Like a spoiled children at Christmas are the Obama critics!

[quinnox]

How many damn presents you all want!?? What the hell, you want a Ferrari under the tree instead of a Lexus. Like a spoiled children at Christmas is what all the raging Obama critics remind me of. Wake up and enjoy what happened!!

This is a historic opportunity and victory, the Democrats are rolling!

See the forest instead of a single tree you don't like, damn.

[QC]

1. Yoda, is that you? n/t

[last_texas_dem]

17. Unquestioning trust of political leaders not make one great.

[QC]

27. Why America hate you do? n/t

[mkultra]

67. neither does premature questioning

[last_texas_dem]

72. Who's doing that?

[mkultra]

77. you must not be paying attention.

hes not president and has made zero policy decisions yet the boards are full of "constructive criticism"

[last_texas_dem]

78. Would discussion of the lame duck incumbent president somehow be more relevant

than discussion of the man who's going to be president for at least the next four years?

[Truth2Tell]

2. a spoiled children

I is.

[QC]

3. Is our children learning? n/t

[Bucky]

47. Well!,!? AM they??!?

Bizarro not understand

[roguevalley]

63. bored sideways, net nannies I am. SIGH! free speech, remember I did.

[EFerrari]

4. Some people manage to keep thinking right through the primaries,

the donations and the election. :wow:

[L0oniX]

5. flame bait

[Zodiak]

6. This thread is unhelpful nt

[Skittles]

44. idiots who cannot stand any criticism

remind me freepers

[treestar]

58. It seems rather constant, not just occasional

And right after the win, before the inauguration!

[mkultra]

thats odd

because the constant obama bashing is what reminds me of freepers.

[Skittles]

73. if all someone does is bash Obama, then yes

but plenty of others offer constructive criticism and are slammed by the worshipers

[mkultra]

76. yeah, constructive criticism is, at this premature point,

really just bashing.

[bluestateguy]

7. We have people here who couldn't spend five minutes celebrating the victory

They started bitching the day after the election, making demands and finding something, anything, to whine and complain about.

I do not expect to always agree with this president, but it might be a good idea to give him some space and wait until, you know, he actually becomes president before passing judgments.

[quinnox]

9. Im not surprised

Some of these people don't seem happy unless they have something to bitch about.

[Jennicut]

10. Wait, am I supposed to stop celebrating? I am still drinking beers.

[lapfog_1]

16. Right now is the BEST time to be "critical"

or rather, to have our voices heard. After the names and policies are in place and Obama is sworn in, he cannot simply undo what's done because that would give the appearance of wishy-washy flipflop non leadership.

So if he proposes tax cuts for the middle class to be paid for by tax increases on the high income earners, now is the time to make sure that his people hear that this is what we expect. Otherwise, his new bi-partisan economic team is going to hold sway and we hear things like the announcement today from Axelrod that the Bush tax cuts may be allowed to expire two years from now, rather than next year. We need to counter the influence of Summers and Rubin who are probably offering Obama the opinion that "now is not the time to raise taxes on anyone" because "higher taxes, even if only on the wealthy, will deepen the recession" which is WRONG. Now is the EXACT time to raise taxes on the wealthy, we need their money in circulation... and given the current woes in the economy, they aren't investing or spending their money. We are going to have to do it for them.

[EFerrari]

24. Because once the cabinet is in place and problems arise

will be the best time to head them off.

[FrenchieCat]

8. Seeing the big picture is an art,

that not all are gifted with.

This man will attempt to deliver on his promises, I am confident of that.
Whether he will succeed will depend on him, and yes, on us.

[quinnox]

13. Obama is going to be amazing

I agree with you.

[Fed_Up_Grammy]

11. I agree ! Bitchin' is like oxygen to some folks but very tiring

to the rest of us.

[otohara]

12. Democrats Rolling Over

starting off with Joe Lieberman

[scarletwoman]

14. Pfft... We got him elected, we have every right to hold his feet to the fire, and that's exactly

what I intend to do.

I remember how the left relaxed after Bill Clinton got elected, and look where it got us -- more corporatism, more domestic policing, NAFTA, DOMA, looser financial and media regulations... the list goes on.

"Won't get fooled again" is my motto, and I'm sticking to it.

sw

[11 Bravo]

15. "Pfft"? Did you just fart?

[scarletwoman]

22. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

[L0oniX]

25. Totally agree with ya ...actions speak louder than words.

I'll never forgive Clinton for bringing the party to the right and causing us to loose seats in the house and senate, NAFTA, deregulation, a failed welfare policy, failing to take defensive measures and protect NY after the first attack of the NY trade buildings, failing to track down and stop Osama and of course ...forcing parents to have to deal with questions from their children as to what oral sex is. During the primary Obama was always putting Clinton with the usual gang of old Washington insiders claiming that he would bring change. Bringing in a lot of old Clinton cronies and war hawks back is not what I call change and makes him out to be a hypocrite.

