all speculation, and I have nothing further to say," Kerry said after attending a Veterans Day ceremony at the Statehouse.

End of rumors.

Here's how the Penny Pritzker rumor played out.

Pritzker says no

Team Obama on Pritzker

November 20, 2008 3:22 PM

Obama-Biden Transition Team spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter says, "Penny Pritzker is a trusted adviser and valued friend to the President-elect, and played a critical role in his campaign. She would be an enormous asset to an Obama Administration given her experience in business and economic growth, but has decided that given her family and business commitments she is not interested in serving at this time. She'll continue to be a close economic advisor to the President-elect and his team."

And an Obama aide adds: "Penny Pritzker was never submitted for a vet, because she indicated she was not interested in serving at this time. The reports over the last 24 hours are simply not true."

So why the freakshow around the rumors about Hillary having been offered the job? Since then, she has been rumored to have accepted it, but is now reconsidering the offer while hedging her bets in the Senate.

Could it be the rumor mill is being operated by the same people who have engaged in the "what Hillary wants, deserves, should get" drama?

You know, these people: the donors who sent letters demanding this or that on Hillary's behalf, the people incessantly postulating about why she deserves the VP slot and others who were insisting that Obama has to repay her debt.

There are numerous positions being filled and many people being vetted. Why is it that the the rumor mongers always seems to be an exclusive club of Clinton surrogates?

I've heard it's becuase others don't sell papers, but I'm not buying it. At this point, anyone Obama considers for a position will be enough to sell papers.





edited for errors

[FrenchieCat]

1. Just the fact that there are Hillary People, and Bill People and

Obama people points to problems in my estimation.

and yes, the leaking and the various directions of this whole SOS topic is giving most of us whiplash....and that ain't good.

I want quiet forceful effective diplomacy, not a 3 ring circus.

[Cosmic Charlie]

93. Exactly. No Clowns allowed.

[LaydeeBug]

138. Hillary Clinton is an established statesman, not a clown, and she doesn't deserve to be denigrated.

nt

[QC]

141. You are talking to the dead.

Check out his profile.

[LaydeeBug]

136. It's a good thing Obama seems to want strong foreign policy wonks instead of appeasing your bs idea

of a circus.

I'm glad I voted for him and he's smart enough to reach out to former Clinton Administration officials. And you know he HAS reached out to a NUMBER of Clintonians. Why, just this past primary season, Rahm Emmanuel was nothin' more than an albatross of DLC slung around Hillary Clinton's neck, and now... :rofl: To any of you who were dumb enough to think there was much of a difference between them...this ain't apple pie, but it is your just desserts.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mmonk]

3. Not the circus. Its employees.

[ProSense]

4. The notion that Obama is trying to put a hawkish face on foreign policy so

that he can sneak in a liberal agenda is rubbish as an excuse for Hillary as SoS.

Why not go with Richard Holbroke?

Also, this entire scheme seems to suggest that the world, while we know negotiations can be delicate and tricky, is going to play this game. In other words, what good is this game when it comes to Hillary and Iran?

Another thing is that it suggest Obama things that foreign policy is a game.

Ridiculous.

[ClarkUSA]

5. Who needs Barnum and Bailey? Read "Freak Show: Behind the Clinton for Secretary of State Rumors"

It was written six days ago when Lanny Davis started leaking like a sieve, but it's interesting in its analysis.
Then there's "Mr. President-Elect: Judge Abner Mikva Is Right."

[blm]

9. Interesting the writer brought up Bhutto - anyone know of ONE THING Clintons did to help

Biden and Kerry when they were begging Bush to force Musharraf to provide added security for Bhutto in the months before she was murdered?

Did Bill use his CONSIDERABLE talent and goodwill he built up with the Bushes to intercede on Bhutto's behalf the way Kerry and Biden did with NO accumulated influence on the Bushes?

[ProSense]

6. Clinton Decision Expected Soon

Clinton Decision Expected Soon

20 Nov 2008 05:27 pm

Senior advisers to Sen. Hillary Clinton have told associates that by close of business on Friday, they will know, one way or the other, whether Clinton will become President-elect Barack Obama's Secretary of State.

Given the size of the colander holes in Washington these days, the decision, whenever it is made, will probably leak fairly rapidly.

The Politico's Mike Allen reported Wednesday that loose ends will be wrapped up in short order, and that an announcement of Clinton's position could come before Thanksgiving.

