Will Hillary still think talking to our Enemies is naive when she is expected to do it??

[Cosmic Charlie]

How can she negotiate with Iran when she has threatened it with obliteration?

How can she represent change when her only major Foreign Policy decision was an abject failure?
She supported the War for political expediency, that is not the action of a Diplomat.

How can she be expected to carry forth Obama's Foreign Policy when she disagrees with much of it?

Didn't she truly believe that Obama is not ready to answer that 3am phone call?
Has he passed the Commander in Chief test yet, Hillary?


Where in all of this does Obama see a willing partner and team player?

[NYCGirl]

1. No. She works for Obama. NT

[Cosmic Charlie]

5. so she has relinquished all independent thought?

Hillary has her own ideas, and not all of them coincide with Obama.

She will never be able to just be a member of the Obama Team because there will always be a Clinton Team.
That much is evident.

[NYCGirl]

12. No, she can make suggestions, etc., but he is the boss. NT

[LanternWaste]

26. Independent thought allows for

Independent thought allows for compromise and re-evaluation. It also allows for the choice of followings the orders of one's boss...

[Jennicut]

2. Kerry voted yes on the war too, as well as out next VP Biden

And I have no problem with them being in power. As the PRESIDENT's SoS you do what the president asks you to do or you go away. Go ask Colin Powell.

[ProSense]

19. Kerry didn't threaten to obliterate Iran. Hillary is

no Kerry

[Moderate Dem]

31. But Joe Biden did

In a debate, when asked what he'd do if Iran got nukes, he said that if Iran had a usable missile delivery system, he'd "take it out".

I am a big Biden supporter, BTW.

[JVS]

38. But Kerry isn't as popular with "hardworking white Americans"

[eleny]

3. Bottom line is that she's an employee not a partner

[Cosmic Charlie]

10. can a Clinton ever really accept such a role is the question...

[eleny]

41. After how Obama beat her in the Primaries, I'm confident she'll know her place

[tularetom]

4. She didn't think it was naive even when she said it was

Of course she'd do it. That was all campaign bullshit design to capitalize on the naivete she perceived people would see in Obama. She didn't believe it herself but she was told to say it. Obviously he isn't naive and in fact is a lot wiser than she is. But she is a politician. Of course she'll sit down without preconditions.

[musicblind]

7. Thank you for talking some common sense!

I can't believe people believe everything they are told on campaign trails as the gospel truth.

[Cosmic Charlie]

14. now that makes sense. sounds alot like her position on the War

I, for one, want a Leader who doesn't constantly manipulate their own beliefs and sell themselves out for political expediency.

[No Elephants]

32. Respectfully, how do you know which statements of Hillary's she means and which statements of hers

she doesn't mean? That would take a mindreader.

[grantcart]

6. You do realize that this is really a highly critical attack on President Elect Obama

The President Elect actually had a much better view than you did of Senator Clinton during the debates and their marathon run. He realized that virtually all campaigns employ rehtorical hyperbole (the notable exception: his).

He has seen her up close and in detail. He saw her refusal to give up and her tenacious spirit. He saw her under fire. He knew before that she can absorb more policy detail than anyone else, except him.

He saw her overcome her disappoint of failing to reach a lifetime goal and do everything that was asked to help him get elected.


But having seen all of that you question his judgement.


I guess you think your sofa seat gave you a better perspective than his.

[jobycom]

11. I'm quite sure the OP knows that and intends that. nt

[Cosmic Charlie]

15. wrong. Obama has announced nothing. I am questioning Hillary's qualifications.

but to you who are chomping at the bit to get her in there, would prefer to accuse me of attacking Obama rather than trying to defend Hillary's positions.

[grantcart]

21. No you are wrong

The campaign has indicated that it has cleared all hurdles and that a senior Obama adviser expects the formal announcement next week.

You can read the details here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3612057&mesg_id=3612633


Beyond the formal announcement is the widely reported and confirmed remarks by the Obama administration that they are seriously considering her.


Even if you want to hang on to the fiction that she is not the likely appointee your OP is criticising even giving her serious consideration.


It is in fact an assault on the judgement of President Elect Obama - nothing less.

[Cosmic Charlie]

23. so you are still claiming leaks as official confirmation?

This OP is actually an assault on the reason of buffoons.
Those whose obsession with Hillary transforms criticism of her into criticism of Obama.

Go Thought Patrol elsewhere. I will just keep asking questions which you refuse to answer.

[grantcart]

28. There have been two weeks of leaks from both camps

No one has denied that she is under serious consideration. The OP is an attack not on only her appointment for SOS (which is not yet official) but also is an attack on her being considered for SOS.


Are you actually suggesting that you don't think that she is even under consideration for the job.


Since you seem to be logic impaired lets try real real simple.


You are attacking Hillary's consideration as SOS.


President Elect Obama is considering Senator Clinton for SOS.


In attacking Senator Clinton's consideration you are necessarily attacking Obama's judgement unless you take the position that she has never in fact been under serious consideration.



This is a discussion board. At no point did I say that you should curtail your opinion, there is no thought police action advocated.

If you don't have the strength to take the criticism when you post idiotic statements then you shouldn't participate in here.

