"Dean Intends to cut Middle Class Taxes"-will not release plan 'til Feb 2!

[flpoljunkie]

Will release his plan after Bush releases his budget, February 2nd. How fucking convenient-- right after the Iowa caucauses and the New Hampshire primary. Who does Dr. Dean think he is kidding?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63189-2004Jan7.html

By NEDRA PICKLER
The Associated Press
Wednesday, January 7, 2004; 8:41 PM

BURLINGTON, Vt. - Howard Dean's advisers said Wednesday they are discussing a plan to reduce the tax burden on the middle class, a shift in the Democratic presidential candidate's economic vision that has focused on repealing all of President Bush's tax cuts.

Several of Dean's rivals made taxes the centerpiece of their challenge to the front-runner in two debates this week in Iowa, arguing that his proposed repeal of all of President Bush's tax cuts would hurt middle-class people.

Dean wants to repeal Bush's 2001 and 2003 tax cuts to help balance the budget, pay for spending programs such as health care and education, and make the tax system fairer. Dean spokesman Doug Thornell said the campaign is discussing a new proposal to do that.

Dean would not comment on his plans, other than to release a statement reiterating his support for a fairer tax code. "As I have consistently said since November 2002, I will propose additional tax reforms that will make the tax code fairer for working families and that will ensure that corporations and the wealthy pay their fair share," he said.

The campaign would not provide details, including when the plan will be made public. "Clearly it makes some sense to wait for the president's budget," said Gina Glantz, a senior adviser traveling with Dean. Bush is scheduled to send his fiscal 2005 budget to Congress on Feb. 2, after voters in Iowa and New Hampshire choose a Democratic candidate.

...more...

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sean Reynolds]

16. No. He said we couldn't have BUSH'S TAX CUT and the rest.

All but Gephardt want to keep Bush's tax cut. Dean wants to repeal it ALL. Don't put words in Dean's mouth.

[Bombtrack]

41. No they don't, have you even looked at their tax plans?

They want to raise taxes on the top 2 percent as well as reenstate all sorts of taxes on unearned income and passive wealth, at least the candidates I have supported, Edwards, Kerry, and Clark.

Edwards would actually raise the capital gains tax more than Clinton had it at

[Sean Reynolds]

61. But they want to keep Bush's middle class tax cut and only

EXPAND on it.

ALL but two candidates want to KEEP the tax cut. It's that simple.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

100. Back at you.

Don't put words in other candidates mouth yourself. Wesley Clarke plans to raise taxes on the well to do while simplifying the tax code for the middle class.

http://www.americansforclark.com/story/69/

[killbotfactory]

34. If you reform the tax code to make up for the money

Then you can.

Just keeping Bush's tax cuts won't reform the tax code or help with revenue.

[Sean Reynolds]

37. Yup. They forget the key word in this all!

BUSH'S tax cut.

[Upfront]

80. Don't Care

Who said what, when, or where. I just want to see what Dr. Deans tax plan is. I do know what he said and no one needs bother trying to tell me about it. Seems like a few of you cooler heads on both sides might want to compare the two plans side by side. It won't change one Clark vote or one Dean vote, but at least you might have something real to talk about. oh, just in case you forgot, if we don't elect a whole bunch of congress people in 2004, it won't matter jack shit what is in either plan, because they won't get passed. Dean seems to have a plan to do that and it is very inportant that it happens.

[papau]

2. additional tax reforms that will make the tax code fairer =middle tax cut

I read it that way back in 2002 - but I could not get anyone to commit to that interpretation

glad to see that that is the interpretation.

[slinkerwink]

3. actually, Bush is releasing his plan on Feb.2 and nowhere in the article

does it mention the date of Dean's release----please stop twisting the facts.

[flpoljunkie]

10. "Clearly it makes some sense to wait for the president's budget."

Bush releases his budget February 2nd.

"Clearly it makes some sense to wait for the president's budget," said Gina Glantz, a senior adviser traveling with Dean. Bush is scheduled to send his fiscal 2005 budget to Congress on Feb. 2, after voters in Iowa and New Hampshire choose a Democratic candidate.

[FrenchieCat]

112. That's how long

it will take for them to think of what the plan is going to be....They actually weren't going to do anything...but when Dean saw how well Clark's plan was being received...he decided he needed to do something...it's called Following and not leading.