No excuses ...do what you said you were going to do ...Obama!

[Jennicut]

35. Fooled again? Huh? Clinton was totally DLC and centrist all through his campaign

He was a welcome change from the first Bush in my opinion. At least he cared what happened domestically. Obama is slightly more to the left then BC but who knows until he takes office. We need to see first.

[Truth2Tell]

39. Yep, as long as he's better than Bush that's good enough for me.

Just kidding. That would be absurd.

[Raineyb]

61. Clinton ran as a progressive then turned rightward after he was elected

I will not have that happen again.

Regards

[Bucky]

46. You're talking about the right to petition the government. Petition is an archaic form of "bitch at"

And yes, it's entirely the right and obligation of American citizens to gripe at the government to get things to go our way. As the Framers put it, "let ambition check ambition." If we can't criticize our Democratic president, we're basically just liberal Republicans.

[scarletwoman]

55. Even more than that, I'm talking about "the consent of the governed".

One of our country's founding principles. If I disagree with something, I damn well will express my witholding of "consent".

sw

[treestar]

60. Does that really help?

Or does it, in the long run, backfire against you, though emotionally satisfying?

[scarletwoman]

65. Does what really help what? Could you be more specific about which part of my post

you're asking about?

In the meantime, I'll offer a general answer:

Yes, it helps a democracy for the citizens to actively push for what they want their government to do, and to actively push back against what they don't want their government to do.

Hopefully, that clears things up for you.

sw

[mkultra]

69. sounds like your motto should be

"you fool me you cant fool me again"

[davidpdx]

75. Holding his feet to the fire, yes that's acceptable

bitching about every small thing is just ****ing annoying (excuse my French). Unfortunately, we have a small number of people on here who want to tear Obama down even before he takes office.

Bitching about every goddamn cabinet position will get people no where. People whining about that he catered the this group, but not to this group because of supposed pressure will not get people anywhere.

People who bring out the messiah mantra from the primary and pretend their Democrats should be booted (and that response isn't to the one above this, but another poster in the thread.

[Political Tiger]

18. I have to agree with you

I mean, the man has not even been sworn in yet!

[Breeze54]

19. Obama welcomes it. Why don't you? - 'Obama's Response To FISA Critics:...'

Obama's Response To FISA Critics: A Vital Exchange With An Empty Center

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/07/obamas-response-to-fisa-c_n_111256.html

SNIP--->

Of course, it is also that level of citizen involvement that gave rise to Obama's response to his FISA critics. Last week, at Obama's social networking site, MyBarackObama.com, a group urging Obama to "Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity" became the "largest self-organized group" on the site. It couldn't be clearer that this was the tipping point that necessitated Obama's response.

There is a lot of virtue here, and the candidate can be credited, at the very least, for having created the environment for this sort of exchange to take place, and honoring his commitment to it. This level of openness, and responsiveness, marks a stark contrast to the Bush administration, who were always happy to ignore the concerns of Americans (even when they're engaged in the act of drowning). And it's especially gratifying to see that Obama is willing to speak to the public without the condescending, hectoring tone that President Bush deployed - the way an overcaffeinated Ayn Rand might speak to a two-year-old.

Furthermore, by allowing this level of in-your-face accountability, and responding to it with seriousness, Obama does a great service to those who tirelessly seek to advocate for progressive causes. It sends a clear message that the Obama White House will neither credit, nor seek, sycophancy, and that intelligent criticism won't be swept under the rug for the sake of making things easier on the candidate. All of this is a great good and a marked change from politics as usual.

More....

[BlooInBloo]

20. I think of it more like Veruca Salt from Willy Wonka, but yah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU7nG3KvZDA

[Warren Stupidity]

21. Another missive demanding that we shut up.

Sorry. No thanks. Where are the Democrats rolling to, exactly? Or is it once again just Team Red vs Team Blue and it doesn't matter as long as 'our' team is winning?

[TK421]

23. Yes...we need to put food on the family

We got an issue in America...too many good docs are going out of business...too many OBGYNs aren't able to practice their, their love with women across the country!

[mkultra]

70. and too seldom we ask

"why aren't you at your post?" :)

[tkmorris]

26. There is no need to be so insulting

Internet anonymity notwithstanding. You may agree or disagree that criticism is in order where Obama is concerned but your rhetoric is uncalled for in either case.

[Zombie2]

28. I just need him to deliver on his promises...

i.e. raise taxes on those making more than $250,000.00 a year.

