The Official "Nothing Is Ever Good Enough" Thread - check in

[zulchzulu]

It appears that even with the most historic election in a century or more, we now are whining about Obama not changing this or appointing that or appointing this while not appointing that. Granted, it's over 50 days before he's actually going to be sworn in as President. But somehow, the stock market craziness is now his fault. The wars still continue. The appointments don' make EVERYBODY happy...

So let's just whine and moan. Nothing's ever good enough. Like T.S. Eliot wrote in "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock":

But as if a magic lantern threw the nerves in patterns on a screen:
Would it have been worth while
If one, settling a pillow or throwing off a shawl,
And turning toward the window, should say:
“That is not it at all,
That is not what I meant, at all.”

http://www.bartleby.com/198/1.html

Granted, getting Obama into the White House is only Step One in what needs to be done for this country and the World. But micro-bitching about the Obama administration almost two months before he's going to be president is a bit... tedious.

[tabatha]

1. yep, tedious.

[BlooInBloo]

2. I want it NOOOOWWW daddy!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU7nG3KvZDA

[jefferson_dem]

7. Precisely.

I can't believe so many knee-jerk, self-centered, "I want it nowwwww daddy" posts lately. Some folks just can't stand success...

[BlooInBloo]

8. Hmm.. Apparently I've been in the Dept of Missing The Forest For The Trees too long...

Thanks for turning the light on as to what my new pithy one-liner phrase should be, now that "we're doomed" has been put out to stud.

[enigmatic]

3. Complaining is the real National Pastime

Always has been.

[enigmatic]

4. dupe n/t

[cliffordu]

5. Yep. Let's swear him in and THEN snivel.

[Supply Side Jesus]

6. Your thread doesn't have the range it should merit

You need to think bigger god damn it! What's wrong with you!
Then you quote T. S. Eliot! Any real poster would have drawn from the works of Shakespeare!
Bunch of god damn fascists here!!!


:sarcasm: ;)

[last1standing]

9. Why should it be 'good enough'?

Personally, I don't have that many problems with Obama's moves so far (some but nothing too major), but if we sit here and just keep quiet when we disagree with him, are we doing anyone any favors? Obama's a very smart, capable guy, but he's not perfect. He makes mistakes and hopefully learns from them. The problem is he won't know he's made a mistake if no one tells him, will he?

Yes, there are people posting anything they can to complain about Obama but I'm more concerned with those who try to shut down every opposing viewpoint with vapid or incendiary remarks. They're the ones really hurting DU.

[Ozma]

12. Because, um, Obama is a human being? You thought you elected your own

personal God?

I don't know why you deserve any thing better than Obama's best opinions, best choices, and best strategies for dealing with his administration.

Did you agree with everything Obama said in his campaign speeches, literature, and the way he got himself elected?

If so, perhaps commenting upon his choices for team-mates before they even take a position on the team, perhaps, is a bit hasty of you?

[last1standing]

20. Um, could you make any less sense?

I don't even understand how your diatribe fits in with what I posted. I like Obama, but disagree with some small moves, so I thought he was my personal God? It's just stupid. Sorry but it really is.

[Bicoastal]

22. Evening last1standing...

...and before you ask, yes, I'm doing better today. Onto the topic at hand...

It's funny, I don't think any of us mind solid, well-founded criticism of Obama, seriously. But when you start talking about regretting your vote, switching parties, joining the GOP (as some did last night)--that's ridiculous. Obama has done NOTHING to merit that kind of talk, but to some, you'd think he had been fingered in a major Watergate-like scandal. And I think it was such an extreme reaction that a lot of us reacted extremely back.

Criticize, fine. But let's try to keep it proportional.

[last1standing]

30. I'm glad your feeling better.

And yes, every example you posted is worthy of some massive blowback, but other people aren't doing that but are still being lambasted. I'm just trying to stand up for those people, not the obvious trolls.

[BeFree]

13. Opposing viewpoints

Why are there any opposing viewpoints? Aren't we all happy Obama got elected? Really, there should be no viewpoints in opposition to that election, eh?

What really hurts DU is that some here feel they can just complain and criticize and then not want to listen to complaints or criticism that blow back on them.

[last1standing]

19. Can't I be happy that Obama was elected but unhappy with some of his decisions?

What really hurts DU is the fact that some posters don't seem to be able to grasp that concept.

[BeFree]

26. Sure be unhappy

But don't expect any of us to just let you spread your unhappiness here without getting blow back.

You can't have it both ways. That is the problem. And don't even tell me how I should or shouldn't act or censor myself or remain silent when I see something I don't like. If you slam Obama in any way that makes me unhappy, you're gonna here from me.