[arewethereyet]

4. now if this doesn't cause mass defection, nothing will

obviously nothing is important to him and he'll say anything to get elected.

no principles at all.

sheesh

[Melodybe]

85. Dean supporters have been sending Dean letters begging him to change his

tax plan to help the middle class more. If he changes his plan I see it as reflecting the views of the people supporting him. I myself have e-mailed the campaign twice about it.

[Leilani]

92. It's Obvious

He knows his tax plan is a loser.

Now he will change his principles to pander, & his supporters will yell "Hooray!"

[worldgonekrazy]

113. BS man

Dean thinks he's got Iowa and NH locked up. He is withholding his tax plan until after those primaries so that he can get an extra momentum push heading into the bulk of the primaries.

It is just campaign strategy. The sky is not falling.

[Renew Deal]

5. Have Dean supporters had their new talking points emailed to them yet?

Which side to defend? Must be tough.

[Democrats unite]

9. LMAO!!!

Good point.

[BobbyJay]

6. Do Dean supporters realize how much they are being played by this man?

Unreal....



www.clark04.com

HELP, IS ON THE WAY

[Sean Reynolds]

8. How so?

Please tell me how I'm being played by Dean.

[deminflorida]

15. Like a banjo....

n/t

[Sean Reynolds]

19. Real mature.

Show me where he's playing his supporters.

[killbotfactory]

27. I don't get it either...

Tax Reform has always been part of his plan.

Of course, before now he was bashed wanting to raise middle class taxes, or not being specific enough about what he wants to change.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sean Reynolds]

28. Like Clark supporters are?

:eyes:

[killbotfactory]

7. Tax Reform

It's been in the cards all along.

[BobbyJay]

12. I thought it was about balancing the budget and healthcare?

LOL WHATEVER




www.clark04.com

HELP, IS ON THE WAY

[killbotfactory]

18. You convinced me...

Dean never really promoted tax reform.

It was the "LOL WHATEVER" that did it.

[Sean Reynolds]

23. Yes, but you're missing the BIG PICTURE HERE

Dean is repealing ALL of Bush's tax-cuts. Only HE and Gephardt are the only two candidates talking about this. The rest will KEEP Bush's tax cut and expand upon it.

[arewethereyet]

39. that is an obvious misrepresentation of the facts, bad Sean bad

the big picture is that Dean FINALLY realizes what a terrible idea it was to roll them all back in and is trying unsuccessfully to weasel his way out of a cornerstone of his deteriorating, ill-conceieved platform.

try again or realize that this Dr Dean is self destructing faster than a styrofoam bullet.

[Sean Reynolds]

54. Bad how? It's the damn truth!

Dean has never said he wasn't going to give a tax cut. HE ONLY SAID you couldn't use the current tax cut as a starting point. Only he and Gephardt want to repeal it and start from scratch. The rest want to build upon Bush's tax cut and it's the truth.

[arewethereyet]

74. if only any of that were the the case

say you're really Howard Dean aren't you ? Come on, admit it !

he said that the "tax cuts" were not really tax cuts at all, has a whole web page devoted to it.

and if you were to check you would see that Senator Edwards would roll back the tax cuts except to the rather wealthy leaving those that actually benefit the middle class and put those renewed revenues to work in ways that would provide the economy strenghthening sorts of things like getting first time honeowners in homes and kids who can't afford college or student loans into college.

we're really not so foolish as you seem to think we are Sean Reynolds or should I say HOWARD DEAN !

[deminflorida]

11. Clark's Tax plan translated in to the one thing that Dean

comprehends and that is Poll results. He obviously doesn't comprehend average working class Americans, that's for sure.

[BobbyJay]

14. lol has he met one?

a working class American?


Clark fought and bled with them.



www.clark04.com

HELP, IS ON THE WAY

[quinnox]

13. Another Dean flip-flop,

I predicted this a few months back. I knew Dean would take too much political damage over his tax plan, and would reverse course.

But the problem now is the cure might end up being worse than the ailment.

This might cause further erosion in support for him. Even the most ardent supporter must start to reconsider after seeing constant switches on important issues.

[Sean Reynolds]

26. He's not flip-flopping at all!

He stated you can't have it all and NOT repeal the Bush tax-cut. Only him and Gephardt are repealing the tax cut. The rest WANT to keep Bush's tax cut and expand on it, Dean doesn't want to do that.

[MuseRider]

46. Not only that

but we won't know what the "cure" is until after Iowa and NH. Never mind, whatever it is it is sure to change yet again.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MuseRider]

I am not a liar

and it is very uncivil of you to call me that. I started with Dean and found I could not count on him to hold a position. I do not give a crap what any of you say it is my opinion that he is being wishy washy and that is being as kind as I can be, but I draw the line at being called a liar for my opinion.

