Kuttner on This Week: "Every time I have second guessed Obama...

[DCBob]

he has turned out to be right and I was wrong. Obama is the shrewdest natural politician in a generation".

He made that quote after he said he wished Obama had selected a few progressives for his cabinet. I hope that helps some of the angry bitter progressives become less angry and bitter. :)

[ecstatic]

1. Can anyone here step forward

and name a time when you were right and Obama was wrong? :shrug:

[DevonRex]

4. Nope. Never. Mostly I kept my doubts to myself because I'm no expert.

That's what kills me. All these folks pissing and moaning. Yet they have NO idea of all the factors that go into choosing the cabinet.

Another thing that kills me is that some people seem to want token appointments. I want a government that does it's damned JOB for a change.

[geek tragedy]

5. He was too passive over the summer when he should have

been more actively trying to negatively brand McCain. Instead, McCain's people took the fight to the Obama campaign and as a result McCain was overperforming up until Lehman Brothers went out of business.

For all of the glorifying of Obama's campaign strategy, this was a very winnable election for McCain until his suspension stunt and Palin's implosion.

[me b zola]

8. Yeah, that's what republicans say

...but what do you think?

[geek tragedy]

11. McCain was ahead before the big market implosion.

As it turned out, that event caused people to judge the candidates based on their real merits, not on bullshit.

But, McCain's people had an unsettling amount of success using bullshit and Obama's folks struggled at times to answer.

[Shiver]

12. Due to the Palin bump

Which, if I recall correctly, was already fading by then.

[FrenchieCat]

34. You are correct. They were statistically tied BEFORE the big hit on 09/15.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/whos-ahead/polling/index.html

[ecstatic]

22. Obama's lead cemented after the first debate

when McCain showed himself to be a grumpy old man who was wrong about the critical issues.

[me b zola]

24. After the gop convention bump, before the economic melt-down

...McCain was beginning to lose ground due to his many egregious lies and outrageous assertions. Even the more mainstream rw media were beginning to call him out publicly. His numbers were beginning to slide before the economic melt-down, which only accelerated his falling poll numbers. It wasn't just how horrible McCain was behaving, it was how well Obama handled all of it. People were getting a sense of who the two men are, and who they want as their leader for the next four years.


edited to add that I believe that the manner in which Obama handled the insults and lies was very much part of his strategy from the beginning.

[FrenchieCat]

35. Don't forget that Palin was on the road of self destruction.....

starting with her 9/10 Charlie Gibson Interview....

She imploded a bit before the economy. She was a big factor in McCain's loss.....barring the economy.

[me b zola]

41. Yup, then there's...her

Team McPalin was crashing before the economy did.

[bettyellen]

9. going negative is counter to his whole campaign, but LOL.. you know better i suppose.

[geek tragedy]

10. He went plenty negative after the conventions.

He ran a ton of negative ads against McCain in places like Florida.

[bettyellen]

31. for the most part he didn't go neg anything close to what reublicans did, not even close

and lots of people here are still concerned about it.

[FrenchieCat]

37. Negative is relative.....

But you knew that.

[me b zola]

32. I wasn't agreeing with the poster...

It was a bit tongue in cheek. See my follow up post. :D

[cliffordu]

14. My good buddy Pat Buchanan was saying that just the other day.

Like has every day since that 'squeeker' of an election.

If he says it often enough he might believe it.

[grantcart]

15. yeah and the thing with Clinton was a walkover

even Cliffordu could have won this thing.

[cliffordu]

21. That's right.

:rofl:

[votetastic]

27. McCain went negative way too early...

He may have done better during the summer, but by Election Day (when it really counted), he was the boy who cried wolf.

[progressoid]

18. Sure.

Off the top of my head, how about Gay marriage and coal liquefaction.

[ecstatic]

23. we still don't know what PE Obama will do regarding those issues

So far, we only know that the stances he took were effective in getting him elected. Taking a different stance prior to taking office may have caused a different outcome. BUT I suspect Obama will work to remove the gay marriage bans that have been put in place across the country.

[progressoid]

29. You asked for a time when I was right and he was wrong. I gave you two.

If he should continue to support these, he's still wrong - regardless of his (or your) rationale for doing so.

If he should reverse his support then he was wrong.

Either way. Wrong.



I gave money to get him elected, made hundreds of calls and walked miles canvasing for him, but he ain't perfect.

[dbmk]

36. See... you are making an error there

There is no evidence to prove you right or wrong.
We are not talking values here, but results. What that guys is saying is that Obama sees a way that most others don't. And he gets bashed for until, presto, problem solved.

You THINK he is wrong - but until he has acted out his plans, you can't really tell.

Especially on gay marriage I think Obama is lying his ass off. And I appreciate that, knowing the political climate.

[burythehatchet]

30. YES I CAN

When Obama referenced erroneously referenced The Jefferson's (Weesie) while he was actually referencing Sanford & Son.

