it's not even about Obama.

[ulysses]

It's about Bill.

I celebrated 16 years ago when BC won. Four years later, instead of the reversing of the Reagan/Bush I policies that I'd imagined was coming (naive soul that I was), he'd gifted me with a hearty distrust of the centrists in my own party that has yet to abate.

Is it fair to project that on an administration that hasn't yet taken office? Probably not, but call it lessons learned, especially in light of the Clinton alumni coming back on line. I deeply want every success for our new president, and am willing to accept progress in different forms than maybe I had considered before. But let's not have this wilted "wait until he does something worth complaining about to speak up" crap. Barack Obama is tough enough to take a little criticism from a left he might not even be hearing right now.

No naps.

[blm]

1. Thankyou - I wish I hadn't given Bill the benefit of the doubt all those years when it was apparent

he was protecting Bush and allowing his global agenda to continue unscrutinized. We should have demanded our right to open government accountable to the people at the first sign of his rollover for BushInc. I made excuses for him until I read his book in 2004 and realized he had no interest in OUR rights and showed no respect for anyone who cared about the accuracy of the historic record.

[AtomicKitten]

2. We can do so much better and I am hopeful that that happens.

[ulysses]

7. same here.

:)

[Radical Activist]

3. So when progressive policies start to fail

because the left was too busy nit picking?

Remember that division in the party was a big reason why Clinton didn't get much done, like healthcare.

I know its about Bill Clinton. I think its sad that people are letting their cynicism over the last 16 years keep them from being part of something constructive. This is partly why real change always comes from the young who aren't bogged down with all that.

[ulysses]

8. I'm going to trust most folks to recognize a decent deal

when it comes.

[JuniperLea]

12. Exactly right...

And it's clear to me that Obama is trying his best to avoid those pitfalls... and what does he get from us? Backseat driving before he even gets behind the wheel. There are too many crystal balls around here and not enough real ones.

I've been here a long time... what I'm seeing is pretty sad... and it makes me wonder why I stick around... Jeez.

[MasonJar]

4. Shut up about Bill Clinton. Good grief! After 8 years of torture you have the nerve to

continue to demean Bill Clinton...boy, do you drink the GOPer kool aid propaganda.

[ulysses]

9. I do have that nerve, yes.

I haven't yet begun to measure the realm of the possible by the "at least it isn't Bush" yardstick, and I don't intend to start now.

[high density]

5. Lesson learned? OBAMA IS NOT CLINTON

How many times does this have to be repeated? Why do SO MANY people here think Obama is SO FUCKING DUMB?

[ulysses]

10. I will say this.

I have said for years that Bill Clinton is the most skilled politician of our age. Barack Obama holds that position now.

We'll see how that goes. I'm hopeful.

[Shakespeare]

6. I hear you.

What grates on me are the snide, sarcastic, told-you-so voices-of-doom that have pretty much pronounced his administration a failure. I think THAT is what a lot of folks are reacting to; there's gotto be some middle ground where we can be thrilled to have Obama, but still keep a watchful (and accordingly critical) eye on him. I suspect some posters are sensitive to the previously mentioned snide comments, so ANY criticism they read engenders that kneejerk "SHUT UP!" response. Sigh.

I will say, though, given the way he ran his campaign, I AM willing to reserve judgment (to a reasonable degree) until he gets into office. I have no reason NOT to trust his judgment....for now. I'm "meh" about Clinton as SoS, but maybe she'll shine there. Looking at some tertiary moves--like Waxman to head Energy & Commerce in the House--makes me feel pretty good about things. He's still got enough more appointments to make that I reserve the right to come back and throw up my hands in disgust a month from now, though. ;-)

So much of the focus has been on Lincoln's political philosophy, but I think (and hope) Obama's gearing up to be more like FDR.

[ulysses]

11. fair enough.

Like I say, I'm hopeful, but part of that is a result of not being surprised that Obama isn't Che. :hi:

[Shakespeare]

14. I think a lot of people are so conditioned to out-andout war here...

...that reasonable discussion (and criticism) may not be possible, at least for awhile. And it's a shame. I don't know if it's residual behavior from the primaries, or what, but there's far too much reactionary screaming and far too little actual discourse around here lately.

And I haven't a clue how to make that better--I'll just keep sorting through the BS and keep an eye out for more thoughtful posts--like yours. :hi:

[ulysses]

15. I think that resolves

when we see substantive progress on social justice issues. I think we will see that under Obama - but without it I think the warfare continues.

And you give me way too much credit. Thanks. :)

[political_Dem]

13. Thank you for that.

We should not stay silent for the sake of the centrists in the parties. The citizens do have a right to question and comment on whom they've hired to lead them. Dissent is a vital part of democracy and should be defended. No one should be shouted down because both sides must be heard in order for changes to take place in this nation.