[last1standing]

29. Do you believe it's physically impossible for Obama to make a bad decision?

Or do you just believe his decisions should be backed up even when wrong?

We just had eight years of hearing that we should shut up and leave if we don't support every move our president makes and I'm not willing to go along with that concept now anymore than I was then. I'm very, very happy Obama was elected, but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit silently for the next four years and adore his every move.

You're very free to criticize my criticisms, I very well might be wrong, but it would be nice if you could provide honest reasonings behind that criticism instead of just personal attacks (which I'm seeing quite a lot of at DU right now).

[zulchzulu]

37. As my OP indicated, you can discuss choices, but it's all rambling conjecture at this point

It's all speculation at this point about what one particular cabinet choice will be like with Obama. That said, I understand how we were riding the Election train full speed by Election Day and then we're all supposed to just stop on a dime.

The transition phase is like watching paint dry. When people try to play the Assumption Game by thinking Obama has to be doing something now before he's inaugurated or whether a cabinet choice will somehow undermine his agenda.

[last1standing]

41. I'll only be satisfied when Obama dumps his entire cabinet and fills it with Howard Dean clones.

That's because I have my own agenda that I want to see fulfilled and its far more progressive than I ever believed Obama to be (more than Dean, too). Obviously I don't expect Obama to be as progressive as I am, but that shouldn't stop me from pushing for progressives to be represented in his administration. Hopefully, if enough of us shout loud enough, we'll get one before all his choices are finalized, but we certainly won't if we don't speak up.

That's not to say I don't like Obama, because I do. I'm just a realist with dreams. I know that no real progressive is going to get elected anytime soon, but I can always keep pushing for those baby steps. In the meantime, I do believe Obama has the potential to be the best president since Roosevelt. He also has the opportunity to enact more progressive legislation since Roosevelt as well. The dreamer in me keeps hoping he rises to the occasion. :)

How's that for rambling? :rofl:

[comrade snarky]

65. You are in favor of Human Cloning!!!???

You MONSTER!

It's obvious you stand for all human evil and I rebuke you! Rebuke AND REJECT! IN CAPS!

:lol:

[Breeze54]

10. Tough Luck if you don't like it that people are or are not happy with some of his cabinet picks

He's the one doing the picking and announcing BEFORE he's even sworn in!1!

This is DU. That's what people do here. Discuss events of the day.

Some are in favor of some things, some aren't.

That's called discussion....

Definitions of 'discussion' on the Web:


* an extended communication (often interactive) dealing with some particular topic;
"the book contains an excellent discussion of modal logic"; "his ...

* an exchange of views on some topic; "we had a good discussion";
"we had a word or two about it"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* Debate (North American English) or debating (British English) is
a formal method of interactive and position representational argument. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion

[Webster Green]

11. I'm not real crazy about a couple of his cabinet choices..

So...it would be tedious to express that opinion here?

What are we supposed to do, exchange recipes?

Isn't this a political discussion board? :wtf:

[Ozma]

15. IF you're not happy, perhaps you can be specific, and maybe contact

the transition team with your concerns. Telling us here is pretty ineffective, since none of us, (that I know of, at least) have anything to do with Obama's transition team, have no responsibilities to fulfill in making sure these cabinet and other folks are vetted, nor have any influence over what they do when Obama gets them on his team.

If you think you have something worthwhile to share with Obama and his transition, by all means, get in touch. We all have opinions, and I really don't care what yours or any other person who posts here is. Nor do you care about mine.

Isn't there something more productive we could be doing here than Monday morning quarterbacking Obama's picks?

What's the agenda behind that quarterbacking? I'm sure I don't know.

[Breeze54]

16. I already did give them my opinion.

:D

[Ozma]

27. Care to share what you gave them with us? Or do you prefer your firends

here at the DU are in the dark about what you said and why you said it.

I dunno, but I sure have no clear idea as to whether you have a legitimate gripe or just like to keep your post count up.

[Breeze54]

36. Huh? What I told the Obama Team is my business. You can tell them what you think too! Have you yet?!

Why not? :shrug:

Log into their website and take the poll! ;)


"dunno, but I sure have no clear idea as to whether you have
a legitimate gripe or just like to keep your post count up." :eyes:

BTW? Are you asking me if I agree with everything BO says and does?

The answer is.... no, I don't.

[Webster Green]

33. I don't expect every rant that I post on an Internet board to be "effective"

It's cheaper than a fucking shrink though, and I was under the impression that the purpose of this site was to discuss politics (especially Democratic Party politics).

Am I missing something here? WTF are you talking about? :smoke:

[QC]

18. "Isn't this a political discussion board?"

It used to be. Now it is a fansite.

[scarletwoman]

61. "Now it is a fansite." I think you've nailed it.

I swear, over the last 3 days all I've seen are threads berating people for "bitching" (or even more fun, "bashing"). I've just looked over the entire first page of GD-P thread titles, there are at least 10 OPs that are either complaining about "critics" or that strike a defensive tone.

Aside from 3 locked threads by someone with an obviously very loose grasp on sanity, there are 3 that ask a specific question about a specific policy or appointment in completely neutral tone. That's it for supposed "bitching", as far as I can see.

The defensiveness going on around here is bordering on obsessive.

Come on, people, get a grip already.

sw

[EstimatedProphet]

70. there's a difference between being unhappy and throwing histrionics

Saying "I don't like Hillary as a choice for SoS. I'd rather see X, because I think they would do a better job" = being unhappy and expressing opinion.

Saying "Obama's choices for cabinet positions are proof that he is at heart a corporatist anti-worker free-market Repub in disguise, who wants to completely enslave the American economy and make us all indentured servants" = histrionics.

I've seen both kinds of statements here, especially lately. but then, DU has a reputation for bizarro-world wordspews.

[TexasObserver]

14. Agreed. I couldn't get the smile off my face if I sucked on a lemon.

God damn, people! We won! BIG!!

[amborin]

17. sounds like the old bush/rethug credo to me: love it or leave it, or some such

[Ozma]

25. IF it sounds like that to you, I suspect you can't tell the difference

between Bach and the Beatles. Tin ear? There's a difference between being critical of decisions of an administration compared to vague halfway informed rumor mongering about people who are being asked to serve.

Are any of these people criminals? Did they break any laws in their public service, or other positions they held in their careers?

Do you know each and every position each and every person made in their service to this nation, and the context within which they held all those people held that position? Do you know if they are working to usurp Obama's plans? Are you filled in with all the details of exactly how Obama intends to use each of these appointees?

If so, please tell us, if not, perhaps it's a "wait and see" moment.

[LynneSin]

21. lil tedious - that's just a normal day here at DU

everyone has put their line in the sand as what is a democrat and what isn't. That means we have 130+ members venting that tedious of level as to what is and is not acceptable

[tabatha]

24. No, Obama is taking the country in a new direction.

However, he cannot take it in a new direction with novices.

It is a HUGE relief not to have Bush-like in the future. I am enormously thankful to Obama for making it happen.
I think he needs some slack until such time as he implements erroneous policies.

[LynneSin]

32. Everytime I think I have a complaint about a nominee I think of the options

and realize it could be McCain picking them.

Then I realize it's a whole new world and I'm glad Im a part of it.

[elocs]

23. As Democrats feed on their favorite delicacy: other Democrats.

They cannot even wait until Obama to take office to start nibbling away. It seems he gets a honeymoon except from disgruntled Democrats. I bet the Republicans are taking notes. It would all be funny if it was not so pathetic.

[Cha]

28. Rec'd~ I just

hide the threads..they're a waste of time, imo. Are they letting Obama http://www.change.gov know or just whining on DU that they know better than our President Elect who he wants to work with?

[1corona4u]

31. LOL, you nailed it. Americans are never happy.

It's not just the political parties. Give people an inch, and they want a mile. :eyes:

[Peacetrain]

34. Debate and Dissent does not bother me .. its the jumping up and down

without the fact make me want to pull out my hair by the roots.. the tax cut for the wealthy being a prime example. Since July 2007 (when I got to see him in person in Iowa) Obama has been saying he was going to let them expire, and McCain ran against him on that.

Now a few are acting like he broke a promise. AARRGGHHH... drives me bazonkers

[LWolf]

35. There is no point to electing any candidate

if you aren't expecting certain things from that candidate.

For a candidate to run on "change," only to assemble an administration of main-street players, indicates that "change" as a campaign slogan was only that; or that the only "change" in the works is that of party label.

Obama is actually not doing anything unexpected; the ambiguous "change" he ran on was not the "change" that so many of his supporters wanted to see, and "HOPED" it would be. They didn't read the fine print, and don't like the direction they see him taking his administration with dlc appointments.

That's not a surprise, either.