Transition officials caution that the timing of any announcement is subject to change. One Democrat in daily contact with transition officials said the Clinton appointment "is all but a done deal," although that official did not know whether Clinton has formally accepted a formal offer.

So maybe we know nothing more than we know already.

A Clinton spokesman referred all requests for comment to the transition team; a transition spokesman declined to comment.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. Obviously He Does. And Good On Him For It! Hillary's A Great Addition!

[ProSense]

8. Source: Clinton Camp In Holding Pattern, Waiting On Obama

Source: Clinton Camp In Holding Pattern, Waiting On Obama

By Greg Sargent - November 20, 2008, 5:56PM

Advisers to Bill and Hillary Clinton believe they've given the Obama transition team much if not all of the all the information on Bill's post-presidency they will be asking for, and see the Clinton camp as now being in a holding pattern, waiting on a formal offer of the State Department gig to Hillary from Obama, a source close to the negotiations tells us.

The source adds that it's always possible that more requests for info about Bill could be made, which the Clinton team would willingly furnish if asked, but says that it looks as if the vast majority of the Obama camp's desires have been met. Multiple news outlets have reported that Hillary has not made up her mind whether to take the gig, and the source confirms this.

It's not yet clear whether the next step in the process will be Hillary signaling to Obama that she wants the gig, or whether it will be a formal offer from Obama, the source adds. Still, the fact that the Obama camp appears to have much if not all the info it wants is perhaps a sign that some of the public press around Bill could subside, which would be a source of relief in the Clinton camp and could hasten the resolution of the situation.

Multiple reports this morning said that Bill had agreed to a number of concessions to smooth Hillary's way to the Secretary of State job, including agreeing to disclose the identities of donors to his foundation and to vet future speeches and activities abroad with Obama aides.

Now Clinton advisers believe that they've satisfied the vast majority of the Obama camp's demands, the source says.

Spokespeople for Bill, Hillary and Obama all declined to comment.

Good grief!

[SoCalDem]

10. Why am I flashing back to pre-prom high school?

:rofl:

[PresidentObama]

11. Ok. And? n/t

[ErinBerin84]

13. Andrea Mitchell

was saying that "none of Clinton's TOP people are leaking info to the press, because she is only telling three people. The rest don't really speak for Hillary." Uhhh, ok, but how does Andrea even know that? How does she know who is the source for leaks of other newspapers, etc? (for the record, I think people in both camps should shut up....but I don't trust Andrea.)

[ProSense]

14. Exactly.

Sources say Hillary told three people and swore them to secrecy.

The thing is, where is the play-by-play of her decision-making process coming from?

Hillary is awaiting the offer

[tridim]

19. It's coming from the Clintons.

This really isn't all that hard to figure out.

[ProSense]

12. Who's in the running for Obama administration jobs

Who's in the running for Obama administration jobs

Featured Topics: Barack Obama Presidential Transition It's Washington's favorite parlor game during a presidential transition: trying to figure out who'll land a top spot in the new administration. President-elect Barack Obama is weighing an array of Washington insiders and outsiders, including some Republicans, for Cabinet and other top positions, according to Democratic officials.

Just like the stock market, names rise and fall weekly, some zooming to the top, others dropping out of contention. Hillary Rodham Clinton suddenly is considered the top prospect for secretary of state, although other names remain in the mix. It looks like Eric Holder, former deputy attorney general, is on track to become attorney general.

Some of those who are the subject of speculation already have been chosen by Obama to serve as part of his transition team. Some names being floated are surprising, such as former Bush Secretary of State Colin Powell for education secretary. Others are high-profile governors or members of Congress. Many are also little known to the general public — and may remain so.

more

"Suddenly" after a week of declaring it so?

[ProSense]

15. CNN - Commentary: Clinton pick would be brilliant, but risky, move

Commentary: Clinton pick would be brilliant, but risky, move

Think someone is pushing this? It's the same tripe that's in the OP.

[niceypoo]

16. There is no Clinton Circus..

..except in the minds of a few freepers and a couple people who just cant get beyond some long forgotten primary race.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TankLV]

107. exactly...

not this shit again...

the Hillary/Clinton Haters disgust me...

after all, PEACE, HOPE, AND PROSPERITY were soooo bad, right?!

