Why it matters if Obama chooses Progressives for his Cabinet

[Dragonfli]

If we see, as is being predicted and is apparently happening now, that President Elect Obama chooses a Cabinet consisting entirely of "re-treads" and those who are firmly entrenched in what is known as "the Center", and even some from "The Right"... What does that mean for us, the American People? What sort of changes can we expect, and why does it matter?

Firstly, there is the very simple and obvious fact that having Progressives in the administration would bring the widest possible differing viewpoint. This is what the President -Elect said he wanted to do (as of course all formers in this position have claimed to want, at first). This is important beyond measure: With a dissenting viewpoint in the mix, a "slam-dunk" proposition is often held up for debate that would otherwise not have happened.... Allowing unforeseen factors to then be brought out into the open (the ridiculous misconceptions of the Bush people on the probable outcomes of the invasion of Iraq being a prime example of this going horribly wrong).....

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Why-it-matters-if-Obama-ch-by-Steve-Windisch-ji-081122-938.html

I have found some merit to the ideas expressed in this article, I would like to state that I am not advocating "purity" simply a balanced cabinet. I also am not "picking on Obama" as I expect to be accused of both. I am Simply offering a point of view that is often harshly criticized here. I will support my President's final decisions on the matter, but I also feel that if he only hears the views/pressure from the center/right he may not be receiving all the input he has appeared to be open to receiving from his supporters. I have voiced my personal opinions to his staff and encourage others to do the same no matter what their point of view. I shall now put on some flame-retardant garments in the hope they will not be needed

[Dragonfli]

1. Kick, Because people still think rational concerns

Are only "whining". example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7916849

Most criticisms I have heard are actually quite valid.
It does not mean people do not support the PE, nor does it mean we are not pleased with the victories we have received. Thought should not be so discouraged or ridiculed as would appear to be the case.
Lock step is not now, nor has it been in my recent memory, the method within our party, leave that for the GOP.
I will take my large tent critically thinking Democratic party thank you, I have no support for the kind of change that does not allow for criticism.

[cali]

11. k&r for a perfectly reasonable, well expressed post

it's not as important to me as it is to you, but you expressed it well.

[BlooInBloo]

2. Will you also make a post expounding the GLORIOUS virtues of a team of all WH rookies?

Thanks - I'll keep my eye out for it.

Obama's the man with the vision. He mostly just needs people who are skilled at *implementing* policy.

[Dragonfli]

5. Yes - He made Several Comments About Experience Trumping Judgment

Also about the old politics and politicians having all the answers.
:rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

6. (shrug) Well at least he's consistent in his idiocy.

[Zodiak]

7. This is a strawman

The OP simply says some progressives...it does not say all progressives, nor does it qualify any by demanding that they are inexperienced.

Please be more intellectually honest when engaging someone who begins the discussion reasonably. This will further the conversation that needs to take place.

[BlooInBloo]

12. No, it's not. You don't like one coach? Fine. Until you tell me who you're replacing him with...

you haven't told me a DAMN thing.

[Zodiak]

21. Two strawmen in a row

Since when did I ever imply that I did not like Obama?

You are making no sense.

[BlooInBloo]

22. Ah. My bad on the ambiguity of the example....

I didn't mean coach-cum-leader (by analogy with Obama, I believe is the way you - quite reasonably - took it). I only meant coach-cum-someone-you-might-want-to-replace. It's something of a commonplace crossed with old wives wisdom in sports.

[EFerrari]

3. K&R

[FrenchieCat]

4. It is not the "Who" beyond Barack that will make the difference, it is the "What"......

When we lose sight of the issue and hang our hats on the individuals under President Barack Obama, then we will become as bad an enemy to the good as the media has become.

We voted for Barack Obama.....not his then imaginary cabinet.

As well, to treat Hillary Clinton, Bill Richardson, as well as a slew of others as though they are Bush Cabinet worthy is an exaggeration that will not serve us well.