You should expect that when you make statements that are, by logical extension, highly critical of President Elect Obama's judgement that those statements will be thoroughly demolished because they are idiotic.


Now to answer your question for the third time === official announcement nor relevant to your OP === you are criticizing her even being considered..


Did you get it this time or is it just beyond your intellect?

[joshcryer]

43. Are you serious? A barrel is leaking water through lots of little holes.

Is the barrel full of water? Use a bit of logic and comprehension skills here.

[TwilightGardener]

25. Is there anything wrong with questioning his judgment? I, for one, didn't

think his "presidential seal" at the beginning of the general election was such a hot idea, frankly. And I was right--it was proven ridiculous. He isn't perfect.

[grantcart]

29. Nothing wrong with criticising his judgement

And there is nothing wrong with my criticising the OP judgement.


But it should be understood for exactly what it is. Criticising the consideration of Senator Clinton is not just a criticism of Senator Clinton it is in fact directly critical of President Elect Obama.


He saw her up close and over an extended period. He saw all of her abilities and liabilities. I think he is making a rather well informed decision based on an indepth and extensive interaction with Senator Clinton.

[TwilightGardener]

30. I wish he had picked someone who had a long-developed acumen

for foreign policy and diplomacy, who could be low-key, competent (in an executive sense--something that Hillary has yet to prove she can do) and doesn't draw media attention. Foreign policy was my number-one priority for this election, and that's why I DIDN'T support Hillary (among other reasons).

[grantcart]

34. I understand and I agree in opposing her for President.

I worked in the UN system for 8 years and had many friends in the US diplomatic corp. I too wish that they would elevate our best diplomats into cabinet positions as they do our best generals.


Senator Clinton brings tremendous assets to SOS. I think that among the qualities that impressed President Elect Obama was her tenacious committment and follow thru. After the election you had to admire the fact that she continued against great odds. I hope that she will bring that same tenacious committment to solving the big issues in the Middle East. I suspect that is why President Elect Obama is considering her and it indicates to me that he not only wants to change foriegn policy but that he is thinking realy big and wants somebody who can handle a big challenge.

In my mind candidate Obama's most important statement was, "I don't want to simply change the policy of going to war, I want to change the mindset that leads us to war".


He knows exactly what he is doing. He is making an informed choice.

[Cha]

35. I think he's going

to change Hillary's mindset, too.

[TwilightGardener]

36. Her "tenacious committment" was to her own goals. And no, there was

nothing that I admired about her in the primaries--especially not her decision to tout herself as the choice of "white people"--I thought that was sickening. Sorry, I have yet to see her demonstrate that she can manage a bureaucracy, or develop a cohesive foreign policy, or act in a diplomatic manner beyond First-Lady politeness (look at how she treated "Judas" Richardson, for example).

[jobycom]

8. Have any of your 600+ posts EVER done anything but attack Clinton?

I just did a search of you, and can't find any. I mean seriously, work in something else now and then. You're too obvious. This is a Democratic web site, and so far all you've done is attack Democrats.

[Cosmic Charlie]

16. Can you defend her qualifications? or would you rather just focus on me?

[LanternWaste]

40. What are the precise and relevant qualifications...

What is the precise and relevant definition of a successful SoS? What are the precise and relevant qualifications? On an objective level (that is, no prognostications or presumptions on your part), what qualifications are required for the SoS position? Which qualifications does she hold? Which ones does she not hold? How can these be compared and contrasted to previous individuals who have held the position?



Are the qualification you've listed the same as Obama's? If not, why not?


You seem to ask so much, but give so little in return...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. No, she was lying when she said that.

She's very two-faced.

[Cosmic Charlie]

17. point proven.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[onehandle]

18. Do you think that Obama is stupid?

Really?

[Cosmic Charlie]

20. I think Obama is trying to eliminate the Clintons as a stumbling block.

I just disagree that putting her as SOS will bring the Clintons fully inside the Tent or make them subservient in any way.
They will just turn State into a Mini-Administration.

[RollWithIt]

22. Ok, just for clarification... the PRIMARIES ARE OVER!!!

Friends say bad things about each other during the primaries. GET OVER IT.

[Cosmic Charlie]

24. so you are saying she believed none of what she said,

and smeared a good man falsely just to get elected?
I'll pass on that kind of leader.

Obama didn't do that... and he won.

[RollWithIt]

27. Sigh.... did you miss the Convention and the General Election?

Six month nap?

[kwenu]

45. Agreed. It's time to prepare to GOVERN not continue acting like we're in campaign mode.

[tritsofme]

33. Cabinet secretaries serve at the pleasure of the President.

So I don't expect any of this to be a problem, and if it is, it won't be for very long.

[paulk]

37. ROFL

Your increasingly incoherent posts on this subject are making you look more foolish by the minute.

and that's a good thing...

[mwei924]

39. I think she was just jumpng on anything she could get on Obama at the time.

This was one area in which he offered a different opinion than everyone else, and she thought she could nail him on it.

I really don't believe that she would take the job unless she knew her rhetoric was mostly BS.

[HughMoran]

42. Crap.

full of...

[kevinds13]

44. She doesn't HAVE to take the job.

If she does, she does her bosses bidding, by CHOICE I might add...