[dansolo]

114. It has nothing to do with the primary race

Some of us have reservations about the Clintons that have existed long before this election cycle. I don't hate the Clintons, but I don't trust them. Maybe it is as simple as the fact that they are both alpha personalities, and I can't see them working well as subordinates. I am using the plural, because any selection of Hillary as SOS will mandate a massive curtailing of Bill's activities.

[AtomicKitten]

17. Good question.

k&r

[ProSense]

18. Senate leadership role for Hillary?

Senate leadership role for Hillary?

By AMIE PARNES & GLENN THRUSH | 11/20/08 7:05 PM EST

Uncertainty over Hillary Rodham Clinton’s potential appointment as Secretary of State is rekindling interest in the creation of a new position for her in the Senate Democratic leadership, according to Democratic aides.

Discussion of the “new leadership role” for Clinton has gone on “for a couple of weeks” – pre-dating this week’s negotiations over the job at State, said one staffer familiar with the situation.

“There was a lot of talk about having to do something for her,” said a Democratic aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “That seemed unnecessary when the State thing popped up.”

Now, some allies see such an appointment as a possible soft landing for the former first lady if she isn’t tapped for Obama’s cabinet — or if she rejects an offer.

The staffer said there’s been no discussion of a specific title for Clinton in the Senate leadership – but that the post being envisioned would be outside the five existing Democratic leadership slots.

The new post would return Clinton to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s leadership circle: She served as chairwoman of the Democratic Steering Committee until stepping aside in 2006 for her presidential bid. She was replaced by Michigan Democrat Debbie Stabenow.

Some Democrats have reportedly been mulling creation of a Clinton-led task force that would have a research budget and staff, according to one Democratic staffer.

more

[ProSense]

20. Aide: Obama on track to nominate Clinton

Aide: Obama on track to nominate Clinton

By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer Nedra Pickler, Associated Press Writer – 23 mins ago

WASHINGTON – An aide to Barack Obama's transition team says the president-elect is on track to nominate Hillary Rodham Clinton as secretary of state after Thanksgiving.

One week after the former primary rivals met secretly to discuss the idea of Clinton becoming the nation's top diplomat, the two sides were moving quickly toward making it a reality barring any unforeseen problems.

The transition aide said they have worked out financial disclosure issues that involved her husband, former President Bill Clinton, and the complicated international funding of his foundation that operates in 27 nations. The aide said the two have had substantive conversations about the post.

As for the incoming administration's national security team, the aide said, possible appointments are being worked out and no formal announcements will be made before Thanksgiving.

[ProSense]

21. Hillary Clinton Sidesteps Secretary Of State Rumors

Hillary Clinton Sidesteps Secretary Of State Rumors

By: NY1 News

Senator Hillary Clinton did not confirm rumors Thursday night in Harlem that she will be Barack Obama's nominee for secretary of state.

According to the Associated Press, transition aides say the president-elect is on track to nominate her after Thanksgiving.

The former first lady helped open a Harlem squash center for area kids and then took a question about whether she'll be in the Obama administration.

A reporter asked, "Senator, The young people want to know if you're going to be sec of state."

"Somehow I don't think that’s on a lot of young people’s minds," replied Clinton, who left without taking any other questions.

Obama officials are vetting the senator for the job and ensuring former President Bill Clinton's private business does not conflict with the post.

[ProSense]

22. Obama to Offer Clinton State Job, Seriously This Time

Obama to Offer Clinton State Job, Seriously This Time

By Matthew DeLong 11/21/08 9:34 AM

The Associated Press reported late Thursday that President-elect Barack Obama is expected to officially offer the post of secretary of state to his former primary rival, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, just after Thanksgiving, according to “an aide to the transition.”

The transition aide told The Associated Press that the two camps have worked out financial disclosure issues involving Clinton’s husband, former President Bill Clinton, and the complicated international funding of his foundation that operates in 27 countries. The aide said Obama and Hillary Clinton have had substantive conversations about the secretary of state job.

Clinton has been mulling the post for several days, but the transition aide’s comments suggested that Obama’s team does not feel she is inclined to turn it down.

Politico’s Mike Allen confirms the report, citing a pair of “senior Obama aides.”

Considering previous reports usually cited unnamed “Democratic officials,” it appears the leakers are becoming more senior, which presumably means the information is becoming more accurate. It also suggests the transition team’s leak problem is getting worse, despite recent threats that anyone caught leaking would be fired.