[Sean Reynolds]

62. I said that you were saying I lie.

You said he flip-flopped. He did not. Thus you either misspoke or it's a lie. If you misspoke, I'm sorry and I take back what I said.

[MuseRider]

71. No, I did not misspeak

but what I said is my opinion, as far as I can tell he flip flops more than a fish on the floor. IT is MY opinion. I have no beef with you or with anyone else but I will never settle for being called a liar and you called what I said a lie. To me at this point changing his opinion once again after the others finally called him on the carpet for his plan is flip flopping all over the place. This is not the first time and it will not be the last. Like someone said above, his finger is in the air, no real convictions and THIS is my opinion. I could go on but I really think it is not worth the aggravation I am feeling at this moment. He is the only candidate I will refuse to vote for, yup another democrat for Bush*. ( I thought I would beat you all to the gun)

[Bread and Circus]

70. Yeah, what's the deal? Why the wait? Can any Dean supporter answer that?

I mean seriously, why after over a year of campaigning is
Dean waiting even longer to tell us what he is going to do?

If this isn't an example of putting a wet finger in the air
to see which way the wind is blowing, I don't know what is.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MuseRider]

78. I am assuming

this was directed to me since it was a reply to my post. So, if I may answer from my part in this I will. I do not hate Dr. Dean. My particular part in this was not about his plan but about how he is impossible to count on. I supported him until I got tired of having to tell people that, no, he does not say that anymore he says this...on and on. These are the primaries, these are the times to separate out our candidates and make sure we end up with the best nominee. IMO Dean would be the absolute worst candidate and I believe that, not because I like another but because I think he is terribly weak in many areas. My opinion, most don't share it. As for providing strategy for the Repubs, well I think they can do quite well without us, especially in this case. Are you suggesting we all just shut up and not work this out? I think that would be a great disservice to our party. As ugly as it is this is the game and the only way to play it when in this position.

[DancingBear]

17. C'mon

It'll take him at least until Feb. 2 to go through all the other candidate's plans, cob together his, and proclaim "I'm the only major religious farmer candidate running with a tax plan."

Cut the man some slack - it's hard making it up on the fly.

[BobbyJay]

24. LOL!!!

I needed that one.




www.clark04.com

HELP, IS ON THE WAY

[Renew Deal]

30. "That's a democrat"

You forgot that part.

[DancingBear]

35. So many missteps, so little time

:)

[Sean Reynolds]

36. Like it took Clark 30 years to realize he was a Democrat?

:eyes:

[BobbyJay]

38. Yeah, cuz military generals are POLITICIANS

:eyes:

[Sean Reynolds]

42. Than why is he RUNNING for a politicians JOB?

:eyes:

[BobbyJay]

45. For the past 30 years he's been a politician??

Nope. He's been a military leader.


www.clark04.com

[killbotfactory]

50. Who happened to vote for Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1

And spoke at a GOP fundraiser in May of 2001.

[TorchTheWitch]

72. oh yeah

that same fundraiser that you claimed his speech was benign with superficial Bush admin praise. :eyes:

[killbotfactory]

103. Generally, democrats don't attend republican fundraisers...

and vote republican for most of their life.

[Sean Reynolds]

51. Exactly my point.

So why is he running for A POLITICIAN job? Last I checked the president was a politician. If he hasn't been a politician for 30 years, why change now?

[BobbyJay]

55. Maybe he thinks he can do a BETTER job?

Americans are tired of lifelong politicians.



www.clark04.com

It's time for a new America, a new direction.

[Sean Reynolds]

58. Right. Cause we know we hated Clinton, hated Carter, hated

Johnson, Kennedy, Truman, Roosevelt.

Could it be Americans are tired of REPUBLICANS? That'd hurt your guy, being he's a Republican.

[BobbyJay]

64. deleted

double post

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RetroLounge]

93. not to mention life long Republicans

eom

[Lefta Dissenter]

79. Actually, Sean

last I checked, the President was supposed to be a LEADER. The 'politician' role ends at the White House door...

[jmaier]

59. I'd like to think the Presidency

was more than a 'politicians' job. It's a good thing when someone from outside the normal fraternity shakes things up a bit. Win or lose.

[dkf]

21. Oh good grief...I always knew there was a 2nd part to his tax plan.

I thought it was coming out in October. There was a rough sketch of what he intended, but it never got fleshed out.