[mkultra]

maybe you should wait until hes actually the president

[Dragonfli]

29. The Gifts Are Wonderful - However I Am a Democrat, not a child

So I do not believe in squashing criticism, nor do I think democracy thrives in a dissent-free environment. There is a political party that agrees with you however...
Hero worship will not help a good leader lead, you see, my PE is also not a child and would not wish to silence critics.

[JimWis]

30. There is nothing wrong in criticizing the president - After he becomes

president. As far as cabinet picks, tax promises, whatever, I will wait until Obama himself announces his final decisions. Up until now it has been speculation, rumors, supposed leaks, etc. I don't believe everything that I hear or see in the media.

[Dragonfli]

31. Actually I agree with you.

I have expressed my opinions to his staff because I really believe he will take everything into consideration before making these final decisions and because he asked for input.

The time to offer him opinions on his cabinet choices is now.

I will wait to see what his final decisions are, and then will probably only concern myself with policies that are not as promised, no matter who populates his cabinet.

I do not believe he will allow himself to be bullied by the hawks that hang around the office.

[Two Americas]

38. when else?

What other reasons are there for not tolerating dissent?

We were told that dissent was to be discouraged until the election. I have no doubt that there will be a new set of excuses after the inauguration.

Once the habit of discouraging dissent is formed, it is difficult to break.

[Two Americas]

32. respond to the messages

Respond to the messages, and do not attack the messenger. You have attacked a wide range of people here with ridicule and invective.

Do not judge the individual by the group, nor the group by the individual. Not all "Obama critics" - as you see it - are the same.

The combination of the attacks on the messengers and the generalized grouping of any and all people who may disagree with you on anything into the same category, is highly reactionary and authoritarian.

This is destructive to the community here and to the discussion, is contrary to the traditional principles and ideals of the party, and undermines and sabotages the potential success of the new administration as well.

[BeFree]

34. The point is....

That some posters seem to be critics just for the sake of being critics. Everybody's got one and if all we do is sling it around then expect some blow back.

Really, what is there to criticize and expect the criticism to carry weight? Some of us worked our asses off to get Obama elected. Then we turn around and hear all kinds of criticism that he didn't pick the right person. Well, maybe he did, and if he did we'll know soon enough. But Obama has our trust, that's why we worked to get him elected, and if he wants Joe Blow to do this or that, he deserves the right to pick Joe Blow.

Basically, most of the criticism here could be found coming from freeps, and some of us don't like it. And, by Gawd, we don't have to sit here and let it be. We object!

[Two Americas]

36. they have that right

I trust that the new administration will listen to dissent - that is why I and millions of others DID work to get them into power.

Most of the criticsm here is coming from the political left. It is a smear, and an example of the problem, to say "most of the criticism here could be found coming from freeps."

No one is asking you to "sit here and let it be." Express your opinion. Argue back about the message, not about the messenger.

[BeFree]

40. The message

....seems to be that the messengers know all there is to know, and that they are smarter than Obama, 'cuz Obama fucked up picking Joe Blow.

So the messenger, as far as we can tell, is full of bs just like freepers. So what we do is protect, yes, are protecting our investment in Obama.

You can get down in the dirt and fight the pig, but the pig is the only one happy to do so. Best just to poke the pig from a distance.

To be fair, what message can you remember that is more than just bitching and comes from a stance that could possibly improve upon what Obama has done, keeping in mind Obama's position, of course.

[Two Americas]

41. no qualifications

Freedom of speech does not depend upon being "smarter" than the rulers.

Not all of the people you are smearing are the same. Your "freeper" charge is malicious, unsupported and illogical. Freepers would not want the administration to move to the Left.

What you are asking for is incompatible with a free society and a representative democracy.

I support people's right to give their opinion without being maligned and smeared regardless of whether or not their opinion "is more than just bitching and comes from a stance that could possibly improve upon what Obama has done."

[BeFree]

42. Umm

There is no grand free speech here on DU.

Of course, call Obama and tell him what you think, just don't come into this venue and shit on the man without expecting us to nail your ass to the wall. That is our argument.

[Dragonfli]

48. Poor argument + incorrect analogy.

If you do not believe in free speech you are on the wrong board, also you are quite insulting to posters - one of the only restrictions on a board you seam to feel you own.

Argue the merits or lack thereof for goddess sake and stop being such a nasty generalizing prick to those that disagree with you.
If you try that, you may convince some people to agree with you rather than trying to demand that they do (a tactic that seldom works I might add).

That is all...

[Two Americas]

49. sure there is

I have never seen so many calls for qualifications and restrictions on freedom of speech - not here, not now, not about this, not about that, not until, not before, not by this group, not if.