[ProSense]

23. Report: Clinton Camp Fabricated Initial Obama "Offer"

Report: Clinton Camp Fabricated Initial Obama "Offer":

Obama's meetings with Hillary Clinton and John McCain about playing important roles in his presidency indicated his imagination and his shrewdness, although sources close to Obama say he did not offer her the job of secretary of state when they met. He had said during the campaign that he wanted various views in his government, and in turning to his own former competitors, Obama was at the same time magnanimous and seeking to keep them close. Both were in a position to cause him difficulty in the Senate--Clinton, in particular, had kept her constituency intact (through HillPAC) and was planning her own Senate agenda, including her own health care program, no matter what Obama proposed. But Clinton lacks the seniority, and therefore a committee position from which to get her proposals taken up by the Senate. (She tried to get a special subcommittee appointed, but Edward M. Kennedy, who has his own health care plan and is chairman of the committee with jurisdiction over the issue, blocked her, offering her later a role concerning health insurance.) McCain had indicated that he wanted to help Obama in the Senate, and by taking him up on it, Obama has both flattered and coopted him.

Mrs. Clinton's and her closest advisers' turning a suggestion by the President-elect that she might, among other things, head the State Department into an "offer" and reports that she was agonizing over whether to accept it, did not please officials in Chicago, some of whom hoped that issues over disclosure of Bill Clinton's post-presidential record might block the appointment. But the former president's camp blocked that by promising to cooperate with requests for information and to accept limits on his activities, including clearance of speaking engagements abroad. Statements by the Hilary camp on November 21 saying that "she's ready" for the position but then backtracking, saying that some matters were "under discussion," typified the whole mess, the only snag thus far in an otherwise unusually smooth transition involving impressive choices--an object lesson to Obama (which he had reason to know already) that getting involved with the Clintons is rarely uncomplicated.

Outrageous, the Clintons and their surrogates never lie! :sarcasm:

[mtnsnake]

24. What are you gonna do when and if it's finally confirmed?

Blow off even more steam? Good grief.

[ProSense]

25. Send Bill Clinton to the Senate

Send Bill Clinton to the Senate

By Karl E. Meyer and Shareen Blair Brysac
Wednesday, November 26, 2008; Page A13

Amid the blizzard of résumés blanketing Washington as the Obama era dawns, there is a superbly qualified candidate for full employment whose name has been overlooked. We refer, of course, to William Jefferson Clinton, America's 42nd chief executive and commander in chief. Yet now, by a wonderful combination of circumstances, comes an opportunity to harness his unquestioned political talents to benefit his country, the Democratic Party, New York state and his spouse. If, as is expected, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton becomes secretary of state, New York Gov. David Paterson could send her husband to the U.S. Senate.

Doing so would spare the governor the agonizing dilemma of choosing from the 20 or so Democrats already named as contenders for the junior senator's seat. Those mentioned include six sitting members of the House of Representatives (three of each sex), Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, Caroline Kennedy and her cousin Robert Kennedy Jr., Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown (an African American), and Bronx Borough President Adolfo Carrión Jr. (who is Hispanic). In this no-win competition, Paterson has to balance claims of gender, race, ethnicity and geography. He could wind up gaining one grateful ally while alienating not only all the losers but also millions of members of the disparate constituencies that each represents.

Hence the appeal of Bill Clinton. Who in his party could question so historic and dazzling a choice? In a stroke, the appointment would provide Sen. Clinton's indefatigable husband with a fitting day job, serve the interests of a state beset by a meltdown in its most vital economic sector and offer a refreshing reverse twist on a tradition whereby deceased male senators, representatives or governors are succeeded by their widows.

It wouldn't be the first time an emeritus U.S. president was sent to Congress. In 1828, John Quincy Adams, like his father a prickly but principled chief executive, lost his bid for a second term to Andrew Jackson, the first populist Democrat. Two years later, Massachusetts voters elected Adams to the House of Representatives, where he served until 1848. "Old Man Eloquent" was renowned for his impassioned opposition to slavery, leading an eight-year fight to reverse a "gag rule" promoted by Southerners that required the automatic tabling of any petitions opposing slaveholding.

more

Yikes!

[wyldwolf]

26. heh! That would kill you wouldn't it?

[sufrommich]

27. Do you wake up in the morning with DTs that simply

won't go away until you post your daily anti-Clinton thread.

