Barack Obama had to know the political risk of offering SoS to HRC

[Lilith Velkor]

What do you all think is the payoff for taking such a risk?

I see two possibilities now: 1) that this is a rerun of the Veepstakes horseshit, or 2) he wants an SoS that won't let the Pentagon push her around. That might make it worth the risk.

[wyldwolf]

1. what political risk?

Most of the electorate approve, most Democrats approve, many on the right approve. That only leaves the fringe left wailing and gnashing their teeth.

[Cosmic Charlie]

5. Many on the Right approve. That should be your first clue as to the foulness of this.

But being Pro-DLC, your probably down with that, eh?

[wyldwolf]

6. well, Obama certainly didn't win with leftwing votes alone, now did he?

But hey, I would expect a non-relevant reply from someone who doesn't know what a domestic policy is.

[Cosmic Charlie]

21. your simple minded attachment to your 'domestic policy' quip is humorous

hold onto that blankie!

don't dare look into that which you defend.

The DLC has lost the Reins of Power, and they will never get them back.

This must at least be beginning to dawn on you, right?

[wyldwolf]

22. coming from someone who thinks the Iraq war is domestic policy... lol

[Captain Hilts]

20. 80% of Democrats approve of this appointment. nt

[joshcryer]

75. Many on the right are the radically opposite representation of many on the left.

Particularly that very vocal majority who despises Hillary. They loved Hillary before because they felt she'd bring out the vote due to their almost universial hatred of her, don't think it has changed, they merely pick the more comfortable position of liking someone most radically opposite leftists despise.

[LaydeeBug]

84. Many here on the left approve as well.

And as long as we're passing around the insinuations, we also know the difference between your and you're.

[Two Americas]

8. not really

I am fringe Left and haven't been posting anything about Senator Clinton. Most of the fringe Left people that I know here have not been.

I suppose it is difficult to lass up any opportinity to bash the Left and call us "fringe," though.

[wyldwolf]

12. not really what?

Not really most of the electorate approves? Not really most Democrats approve? Or not really only the fringe left is having temper tantrums over it?

Of course, we're speaking in generalaties. ALL the electorate doesn't approve. ALL Democrats don't approve. All the right doesn't approve. And, of course, ALL the fringe left doesn't disapprove.

[Two Americas]

17. not really this..

"That only leaves the fringe left wailing and gnashing their teeth."

[Lilith Velkor]

13. The MSM is in full tantrum mode

What you call the "fringe left" is actually media-addled rubes of the psuedo-left.

The actual "fringe left" - that would be self-identified socialists, such as yours truly - has mainly taken this with a shrug and, "It figures."

[wyldwolf]

14. well, ok

the media-addled rubes of the psuedo-left.

[TexasObserver]

60. Co-sign. It's a home run, folks.

The world loves it. They are further reassured that Obama is as wonderful as they think he is. If this guy can (1) appoint his most fierce opponent his head of STATE, (2) bury the hatchet with his defeated opponent, and (3) graciously take the reins early from his failing predecessor, this is a guy they can trust to be straight with them.

[KittyWampus]

2. Prove he actually did.

[Dis Pater]

4. LOL.

[Lilith Velkor]

18. Don't you think he would have called bullshit by now if he weren't considering it?

Unless, of course, the answer is Speculation 1).

[onehandle]

82. If he didn't, he will look like the biggest political amateur in history.

He could have nipped this "rumor" in the bud two weeks ago.

It happened.

[CarbonDate]

92. Nah, that's an easy one to answer:

"I never said I offered her the job; that was you guys (the press)."

Turn it around and make the press look stupid. This is a game the press plays: put rumors out there and make him deny them so they can do a whole "process of elimination". The one he doesn't deny is it. He's not playing that game, because he's not an amateur.

We'll find out when we find out. Right now we don't know who he's picking. All we have are rumors.

[Cosmic Charlie]

3. that's why he hasn't offered her anything yet, despite popular leaked belief

this is indeed Veepstakes Horseshit, enough to fill the Augean Stables...

[xchrom]

9. leaks can't be proven -- that's why they're leaks.

keep pissing in the wind.

[Lilith Velkor]

24. Quite possible.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Double T]

10. No political risk, HRC is a Team Player and she will make herself and BO look good.......

in the eyes of the world and the USA. Quit stirring up HS where none exists!

[Lilith Velkor]

23. Tell that to the NYT and MSNBC.

They're the ones stirring it up.

I'm just wondering where it's coming from, and inviting others to speculate.

[Double T]

26. Left wing needs to move front and center with the majority of US!

[Lilith Velkor]

31. Then it wouldn't be the left wing anymore, would it?

Nonsensical.