I guess they waited so that they could directly compare and contrast w/Bush's budget.

Makes sense to me.

[FubarFly]

101. Ding ding ding

We have a winner.

(Now back to your regularly scheduled programming)

[kerrygoddess]

109. Oh please

He can't stand the heat and the heat is turned up so high, Dean's waffles are now scorced.

I hope John Kerry turns it up even higher tomorrow!

[FubarFly]

110. ****Attention****

Statement from Governor Dean

BURLINGTON--Governor Howard Dean issued the following statement today:

"I have repeatedly called for the complete repeal of the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts to pay for health care and make significant progress toward balancing the budget. As I have consistently said since November 2002, I will propose additional tax reforms that will make the tax code fairer for working families--and that will ensure that corporations and the wealthy pay their fair share."

--

http://www.blogforamerica.com/

[Feanorcurufinwe]

22. One thing about this reassures me.

If Dean does get elected, we won't really have to worry about the angry Dr. Dean with his finger on the button -- because that finger will be moistened and in the wind.

[retyred]

40. Now you did it

milk came out my nose....you happy? ;)


" Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."

[heidler]

106. Dean will be a great improvement over the war monger.

Bush get high marks for decisivness, who likes his ideas?

[retyred]

25. Flip-Flops with a due date huh?

And we all thought dean wasn't original.


"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."

[Renew Deal]

29. Waffles for everyone

BTW, that syrup is from VT.

[BobbyJay]

31. My Valentine's present to Dean

[Sean Reynolds]

32. Tell me where he's flip-flopping?

He stated you can't have it all and keep BUSH'S tax-cut. The KEY word is BUSH'S. All but Dean and Gephardt WANT to keep Bush's tax cut and expand on them. Dean wants to repeal the tax cut, and start from scratch. HOW is that flip-flopping? :shrug:

[bain_sidhe]

48. That is not true

All but Dean and Gephardt WANT to keep Bush's tax cut

I can't speak for all the other candidate's plans, but Clark wants to repeal all of Bush's tax cut EXCEPT the part applying to those making under $200,000.

[Sean Reynolds]

53. But it's still a big part of the tax cut.

And Clark would like to expand on Bush's tax cut, correct? Well Dean wants to start from scratch, he's been saying this all along.

[bain_sidhe]

63. I'm trying to figure it out

I think it's about 30%, (Although it's about 95% of the *people*!) but need to crunch some numbers to be sure.

I'll be back, as Swartzie would say...

[bain_sidhe]

75. Looks like about 45%

of the income taxes, if I'm reading this document correctly:

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/gwbdata.pdf (note, a PDF file)

However, this is just the personal income tax part... Still looking ot see what percentage of the total package the corporate tax breaks are...

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sean Reynolds]

65. Instead of saying I'm wrong.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

[BobbyJay]

68. Have you read Clark's tax reform plan?

No? Didn't think so.


It can be found here:


www.clark04.com

[killbotfactory]

33. What's the matter?

Run out of sour grapes?

Pissed off you can't get away with saying Dean's tax plan will lose the election, anymore?

[deminflorida]

52. He's lost already.....

you just don't see it yet. America does however.

[Sean Reynolds]

56. Thats why he's leading in the polls?

Seems YOU don't see that he's winning. America does however.

[BobbyJay]

57. Leading TODAY maybe. nm

[Sean Reynolds]

67. Maybe?

Got any other polls that prove he MAY BE leading?

Last I checked every national poll had him up. Granted ONE poll had him losing support, but I wouldn't buy into one poll just yet.

[BobbyJay]

69. The emphasis was on TODAY, not maybe.

as in, TODAY, and not TOMORROW.

Get it?


www.clark04.com

[OhioStateProgressive]

43. it gives him a month to write it(nt)

[Clark Campaigner]

116. No, it gives him political cover during the critical early primaries

It's just a case of a career politician acting like a career politician...
Who knows what his plan will actually be?
It may be too late to change course by the time we know.

[Adjoran]

44. Something's gotta give

Sorry, but it didn't add up before.

There just isn't enough money in repealing tax cuts to pay down the deficit AND give everyone health care. Dean's already admitted as much when he said the average household will lose $700 in tax cuts but get $3000 in health care. The numbers just don't crunch, he will need MORE revenue from somewhere, or else be proposing annual deficits in the trillion-dollar range.