[ecstatic]

33. lol! nt

[immoderate]

40. That may have been a diversionary tactic.

That may have been the move, a purposeful distraction, that put the final nail in the coffin of the McCain campaign. Without out making that "error," maybe the Obama campaign would go down in flames. :shrug:

--IMM

[ecstatic]

42. LOL. Good point. The RW media was all over that "gaffe"

and I'm not sure what they were angling for but I'm guessing it was to put forward the "he's not black enough" meme. Again. Of course, it could have backfired and gained him some more white votes lol.

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/29/gaffetastic-obama-mixes-up-his-black-sitcom-references/

[Hippo_Tron]

46. No, but Team Obama and I think alike so I was usually good at predicting their next move

[Armstead]

2. I wish Obama had selected a few progressives. I also respect Obama's smarts.

I hope, in the long run, Obama continues to surprise in a good way.

But I respect Bill Clinton's smarts, but don't like all of the results of his decisions in the past.

I believe it is vital for America's political system to rediscover the legitimact of overtly liberal and progressive positions. I believe we have to stop accepting all of the residual CONservative scams and false beliefs that have gotten America into this mess over the last 30 years.

If having a set of consistent principles and beliefs is how you want to define "angry and bitter" so be it. I'll choose your definition of "angry and bitter" over lemming-like blind acceptance any day.

[DCBob]

3. Clearly you are not "angry and bitter". There are others who seem hell-bent on sabotaging Obama..

because he did not select the progressives they wanted. Also I am not a "lemming" -- just reserving my judgment until he has a chance to do something.

[DevonRex]

6. Hear hear! I'm not a lemming either. That's a gross insult, IMO.

And what a concept, waiting until he actually DOES something before we criticize. :)

I look at it this way. The SecTreas had better know how to run the treasury. I don't care what his beliefs are on Darfur, for example. The SecDef had better be able to run the Defense Department. I don't care what he thinks about ozone levels, for example. And on and on. You get my drift here.

[Armstead]

7. Lemming may be an overstatement

Having been on DU long enough to see the patterns, what is happening now is inevitable IMO.

Generally, whenever something important happens (good or bad), people's positions here tend to fall into different camps based on basic positions. Then there is a strong action/reaction dynamic that pushes a lot of people towards hardened positions and overstatements, rather than actual give-and-take over the ideas.

Those patterns are lemming-like on both sides.

I do wish we would be more Obama-like in avoiding that kind of rigid pattern and oversimplification in our discussions here.

IMO, it is totally appropriate to criticize Obama's actions now because (again IMO) Obama IS already doing something and making decisions by his picks.If one supports those picks, fine.....But is one is bothered by some of those picks, or the general tendency they seem to reflect, that's equally fine.

In other words, it is possible to criticize Obama, while still respecting his judgement and basically supporting him and being enthusiastic about him.

[DCBob]

16. Ok. I see your point but...

there is a difference between criticizing some of Obama's decisions and slamming him for failing to live up to his promises. I suspect there is not one person happy with all of Obama's choices for cabinet but most are willing to cut him some slack and see how it all works out.

[scarletwoman]

13. Great post, Armstead, many thanks for your calm voice of reason.

Especially love this part:

I believe it is vital for America's political system to rediscover the legitimact of overtly liberal and progressive positions. I believe we have to stop accepting all of the residual CONservative scams and false beliefs that have gotten America into this mess over the last 30 years.

I'm so glad you're still around!

sw

[Shiver]

17. Just like to point out...

...as I have been trying to point out to a lot of people, not even half the Cabinet has been selected yet. There's still, by my count, ten open spots.

I would like it if people would stop acting as if every position has been filled, and with people ludicrously incompetent.

By all means criticize (I'm holding off on doing so for now), but please criticize something that has happen. If you can see the future, there are far better things for you to be doing than hanging out on the intertubes. :)

:toast:

[DCBob]

20. Indeed. I suspect Obama will pick a couple of progressives for the final cabinet slots.

Plus there are many many other important non-cabinet positions that are yet to be filled. I am sure progressives will be well represented. Obama has promised to have a diverse administration.

[Shiver]

28. I think the same

And even if he doesn't, for me, assembling a team that can get shit done and help carry out his campaign promises, no matter where on the spectrum they fall, is acceptable.

Competency trumps ideology. I'd rather have a bipartisan, full-spectrum Cabinet that gets stuff done than an entirely liberal/progressive Cabinet that can't.

Thinking about it a little more, it occurs to me that some of the names being bandied about for who people would like to see appointed may not even want the position... are we to criticize him if this is the case? (That wasn't rhetorical, it was an actual question - discuss, please, if you have something to say on the matter.)

[Mass]

19. I wished I could recommend your post.\nt

[Raineyb]

25. Perhaps if you didn't call progressives names that would help

It certainly couldn't hurt.

Regards

[DCBob]

26. Not all progressives are "angry and bitter" -- in fact I think most aren't.

But the angry, bitter ones sure are noisy.