[Double T]

68. Great idea, no left (or right) wing anymore.

[Zombie2]

87. Lame

[gravity]

11. Maybe he just thinks she is best for the job

Do we always have to be this cynical?

[Lilith Velkor]

15. I do.

It's my nature. You certainly don't have to be anything, nor does anybody else.

[Captain Hilts]

19. No risk involved. 80% of Democrats approve. nt

[Lilith Velkor]

28. Sure there is.

The media will treat him like a Clinton for his entire term if he goes through with it.

He has to know this, because he's not a stupid man. So there must be something that makes it worth the risk.

Unless, of course, he's playing games again.

[Zombie2]

88. He's playin her......

...and will soon pull the Sword of Justice out of the fat tit of the DLC.

[Lilith Velkor]

90. If so, that's a bitch move

But not unprecedented.

[Rowdyboy]

25. What an odd question. He made a great choice that has drawn praise from most everyone. What risk?

Democrats, Independents, many Republicans and the media are impressed with his savvy and confidence. What downside are you imagining?

[Lilith Velkor]

29. Another goddamn 4-8 year media tantrum.

[Rowdyboy]

32. Uhhh, wtf are you talking about? Are you scared of Hillary being attacked by Republicans

and the rest of the "vast right-wing conspiracy" people? Of course they'll attack her-she's one of us. They hate all of us. Who gives a shit? We just won with 53% of the vote. Nobody gives a damn what shit storm the rightwingers try to start.

America chose Obama and Obama chose Clinton. Works for me.

[Lilith Velkor]

33. Fine by me, as well.

My worry is that the mainstream corporate media will attack Obama for standing up to them, and appointing people who know what the fuck they are doing in spite of their association with the Bill administration.

[Rowdyboy]

42. Well of course they will. Do you expect anything else? Obama has proved he can throw

their shit right back in their faces. I've watched politicians seriously for nearly 50 years and he's the best I've ever seen-Republicans who don't fear him are fools.

If he's willing to fight for Hillary Clinton that tells me an awful lot about him and his opinion of her.

[Lilith Velkor]

48. If he is, then he's gained a bit of my respect.

That Veepstakes game was total bullshit, and lowered my opinion of him greatly, which I didn't think was possible after FISA. And I won't even get started on the bailout... :hurts:

But that's all water under the bridge now. I may not like the guy, but I'm cool with him being President.

[Rowdyboy]

51. Look, I've been wrong before but this guy seems different to me......

I'm usually pretty deeply cynical but I'm starting to believe that this guy is actually what he seems to be. January 20th will be a new beginning for all of us and I hope he lives up to his promise and unites us as Americans.

We fly an American flag at our house again for the first time since the day Bush illegally invaded Iraq. I'm really proud of my country-at least for now.

[Lilith Velkor]

55. 8 years of justifiable paranoia is not so easy for me to shrug off.

I know I'm in the tiny minority on this, as I am on many things. It's alright, I'm used to it.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

46. I'm not so worried about this.

The Big Dawg had a lot of unresolved "issues" before he was elected. To everyone but Freepers, Obama appears to be a pretty squeaky clean guy. Rushbo and his ilk can squeal all they want, but there aren't many pegs on which to attack a non-Freeper attack on him.

[joshcryer]

76. Yeah, because her first 6 years in the senate were *filled* with media blitzes.

:sarcasm:

[Lilith Velkor]

79. You don't think the media will treat Barack like they treated Bill if he defies them and hires HRC?

He could fix the economy and she could repair our reputation overseas, but they'll howl and throw feces for the entirety of his term or two.

Why would he risk invoking that if there were nothing to be gained by it?

[AtomicKitten]

27. This nomination is still in progress. No formal offer means it's still up in the air.

[Lilith Velkor]

30. No shit.

It's still a political risk, though.

[AtomicKitten]

35. Sherlock.

Obama has demonstrated himself to be an excellent manager, so I have confidence in his ability to manage this.

[Liquorice]

34. What I find interesting is the leaks that are apparently

coming out of Obama's camp. Why are they floating these stories that Hillary Clinton is 'forcing' Obama to make her his SoS? That's clearly crazy. Nobody has the power to force Obama into anything at this point. So why doesn't Obama shut the leaker(s) down and stop these stories? It's almost as if he wants these stories to be floated to cast Hillary Clinton in a negative light. If he chooses her as SoS, the supporters of his who hate Hillary can feel okay about it because Obama simply had to do it... They can go on hating Hillary, and he can get the best and brightest for his SoS. And as an added bonus, when things get tense as they always do during any presidency, they can simply blame Hillary Clinton as usual. It's a win-win situation.