[ProSense]

30. I see you lay in waiting for each of my threads. BTW, is the OP article anti-Clinton?

Consider varying your irrelevant responses. Better yet, stick to the topic of the OP.

Still, if I had a vote, it would not be no, but hell no.

[mtnsnake]

31. Only you could spam a Thanksgiving thread & slander Bill in that one, too.

when the subject of it had nothing to do with him. Now THAT is sick!!!

[atimetocome]

105. :-)

:smoke:

[sufrommich]

33. Your egotistic paranoia is noted. I comment because you

crack me up.

[ProSense]

34. "won't go away until you post your daily anti-Clinton thread." That reminds me of something:

stalking.

[TankLV]

108. no - just observing - because you do IT'S ALL YOU DO...

and it's very tiring...

all of us are tired of it, frankly...

psst...THE PRIMARYS ARE OVER!!!

[ProSense]

115. "all of us are tired of it, frankly..."

I don't give a shit what you're tired of.

Use the ignore button if you can't deal with reality.

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mtnsnake]

35. LOL

Now THAT paints a picture!

[Jennicut]

28. That would be a major step down for Bill though

I don't see him doing it....Prez to Senator?

[City Lights]

29. Agreed. nt

[NewJeffCT]

32. I'm hoping for Anthony Weiner

seems to be pretty good.

[ClarkUSA]

36. I can see it now: Clinton/Clinton 2016

PUMAs would cream in their pantsuits.

Next thing we'll hear from "unnamed Clinton associates": Gov. Patterson "offered" Bill the job over lunch the other day!!

:rofl:

[ProSense]

37. People have legimate reasons to question Hillary's judgment

2001 bankruptcy bill
Cluster bomb


"work is a four-letter word."
Sen. Clinton Apologizes To Chelsea
Hillary Clinton's Flawed Apology


Hillary Clinton 'truly regrets' Gandhi joke
Video


Hillary Clinton Joins In

When the shoe was on the other foot:

Clinton's 'plantation' remark draws fire
Obama defends Hillary Clinton's 'plantation' remark

At first blush they seemed like a surprising couple: Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and Senator John Kerry, teaming up last month to defend Mrs. Clinton from Pentagon criticism over the Iraq war – criticism that had a Swift-Boat-style ring to it, her campaign believed, of questioning her patriotism.

link

[Captain Hilts]

38. She didn't vote for the bankruptcy bill. nt

[TheWraith]

40. She didn't vote for the one in 2005. She did vote for the one in 2001. nt

[karynnj]

66. She voted for the bankruptcy bill in 2001

Then voted against cloture (the important vote - and this was a vote to filibuster it) in 2005. She missed the vote on it in 2005, but as it couldn't be filibustered, it was going to pass anyway - Bill was in the hospital then. So, she was for it before she was against it - and the 2001 bill was a very bad bill.

[paulk]

142. the 2001 bill passed by a vote of 83-15

so Hillary was hardly alone.

It seems petty to criticize her for a vote that passed by such an overwhelming margin, IMHO.

[Lucky 13]

39. oh man.

:popcorn:

IBTL

Please put on your flamesuit immediately!

[wyldwolf]

41. simon-pure "progressives" do, but then again, you'd find fault with anyone

[bunnies]

42. And everyone who has never EVER said or done anything they regret...

has every right to ridicule her. Every one else, not so much. FFS.

[onehandle]

43. I hear from some that she dared to run against Obama.

Mostly from certain DUers.

The rest of the world is moving forward.

[Beacool]

57. Bingo!!!!!!!!!

Therein lies the constant bashing of some here. How dare she run against Obama?????? I even heard some nitwit so called historian on the radio say as much last year. This guy said that she should make way for Obama due to the historical nature of this election. Yeah, I guess we've had several women presidents and Hillary's campaign was less historical.

Unbelievable........

:crazy:

[karynnj]

68. link please - even to someone on a message board saying that

[tabasco]

97. You got a link to any posts here on DU saying that?

I think some other people asked for one too.

I never saw any, myself.

I think you're lying.

[karynnj]

67. I NEVER heard this ever - even once

If anything HRC was offended that people ran against her - she not Obama was inevitable.

[Arkansas Granny]

70. I think that's exactly what they have stuck in their craw.

[SwampG8r]

44. every link is the truth

spin twist and distort away clintonians
rewrite history with both hands to justify the cult of personality if only to each other
but these are ALL true!