I discuss this here ---> http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7916579&mesg_id=7916579

[Dragonfli]

8. True and False

I still trust the man, but using your logic he could appoint anybody because who they are matters little. Sorry to disagree with you, but I do.
I have nothing against you but I do believe you are mistaken.

Don't worry, he is a big boy and can take criticism, it seams that only others can't abide by it.

[Zodiak]

9. Others can

Just keep the dialogue steady and reasonable, and people will make up their own minds regardless.

[Dragonfli]

10. That is all I ever expected, or would wish for. NT

[FrenchieCat]

13. But he is not appointing just anybody, and therein lies the rub.

[Dragonfli]

14. This I think is the point of our disagreement

I agree he is not appointing just anybody, I also think that if the "rumors" are correct, and they may very well not be. The cabinet would lack a certain balance. I think it would be healthy to have the left as well as the center and right of our party at the table, more ideas for him to consider. It is only my opinion and I have expressed it where it matters (to him). I would simply prefer that others do the same, even if they would prefer something entirely different than I would.

In all fairness, as a person that believes largely in ideas expressed on the left I would be disappointed if none of those voices were represented, but I would not abandon a great leader like Obama over it. Only bad policy on his part could accomplish that.

Our disagreement in no way invalidates my respect for your opinion, but I will admit it would be very difficult for you to dissuade me from my "lefty" ways or thoughts on governance, nor could you easily persuade me that the DLC has my best interests in mind as a low income working class individual.

[FrenchieCat]

15. I'm not a DLCer, and have never been.

I'm in Berkeley, and when asked, I respond that I am a French Socialist.....
But in reality, I am a Democrat in good standing who protested against Bush in
a San Francisco March BEFORE 9/11.

I also consider myself as a true progressive,
which means keeping my mind open,
and allowing new ways of thinking
to be included on whatever subject there be.

Sorta of like Barack Obama, in there here letter where he discusses the DLC,
and the fact that he is not a member thereof.
http://www.blackcommentator.com/48/48_cover.html

[Dragonfli]

16. I never thought he was.

I was more concerned that they may end up being over-represented along with other centrists that agree with them on policy. I believe they should have a place at the table as well - just not overwhelmingly. That is an excellent link you supplied by the way, I read that article this morning.

I suppose I thought you were more of a centrist (not necessarily DLC) because they seem to be rather against calls I have seen here to include progressives in the cabinet.
Many have argued incoherently that they are the grownups and only they can be trusted with power. I apologize for seeming to group you with them, that was not my intention, I just was being honest about my own leanings.

There is a certain hawkishness and pro-corporate mentality that has been argued as "centrist" that concerns me as a working class guy that does not believe in pre-emptive war. I do not believe all in the DLC are this way, but have met many that are. I also do not believe that all non DLC people are free of such opinions, but many are.

So far in this thread you have behaved nothing like that. It actually sounds more like you agree with me that new ways of thinking should be included and should therefore understand why I would like to see more progressives to balance a finalized cabinet.

[FrenchieCat]

17. I believe that we have just been liberated.......

and I think that this will take time to sink in.
I also believe in treating others the way that I want to be treated.
19 Days from election is just not enough time for me no matter what,
unless I'm gonna call myself unreasonable, and I don't want to do that.
The cast of characters is not as important as the producer, the script and the director in my view.
Patience is a virtue that I have been practicing for 8 years now.
Waiting a few more months won't make a bit of a difference to me.....
even if I can barely afford my Health Care insurance, and my business has lost 40% of its revenue
in the last 3 months.

I have hope now, and it will most likely
have to be snatched out of my dying hands, I suppose.

This is what I know till I see otherwise: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7917437&mesg_id=7917437

Those who want to put a premature damper on what I feel I have to look forward to
are not folks that I will seek out for the time being.

[Dragonfli]

18. I also have hope - I do not think you should give it up!

It is a good thing. I simply wish to maintain my dreams as well.
And I believe the players can make a difference between a hope and a dream.
The right leader is the best start, and on this we will agree!

