True or False? Hillary Clinton is de facto Secretary of State and Head of State.

[NYC_SKP]

Because even though Obama is only president elect and he hasn't even confirmed that Hillary is being considered, that I've read, it has been said that MSNBC said that she's talking to India and this means she's functioning as SOS, and somehow that makes her Head of State.

True or False?

I have no opinion, as I've never run for or worked in politics, save for phonebanking and such. ;-)

[Dis Pater]

1. I would think that if Obama wanted to end this speculation

he could have done it a week ago.

[mkultra]

6. negative, he ignored speculation in the primary as well

not addressing leak is the best way to handle them. It lets them shrink away.

[Dis Pater]

8. yes, this one has definitely diminished with time.

[mkultra]

10. he will address it when he announces

just like the others.

[stillcool]

36. Nah..he lets the press run wild..

What difference does it make? It's all very like the VP pick. We'll find out soon enough.

[DJ13]

2. False

She's long had strong ties with the Indian business community involved in outsourcing of US jobs.

Her concern at this time is probably more personal than the usual politics.

[NYC_SKP]

7. I remember reading a little about that...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090702780.html

"Among labor officials, a nagging question about Hillary Clinton's commitment to protecting U.S. jobs stems from a deal she helped broker for Tata Consulting, one of India's largest technology firms. In 2002, Clinton helped Tata land an agreement to open an office in New York state and to work with a Buffalo area university to create at least 100 jobs in the depressed community.

But today, Tata employs just 10 workers at the New York training center while sending much of its work to its predominantly Indian workforce, which includes many on temporary U.S. visas.

Tata is one of the largest users of the temporary-worker visas that have allowed U.S. technology companies to fill jobs with high-skilled, lower-paid Indian workers. It used nearly 8,000 such visas last year, according to a recent Senate report."

:shrug:

[elleng]

3. FALSE

She may be 'acting' as sos, as O is 'acting' as Pres, she won't be Head of State; O will be. She will be his representative.

[Maven]

4. What?

Please don't start this shit.

[NYC_SKP]

9. It's very tongue in cheek...

But not without precedent.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7931891

Alert if you want or reply in a kind and professional manner, or use the ignore function.

I do appreciate your using "please".

Thank you.

[Maven]

11. While the thread you're referring to is presumptuous,

please refrain from obnoxious, trite Hillary hate pile-on threads. Or, at least have the guts to announce what you're doing instead of throwing a fireball and then adding a :shrug: as if to say, "Who, me?"

If and when her appointment as SOS is announced, you're going to look awfully foolish.

Thank you.

[Zombie2]

13. Why do you consider this conversation "Hillary Hate"?

:shrug:

[verges]

27. Because of the "Head of State" bit.

SoS is NOT the Head of State. The Sos is the Head of the State Department. The POTUS is the Head of State. By saying She is Head of State, you infer that she is usurping Obama which is of course nonsense.

[NYC_SKP]

30. None of this is "Hillary Hate", "Hillary Fan Annoyance" would be more apt.

Hillary has not referred to herself as such, but it has been suggested that she is by others who lover her oh-so-much.

[davidpdx]

39. Because everything is Hillary hate or Hillary bashing

We are only suppose to question Obama, didn't you know that. And if we don't question Obama, we are "worshipers" according to one long time poster here.

[happychatter]

24. we need our own cable station... ACATT - All Clinton All The Time

no text

[John Q. Citizen]

5. False.

[Sebastian Doyle]

12. Absolutely False

And hopefully that will remain the case.

[leftstreet]

14. True. Here's the link to the news broadcast announcing it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

[Two Americas]

15. you are so bad!

You got me!

:spank:

Never gonna give you up...

[Two Americas]

16. some people say...

It HAS been said by some, that some people are claiming that there are those here who are citing MSM for allegedly saying that according to their sources some people are saying certain unnamed people are speculating that...

So is that true or false?

I mean, I don't have any opinion or anything, I am completely innocent, I am just asking a question here. I know nothing, have never done anything, and I am not trying to say anything.

[NYC_SKP]

17. It is Silly Season, the sequel....

Your post hit the nail on the head...... silliness abounds!

[DevonRex]

19. I, for one, agree with everything you almost said or almost didn't say.

Hey TA!!! Thank God you're here and brought that great sense of humor with you! :hi:

[Two Americas]

25. heh

Doing my best to follow "the issues."

Hope you are having a nice holiday JenniferZ!

[MaineDem]

18. Absolutely false

The President will always be head of state.

[JVS]

20. False, but some people like to pretend

[Honeycombe8]

21. A Secretary of State is NOT a "head of state." Why do some people think that?

What possible thing has ever happened in the past to make anyone think that a SOS is a "head" of state?

