Obama said he will close Gitmo and not allow torture. Will he be following the Constitution?

[jenmito]

And any comments are welcome.

[lurky]

1. I don't understand what you mean by "retroactively follow".

:shrug:

[jenmito]

2. I'm being sarcastic. Another poster is starting many threads about how Obama will NOT be

following the Constitution if he doesn't prosecute Bush and Cheney for torture.

[BeFree]

46. That's a good question

Yeah, I voted, can you guess how?

If Obama lets bushco off without even trying to nail bushco, then it is questionable.

could be that Bama doesn't want to play his cards on the matter just yet, can you imagine that?

[jenmito]

49. So you feel he IS responsible for prosecuting the last admin.? Doesn't he have ENOUGH

to deal with? We voted for him because he will not allow torture from the time he becomes president. Can you imagine that?

[BeFree]

54. Not really

I said it was a good question, with the realization that I would get slammed for suggesting it.

Obama will, no doubt, close gitmo, but the damage done may be or may not be a matter of upholding the constitution to try and judicially/criminally fix it. That's the questionable aspect.

surely we can imagine that Bama won't just slide it under the rug. bet is that he does have a good review of what can be done and then act. But being as there are other far more pressing concerns, don't expect action anytime soon.

[jenmito]

57. So how DID you vote?

Or didn't you? Since when is a president responsible for what the last admin. did? He said he would not allow torture. He never said he'd prosecute Bush/Cheney for doing it.

[BeFree]

59. All president are...

...somewhat responsible for what the previous did. But the question, and it is a good one, imo, is just how far back do we go? And is it constitutional to act? International treaties bind every administration, so part of the question is did bush violate a treaty? And if so, is that violation a criminal act enforcable by law?

[jenmito]

60. Since when has the president been somewhat responsible for what the

previous one(s) did? Obama promised to be DIFFERENT from the last one. If he promised to try to prosecute Bush/Cheney, and Congress went along with that, that's one thing. But he has so much to deal with as it is, I don't think he could even if he WANTED to do it. And he's not guilty of torture himself if he DOESN'T prosecute Bush/Cheney.

[BeFree]

61. Lets backup a bit

All i ever said was that imo it is a good question.

Frankly, I was too chicken to present my idea in one of those other threads, Id'a'been made into ground meat before my blood was even let.

I think, jenmito, we pretty much agree on what course any such process would entail.

Now, I'm just gonna slink away.

[jenmito]

62. No problemo...

No need to slink away or be afraid to present your ideas. It's just a message board. You won't be made into ground meat like the turkeys in Palin's photo op. :)

[Blarch]

3. "not allow torture. "

Are you kidding ?

It's the FUCKING LAWS THAT DON'T ALLOW TORTURE ...Not Obama. Obama just needs to uphold the law ..outlawing torture for a third time won't do shit.

[PeaceNikki]

4. I think you need a nap. Or a bannana.

The "hungries" make me cranky, too. :hug:

[BlooInBloo]

9. I turn into the world's biggest fucker when I'm hungry. I usually offer others a red bouncy ball tho

(and no, you folks here haven't experienced me when I'm hungry :P )

[jenmito]

5. You didn't vote? Of COURSE the laws don't allow torture. And Obama will be sworn in to follow the

laws. He's NOT being sworn in to retroactively outlaw torture that took place before he was sworn in. Duh.

[Blarch]

6. So if the law doesn't allow torture.

And Obama takes an oath to uphold the law.

Where does that leave us ?

[jenmito]

15. Um, it leaves us with a president who follows the Constitution. Are Bush and Cheney still going to

be in office? Why didn't you vote???

[PeaceNikki]

24. You should start a thread about it.

:yoiks:

[jenmito]

26. ...

:rofl:

[cali]

8. ok, he'll be closing Gitmo and stopping the practice of illegal torture

care to quibble with that?

[Blarch]

10. If torture is illegal, and against the law.

And Obama takes an oath of office to uphold and defend the law, and then doesn't charge the guilty, how can he NOT violate his oath ?

[Starry Messenger]

11. READ!!!

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/04/02/yoo/

[Blarch]

17. I would never hit a link you posted.

All you do is crack jokes and hurl insults...then you stand back as if you have said something profound, you actually think your posts pass for a rational debate.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. ...

[Starry Messenger]

22. Yes, because posting that Obama advocates torture is so profound.

It's from Salon, written by a Constitutional scholar. From April 2008. I would have thought a deep thinker such as yourself would be au courant with all the latest discussion on this topic. Instead you sound like an 8th grader. Read before you try to get in the big people pool.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. So you're saying Bush doesn't torture anybody illegally?

Interesting.

[cali]

39. first of all, it is NOT Obama's job to charge the guilty. period.

please stop abusingb the Constitution. You're n better than those on the other side who do it. upholding the Constitution does NOT require him to prosecute bushco.

[HughMoran]

12. Pepto - ahhhhhhh - Bismol

Use it.

