*** Strange numbers in MN recount corrected ***

[thesubstanceofdreams]

Updated: the Star Tribune has corrected the number of challenges, adjusting the number of challenges in Renville from 476 to 2. I leave the OP below for reference:

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The number of ballots challenged by the Coleman campaign stayed almost constant in the last update, while the Franken ones have skyrocketed (they roughly doubled this morning with just 1% more votes recounted). This is in itself very strange.

But it gets worse. The bulk of the new challenges comes from the small county of Renville, where the Franken campaign, according to the Star Tribune website, challenged 476 votes (the total votes recounted add up to about 6200 for both candidates). What is worse, excluding this massive amount of challenged votes, there was almost no difference in the candidate totals (Coleman lost one vote, Franken won one). In other words, these 476 challenges are votes which WERE NOT COUNTED AT ALL IN THE FIRST COUNT ON ELECTION NIGHT.

So there are two options: (1) an error in the reporting of the Star Tribune, whatever the source of the error; or (2) a massive amount of votes which were not counted on election night have popped up and are being challenged.

Link: http://ww2.startribune.com/news/metro/elections/returns/2008/recount/msenco.html

Please post if you see any news or explanation about this. These 476 mysterious votes are more than enough to change the outcome of the election.

[Eric J in MN]

1. The totals for the candidates posted by the Star Tribune...

...are their totals from before the recount, adjusted for changes at precincts which have been re-counted (changes in which ballots were counted for Franken or Coleman.)

476 challenged votes doesn't affect those totals, because no one knows how the board will rule on those ballots on December 16-19.

If you want to see just the re-count numbers (not an adjustment from before the recount), then look on the top-left of this webpage:
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/

UPDATE: Star Tribune now reporting only two challenged ballots from Renville. Maybe the 476 number was just a mistake by the newspaper.

http://ww2.startribune.com/news/metro/elections/returns/2008/recount/msenco.html

[thesubstanceofdreams]

2. The challenged votes are NOT included in the Star Tribune reporting

Say a vote was counted for Coleman in the first count but the Franken campaign challenges it. This vote remains uncounted for now so Coleman loses a vote. That's why both candidates have LOST some votes since election night, even though some new votes are added to the count, due to the challenges

In this case, in Renville county, there is a difference of only one vote before/after the recount. IN ADDITION, there is a massive amount of challenged votes, all by the Franken campaign. THESE VOTES WERE NOT COUNTED FOR EITHER CANDIDATE ON ELECTION NIGHT, THEY ARE NEW VOTES. Otherwise, there would be a drop of votes for some candidate, but there isn't. There's undoubtedly something very strange going on.

Another way to look at it is that a huge county like Hannepin has about 250 challenges, roughly divided among the two campaigns, but small Renville has almost 500 challenges, all by the Franken campaign.

No matter how you look at it, there's something very fishy going on.

[Eric J in MN]

5. The November 18, 2008 totals are...

Norm Coleman: 1,211,590
Al Franken: 1,211,375

When a candidate makes a gain or loss relative to his opponent after a precinct is done re-counting, the Star Tribune adjusts those numbers.

But the Star Tribune doesn't adjust for challenged ballots, which will be ruled on in December.

[dflprincess]

3. I don't see where you're getting your numbers

According to the Strib's website, Coleman has challenged 416 votes and Franken 430 and only 2 of Franken's challenges come from Renville County.

[thesubstanceofdreams]

4. Correct, the star tribune has changed the numbers

See the updated OP :hi: