If the Huffpo article about Hillary is true, Obama already lost control

[dkf]

of her. She's gone rogue from the beginning.

I no longer have confidence that her neocon tendencies will be subjugated to Obama's good judgment. And with his concentration on the domestic agenda, how well will he be watching over what she does?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7928330&mesg_id=7928330

[mdmc]

1. Gates will keep an eye on her

:shrug:

[CoffeeCat]

108. What a sad thought...

...that Obama would pick a cabinet member who would need babysitting.

It's really a sad thought, and I hope to God Hillary gets no where near that cabinet.

[elleng]

2. LOTS of folks/entities

will know/learn about what she's doing; there's a large bureaucracy, among other things. And we'll see how her office is staffed.

[dkf]

3. Didn't you see the leaked stories where Obama was

begging her to take the SOS position because she was reluctant to give up her Senate sest and her autonomy? Oh he promised her tons of access and authority. Another planted story to force him to give her oks on staffing I'm sure.

[elleng]

4. Nope; missed those,

fortunately. I think I'll 'ignore' all that stuff.

[BlooInBloo]

Ignoring "all that stuff" certainly simplies one's thought process...

Which can be very important to some people - even necessary in order for them to be able to function at all.

[elleng]

7. I can function fine

without reading about what 'she' might have said to 'him,' about what she'd like to do next, according to anonymous sources; more important for me will be what she says to Prime Minister X pursuant to her role as SOS.

[BlooInBloo]

8. Actually, that'll be "sos" now. And con-grat-u-la-tions on function so well!!

[joshcryer]

17. Uh, the leak said she was a "top contender" for SoS, and that he "spoke to her directly."

Then we saw the "backtracking" because clearly she had to be vetted first. But it's abundantly clear that the HuffPo article is total bullshit and that in fact Obama did indeed offer her the position and he's not some weasel who can't handle a tiny fucking leak.

[blue_onyx]

68. Funny how you pick and choose which articles to believe

All the stories about Hillary being guaranteed the job or being unsure about leaving the Senate are fake/planted stories meant to force Obama to give her the position and more power. But the articles that make Hillary out to be this manipulative person who is out to get the job at all cost are real. Lame. Obama wanted Hillary and that's why she got the SOS job...it's that simple.

[JVS]

5. What makes you think he ever had much of a hold on her?

I think Rachel Maddow was totally right with this. Back during the late primaries she was saying that she was going to take it as far as she could.

The FL and MI meeting of the Rules Committee.
She delayed concession for several days after the voting ended.
Recently we have been made aware here at DU that her campaign lasted beyond her statement of support for Obama.
She insisted on a floor vote for "catharsis".
The push for her to be VP on a Unity Ticket.
She did some campaigning for Obama, but her statement about doing more for him than any other primary contender did for the contest winner ever has reveals that she was well aware that her perceived level of support for Obama was critical to repairing relationships within the party.
The push for SoS.

Now, don't believe that she's been doing everything unopposed. For example, the floor vote at the convention had delegates flipping to Obama in droves which demonstrated that the party was very concerned about coming together for the GE, and that even many of her staunchest supporters realized that a divided convention would probably not look good for HRC 2012. There is a lot of maneuvering going on.

[BlooInBloo]

6. Slow down a bit there tiger. Go nice and orderly-like...

1st) It needs to be true, since that's what we care about. You know, by contrast with her?

2nd) This could be Team Obama's across-the-bow salvo in some bizarre kind of "leak war". Or more generally some high-brow political game of which we're only seeing an itty-bitty piece.

3rd) If nothing else, then yah to what you say.

[joshcryer]

14. But in that other thread clearly you were insinuating that Obama isn't in control.

I mean far be it for him to actually pick someone! He had to actually be forced, coerced, manipulated into doing it!

It bothers you people *so* much to think that he'd offer the position to Hillary going on *anonymous sources* which *not even a week ago you were saying were bullshit* (anonymous sources are bullshit). What a tangled web we weave, eh.

Cue unsubstantial ridicule and retardation in 3...2...1.

[BlooInBloo]

75. Um, you're supposed to wait until the timer *finishes*.

[wyldwolf]

9. It's amazing watching people...

..discover political reality for the first time. :)

[joshcryer]

18. It's amazing how powerful they still think the Clintons are.

Their minds are in some sort of delusional warp I swear.

[leftynyc]

34. What's really amazing

is how WEAK they think our new President is. That he could be forced to offer Hillary something because he couldn't squash a leak.