[HughMoran]

13. In other words, you're so backed up, it's coming out the other end

:puke:

[BlooInBloo]

7. Wow. I take it that crazyman made quite an impression on people today.

[Starry Messenger]

27. More like the past hour.

Hop aboard! :patriot:

[BlooInBloo]

30. Gotcha. Glad to have caught only the tail end of Hurricane Crazyman!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. I don't think the Constitution mentions Guantanamo.

Thus, torture there is obviously Constitutional.

[Blarch]

20. Are you joking ?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. Absolutely not.

Show me where in the Constitution it says you can't torture people on Guantanamo.

That's right, you can't. It doesn't mention Guantanamo.

[jenmito]

29. "...and not allow torture."

I wasn't only talking about Gitmo.

[CreekDog]

18. okay i've been following this topic very closely today and i think

that i'm stupid. :dunce:

[dailykoff]

19. He said he'd roll back the Bush tax cuts for the rich, too.

He said he opposed dumb wars, and he's promised to expand one of the dumbest. He's said a lot of things.

[jenmito]

25. The economy has gotten so bad that he may let them expire rather than roll them back. He's been

leaving that possibility open since before he won the nomination as Jonathan Alter pointed out today on MSNBC. You know he said he wanted to concentrate on Afghanistan. Did you vote for him not knowing that?

[dailykoff]

28. Well I imagine the terra situation could get so bad he has to keep Gitmo open a few more years.

Shit happens, ya know? :shrug:

[jenmito]

31. That is not a valid comparison. He never said torturing detainees was ok in ANY situation.

Not rolling back the tax cuts for the rich until they expire will stimulate the economy. Apples and oranges.

[dailykoff]

32. A little terra goes a long way.

Worked for Bill, worked for George.

[jenmito]

34. Show me where Obama ever said torture is ok-even in "certain circumstances." You won't

be able to.

[dailykoff]

35. Who says he did? Who says Junior did?

We all know torture is wrong. He'll just claim we don't do it. Easy. :shrug:

[jenmito]

37. Cheney said he doesn't consider waterboarding torture. Why are you trying to

start trouble?

[dailykoff]

40. Because I'm sick and tired of living in a country that tortures and commits genocide, okay?

I mean REALLY sick of it. That's blood on all our hands including yours.

[jenmito]

43. OBAMA WILL NOT ALLOW TORTURE!

OK?

[dailykoff]

44. Better ask Billary about that. (n/t)

[jenmito]

47. Billary and their agenda lost. They will be following OBAMA'S agenda. n/t

[cali]

48. then what are you doing here? Can you afford to leave?

Maybe that's the answer for you. And no there's not blood on all our hands. That's just such superficial thinking. It's like saying there was blood on the hands of all Germnans, even those who actively resisted the Nazis.

[dailykoff]

50. Coward's solution. Iggy for you, bye.

nt

[jenmito]

52. You didn't even VOTE (talking about cowards).

:rofl:

[dailykoff]

53. Now you're just lying. Iggy, bye.

nt

[jenmito]

55. I know who voted for the 2nd choice. That must mean you voted for the 1st choice which means

everything you've been saying here you don't believe. :rofl:

[cali]

56. putting people on "iggy". the true little coward's solution. lol.

yeah, you're just such a sterling example of courage.

:rofl:

[jenmito]

58. I bet s/he doesn't even really do it. Just an easy out from dealing with questions he can't answer.

True sign of cowardice.

[Danger Mouse]

63. heh, reminds me of seabiscuit, the asshole king who was proud of putting

every single person who dared to disagree with him on ignore.

[dailykoff]

33. Incidentally Junior has also said repeatedly that we don't torture.

He's also said we're facing a perilous terra threat, a big fat lie that Mr. Obama has repeated. So don't be surprised when it happens, and I'd lay odds that it will.

[jenmito]

36. You're just trying to start trouble. You know Bush said he doesn't consider waterboarding torture.

Obama DOES. I'm still waiting for you to show me ONE quote where Obama said ANY torture is ok...including waterboarding.

[dailykoff]

38. I never said he did. I'm saying he'll allow it and pretend he doesn't know.

In fact I'd say the chances are about 99.9% certain that he'll change our rendition and torture policies not at all. The Clintons sure as hell didn't, and they're back with a vengeance.

[jenmito]

41. You're saying he WILL allow torture. You have absolutely NO basis for that claim unless

you can show me something he said indicating otherwise. :eyes:

[dailykoff]

42. I'll show you two things: Rahm and Hillary. Case closed.

Good night.

[jenmito]

45. They work for Obama and they will implement HIS agenda. Good night yourself. I knew you had no

proof to back up your claim.

[Danger Mouse]

65. Be fair. He worked really hard pulling that out of his ass.

[jenmito]

66. He must've which is why he had to pretend to put us on ignore. He's tired.

[cali]

51. teh stupid, teh stupid. It burns!! make it stop

and yeah, equating Obama with bushco is stupid. Furthermore, those that think there is no terror threat are just as moronic as those that see it everywhere. The London Underground and bus bombing, Spain, Bali, 9/11. Oh, you're probably a truther.

[Danger Mouse]

64. there is no terrarisms!!! it's all in inside jorb!