Uggh.. Franken has challeged more votes than Coleman

[Perky]

http://ww2.startribune.com/news/metro/elections/returns/2008/recount/msenco.html

there are now more challenges than there is margin between them. Can anyone say SCOTUS?

[tekisui]

1. When all the votes are recounted, what happens with the challenged votes?

Does each one go before a judge or are they just tossed?

[Perky]

2. I would assume so

there are more challenges then there is margin.....So this might take a very long time.

[blueclown]

4. The 5 member state canvassing board will decide to do with the challenges.

Many will be tossed, others will go in Coleman's column, others will go in Franken's column, etc..

As for the OP, it is not neccesarily a bad thing that Franken is challenged more ballots.

[brooklynite]

9. Franken explained this last night in NYC

Challenged ballots (for example, when multiple names are apparently marked), are sent to a special State Canvassing Board after the recount is finished.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. Down to 136. nt

[Johonny]

5. Isn't a run off election at some point a smarter idea?

[onehandle]

6. That's not in their constitution. nt

[kick-ass-bob]

10. Why?

Whoever gets the most votes wins.

I never understood the appeal of a runoff in an objective way:
1. People have already voted, stating their preferences
2. You draw from a different set of people (who is dedicated enough to decide 1 race) under a different set of circumstances
3. It costs time and money to run another election.

Of course, with point 3, you have the time and expense of recounts, but I can't believe that it is more than running another election (and the possibility of a recount after that one).

[Johonny]

14. how about

once the vote count goes into the counting error of the election it's simply scientifically impossible to tell who won.

[kath]

19. Like in Missouri - final difference between McC and O was .13 percent.The counting error is way more

than that. So no way of knowing who REALLY won, unless a recount.

[kick-ass-bob]

32. So you do it all over again to get approximately the same result?

And if it is not approximately the same result, then you have run into the "different population" factor in the second election.

If it is so close that you can't tell, then it doesn't matter to the populace of that district who the winner was.

[Johonny]

33. Most run offs only allow the two highest vote winners to run

Which generally generates a wider margin of victory. Of course a ranking election system would probably be even better...

[kick-ass-bob]

35. That's not the point. You are drawing in different people to the vote.

Its a wider margin of victory, but of a smaller subsample of people. Objectively, how is that any better?

Of course it's better for the guy who was behind, he has another shot at winning by expanding his voter base or reducing the other. But it doesn't do any better of a job at finding who the true winner is, especially of those who voted the first time, which is what you really want to do anyways.

[Johonny]

37. If people don't show up to vote the second time

I'm not sure how that matters. They get the same opportunity. If there too lazy to vote then they deserve to not be counted again. Still a ranking system election would solve a lot of these problems...

[okieinpain]

12. I think franken would win in a two man race, but that's not to be.

I'm afraid he will not be able to make up ground once it's finished.

[Hokie]

7. Don't forget the rejected absentee ballots

Franken won an injunction this week to get the details on all of the rejected absentee ballots. These could end up deciding the race before all is said and done. One article I found said that these number in the hundreds. Al may have to go to court to get these rejections over turned. If anyone has seen another way these might be handled please post the info.

[RoadRage]

36. If there is any silver lining to this..

it's that unlike in 2000 - this conversation is about a senate race, and not about POTUS... could you imagine if this was about McCain / Obama right now...

I hope Franken pulls it out - but at least we still have the majority if he doesn't.

[nyccitizen]

8. With the margin this small, it's going to come down to lawyers anyway...

The margin of victory will be within margin of human error, challenged ballots, etc. That leaves it to the lawyers.

[grantcart]

11. wow posted for 5 votes even though the count is going Franken's way?

now 136

[lojasmo]

13. Not SCOTUS

US senate.

[HughMoran]

15. Yes, Franken's people are appropriately challenging votes - uggh is not required.

A challenge is a very legitimate thing to do when their is any question as to a voter's intension. This will be sorted out later and is a good thing - Democracy at it's finest.

[Occam Bandage]

16. Why is that bad? Each challenge is a potential vote in our favor.

[CatWoman]

17. IT'S DOWN TO 130!!!!

[Hokie]

18. What page are you watching?

The Star Tribune site has not been updated.

[CatWoman]

21. yes it has

http://ww2.startribune.com/news/metro/elections/returns/2008/recount/msenco.html

Leading recount by 130 votes

Published Friday, November 21, 2008 12:09 PM

[Hokie]

24. It says 136, Same as last night.

[CatWoman]

25. refresh your page

note the date I posted from the page?

[Hokie]

26. I did.

Mine shows 136 and the date is today at 12:09 PM. Weird.

[Larry in KC]

20. Franken challenges just skyrocketed to 900

Is this intentional, to set enough votes aside (most of which will go to Coleman anyway), to be leading at the end of this round of voting? Nate at 538 was talking about that being useful, but I sure didn't expect a jump like this.

I wonder if it's even accurate? If so, I worry about a deteriorating process, in which they both begin to challenge almost every vote.

[Larry in KC]

22. I see the jump's all in one county (Renville). Is it accurate?

[PBS Poll-435]

27. Not likely

Probably another error.

On Wednesday, the Star Trib had Franken ahead because of bad data from Carver County.

[Jersey Devil]

28. Maybe a renegade nutball election official

giving all the votes, no matter what the ballots say, to Coleman? Otherwise I can't think of any reason for it. Maybe the Franken people have some explanation they will give later. They certainly should be asked about it.

[Larry in KC]

30. It WAS wrong. It's fixed now. I don't know what the problem was, though.

[LaydeeBug]

23. bfd. nt

[last_texas_dem]

29. I wonder if the "Lizard People" ballot is among Coleman's challenges

That's one they showed on Hardball last night that I truly wouldn't have known what to do with. They had filled in the bubble by Franken, and not crossed it out or anything, but had written in "Lizard People" under the "Write-in" option, and had also written "Lizard People" with a bubble filled in to the left of it above the beginning of the candidate list. The Democratic strategist on there said he would have counted it for Franken, and I usually agree with liberal counting standards, but I think that one might have just been unclassifiable/uncountable.

[ieoeja]

31. That's also how you get paid for your vote.

Albeit, this would have been a particularly stupid payee and voter. You need a specific mark in a specific place, but it should be something unobtrusive.

My grandfather was a Democratic precinct captain. He was once approached by a family who said they had been offered $10 each for their votes by the Republican precinct captain. My grandfather told them to go ahead and take it. And that he'd give them an extra $10 if they voted for the Democrats and mark the ballot in a specific manner. If he didn't see the mark when counting ballots, they wouldn't get paid by him.

So half the money they got paid to vote Democrat came from the Republican!

[yellowcanine]

34. Umm. Challenged votes simply means there wasn't a clear cut indication of voter intent so one or

the other candidate challenged that ballot. It is impossible to know how significant the challenges are. Some may be thrown out, others will be resolved in favor of one candidate or the other. The number of challenges compared to the margin between them says nothing because we don't know how the challenges will be resolved.