[AtomicKitten]

36. The Obama camp has been airtight for two years. n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

40. Sounds logical

As for the crazy leaks - I wonder if any of those bozos can explain how this drama benefits HRC. Sure, she's ruthless, but she ain't stupid.

[Liquorice]

44. Exactly. It's beyond stupidity to think she had anything to do with those damaging stories. nt

[CoffeeCat]

37. If you've read the latest articles on this subject...

You could answer that question.

There is no proof that Obama EVER offered Hillary the SOS position.

So maybe, he did know the political risk, and never did offer it to her.

They met. We know that.

After they met, there was an endless staccato of leaks, drama and media reports. Gee, who do you think
orchestrated all of the leaks? The Obama team ran a leak-free campaign for the past two years. He also
met with Bill Richardson the day before he met with Hillary. No leaks with Richardson.

The Hillary camp is responsible for the poli-drama that has played out since she met with Obama, and
that includes the Hillary camp's version of events--that Obama offered Hillary the job.

There's absolutely no proof that Obama offered her anything.

So there's the answer to your question. He understands the ramifications of such a decision, which
is why he probably never made that decision in the first place.

[Lilith Velkor]

38. He could stop the drama anytime he wants.

So why won't he? That's what I don't get.

[CoffeeCat]

41. Look what he's dealing with...

He met Hillary. After the meeting her camp goes into PR mode--and releases an endless
series of leaks about Obama offering her the SOS job. The leaks go on for days and
prominent politicians like Henry Kissinger suddenly appear on the Sunday talk shows
and endorse Hillary for SOS and talk up her foreign-policy expertise.

This is a PR campaign.

Everyone knows the Clinton camp has leaked all of this stuff.

If Obama comes out and says she was never offered the job--she looks like a
loony toon. Do you really want to enrage a person who is all ready crazy
enough to pull of all of this other stuff? Obama never offered her the job, but
look at the garbage her has manufactured to get it.

No...you tread lightly...you back away slowly...

You don't go public and make her look bad--and risk sparking more crazy from these people.

He's probably putting a good-faith effort into figuring out how he could work with her
and what opportunities she could have in his administration--but my guess is that she's
not liking what he's suggesting. Furthermore, he's probably getting sick of this nonsense.

...which is why we're seeing the articles we're seeing--from the HuffPo and the NYTimes.

[Lilith Velkor]

49. What the fuck can she do to him if he says no? Impeach him?

She can't do shit, and she knows it as well as he does.

The crazy is coming from the NYT, MSNBC, and HuffPo's resident McCainiacs.

[TahitiNut]

81. Well, I recall the "Gang of Fourteen" and other factional power struggles in the Senate.

The stage is set for some Senate shenanigans. *IF* some of the rumors are true (attempts to corner Obama into making SoS nomination, leaks orchestrated by Clintonistas, etc.) then we're seeing D.C. politics as usual. It's not at all unusual for whispering campaigns, manipulation of public opinion, creation of alternate realities, misinformation, and other propagandistic factional tactics to be employed in D.C. for internal political reasons. "Duplicity" is just a minor league attribute - multiplicity is more common. It would be a mental error to treat 'Clintonistas' (or even 'Obamaniacs') as some monolithic group. I think the primary abundantly proved the multiple personality disorder of the Clinton campaign. Nowhere else is it truer that "perception is reality" than in D.C and whomever can 'create' that reality gains power. It's NOT just a "left v. right" thing ... there're a LOT of folks willing to backstab for the sake of being a boss frog in a billion dollar mud puddle. Pecking order politics bloodies a lot of heads.

[Lilith Velkor]

85. It seems both of them are "Damned if they do, damned if they don't."

A unified Democratic party - with control of the House, Senate, and Presidency - sure does scare the shit out of some people, doesn't it?

[TahitiNut]

86. The ass of progress has never been without warts.

:shrug:

[Lilith Velkor]

91. Bwahahahahahahaha!

:yourock:

[AtomicKitten]

50. some people refuse to see it

it's surreal

[joshcryer]

73. Yes, it is surreal to see people thinking the President Elect is a weak puppet.

Put in a box (1) and who has lost all control (2).

1) Said by ProSense
2) Said by dkf.

Implied by many.

Disgusting.

[AtomicKitten]

83. Obama hasn't named SoS yet and Clinton's manipulative leaks don't change that.

[Zombie2]

89. True...

I'd be getting a lot of good laughs if it wasn't so scary people thinking Hillary is already SoS.