[JVS]

19. So which is it?

Is this the political reality, or is your other thread where you say that this is a bunch of BS the truth?

[joshcryer]

21. More that you are missing nuances that are just beyond you.

It's so damn simple yet so many of you cling to the unlikely conspiracy theory rather than the obvious.

[wyldwolf]

41. perhaps you've mistaken my point

whether true or not (and I say 'not'), politics ain't beanbag, and it's amazing watching people's outrage at political maneuvering, real or imagined.

[dkf]

55. I don't like manipulative people.

Can't ya tell? I find it disgusting really.

[sufrommich]

10. Why would Obama feel "forced" to pick Hillary Clinton

because of alleged leaks but not John Kerry, whose aides leaked that he wanted the job? Obama has already proven,over and over again, that he makes his own decisions.

[H2O Man]

11. The claims in the article

are inaccurate. Barack Obama was not pressured to take Hillary Clinton for Secretary of State.

[mwb970]

12. This is what happens when the election is over and there's nothing to talk about.

We're spinning our wheels now with these silly mini-tempests. This board sure is a lot less fun now!

[regnaD kciN]

13. I think the article's B.S., and here's why...

What would be the point for Hillary, if she really wanted to be a "loose cannon" in the administration, since she would be giving up her Senate seat for a post where Obama could fire her the first time she "went rogue?" Remember, the SoS serves at the pleasure of the President, and can be let go at any time.

[liberal N proud]

15. BINGO!

Thank you.

She had job security in the Senate, not so as SOS

[JVS]

16. I see it as a kind of balancing act.

Hillary is not very important in the senate because she lacks seniority. A cabinet position is a way to be more important without waiting a long time.

Hillary may want to be president, but she could not do it until 2016, her chances for a 2012 run would be slim, but not beyond the realm of all possibility.

If Obama puts her in the cabinet, she is more dependent on him for political survival over the next few years. This is compounded by the fact that as a cabinet member she would not be allowed to do fundraising. Also there is her remaining debt from this year. This position would make it almost impossible for her to try any funny business in 2012. On the other hand, Bill can raise money fairly easily and they've already demonstrated a willingness to deplete their personal coffers for campaigning funds.

So what we have is some motive on her side to try to get the spot and some benefits for Obama to give the spot, unless he figures that she couldn't do anything anyway. If she gets the spot, I'm sure she plans to toe the line and assemble her people for 2016.

[dkf]

26. She has no clout in the Senate.

She is a junior senator even in her own state. Kennedy was going to take Health Care. Reid is keeping majority leader. They were trying to create some Senate position for her so that she wouldn't feel deflated at her junior status. There have been a TON of articles about this.

[leftynyc]

35. So can I put you on the record

as considering our new President so fucking weak he couldn't squash a leak? Is that what you're saying?

[dkf]

54. So nobody is leaking huh?

Or else Obama is weak? Isn't that kind of a joke?

Unless you are saying all these leaks are coming from Obama. BWAHAHAHA.

[leftynyc]

56. I never said people weren't leaking

I'm saying that the implication here in this absurd story is that Obama is so weak he is unable to squash a leak by simply saying it's not true. What you're laughing about is totally beyond me - this story should be making you angry.

[dkf]

59. I am mad.

All this time I didn't know why Hillary was being so damned pushy. Now I know why and she is pissing me off.

If she had played this differently, been gracioius, close mouthed, had NO LEAKS AT ALL, then maybe I'd believe he wanted her.

But all this stuff I hear coming out of her camp makes me believe she felt she needed to pressure Obama, that she did not feel confident she was the pick.

This whole circus feels like such a fiasco. I really don't want this craziness coming from the State Department. Isn't that supposed to be where the diplomats are? This feels so opposite of what I imagined diplomacy should and would be under Obama.

[leftynyc]

61. You're talking in circles

You're blaming Hillary for Obama being so fucking weak, he's unable to squash a rumor simply by saying it's not true. What I see from you is an obsession with Hillary that has you so twisted, you're ready to believe the our new President is merely her puppet. Sad.

[dkf]

62. I don't think he's weak, I think

he is too politically minded and he's being too cute.

[leftynyc]

63. What's stopping him from

saying the rumors are not true? How hard is that? What's stopping him from announcing ________ is my pick for SOS, PERIOD. The man I voted for would have no problem doing that if he didn't want Hillary. You, obviously, voted for a man you consider a quisling weakling.