[Metric System]

56. "Clintonians" "cult of personality" WHY ARE THESE ATTACKS ALLOWED HERE?

[SwampG8r]

58. clintonian

is no more an attack than jeffersonian is
or lincolnesque
you somehow see it as an attack though
what is it in the politics of clinton you feel insulted to be associated with?

[PBS Poll-435]

45. OneTrickPony strikes again!

:popcorn:

[mtnsnake]

46. Legit concerns are fine but you spend all your time trying to get everyone to hate the Clintons

and THAT IS A FACT.

[Starry Messenger]

88. LOL. C'mon.

Everyone has had time to form their own opinion one way or another. I doubt DU-ers are really a bunch of wavering reeds who go around thinking..."Oh darn, I thought I liked the Clintons. But now I hate them because of ProSense's posts." That's just a funny image to me.

Plus, the poster posts lots of stuff that sinks with no replies. Perhaps there is a certain truth in "perception creates reality" for some users here?

[AtomicKitten]

47. Blind eye syndrome is epidemic here at DU, apparently. n/t

[ProSense]

53. Apparently. n/t

[progressoid]

48. Yaaaawn

[leftynyc]

49. Why are you under the impression

that every thought that goes through your brain is worthy of a thread. And your obsession with the Clintons is bordering on the unhinged.

[cboy4]

60. What are you talking about "bordering on"?

:crazy:

[Beacool]

61. I second that.

:eyes:

[emilyg]

125. I third that.

[leftynyc]

63. I was trying polite

But I'm with you on this one. I suggested he/she get professional help.

[ProSense]

90. Because obviously those in your brain aren't.

You promised in an earlier thread that you were going to quit your stalking. I don't trust you.

:rofl:

[leftynyc]

I actually don't check each poster

when i respond. When it comes to those such as yourself, I'll have to be more careful in order not to waste my time. Thanks for the tip.

[leftynyc]

92. I actually don't check each poster

when i respond. When it comes to those such as yourself, I'll have to be more careful in order not to waste my time. Thanks for the tip.

[HERVEPA]

50. Genug (in either Yiddish or German)

[moriah]

51. There's a difference....

... between questioning a person's judgment and demonizing them. I am not of the opinion that Hillary can do nothing wrong. She has made mistakes, some that really pissed me off. I think Bill Richardson would be a better pick for SOS, just as I didn't think Hillary would be the best pick for VP.

But you come across as a person who believes that Hillary can do nothing right.

And that is a very unfair and untrue position to take or defend, and I hope you realize that. I hope that it's just an issue with the words on a screen being unable to convey your actual feelings, and not that you actually believe that she has done nothing worthwhile for this country.

Edited to fix typo.

[wyldwolf]

52. Let's see:

2001 Bankruptcy Bill - Joe Biden also voted for it
Cluster: - Joe Biden, yea

The rest? Personal and slips of the tongue. Joe Biden, anyone?

[GarbagemanLB]

55. That's different! Hillary isn't Biden!

:rofl: :rofl:


Seriously, I was really against Hillary in the primary, but some posters seem to have an unhealthy obsession with her even today.

[ProSense]

79. It's different. Biden never pretended to oppose the bankruptcy bill.

He never pretended he was against it from the beginning. He made his argument. Also, does Biden's vote for cluster bombs make them or the opposition to a ban OK?

[CoffeeCat]

54. All you need is that PNAC letter...

...to then-President Bill Clinton, from January 1998.

Link to the letter: http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

In 1998, the neocons asked Bill Clinton for war with Iraq, via letter. Bill Clinton has
acknowledged this letter.

These criminals were shopping around their precious Iraq war for years. We're
all familiar with the PNACers grand plan. They first had to get a foothold in
the Middle East, and take over a country--before they could press on with
pillaging the entire region.

Iraq was their open door. However, their problem was access. Bill Clinton rebuffed
their demands.

Then the neocons gain power with Bush. Finally, no Democrats standing in the way.
George Bush decides to go to war with Iraq, riding on the fear coattails of Sept 11.

Hillary Clinton voted for this war in 2001--knowing it was a lie. Knowing that her husband had
been solicitied for the same war in 1998.