Now, there's going to be a middle class tax cut, too? And I thought Christmas was over . . .

If Dean plans to "reform" taxes with a revenue-neutral plan, he will have to propose soaking businesses with heavy new taxes - there aren't enough rich people to make up the difference. There isn't enough money in the defense budget to make it up, either, unless you plan to disband the armed forces. This is just giving the repubs more ammo, and that's not good.

Maybe the plan is to keep changing the plan so fast that nobody can calculate the costs fast enough to keep up?

[Sean Reynolds]

47. Dean has stated it'll take 6-7 years before you pay down the deficit.

But he's clearly stated that you can't offer a tax cut using BUSH'S tax cut, then offer health care and other things and hope to pay down the deficit. Dean wants to repeal the tax cut, 3 trillion worth, and start from scratch. He's said this ALL ALONG.

[Adjoran]

111. The money has to come from somewhere

Repeal Bush's tax cuts: $3 trillion over 10 years. According to Dean's own figures in the debate, the average household would get only $700 per year in tax relief from Bush, but $3000 in medical benefits from him. That is still about $9 trillion short over 10 years, and he's going give some other tax relief besides?

Where does the money come from, then?

The voters have a right to know, not only what he proposes, but how much it will cost and who pays.

[democratreformed]

76. So are all of his supporters mad now?

Maybe the e-mail from the Kucinich guy did some good (kudos to you). One of Dean's supporters was totally outraged about the notion of him considering a middle class tax cut. Said why should Dean abandon them - they are the ones that made his campaign and they all agree there should be NO tax cuts. So, are they mad now?

[incapsulated]

82. Not here

They are denying it's a tax cut at all. Or that he ever said he wouldn't cut taxes. Or it's really something else, uh, tax "reform".

Look around.

 

[mot78]

81. He's playing politics with this timing!

Why not release it earlier so the voters have time to analyze it.

[arewethereyet]

87. he's not playing it very well

but what else is new ?

[RetroLounge]

95. Oooh a Politician playing Politics

Evil man...

[killbotfactory]

99. I've never heard of such an atrocity before!

Dean is way too political.

[Hep]

83. Yeah, he should totally rush out some half assed plan

like Clark did. That would be much better.

Blame a guy for taking the time to make sure he develops a good policy. Go fig.

[adamrsilva]

84. I love it how Clark supporters say his new poll numbers

are because he understands the middle class vis a vis tax cuts. That makes him sound more like a Republican than he ever did a year ago.

[Lefta Dissenter]

86. Come on, Hep

The guy has been running for two years. You'd think he would have a plan in mind. There is always the caveat that you don't know what the hell bush is going to do in the meantime, but at least give the voters an idea as to what you want to DO, for goodness sake!

How is an educated voter supposed to decide which candidate he prefers if he can't compare their platforms? The others are taking the leap and putting their plans out there. Love them or hate them, at least it tells you what the guy (or gal) stands for. Where does Dean stand?

It makes me feel like he thinks he's above having to release his plans, as though we should all flock behind him, just based on some sort of faith that he'll do right by us. I'm not buying it. Where are his... well, where's his courage?

[Hep]

89. Interesting

Are you insinuating that the economy works in such a way that he could have drawn up a tax policy two years ago that would accurately predict what the economic situation in the country would be today? He knew two years ago that he was going to repeal the Bush tax cuts. But I certainly don't fault him for holding off on a developing a plan until later. What an odd thing to get worked up about.

Educated voters can make their decision based on Dean's proposal of two years ago to get rid of Bush's tax cuts and replace them with a sensible plan that benefits more people. Even asking for specifics would be inane.

Dean will do right by us. But I don't expect you to believe it. You will be among those who hopefully will thank him later.

[Lefta Dissenter]

94. I did not say that he should have

completed his tax plan two years ago, but I do think that he should have a pretty good idea BY NOW as to what he would do as president! After all, how are we to differentiate between the candidates if they don't tell us what they want to do for our country?

Many of the Dean supporters were ragging and ragging on Clark because they felt that he wasn't being specific enough about his plans. Meanwhile, he was putting his policy statements online for all to read. I don't know how many of the Dean supporters actually took the time to go read those papers, because the attacks about his failure to be specific have continued until very recently.

No, I don't just blindly 'trust' Dean to do right by us. I want to be a better-educated voter than that.