[dkf]

64. Maybe he will. I hope so.

All I know is I didn't vote for Hillary Clinton's brand of foreign policy. I really disliked what she had to say on the subject.

Obama spent so much time telling me that his was the better way that now I'm convinced. Then if he appoints her he tells me Hillary should be handling our foreign policy.

It just doesn't make sense.

[leftynyc]

72. You misunderstand the job

of cabinet posts. Her job will be to enact HIS foreign policy. She works at the pleasure of the President. I trust him to know what he's doing.

[Whisp]

84. He will announce on his own time when he's good and ready

and no whining or threatening from anyone is going to change that.

I don't think of that as weak at all.

[leftynyc]

89. The person I was responding to

was making the implication that Obama was FORCED into making Clinton his SOS because she leaked the info that he had already made the offer. I think it's absurd to believe that as there is nothing weak about our new President.

[CoffeeCat]

107. I think Obama is treating...

...the Clintons like lunatics with hand grenades.

He's trying to back away slowly with no sudden movements--as he announces
someone else besides Hillary for SOS.

That's quite the dance that he must perform, don't you think?

I think Hillary has been on edge throughout this entire process. First, she loses
a Presidential election, that she initially thought was in the bag. Then, as Obama
is putting his staff together a reporter asks Hillary is she think she'll have
access to Emanuel. Hillary practically chokes on her anger as she snaps back, "Rahm?
Rahm Emanuel? He'll be accessible TO ME!!" Then, Obama meets with Richardson about
a cabinet position.

Hillary freaked out about not being on the inside. She saw the handwriting on the
wall. Plus, as the HuffPo article pointed out, Hillary does not have seniority in
the Senate and Kennedy is taking on that initiative.

She realized that she's been relegated to a non-staring role.

She's making it Obama's problem. She's very unhappy, and she tried to strong arm
Obama into picking her as SOS--by using the media and various leaks.

It's pathetic. It's part of the reason that she won't be selected.

I could never work with someone like this. I'd be disappointed if Obama did.

[leftynyc]

You make it sound like you were

sitting in the room with them which you, of course, weren't. Amazing how everyone thinks they know what is inside Hilary's head when they don't knoW SHIT. Perhaps he really does think she would do a good job and does want her. But that would never occur to you. I trust him to make up his own mind and do what he thinks is right.

[CoffeeCat]

115. I trust Obama to make up his own mind too...

And you don't have to be a psychic to understand what is going on.

I saw it when the first leak happened, as Andrea Mitchell proclaimed
that Hillary had been offered the SOS job.

Now, all of the reports indicate that she was never offered the job.

The newest information indicates that what I laid out is true.

Many others have seen this as well.

People who are in the tank for Hillary get angry at anyone who dares to see the
truth about her. Or they name call.

It's ridiculous.

[leftynyc]

116. All the reports??

What you have is one unsourced report that feeds into your already made up mind. Can't you admit that this unsourced report merely validates what you already believe. There are no FACTS, no NAMED sources. You believe it because you want to. I learned long ago that if people aren't willing to put their name to something, chances are they are full of shit or not telling the whole truth.

Whatever. Believe what you want. I'll wait for facts.

[CoffeeCat]

120. The facts are very clear...

...to me.

Not because of what I "want", as you said.

It's obvious that Clinton has been orchestrating a series of media leaks
in order to make it nearly impossible for Obama to pick someone else for
SOS.

The Obama camp was leak free until Hillary came along. Then suddenly,
after their meeting--we had non-stop drama and leaks for five days.

Are you suggesting that there is no significance to that? Come on.

It's not what I want or what I see.

It's pretty obvious, to anyone who is paying attention--and understands the basic
personalities of these people--the basic narrative that is being played out.

[leftynyc]

122. There are no facts

That's my point. There are unsourced rumors - that's it. Has it occurred to you that in vetting a person, when calling people they know and asking for papers they need to make a decision, it's nearly impossible for things to stay a secret (we all know that if more than three know a secret, it's not secret anymore). You're CHOOSING to believe these stories (I say it's because you want to) but you have NO FACTS. You could be right, you could be wrong. He hasn't announced that Gates is staying on, but everybody knows he will, he hasn't announced Richardson for Commerce, but we've all heard it's a done deal. Are you going to blame the Clintons for that as well? How would the Clintons know either of those things?

[leftynyc]

109. You make it sound like you were

sitting in the room with them which you, of course, weren't. Amazing how everyone thinks they know what is inside Hilary's head when they don't knoW SHIT. Perhaps he really does think she would do a good job and does want her. But that would never occur to you. I trust him to make up his own mind and do what he thinks is right.