[stillcool]

38. Change= Competent Governement...

Change never was about Progressive Cabinet Members. Change is about jobs, affordable health care, education, energy, ending the war..etc., etc, and as he expressed most emphatically 'unity'. Something it looks like 'we the people', at least those on DU, are not very interested in. I would like to see some discussion about how we, those of us that are interested in change, can best organize and affect that change. Perhaps forming groups to address certain issues, and find out the best representatives to target. Take up our contact lists and see if we can get people more involved in those efforts. You know 'change' stuff.

[LWolf]

45. That's the thing about campaigning on "change" and "hope."

It's not concrete. "Change" can mean anything the campaign wants it to, anything any voter wants it to. Everyone "hopes" for the change they want.

There's plenty of "change" that is not the change voters were looking for.

And, of course, not all voters wanted the same changes.

I, for one, was never interested in Obama's vision of "change." His "unity" is bullshit. He wants unity between centrists of both major parties. He has never included the american left in his vision of "unity."

The changes he proposes for specific issues are not the changes we need. Most of them represent change only in that they move the democratic party over to take republican positions. That's not unity. That's capitulation.

Too many of the voters who euphorically listened to him give political sermons, voting for the "change" that they envisioned, didn't look closely enough at the change he offered. In the primaries, he wasn't Clinton, and that was enough. Despite the fact that they were almost identical on issues, and his positions were actually, in many cases, more republican than hers. In the GE, he wasn't McCain. The only real change achieved is in the party label of who will occupy the WH, and in how much farther right the D party will move under Obama.

[stillcool]

53. Cool...

I would suggest that you leave the reasons why people voted for Obama up to those people who did vote for him. Why do you think you know so much, that can't be known? Maybe you could trade in that crystal ball for a ouija board.

[LWolf]

54. I only listen to what they say.

As well as read position papers.

It doesn't take a crystal ball or a ouija board. Just paying attention.

[stillcool]

55. What "they" say?....

They who? And what position papers are you talking about? Obama's policies? Or the philosophies of the various people, in the various sectors that he has appointed to his Cabinet? Or is it the hundreds of advisors he has surrounded himself with the last 2 years?

[LWolf]

56. The Democrats and other leftists I'm listening to, of course.

:silly:

And Obama's policies, of course. I read them to see what he is about, politically; they carry more weight with me than his speeches or what others, supporters or detractors, say.

Why is that so hard for you to comprehend...

That someone could have researched Obama's record and positions, and found them wanting.

That there are more than a few who don't see him as the national savior.

What IS it that you don't get?

[stillcool]

58. I don't get your schtick...

What policy positions do you have a problem with? Education? Health Care? Civil Rights? Energy? The Economy? Foreign Policy? And if you are so perturbed by his yet to be Presidency, what do you wish to attain by doing your drive-by trash and bash, and name calling?

[LWolf]

62. Since you asked:

Education: I don't support high-stakes testing, merit pay, or charter schools. Obama does.

Health Care: I support universal, single-payer, not-for-profit health care. Obama doesn't.

Civil Rights: I support gay marriage. I do not support the patriot acts. Where does Obama stand? He does not support legalizing gay marriage, preferring civil unions. There's room for compromise. He voted to extend the patriot act. He criticized it, but his disagreement didn't stop him from voting for it.

Energy: I support sustainable, clean energy. I do not support nuclear energy or the orwellian "clean coal" crap. Obama does.

The Economy: We'll see. I tend to agree with this assessment, but he's got to be better than Bush and McCain, anyway:
http://www.economicpopulist.org/?q=content/obamas-economic-advisers

Foreign Policy: Wants to continue the war on terror. I don't.

I had to reread this subthread, scratching my head, because I didn't call anyone a name, and I didn't do any "drive-bys," as evidenced my willingness to respond to your comments, I didn't trash or bash anyone, and I didn't call anyone a name.

I also didn't suggest that ANYONE's opinions come from crystal balls or ouija boards, which is more than I can say for you.

You lead me to conclude that you are frustrated, feeling the need to defend Obama against disappointment or disagreement. I don't know why; disappointment and disagreement are just as valid as agreement and trust.

Did you want to keep the fact that disappointment and disagreement exist some sort of secret, or what?

[stillcool]

64. Okay...you have differences with..

some of Obama's stated policy positions. They are valid criticisms, and when the policies come up in the future, if they do, I'm sure there will be lots of discussion, and maybe an avenue to voice our opinions. The one thing about this campaign season that gave me 'hope' was the amount of people who invested themselves in money and time for a political purpose. I hope that we can get together again when issues come up for debate in the U.S. Congress. I am certain that many, many voices can make a difference. Perhaps not the end result we may want, but action always has consequences...even if the change we seek comes much later down the road. My problem is when I see the term 'worshipers', or a swath of people categorized. I guess my problem is a human one. The more abrasive the characterizations, towards any one person or group, the more I find myself yes.. having to defend.