Look who signed that 1998 letter...Bill Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard
Armitage, John Bolton, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Perle. ALL of them had gained power
in the highest echelons of the Bush Administration AFTER writing that letter.

Hillary damn well knew that war with Iraq would give the neocons their open door.
She knew what their intentions were.

Yet, she stood on the Senate floor and linked Saddam Hussein to Al Queda and warned of
massive threats against the US, if an Iraq war didn't happen.

She said NOTHING of this letter. No mention of the neocons and their nefarious plans.

That's all you need to know about Hillary Clinton.

[bunnies]

59. ANYONE could have brought attention to that letter.

Its on the frigging internet for chrissakes. Not exactly a State Secret is it. :banghead:

[CoffeeCat]

64. YES, but we're talking about Hillary....

The damn point is WHY Hillary shouldn't be in the inner circle.

She knew. She said nothing. She played along.

Plus, she's a pain in the ass. Look how she acted during the campaign.

She's a political pit bull and a game player...plus, she's a neocon enabler.

I don't want that garbage inside Obama's White House.

I want REAL change.

[laugle]

99. You left out a biggy........

911 in NY.........It was a game changer for everyone.........

You had been quite accurate in the beginning of your post, but as soon as you got to Hillary, it was more conjecture and biased opinion.....

But, I'm not really into a rehash, the question now is--where do we go from here............??

[Apollo11]

62. Nobody's perfect -- but Hillary rocks!

Barack Obama has publicly stated that "she rocks" - so it's official! B-)

[S_E_Fudd]

65. As we do with yours...nt

[QC]

69. It's not her judgment I question.... n/t

[JuniperLea]

71. Politicians with skeletons... shocking I tell you...

We will be quite fortunate if Obama gets to that ripe old age without a few. Meanwhile, we deal with what we have.

It is what it is, and Obama will appoint who he appoints. And until those who were appointed actually do something under Obama's leadership that reeks, I'm going to trust the man and his appointees. He's a lot smarter than any of us, and no amount of whining is going to change that.

[ProSense]

81. Obviously, sending Bill Clinton to the Senate is being equated with the Clinton circus.

Oh well.

[Lilith Velkor]

86. No, but spamming this board is.

As you undoubtedly know full well.

[dailykoff]

72. THESE THREE THREADS SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN COMBINED.

If that was a response to the Hillary alert squad, they need to be suspended. JMHO.

[musicblind]

73. You're not supossed to call out the mods

but a handful of people shouldn't be allowed to flood DU with anti-Hillary threads just because they hold a personal grudge. She is a democrat and likely the next SOS.

[dailykoff]

76. There is NO rule against multiple posts. You guys briefly forced one

and it was repealed, rightly so.

[ProSense]

80. Someone didn't like seeing the criticism of Hillary on the Greatest Page. n/t

[dailykoff]

87. Attacking the messenger is no way to run a discussion board.

Frankly it's counterproductive and irritating.

[ProSense]

77. It's the most bizarre thing. n/t

[JVS]

124. Alert Squad? What's this then?

[JoFerret]

74. Seems like he does

How great is that!

[harun]

75. I don't think they will be. (n/t)

[Sparkly]

78. What's the point of this?

It's all rumor, speculation, gossip, yet you're making accusations -- veiled with "could it be's" and "seems" like's -- about "these people."

What's the point of that? :eyes:

[ProSense]

82. What's the point of your comment? n/t

[Sparkly]

83. To ask what the point of this is. Is there one? nt

[ProSense]

84. Here's the point:

freedom of expression, discussion, etc.

Are you opposed to people expressing opinions you don't like, or did you think the purpose of this board is to post "amen"?

Do you believe that the article titled "Send Bill Clinton to the Senate," which I believe is a ludicrous suggestion, is an anti-Clinton piece?

[Sparkly]

85. Wow.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers.

Seems like turning gossip and rumors into MORE gossip and rumors, with the result of making more people pissed off at more other people. :shrug:

I didn't read "Send Bill Clinton to the Senate." The idea doesn't make any sense to me, though; nor does asking me that question.

I haven't been around here in a while. I guess I've missed a lot.

[Hieronymus]

89. I agree with those who say it's best to have her out of the Senate...

Ted Kennedy already told her that health care was still his issue.

[RollWithIt]

91. You know what's weird, Clinton did over 80 events for Obama, great convention, down to the wire....

And people still want to replay the primaries every day. It was pretty clear to me that Clinton & Obama hammered out there differences very quickly after the race ended. The idea that there is this great ideological divide between Obama & Hillary is quite simply a whole lot of hogwash.