SOS is an important cabinet position, the highest one, appointed by the President. But it is a person who serves the President, does the President's bidding, and administers and tries to facilitate the President's foreign policy. The PRESIDENT is the head of state.

Think of it this way: The President can fire the SOS. The SOS cannot fire the President. The SOS is the employee. The President is the boss.

This is not to take away from the importance or the influence of the SOS. But it IS the accurate description of the SOS job.

(Note: All cabinet positions are below the President AND the Vice President.)

[Marrah_G]

22. Maybe its beacuse they head the State Department

Some might get confused with "head of state" and "head of state Dept". I know more then a few folks who would not know the difference.

I could see someone either being confused or just making a gaffe over that.

[karynnj]

23. There are likely many people speaking to people in India, and Biden may be the most significant

He is currently still chair of the SFRC and he is the future VP. I imagine that there are also many career State department people involved and Bush administration people.

This is not "negotiating" so Biden can do it in his current job (as can Kerry as chair of the relevant sub-committee), but Biden, as the future VP also has the continuity into the next administration. Both of these two have deeper connections and insight to these countries. I suspect that this is the media talking. Remember in the primaries even John Edwards spoke to a Pakistani leader.

[TayTay]

26. Wrong on all fronts, mostly

Senator Clinton is still a member of the Senate Armed Services committee. She has not yet resigned from the US Senate and is still, presumably, getting updates and briefings on the events in Mumbai, as are other Members of Congress. The US Senate and the US House of Representatives have several committees with oversight on the functions and budgets of the State, Intelligence and Defense agencies of the United States. They are all kept in-the-loop on important events that occur that affect US interest abroad. A terrorist attack of this magnitude is important to the US and I expect that a lot of people are being updated. Remember, the US Congress is a fully co-equal branch of the American government and it's individually elected Members are responsible to their constituencies. They may or may not act in concert with the President, as stipulated in the Constitution. They are directly elected by the people and are free to keep their own agendas, apart from the Executive branch.

The Head of State in the US is the President of the United States. The Secretary of State serves at the pleasure of the President and carries out the policies of that President. Sen. Clinton is the presumptive nominee of this Pres. Obama, but she has not yet been officially nominated, much less confirmed by the US Senate to this position, something required by the US Constitution. If Sen. Clinton is indeed nominated for this position, she will go before the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, to be chaired by Sen. John Kerry, in January for a confirmation hearing on her views and so forth. That committee would then vote to recommend or not recommend her for a vote on the floor of the Senate. The whole Senate will then vote on the nomination. When she is confirmed by this whole vote of the US Senate, she will then be the US Sec. of State.

There are others in the US government who are probably getting extensive briefings on what is happening in Mumbai. The following US House Committee Chairs and Ranking Members probably are also being briefed on developments:

Committee on Armed Services
Committee on Foreign Affairs
Committee on Homeland Security
House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence

The following Senate Committees would also be intensely interested in the situation in Mumbai:

Armed Services
Foreign Relations
Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
Select Committee on Intelligence

I can go into more detail, if you like on this. Let me know.

[ProSense]

28. Excellent post. n/t

[NYC_SKP]

29. Well said and much as I suspected.

Of course my OP was more snark than a sincere question, and I did what research I could to be sure I wasn't off-base on the definition of the term, "Head of State".

May others read your very cogent overview, no further detail require.

:donut:

[TayTay]

32. No counter-snark intended

There is a process to how the Cabinet is chosen and how those choices have to pass Congressional scrutiny, but it is not reported on in the media. This is unfortunate. The media sometimes make it sound like an appointment is thought up one day and in effect the next. Not so.

The events in Mumbai should make the unveiling of the National Security Team and the State Dept team next week very, very interesting. Ah, I wish that was good news, sigh!

[AtomicKitten]

31. No one has been nominated for SoS - yet.

They say possession is 9/10 of the law. Clinton's strategic leaks are designed to manipulate public perception vis a vis setting her up as the de facto SoS without an actual offer of same.

Others are being considered for the position as well (Richardson, Kerry, etc.), the difference is they aren't leaking. Bottom line is that Obama said he will be announcing that nomination (and others) next week. So, we shall see.

[Posteritatis]

33. "Head of state" and "Head of State" are ever so slightly different things

Really now, this is just silly.

[Az_lefty]

34. This is ridiculous...Obama needs to forget this Hillary as SOS

the last thing a new administration needs is all the Clintons baggage..

[Az_lefty]

35. This is ridiculous...Obama needs to forget this Hillary as SOS

the last thing a new administration needs is all the Clintons baggage..

[nsd]

37. The President is the "Head of State".

Others in this thread have already noted this, but I think it bears repeating. Even if Clinton is Obama's choice for Secretary of State, he will be the head of state; she will work for him.

[Occam Bandage]

38. MNNRAAAAGGANNNNANGNNGH.

That about sums it up.