[CoffeeCat]

105. What world do you live in?

Are you actually suggesting that ANY human being has power to
curtail or control the Clinton machine?

The Clintons have been the source of the leaks...from Hillary being offered SOS, to Hillary
accepting, to Hillary maybe deciding otherwise.

Are you suggesting that Obama is "fucking weak" because he "couldn't squash a leak" that
came from the Clintons?

Or am I misunderstanding?

[LostinVA]

106. You are misunderstanding -- the poster is saying the opposite

[leftynyc]

110. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying

If it was a leak that wasn't true or something that obama did'n't want, then he's fucking weak for not calling her out for it and putting and end to the speculation. The Clintons are just people - not evil forces. People who think otherwise are unhinged.

[CoffeeCat]

114. But look how she's acting...

If these articles are true--then these things are true:

Obama met with Clinton. They discussed opportunities for her in the Obama administration. No
job offers were extended. However, Clinton wanted the SOS position and demanded it.

Clinton leaves meeting and her camp leaks lies to Andrea Mitchell and others--saying that Hillary has
been offered the SOS job. More leaks come out from the Clinton camp, suggesting that Hillary is thinking
it over. Hillary cues Kissinger to come out on the Sunday talk shows and endorse her for SOS--talking
up her foreign policy cred--just to turn the heat up on Obama even further.

So...the Clinton camp wasn't offered a job, so they decided to get it any way they could--lie, cheat,
undermine, usurp.

Are these normal people? These people are fricking nuts.

When you're smart, you treat people like this like lunatics with hand grenades. You tread lightly.
Plus, Hillary's got a ton of supporters--and she's DLC. You want to piss off the neocon wing of the Dem
party, even before you've set foot in the Oval Office? They could make his life a living hell.

Obama is trying to be diplomatic. He's trying to resolve this peacefully. He's not matching their
crazy or their vindictiveness.

It's a "new kind of politics" remember?

[leftynyc]

117. You are seeing nefarious motives

because you want to. None of what you posted is confirmed in any way, shape or form. It's all coming from your imagination. what I believe is that if even half of what you think happened did actually occur, the man that I voted for would come out and squash the rumors. Nobody is going to make this President do what he doesn't want to do. If he didn't want to do it and is feeling manipulated, that scares me. If he can get pushed around by a junior senator, that does not bode well for him. I have a lot of faith in this man. Sorry you don't seem to.

[CoffeeCat]

118. I applaud what he's done so far...

Seriously, Barack Obama is probably one of the most self actualized people on the planet.

His close advisers say that they have never seen him angry. He thinks things out thoughtfully
and from a position of strength and peace.

I only wish I could attain such maturity.

Yeah...it's easy to say that this stuff is coming from my imagination. However, when you understand
the Clintons--it's really not that difficult to figure out. Clinton went into the meeting with Obama
PISSED. She was angered at the thought of not having access to Obama, and that was evident in an
interview she did a few days before the meeting. Her wanting to spearhead healthcare reform from the
Senate was blocked by Ted Kennedy, who is heading up the effort.

It's not that difficult to figure out that she went to Obama--desperately wanting a job in that
administration. It's really not that much of a stretch to suggest that she would try to manipulate
and strong arm Obama into naming her SOS--by unleashing a series of media leaks that make it difficult
for him not to give her the SOS job.

The HuffPo and the NYTimes articles suggest that she was never offered the SOS job--that she "made it up."

News sources are confirming this.

I don't see this as Obama "being pushed around" as you said. Hillary is being Hillary. Obama's being
true to himself. He's not being vindictive and publicly saying that he didn't extend the offer. That
would make Hillary Clinton look like a complete tool. He's being dignified, and he's not reacting
to her antics.

I have a lot of faith in Obama. I know he will maneuver out of this situation--and he will pick the SOS
that he wants.

[leftynyc]

123. So tell me

what's stopping Obama from announcing it's not happening? And you're wrong - there are no confirmed news sources about this - there are unsorced rumors that you are choosing to believe because they fit your worldview. The thought that he would feel FORCED into naming someone to such an important post is laughable.

[ruggerson]

58. because according to the pathology

Hillary has no bearings or grip on reality or common sense.

She is insane and wants to kill all your pets.

[QC]

119. She ate my puppy!

Here she is about to gobble him up!