[Whisp]

140. that was the very very least she could do

for that awful, vicious McCain like campaign she ran against him.

suggesting McCain was ready to lead but Obama wasn't
how speeches don't put food on the table - except the Clintons where Bill takes in almost a million a month on average.
disgusting.

soher campaigning 'so hard' is the least of the least she can do.
And many thousands, tens of thousands have worked a hella lot harder fro obama for a lot longer so this Clinton - 'isn't she special' treatment again is just a little hard to take without some vomit involved.

[greguganus]

95. Send In The Clowns! n/t

[ProSense]

96. Don't you approve?

I thought that you'd want what I want...

:rofl:

[Jennicut]

98. ProSense, is there any other topic that you talk about besides Hillary?

Its bordering on obsession dearie.

[AtomicKitten]

100. she posts all kinds of stuff - maybe you just notice the ones on Hillary

:shrug:

[Name removed]

101. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

102. Sure! Hillary's family, Hillary's friends, Hillary's household pets,

and sometimes even Hillary's hobbies!

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

103. Who the hell do you think you are questioning what I post? n/t

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TankLV]

110. Gee - ANOTHER one to notice that...huh?

only the OP just doesn't seem to see it that way...!!!

[Starry Messenger]

112. You just kicked it up several times in a few minutes. n/t

[mtnsnake]

120. If it's not about Hillary it's usually about Bill. It's mostly because of the Kerry thing

and how it's supposedly all the Clintons fault that Kerry isn't in the White House. In reality, it's a case of rabid jealousy when there shouldn't be any need for it at all, considering what great Democrats all three of them are, Bill, Hillary, and John Kerry. Like some people can't get over the primaries, some people just can't get over 2004 and accept that loss. They'd rather destroy the image of some great Democrats to build their own personal idol up, rather than celebrating what Barack Obama has just done.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

134. "In reality, it's a case of rabid jealousy "

Or it's just that not everyone adores the Clintons.

[TankLV]

106. They want competance - and HIllary fits that to a "t"...

nothing to do with "clowns" of any sort...

[terrya]

109. Yes.

Agreed.

[Deep13]

116. Only liberal hand-wringers can make this gigantic victory look like a loss.

Get a life.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Deep13]

118. .

:rofl:

[ProSense]

119. I thought it was hilarious too. n/t

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[moondust]

123. Not really/no real choice.

Lord knows there are probably hundreds of people in the State Department and on university faculties who have spent their entire adult lives immersed in international relations and who are eminently more qualified. But none has the fan base or intrinsic drive to destroy his Presidency for personal gain if not kept on a leash.

[bridgit]

126. Suppose it's good to see David Corn out on some limb somewhere, he spent allot of time...

maybe years musing 'the bush admin wouldn't do that would they?', both Clinton's continue to offer our 'free'-press-lite a hard surface off which to bounce :bounce:

[GoesTo11]

128. Lyndon Johnson expounded the benefits of the big tent

"It’s probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in." (Johnson said this about J. Edgar Hoover)

[cooolandrew]

129. Obama would have it all in hand we already know he knows how to handle>

unnecessary spectalces. I think it would run smooth as Obama always comes up roses in over dramatized situations so the clintons will work to avoid it.

[PBS Poll-435]

131. Yes

[ProSense]

133. Maybe. n/t

[lostnotforgotten]

132. Keep Your Friends Close And Your Enemies Closer!

eom

[polichick]

135. The only reason that makes sense.

[RBInMaine]

137. Hillary for Sec. of State is BRILLIANT !!

She is experienced, ready to serve, will do a good job, has earned it, and will continue to heal and unify the party.
OBAMA and not Bill or Hill is PRESIDENT ! HE will set the tone. The man just ran a brilliant campaign. He IS brilliant and knows exactly what the hell he's doing. Allow the man and team a chance ! I think he's in process of choosing a very good and smart cabinet. He will be ready to hit the ground running on day one, and that is his goal. The economy being priority #1 (not gays in the military or any of that nonsense). His a genius and damn good man. He just proved he could win bigtime nationally against bigtime odds at the outset. He's knows what he's doing. Relax !

[wyldwolf]

139. apparently so, the announcement is probably Monday