:hide: It's getting pretty wack.... like when it got real nasty from the Hillary camp during the primaries. Geesh, I never forget all that mess.

[CarbonDate]

94. Who says he's a weak puppet?

I hear people saying that the Clinton camp is trying to manipulate him. He hasn't nominated her. If it's true that they're doing a whisper campaign and he bends, then yes; he's a weak puppet. But if he nominates Richardson... then no, he's not. And both the Clinton camp and the media are going to look foolish, which may be reason enough.

[TahitiNut]

71. It's a good thing Malia and Sasha don't have pet bunnies.

:evilgrin:

[Lilith Velkor]

80. You're funny

If you have time, could you please put on your thoughtful hat and answer my question in post #49? Thanks in advance, and if not, enjoy your weekend.

[joshcryer]

74. People in her camp wanted her to be Vice President, you didn't see the media swaying him then.

Be honest here, this conspiracy is just something that makes you feel good. I saw this coming from the beginning. People denied from the get-go that people close to Obama were the source of the leak, but we know that's simply not the case, otherwise the initial media reports outright lied.

[Jennicut]

39. I love how people assume they know Obama's mind. He wanted her. he will get her

Hello, goodbye, its done, move on already. Once he names his team, then its time to tackle to crap left behind by our real enemies, Shrub and Cheney. Last time I looked, Obama won the independents, the left wing, women, men, young people, AA's, Hispanics, Catholics and a good # of white people like me. Its called a coalition baby, and he knows how to build one. More important question is what will Obama/Hillz/Biden etc. do about the lastest terror attack in India?

[CoffeeCat]

43. You accuse people of assuming...

...that "they know Obama's mind" and then you go on to say, "He wanted her. he will get her."

Pot meet Kettle.

Obama has never offered her the SOS job. He has never publicly said that. Hillary's camp
leaked that.

No one knows if he ever "wanted her."

There's no evidence that he wanted her for the SOS job.

All we have is an endless series of media leaks from the Clinton camp, and I sure as hell
wouldn't base my opinion of reality on Clinton leaks.

[Jennicut]

52. Well its kind of obvious he offered her the job and she accepted

But I don't know, I think its a waste of time to do the he said/she said stuff. Can't we just be friends or is that too idealistic? I was never a supporter of Hillary but we have to admit she is a smart capable woman. It took watching Phalin to make me realize that and my husband said something to me after watching yet another Sarah Palin interview. He said, "you know, Hillary may not be our favorite person but she lives and breathes policies and politics and its her whole life and for Palin its like a hobby." I think Hillary will work out fine. Why this constant speculation about how/why/if she has the job? If he did not want to give her the job, he would not have offered her the job and per multiple media resources it looks like she has the job. So I am ready to move on and see what she does in the post.

[joshcryer]

77. No, "Hillary's camp leaked that" is hopeless speculation.

We don't know *who* the source is. Yet we're to believe that there's some sort of SoS coup going on? That's proposterous! Obama isn't some weak-minded easily manipulated politician! He won the election for crying out loud! Nothing phased him! Nothing! And yet some "leak" is going to "force his hand"? "Put him in a box." "Make him lose all control."

Bull-fucking-shit!

[Lilith Velkor]

53. I don't know his mind

That's why I'm speculating, because the news organizations are too full of shit to be of any help, but the opinions of thoughtful fellow citizens can lend valuable insight.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

45. I honestly don't know what to make of this

and have avoided getting into the various "Thank Dog" and "Oh Noes!!" threads shrieking, I mean, debating this potential appointment. My gut tells me that if HRC goes freelancing, she will be out on her ass. If she follows BHO's policy determinations, she could be a valuable asset to him. Obama does not demand groupthink, like Chimpy/Darth, but clearly does expect everyone to be pulling in the same direction. It is clear he is not a man who is going to tolerate people who do not work to implement the policies he has decided upon, though he is more than willing to hear and consider all sides of an issue and be challenged before making up his mind. Why else would he have chosen a wise old head with his own strong opinions like Joe Biden as VP? Obama clearly expects to be The Boss (he will be POTUS, after all), but I don't see him as a micromanager, only as a strong and competent macromanager.

I suspect HRC will be on a moderately tight leash and will be yanked back if, but only if, she tries to go into business for herself.

[Lilith Velkor]

56. It wouldn't be in her self-interest to do that

It's funny what shriekers tend to overlook.

[dailykoff]

47. It's a lose-lose and he's already lost more than he could ever recoup.

He needs to get with the fucking program and stop screwing around. His appointments stink.