[karynnj]

79. There would be a huge political cost in firing HRC

unless there was a MAJOR obvious action that both was not what Obama wanted and seen as unambiguously wrong - a clarity that rarely happens

[stillcool]

112. Oh no...More Clinton Drama?

does it ever end?

[elkston]

20. If Obama was going to get punked by Hillary, he would have folded on the VP thing.

No. He knew he didn't want her for that, and chose Biden. All this despite strong pressure for him to "unify" the party (implying only Hillary as VP could do that).

He made the RIGHT decision, not the popular one.

So now there happens to be an intersection between what HE wants and what makes Hillary fans happy.

We have to assume that he wants Hillary in this position and that its possible they actually like each other.

[JVS]

23. There could be variables at play that make this version different

The logic of your claim is like saying "There's no way that my barn got hit by lightning last night, two weeks ago there was a hell of a storm and it almost got hit then."

[dkf]

24. As Brzezenski says...you can't fire the VP, but you can fire the SOS.

Obama thinks that will keep her in line, but all these leaks show that isn't true.

But the fact that he can fire her makes SOS at least a possibility.

[Vinca]

22. Doesn't the SOS serve at the pleasure of the POTUS?

If she doesn't work out, I'm sure others would be happy to serve.

[dkf]

27. You don't think her behavior is already displeasing him?

I bet it is.

The question is, does he want political heat. Its just like when McCain picked Sarah Palin. If he dumped her, it became a lack of judgment on his part.

This is why the Clinton faction spread that it was a done deal, and made it very politically difficult to not pick her. Those leaks were Hillary playing hardball. No other position went through so much posturing, except the early drama of Rahm.

[JVS]

28. you see things for what they are.

[Vinca]

29. I don't think he'd appoint her if he didn't want her. Honestly.

O isn't a wimp.

[JVS]

30. I don't think she stands out as sos material without engaging in some lobbying

There are some things he gains from it, but it isn't the greatest.

[dkf]

31. He isn't a wimp, but he is very very politically minded.

He knows what the situation is and what his downsides are.

[Rockholm]

66. What behavior are you talking about?

Jeez, leave the woman alone.

[LittleApple81]

25. Obama is a lot smarter,tougher, and ruthless than most people give him credit for. I read an article

on The New Yorker magazine (July? 2008) about his rise in politics, and he ain't St. Obama, THANK GOODNESS!!!! He does not hesitate to drop people like a stone, to use others if necessary. But that is what is needed in a position of power in this country. So no, I don't think Hillary wins in a battle of wits or will.

[dkf]

33. And he is very confident in his abilities to get Hillary under control.

I have no doubt he floated the idea of some sort of position, but she took it and ran with it and shoved him into a corner.

Now he has a tiger by the tail.

I foresee a never ending battle of wills as long as she is around.

[leftynyc]

36. No, what you're saying is

he couldn't squash a rumor. In your never ending obsession with all things Hillary, you've painted our new President as a weak puppet.

[JVS]

38. No, those are just the words you want to put in her mouth.

you should realize that there are many shades of grey between doing something because you're totally pumped for it and doing something because your hand is being forced

[leftynyc]

42. NOBODY can force

the president to do ANYTHING. I can't believe people are believing this tripe. It has to be because it's Hillary being talked about. Otherwise people here would see right through this insulting and unsourced shit.

[JVS]

46. There is always political pressure. Don't you remember when OMC was predicting that HRC would be VP

He said that if she wanted it, she'd take it and there was nothing anyone could do to stop her. How did you weigh in on his opinion then?

[leftynyc]

52. Who's OMC?

And without even knowing that I have no problem stating that I NEVER thought that Obama would cave to political pressure and didn't think VP would be a good fit for Hillary. This whole thing is absurd.

[Zodiak]

96. This is the second time you have tried to argue by putting your words in another's mouth

We can hardly see you with all of the straw-men you bring in with you.

It is intellectually dishonest.

[Thrill]

32. I call BS. Hillary had NO leverage. Obama could have pulled the plug on this

and found several qualified and more qualified people for the position.

And she won't be going Rogue, with Jim Jones and Gates in there

[leftynyc]

37. Exactly

Kerry or Richardson would have both been fine choices. The implication that O was forced to make a decision is so fucking insulting I can't believe people are making it with a straight face and expect to be taken seriously.

[liberalpress]

39. Just as I suspected

The genius of the Hillary as SOS pick. She is a lightning rod. And to the press, especially conservatve radio and bloggers like Drudge, she is heroin. They an't get enough of her. So while all eyes are focused in State and the squabbles and "going rogue" and who is in charge...