[BlooInBloo]

38. The proxy version of that is mostly why I'm not bitching....

Where "proxy version" means: I've seen a LOT of DUers FAIL hard by second-guessing Obama.

And kudos to Kuttner for having the character to acknowledge that specific error. That's something no DUer would ever do.

[travelingtypist]

39. Watch Kuttner and Arianna smack G. Will around.

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6315870

They both nailed him to the wall for spewing the RW talking point that
the New Deal didn't work. Kuttner did it best. Will's talking point was
the example of 1937. Kuttner came back with the fact that FDR tried to
balance the budget in '37, which was the disaster.

[wisteria]

43. Nope, this won't work for me. How many chances has Kuttner had to

second guess Obama?

[ClarkUSA]

44. WTH is Kuttner and why should anyone give a damn what he says or thinks?

Thanks anyway, Al From. :eyes:

[DCBob]

45. He is a well respected "progressive".

I hope his comments would give distraught progressives some comfort.

[ClarkUSA]

47. Really? Never heard of him. Can't be that well-known.

Where are the angry, bitter, and distraught progressives you keep flogging? Any examples? Besides Faux News commentators?

Not sure what you keep snidely chortling about... :shrug:

The liberal progressives I know are enjoying the sight of the Clintons and the media pimping Hillaryland entourage behaving
obediently and subserviently towards Barack and Team O, not to mention our satisfaction at the fact that the most liberal and
"naive" candidate in the presidential race won the White House.

Obama Is 44!! Hillary is not. :party:

[DCBob]

49. Do you read this board much?

There have been dozens of posts angry about one thing or another such as Obama's cabinet picks, financial bailout policy, etc. who claimed to be progressives.

Here is information about Prospect and Kuttner: http://www.prospect.org/cs/about_tap/our_mission

[ClarkUSA]

50. I read it enough to question what you are talking about.

I just don't see evidence in my own life or among DUers of the "angry"/"bitter"/"distraught progressives" you and others keep
referring to. The fact that you can't point to a substantive list of concrete examples of leads me to believe your observations
are DLC/wingnut wishful fantasy, not obvious fact. :shrug:

Progressives are not knashing teeth or renting their rags at DU or elsewhere, believe me. Quite the contrary, they are delighted
that the most liberal member of the Senate is going to be the head of the Democratic Party and the leader of the free world on
January 20. Many can't wait for his "naive" foreign policy to be carried out by obedient minions, no matter who they may be.
It is time Republicans and Republican-lite warmongers take a back seat and follow a liberal's lead in how to deal with the world.

In other words, I believe that politics in any democracy is a game of addition, not subtraction. And I believe deeply enough
in the decency of the American people to think that progressives can build a winning majority in this country, so long
as we’re not afraid to speak the truth, and so long as we don’t write off big chunks of the electorate just because they don’t agree with us on every issue.

State Senator Barack Obama
Candidate for the U.S. Senate

Obama The Progressive Is 44!! DLC Hillary is not. :party:

[DCBob]

51. Glad to hear you are not one of those "angry"/"bitter"/"distraught" progressives.

BTW, I am farthest thing from a DLC/wingnut. You are quick to presume. I consider myself a progressive, albeit on the moderate side as is Obama and many others in the party.

[ClarkUSA]

52. But where are they?

Speaking of presumptions, your OP seems to be rather snide and somewhat specious without concrete DU examples of what
you claim are the existence "angry"/"bitter"/"distraught" progressives. Why would you falsely disparage your fellow progressives,
if you are truly one of them? :shrug:

[DCBob]

53. You really have not read any posts that have condemned Obama for not being progressive enough??

I find that hard to believe.

[ClarkUSA]

54. Give me examples of these posts, then, if they are so plentiful and obvious.

I find it hard to believe you would not do so if the existence of "angry"/"bitter"/"distraught progressives" were really true here at DU.

[DCBob]

55. Just browse around you will see them.

[ClarkUSA]

57. Uh huh. My first impression about this OP prove correct: "All hat, no cattle."

Meanwhile, Liberals and Progressives are celebrating the fact that one of their own is finally calling all the shots in the
Democratic Party while everyone else -- including the Clintons and Hillaryland -- continue to line up and fall in line,
if not in love.

:woohoo: Liberal Progressive Obama Is 44!!! DLC Hillary is not. :party:

[DCBob]

58. I am afraid to post my first impression of you. I may get banned.

:)

[ClarkUSA]

59. Best defense is a good offense, eh? Next time, try to create an OP that's truthful instead of snide.

Happy-as-a-clam progressives can't wait until the most liberal President-Elect in modern history takes office on January 20.
Millions of us will be there, a bigger inaugural audience than for any other president in American history. That's the truth.

:woohoo: Liberal Progressive Obama Is 44!! DLC Hillary is not. :party:

[kath]

48. Founder of "The American Prospect".

[BlooInBloo]

56. There's a lesson available to be learned in this for some people. Two, in fact.