[Lilith Velkor]

57. Get with what program?

[dailykoff]

58. Anti-war, anti-Bush, anti-Clinton, anti-NAFTA, anti-welfare reform,

anti-globalism, anti-predatory capitalism, I could go on.

[Lilith Velkor]

61. The powers that be would never have let him be nominated, let alone win, if that were the program.

All those things you mentioned (and expanding on what specific actions those words entail would be most helpful) are more up to the people than they are to the President.

[dailykoff]

62. Up to the people is right. That's us sister.

Or brother, never can tell.

[Lilith Velkor]

63. It's sister.

I'm down with all you said (I think), except the "anti-Clinton" bit, and that's pretty much only because of my fervent desire to see Rush Limbaugh scream himself into a stroke and die. I would cherish that footage forEVER.

Solidarity, um, sibling! :toast:

[dailykoff]

64. Ha.

It's brother, and the reason I put the Clintons in there is because they pretty much closed the policy gap between themselves and their MIC opposition, and that's a little too much pragmatism to accomplish anything useful at this point besides get elected, and lately not even that. I'd really hate to see Obama go down the same path and he seems all too ready to.

Anyway solidarity! :fistbump:

[liberalmuse]

54. Fucking Clinton haters.

Go away.

[Lilith Velkor]

59. They won't.

They're not even much fun to fuck with, it's just too goddamn easy.

I hope she gets it just for the joy of watching them flame out, but other than that, I don't much care who it is.

[joshcryer]

78. They'll *still* claim she forced his hand and made him select her.

That's the really sad and pathetic part about it. It bothers them *so* much that they cannot recognize reality. They live in some alternate universe to make themselves *feel better* about it.

It also helps them cope with the fact that Obama is a centrist and has been all along.

[CarbonDate]

95. Again, nobody has said any such thing.

They've said she's *trying*. Not the same as saying she succeeded.

[silverlil]

65. I think you are wrong on both counts

To my mind, there is no way Senator Obama would have asked Senator Clinton to Chicago. He knew what he was doing. Having won the Presidency, he could have just ignored her, but he did not. and not only that he asked her to be on his team. We do not know that, but we shall see next week. I think our main concern is what our former President will do regarding where he is today and what he will do in the future. I think he will be fine.

[silverlil]

66. I left off

that I voted for Senator Obama here in February in California. Edwards was my first choice, but he dropped out before the California primary, and I am glad I made the right choice with voting for Senator Obama. I liked Hillary Clinton, but I liked Obama better. Now we apparently we will get both of them working towards getting America on track, and they both will do this. And Presiden Clinton will be onboard...... he will. I predict that President Clinton will get off of his oblications and money situations and get on the Obama track towards getting America on the right track. So be it.

[Lilith Velkor]

67. Welcome to DU

For the moment, I guess I'm still to cynical to believe this will all work out, but as my Magic 8-Ball tells me sometimes, "signs point to yes."

[silverlil]

72. Heck, I have been here

a few years. Several.
Cynical... I think Obama is past that now. America is in a very bad place right now, and I think Senator Obama is going to try and take America back. I was around when President Kennedy tried to do this, ( we were based in Gitmo back when we lost my beloved President Kennedy) and America was not in the position is it at present. I have been in America for almost 50 years and I have never seen it like it is today. My dad did not give me permission to marry an american, so I went against his wishes... I have been married for almost 50 years to the same man come September 11th 1959. My dad's thoughts back then was that America was going to get hit in a very bad way, and he did not know how america was going to get hit, but it would be swift but he thought financially, and devasting and america would not know how how it happened and he did not want me to be in this. My dad has been dead for 30 years now. His words might come to pass. He said to me it might be in my lifetime, but if I had chilren, it would be in their liftime, so therefore he would not give me permission to marry an american,

After 50 years in America, I am putting my hands in the Presidency of Obama. I think America is in peril, and my dad's words to me are coming to pass.

Obama has to stop this current President from spending money that we do not have. And I think President elect Obama has to be VOCAL about this N O W.

[mkultra]

69. he knows hes made a mistake in winning and NEEDS here to guide HIM

WE LOVE YOU HILLARY!!!!

[Lilith Velkor]

70. LOL

All your Barack are belong to us.

[CarbonDate]

93. Look at all the leaking from Clinton's people.

If they can't keep their traps shut through the vetting process, how much of a sieve is the Clinton State Department going to be? In my opinion, that alone disqualifies her.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/18/if-you-leak-youre-gone-ob_n_144580.html

Obama wants to run a tight ship in this White House, and it doesn't seem as though Clinton's people are anywhere near as disciplined. We saw that in the primaries. The more leaking I hear from Clinton's people, the less likely this appointment seems to me.