...here's Obama, the sleight of hand artist, fixing the economy, health care, the environment (and possibly reinstating the Fairness Doctrine) all practically unnoticed as the distraction of the Foggy Bottom Sideshow is in full display.

[happychatter]

40. not enough evidence there to justify that article's leading notion

I saw no "there," there.

Until I see more evidence, I will continue to suspect that this was entirely President Elect Obama's idea AND FURTHERMORE, he probably caught her almost completely by surprise.

She was gushing... fairly gushing.

[mtnsnake]

48. That's because there never is evidence. It's always anonymous sources

IOW, people who feed the rumor mill.

[JVS]

50. Kind of like rumors of certain people being chose for SoS?

[happychatter]

43. If anyone has evidence that Obama would actually jeopardize National Security for a political GAME

show it

if not... then let them show their face up on MY block

I'll happily slap the silly right out of them

That's my president you're talking about

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

44. You and me both.

[cboy4]

45. LOL

[mtnsnake]

47. That was a "report" by no journalist. Total BS opinions that sickos are passing off as fact

She's gone rogue from the beginning.

I no longer have confidence that her neocon tendencies will be subjugated to Obama's good judgment. And with his concentration on the domestic agenda, how well will he be watching over what she does?

Do you realize that all you're doing is wasting time, yours and everyone else's but especially yours? The only people you and the other sickos are going to convince are the rest of the sickos and the peons who latch onto the bloggers' crap and spread it around places like this. But it's all for naught because in the real world your garbage and their garbage just doesn't make a dent because all the allegations from these "articles" are always based upon "anonymous sources" that can't be named. How convenient. Only problem for you is, mainstream Democratic America just doesn't buy it like you and your ilk do.

When Obama and his team successfully change this country for the good, what will you and the other wackos come up with to try to marginalize it all? I'm sure you'll think of something.

You and a few other people around here really need to get a grip on reality. Get a life while you're at it.

[sufrommich]

51. Oh, how they long for the good old days...

when they could just stroll up to the village elder and demand she be burned at the stake.

[CreekDog]

49. Obama and his staff knew before they even talked to Hillary that floating her meant picking her

they didn't get played at all.

they weren't going to consider her just to say, oopsy, the paperwork didn't work out. Obama does not start friction without a purpose that serves him well.

[dkf]

57. They didn't float her, she floated her.

She only told 3 people who were sworn to secrecy...so if they were so secret how do we know it was only 3 people? Hilarious.

[Clio the Leo]

53. Four words: "I don't do cowering." NT

[brianna69]

60. Are people really taking this nonsense seriously

I know many around here might hate Hillary but to believe Hillary tricked Obama into him appointing her SOS is beyond insane.

[LostinVA]

65. Apparently, many do -- and thus think PE Obama is a dupe

Makes me wish I could rethink my vote.

:eyes:

[tigereye]

67. god, this is such bullshit!

why do people keep promulgating this crap! :banghead:


Hillary is not the evil empire! Jesus.

[blue_onyx]

70. Some people are just obsessed with her

This is why I think the media and public is responsible for much of the Clinton "drama" that everyone talks about.

[MarjorieG]

69. Don't trust the Clintons, but their skills and star power are needed, will be channeled for good.

Can't let them flounder to make mischief, and Hillary did earn a seat at the table. Utilizing all Democrats shows we are a governing party, country over pettiness.

[moriah]

71. I'm ignoring the press on this issue until I see it on the Obama website.

However, looking at Google News searches, it doesn't look like the article HuffPo is quoting is correct.

First... the article they're citing is supposedly from a November 18, 2008 edition of the New York Review of Books, the signature line says November 20th, and the content refers to a statement that occurred supposedly on November 21st.

A bit confusing, but with the Web perhaps they added new information to the article and didn't change the dates.

It's also funny that, by looking at Google news searches, HuffPo was the first place to say that there had been an offer, quoting "two senior Democratic officials." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/14/clinton-met-with-obama-ab_n_143810.html

The same day, an ABC report came out saying there was no hard offer. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/11/details-on-hill.html

Also on the 14th, an aide said "if an offer was made" she wouldn't likely turn it down. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/14/politics/politico/thecrypt/main4605318.shtml

On the 16th Bill said Hillary would be a great secretary of state but has no knowledge of any offer: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jBmzpePRfEtpzUdp64KpWT4c8kRA

On the 17th the Guardian, completely unsourced, says that Hillary will accept "the offer" acting like it's already been made. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/17/hillary-clinton-secretary-of-state

On the 19th, "Clinton aides" say that no offer has been made, certainly no formal offer, and that she seemed interested in Ted Kennedy's discussion about health care reform -- saying she wasn't sure if she would accept it even if there was an offer. But not saying there was an offer and thereby misconstruing the discussion. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15738.html

On the 21st, the NYT says they spoke to Obama officials who said "the offer has not been formally accepted", but that could also mean there was no actual offer. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/21/clinton-to-accept-secretary-of-state-job/?hp This is the one where Clinton aides are alleged to have said she was accepting the job.