[LWolf]

72. I fully intend to take Obama at his word.

He told us that he wanted to listen, "especially" when we disagreed. So I will be communicating, as often and in as many ways, as I can. As an individual, and as part of various groups.

The term "worshipers" comes from this sources: those that refuse to acknowledge any flaws, that wax euphoric about insubstantial "hope" and "change," based, not on policy but on political sermons, and gush about "trusting" him to do whatever. I think that is abdicating responsibility as a citizen, yearning to be a simple sheep in the flock, following where ever the dogs herd. It reminds me too much of the republicans who have stuck like burrs to politicians who enact policies that hurt them, because they run on god, guns, and gays. Seeing democrats do something similar from the other side of the aisle deeply disturbs me.

It also, of course, is a reaction to the somewhat "abrasive" characterizations that are flung at those of us who express any kind of dissent: "loony left;" "fringe;" "concern troll;" etc..

The meme there is that only the "loony," the "fringe," etc. could find anything about Obama to disagree with. A dangerous propaganda strategy, in my opinion.

[Raineyb]

67. If that's your definition of change it's no wonder you'r annoyed by people stating their preferences

cabinet-wise.

Competent government ought to be a given no matter who wins. It is not in my consideration the end when looking for change in how our government works. I'm looking for something a hell of a lot more than that.

Regards

[Maru Kitteh]

39. I had some pasteries this morning that were wholly inadequate.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

The apples were chewy for God's sake!

I'm happy with Obama though. :-)

[ecstatic]

40. Starting with your sig :) It's 365 now. nt

[southern_belle]

42. Thank you!

[Hekate]

43. Eeyore and I will just go eat thistles. Oh woe. It's always worse than you think...

Eeyore is the only one who understands the existential despair of it all.

Hekate

[davidpdx]

44. ZZ, you hit the nail on the head

I haven't logged on since yesterday, but when I logged on this evening, I was disappointed by the hatefilled crap. People whining because they don't approve of every choice Obama makes. GET A FUCKING LIFE PEOPLE!

[Jennicut]

46. MICRO-BITCHING! Best new word ever

[Forkboy]

47. Anyone content in this world needs help or glasses.

Damn right nothing's ever good enough.

[acmavm]

48. Why do people click in on threads like this if all they're gonna do is

bitch about the thread and what some people want to discuss? Do you feel compelled? Do you absolutely have to satisfy some never-ending need to tell others what they should/should not post about? Were you deprived when you were young, like never being picked for hall monitor or something?

Why do some people here not just go their own merry way instead of worrying so much about what others want to discuss?

[Forkboy]

49. You do see the irony in your last line, yes?

;)

[acmavm]

50. No, I don't. I am not about to sit here and bitch and tell these people that

they can't discuss what they want. In fact, I'm going a total 180 with MY post, I think people should be able to talk about what they want. Like this thread, here I was reading away and then the dreaded thread monitor came along and told everyone that they have no right to discuss what they want.

So, discuss away my little chickadees, discuss away.

[BlooInBloo]

60. I suspect that a LOT more people don't know what irony is, than are willing to admit it.

[always_saturday]

52. Good question!

[always_saturday]

51. What's even more tedious is people bitching about other people bitching.

Everybody has a right to their own opinion. If you want to live in a country where opinions are tightly controlled and people are vilified and demonized for not toeing the party line, you should have voted for McCain.

[BlooInBloo]

59. I betcha you can guess what's more tedious than even that.

[AZBlue]

57. Some people can't be happy unless they are unhappy and making others unhappy.

[wisteria]

63. he sold out loyalty and progress to kiss the ass of the status quo

and the old Clinton years. This proves he really doesn't have any vision, he has to cling to the past.

[democracy1st]

66. K & R

[grantcart]

68. Lets start with these fucking threads

I have had enough of two dimensionalism.


Republicans use two dimensionalism.


Clintons' use two dimensionalism.


Bush + Cheney = two - you got it two dimensionalism.


I want three dimensionalism.


I want these threads to come out and grab you by the fucking throat.


You got till January 20th Skinner.

[EstimatedProphet]

69. It will only be good enough when everyone is forced to live life as I want them to.

Nothing else will satisfy me. This may seem unfair, but remember, I am liberal, so I can only have the purest goals and desires for people. In all fairness we should force everyone to be as fair and good to each other and the world under penalty of life inprisonment.

[apnu]

71. Agreed. You put it better than I could! (nt)