And yes, if he should happen to win the nomination and then the presidency, I hope I will have cause to thank him later, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Hep]

96. What makes you think he hasn't had an idea by now?

I mean, it just seems presumptuous to make such claims. Honestly, I doubt anyone who votes for him will wish they had changed their minds depending on the details of his tax plan. And if they're worried, they don't have to vote for him in their caucus or primary.

Dean has enough policy information, including tax policy, for voters to educate themselves. I recommend his speech from October "Restoring the American Dream".

[flpoljunkie]

114. He's already done that by recklessly claiming he would repeal ALL tax cuts

Now, comes the inevitable Dr. Dean flip-flop.

[bain_sidhe]

88. Good for Dean! And...

(*edited for clarity. I was a little hot under the collar*)

<tantrum>

:argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh:

I am a Clark supporter. See the little avatar? I really really want Clark to be the nominee. I really really hope Clark will be the nominee, and (especially lately) I think it's extremely possible that Clark will be the nominee. BUT... it's also possible that Dean will be the nominee... And I think it's STUPID to beat up Dean on this. We (Clark and other candidates' supporters) have been saying for MONTHS that Dean's stance on rolling back the middle-class tax cuts will hurt him, perhaps even defeat him, in the general election. Are we so desperate to be vindicated that we'd rather see Bush win than see Dean adjust a position that we've ALL AGREED will hurt him if he is the nominee? I don't CARE if it's a change or a refinement or a speed-up of something previously planned. The point is, IF he's the nominee, his proposal to (in effect) raise taxes on the middle class could cost the Democrats the election.

Is being able to say "I told you so" worth four more long years of Bush fascism????

I don't fucking THINK so! So the man changed his mind (or whatever). Great. That's one more issue Bush can't use against him IF he gets the nomination. The fact that I'm doing everything I can to see that Clark gets the nomination doesn't mean I'm an idiot. Or blind. It's still an open race, and Dean COULD win it. We'd better HOPE he's got the strongest positions possible if he does.

</tantrum>

[Melinda]

90. Hey bain_sidhe........

:yourock:

Thanks for that. :)

[bain_sidhe]

91. You're welcome

I'm feeling much better now. :D

[Lefta Dissenter]

97. It's not the changing of the mind that I'm upset about

(at least this time). It's the fact that he won't have any specifics for the voters until at least after the first two primaries. I don't think it's fair to expect voters to feel like they can make an educated decision based solely on "trust me, I'll do right by you." (my words, not his)

Of course, it's a political gamble coming out with specifics. Just look at all the crap that has been flung towards Clark in the last day by some Dean supporters who wanted to see more of a tax break go directly to THEM. But I think it shows a lack of conviction to wait until after the voting to be willing to at least lay forth a plan.

edited to add, HOW many states vote on Feb 3? If we wait until AFTER bush releases his plan on Feb 2, there's no way on earth the voters in the Feb 3 states will know what Dean has up his sleeve for us... I think this shows a sad lack of respect for the voters, but that's just my opionion, of course.

[bain_sidhe]

104. And that's a valid criticism, IMHO

And I think it's perfectly legitimate for a candidate to point out that he (or she) has a specific plan, and that his/her opponent only has a vague promise. But most of the posts on this thread aren't about that, they're from non-Dean supporters talking about the fact that Dean changed his mind/shifted his position or whatever he wants to call it. (I do think the fact that he hasn't got any details indicates it's a recent change, not something planned, although it could be something planned for much later, speeded up due to ::cough:: current events.) Whether or not Dean supporters like it or not is not my concern. That's for them to decide. Maybe some of them will leave Dean over it, maybe not. But it's *their* decision. Beating up on them because their candidate was astute enough to see the handwriting on the wall is not (IMHO) the way to win them over to the Clark side, however.

[slinkerwink]

98. thanks for saying that!

[FubarFly]

102. Thanks for the wise words!

I look forward working with you no matter who our candidate is.


:toast:

[revcarol]

105. Cute.

AFTER Iowa and NH

[mvd]

107. I don't see why we have to wait, as..

the budget deficits have been projected out for a while. But I'm glad Dean's doing this. I agree that all of Bush's tax cuts should be eliminated, and we should plan tax relief for the middle class after that. You don't keep part of a bad thing.

[revcarol]

108. Is this like Nixon's secret plan to end the Vietnam war?

"Vote me a second term and I'll tell you about it."

Dean: Trust me, just vote in Iowa, NH, NM, AZ, SC etc. and I'll tell you all about it.AFTER you voted.

[Forkboy]

115. Cool..another thread...

that convinces me niether Clark or Dean are worth a damn.