CBS construes the above to mean that Obama officials said an offer was made. http://www.cbs6albany.com/news/accept_1258863___article.html/position_state.html

Clinton officials say the above was incorrect on the 21st -- http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/11/clinton_official_says_secretar.html

-----------

The only time Clinton aides said that an offer had been made was in the NYT piece, which they denied that day.

The other time it was completely unsourced from the Guardian.

Every other time Clinton aides said something, they said that no offer had been made.

-----------

But at this point, I don't care. I'm ignoring the reporters on this until I see the information on Obama's website or see him in his Youtube weekly addresses saying who he's chosen.

[hileeopnyn8d]

74. I think I love you!

I agree with what you said, and I love your use of Google! I noticed the dates being off right away, and that the part about Clinton was two paragraphs out of fourty-five. It seemed a little rambling and out of place, even in what was a very rambling and meandering article to begin with.

I know Elizabeth Drew has enjoyed many years as a respected political journalist/novelist, but this article seemed like a collection of bits & pieces of everything already written about Obama, along with a side of armchair analyst.

But at this point, I don't care. I'm ignoring the reporters on this until I see the information on Obama's website or see him in his Youtube weekly addresses saying who he's chosen.

I'll join you in waiting to hear/see for myself who he chooses. It's not like he's made himself inaccessible to the press/public to the point where we can only speculate and rely on rumors and leaks for information.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

73. You Believe That Crap?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Jennicut]

76. Yeah, I'm amazed some people do. Like Obama is so weak and dumb.

The guy is freakin brilliant, I doubt he could be manipulated so easily.

[LanternWaste]

77. Word on the street is that...

Word on the street is that she also plans on replacing everything in your stocking with nothing more than mere lumps of coal this Christmas, she's very devious that way-- in addition to being a rogue, you know...

You betcha!


:eyes:

[LostinVA]

78. Does that mean my dvd of "Prince Caspian" that I asked Santa to bring me???

DAMN HER!!!!

:cry:

[LanternWaste]

81. But it's scented coal...

But it's scented coal! That should count for something... :P

[LostinVA]

83. Maybe

[rug]

80. It's worse, Hillary has implanted a mind control chip in Obama's cortex.

[mtnsnake]

82. And here I thought she was really a witch or a hypnotist.

[QC]

93. I heard that she sapped and impurified his precious bodily fluids. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

85. Although it has been reported that Obama feels "boxed in" by the Clinton leaks,

I still believe Obama will not be bullied by her or the Clinton camp reindeer games. I mostly object to the drama of her litigating this in the press vis a vis leaks as pressure. Drama follows Clinton around like dirt does Pigpen ...

[blue_onyx]

86. How do you know it was Clinton leaks?

I've heard that it was people associated with Obama that leaked the information. The fact that info on many of the other appointments has also leaked makes me believe the leaks are coming from within the Obama camp.

[AtomicKitten]

87. links

"Obama Officials Feel Boxed In by Clinton Leaks":
http://m.huffpost.com/top/6978/full

"Obama Team thinks Clinton Team Responsible for SoS Speculation":
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/11/19/2008-11-19_team_obama_thinks_hillary_clintons_peopl.html

"Clinton fabricated initial Obama SoS "offer":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7928330&mesg_id=7928330

[blue_onyx]

88. That's all gossip

It's all info from "people in the Obama camp" or "former Clinton aides" or "insiders." Nothing offical from Obama or Clinton, just speculation. It's interesting that people choose to believe any article that paints Hillary has this manipulative person who will try to get the SOS position at any cost. Any article shows her to be torn about taking the position or in any way makes her come across positively, people choose to disregard.

[AtomicKitten]

90. Blind eye syndrome is epidemic here at DU, apparently. n/t

[blue_onyx]

91. Hillary obsession epidemic

Just because I don't want to cause all this drama (yes, it's people like you, not the Clintons, who cause the drama) doesn't mean I'm turning a blind eye. I'm simply not blinded by my distaste for someone and can realize the everything is SPECULATION, NOT FACT. These articles simply fit your opinion so they are the only articles you will pay attention to (very Bush-like, if you ask me).