[bvar22]

19. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

:dem:

[Dragonfli]

27. A Kick Is As Good As A Nod To A Blind Man!

I don't know why that phrase popped into my head, it just did.

[LWolf]

20. K & R. nt

[Breeze54]

23. Well Stated and Thank You, Dragonfli!

:dem: & Recommended

[Dragonfli]

25. Thank You for the compliment.

[Sunnyshine]

24. K & R - Very well said. Thank you. A balanced cabinet should absolutely include progressives.

Nothing to do with purity- it is about equal opportunities of holding office and having representation within our government.

[Dragonfli]

26. It seemed important to discuss - Thank you for reading and the K&R

[onehandle]

28. Who do you suggest?

Who instead of who? Let's see the list.

[Dragonfli]

30. You Missed the Point Of My Post, But A Fair Question Nonetheless

I would require a list of resumes, a staff for vetting and a bit of time if I were to presume to choose my presidents cabinet for him, I have not presumed any such thing and merely expressed a desire for his team to consider offering some posts to qualified non-centrist.

You will understand that it will take me some time to make this list for you considering that I have no staff will you not?

I believe you are less concerned with "my personal picks" than you are with trying to pick a fight - but I do not wish to raise to the bait.

I will instead supply you a list, but only if you realize that it is not really something I would have chosen myself to do and will probably not be as thorough as one that could be offered by a more qualified individual seeking to add voices from the progressive wing of the party.

I would like to add that in calls to his staff I did not presume to choose the individuals so much as encourage them to consider some of the many qualified individuals that could help provide a progressive perspective.

I imagine by your question you would have done it differently, perhaps by demanding "so and so" be chosen. Unfortunately I lack such arrogance and will only offer a list of suggested alternates for you and you alone who has demanded it of me. I do not expect it do be anywhere near as thorough as his staff can, and possible has done for him.

Give me two or three hours to do a half-assed vetting. I know this is a trap, but oh well.


spelling edit

[Dragonfli]

31. Secretary of Agriculture

Michael Pollan http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Pollan
Wes Jackson http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Jackson
Jim Hightower http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim%20Hightower
Lester R. Brown http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester%20R.%20Brown

This is going to take longer than I thought.
Got twelve windows open + reading the detailed info takes time.
I will continue for a few more hours, but may not be finished today.
Also I have to work later tonight, Tomorrow afternoon as well.

I don't know why you felt I would have time to do all this for you, you definitely will owe me.

[Dragonfli]

32. Secretary Of Commerce

Paul Krugman http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul%20Krugman
Robert Reich http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert%20Reich
Hunter Lovins http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter%20Lovins
Bernie Sanders http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie%20Sanders

I know very little about commerce, but did my best.
Again, I could use that staff with the resumes I asked for!

[Dragonfli]

33. Secretary Of Defense

Franklin C. Spinney http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_C._Spinney
Max Cleland http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max%20Cleland
Ron Dellums http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron%20Dellums

[Dragonfli]

35. Secretary Of Education

Linda Darling-Hammond http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda%20Darling-Hammond
Marian Wright Edelman http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian%20Wright%20Edelman
Marshall Rosenberg http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall%20Rosenberg
Howard Zinn http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard%20Zinn


Couldn't resist putting Howard on this one.

[Dragonfli]

36. Secretary Of Energy

Al Gore http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al%20Gore
Rep. Jay Inslee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Inslee
Amory Lovins http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amory%20Lovins

I have to go to work now.
As you have noticed by my lists thus far, I have by no means chosen options by specific labels, in fact some have no labels. You will also notice however, if you spend the time researching them, that progressive thought and works within the scope of of the positions have been a pre-requisite.

I will get to Kucinich in good time so you will at least have something to make fun of me for.

Next time do your own homework if you would like to know if there are capable progressive thinking people available for post consideration.

I am not here to do your homework for you.

[Runcible Spoon]

29. thanks for this, knr.

[Dragonfli]

34. Thank You for taking the time to consider the post.