[Patchuli]

33. You got that right!

Just when we need to keep the unity and build the party, people are whining over the future which no one can read just yet. For pete's sake, can we just enjoy our victory and let this unfold?!

[BlooInBloo]

37. And what's with the Yoda-talk, anyway?

:rofl:

[and-justice-for-all]

43. I am not going to be as the bush/repuke supporters are/were...

I am willing and perfectly comfortable dissenting the person I helped get elected, as every one should be. Do I expect him to do everything I would like him to do, NO. That is just being a fool..

I can admit to error unlike the repukes who think that everything that they do and touch turns to gold, even when it is blowing up in their face.

Dissent is patriotic.

[Bucky]

45. "How many damn presents you all want!??" I tell you how many I do all want!!1!

!!!eleven!!1!!!!2one!

That am how many, Bizarro Soopermans!

[Two Americas]

50. advocacy for the people

Advocacy for the people, especially the poor and left out, and asking that they have a voice in the direction of the new administration - which is what most dissenters and critics are calling for - is trivialized by characterizing it as "spoiled children" wanting something petty for themselves personally.

By using derogatory and malicious descriptions for the opinions of those with whom you disagree, you are encouraging - to say the very least - the members to discount and dismiss those opinions without giving them a fair hearing. That is an attempt at obstructing and restricting the free exchange of ideas.

[slay]

51. *Yawn*

Another one of these threads. Sigh.. :eyes:

[scarletwoman]

52. You know, the insulting tenor of your post aside, the FRAME you're promoting is utterly wrong.

Our elected officials are OUR servants. We are not suppliants begging favors from a monarch, we are citizens of a democratic republic demanding that those in whom WE have entrusted the power to act on our behalf, actually DO act in our behalf.

It's not asking for "gifts" from our elected officials to demand that they be responsive to those who elected them. WE are the ones who gave THEM the "gift" of our trust.

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

sw

[gordianot]

53. Barack Obama is entering the greatest single mess any President elect has ever faced.

He is facing nothing less than survival of our Republic in the midst of both war and world wide economic collapse.

I for one will consider his administration a success if we can avoid starvation in America in the next 4 years.

[Runcible Spoon]

54. this thread is new and interesting

oh wait...

[Gregorian]

56. I was riding my bike along today thinking "We've got a Harvard grad in the WH."

Damn.

And so is Michelle.

Everything is irrelevant. Just bask in the glory.

Tonight I've mostly been listening to AWB. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQZc0E_WWKU

[QC]

62. Bush is a Harvard grad. Yale and Phillips Andover, too.

He's still dumber than a box of hammers.

[Gregorian]

64. He's from Harvard like he's from Texas.

But you do make a good point.

Scalia got the highest scores of anyone I've heard of before. All A's. I guess there's more to life than grades.

[AZBlue]

57. Good analogy.

I only got four lego sets, not five.
Her doll's hair is prettier than mine.
The track for my new electric train isn't long enough, I wanted it ten feet longer.
My Wii only came with seven games.
Wah, wah, wahhhhhhh.

[mkultra]

59. intelligence is more like a race and less like a democracy

someone smart usually gets to a decision first. The stupid mass will eventually disagree in unison. even in our upper intellectual tier we have tranches.

[Skwmom]

66. It is the forest (big picture) that;s worrisome. Each act alone, maybe not such a big deal.

But when you sit back and look at them in the aggregate you can only say "remind me which party won in November?"

[democracy1st]

68. the same people that were acting a a.. during the primaries

I could see going off 6mos to a year after he's in office

[iamthebandfanman]

71. yeah, insulting people always helps.

gotta love how people react to these so called obama haters... by slinging insults, not trying to have a discussion.

[happychatter]

74. they were on the other side of the fence four months ago doing precisely the same thing

they're ba-ack

[FlaGranny]

79. 99% of this is NOT coming

from people who ever supported Obama or any other Democrat. You wonder if they have any other reason being here than to sow discontent. The stated purpose of the board is to support Democrats. They survive at this web site by not ever going too far, but just far enough to annoy Democrats. Some have been around a long time. What they really want is an extremely progressive NEW party. Lots of luck with that.

[Mass]

80. I've seen a lot more threads attacking so-called Obama bashers than threads by Obama bashers.

May be this is the problem?

[Bake]

81. I want my PONY, dammit!

:rofl:

Bake

[Runcible Spoon]

82. wow that was really stupidly unfunny the first 1,000 times someone posted it

and even stupider now that people are rofling at their own lame jokes. Sad really.

[Bake]

83. Apparently you got yours already.

Or else you didn't and you're really pissed off about it.

My apologies for cluttering up YOUR forum with my lame joke. Your username says it all, as far as your online persona. Farce.

Bake