[AtomicKitten]

92. Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it. ;)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7929963

[blue_onyx]

97. Yes, she has made mistakes

She voted for the war, a huge mistake, and it would have cost her my vote in the primary, had Michigan had a primary. But Obama has made mistakes too. Remember how he voted on the FISA bill this summer? Remember how he gave the financial institutions a blank check (yes, it was a blank check) a month or so ago (a mistake he and Clinton both made). There's no reasoning with people who hate Hillary because she could do no good in their eyes. Politician will never do exactly what you or I want and to to expect that is unreasonable. If Hillary becomes SOS, she will do a great job for Obama (and the country), just as she did in the general election.

[AtomicKitten]

98. Clinton defense #1: Impugn the source, #2: Make it personal with hostility.

Check.

[blue_onyx]

100. LOL...

Your irrational hatred of her is amusing. There was nothing personal nor hostile in any of my responses. Just because you are unable to defend the fact that you can overlook Obama's mistakes but not Hillary's doesn't mean you have to go throwing nasty accusations around.

[AtomicKitten]

102. rinse and repeat

[blue_onyx]

103. Yes indeed

I saw the Hillary bashing thread you started. You love to repeat the "Clinton defense #1: Impugn the source, #2: Make it personal with hostility" stuff.

Irrational Hillary Hatred defense, accuse others of being hostile while ignoring any argument they make. When people accuse others of having certain feeling, they are often projecting their own emotions onto that person. You clearly aren't interested in having conversations with people so I'll move on. Have fun with all your Hillary comments.

[AtomicKitten]

104. How dare anyone stand in the way of her ambition. By any means necessary. Check.

[CoffeeCat]

94. Why would Obama even want Hillary?

If the President was someone who shared Hillary's hawkish views, then Hillary as SOS would
make sense.

Hillary is smart, she's hard working and she is competent. If Bob Kerrey or John McCain was
President--it would actually make sense.

However, her hawkish, neocon views don't jive with Obama's. Look at Obama's view on the Iraq
war, from the onset--and look at Hillary Clinton's capitulation with the neocons at every turn.

I just don't understand why he would even want her in that position.

Their personal and political styles are polar opposite. I just can't imagine her
in this position, or in his cabinet and I hope that it doesn't happen.

I don't think she'll get the SOS position. All leaks so far, have been from the Clinton
camp. We really have no idea what Obama is thinking or planning to do yet. The leaks
have been designed to force him to pick her.

I can't imagine Obama wanting any of this near him or his cabinet.

I guess we'll see...

[sufrommich]

95. I'm sure this obsession with Hillary Clinton is for exactly

the reasons you list.Hence,the endless threads of "concern" with his choice of Rahm Emanuel as his right hand man.:eyes:

[CoffeeCat]

99. I have no idea what you just said...

...so I won't comment.

[sufrommich]

101. Here,I'll explain it to you:

Rahm Emanuel was Satan himself on this board until he was rumored to be Obama's Chief of Staff.He pretty much fits the description you paint of Hillary (both erroneously,in my opinion)and yet after 2 or 3 negative posts about him,it was over and forgotten. The difference is that Emanuel didn't run against Obama in the primary. This concern about Hillary Clinton being in Obama's cabinet is leftover shit from the primary,plain and simple.

[Liquorice]

111. Obama doesn't seem to care about hawkish views. He chose Biden after all. nt

[Laelth]

113. Better to have her at State than in the Senate.

Obama's strategy is brilliant. Moving Clinton to State means he can fire her if she doesn't toe the line. Not so if she's in the Senate. He will have effectively controlled her as soon as she gives up her Senate seat. Same goes for Emanuel. Obama chopped off one head of the DLC by putting Emanuel in a position where he can be fired if he fails to do Obama's bidding.

I am deeply impressed with how Obama is handling the transition. I am quite hopeful that we will finally have a progressive administration.

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--clarity.

[tandem5]

121. In order to believe such a story you have to also believe

Obama to be a complete pushover, chump, sap, sucker, moron, idiot. The President of the United States has no choice but to nominate her because she started a rumor!?! I'm sorry, but if that's true then Obama doesn't have "good judgment."

[snake in the grass]

124. I can't go to HuffPo anymore.

Arianna's hatred of the Clintons is just too pathological.