The US President is Head of State and Head of Government

[knowledgeispwr]

I've seen a lot of posts confusing the title with Secretary of State with 'head of state'. In pure presidential systems of government, like ours, the US's, the President is both 'head of state' and 'head of government'. In a contrasting example, in constitutional monarchies with parliamentary systems (the UK or Spain*), the Prime Minister is the 'head of government,' while the monarch is 'head of state.'

The Secretary of State is an important cabinet level position, but the SoS is not the 'head of state.' Head of the state department, yes, but just that.


*In Spain, the position we would call 'prime minister' has the title of President, but it's not a presidential system.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Thank you. I'm stunned how many ignorant people post here. Basic facts. nt

[knowledgeispwr]

6. You'd think before people post about what power a certain position has...

they'd at least learn at a basic level what it is. My knowledge isn't extensive, but I at least know what I posted in the OP. And I think anyone posting about "Secretary of State" and "head of state" should know that.

The level of ignorance is shameful.

[Blarch]

29. Don't be surprised.

Most here told me Obama would "outlaw" torture. As if it is legal now.

[AtomicKitten]

37. I'm more interested in the prosecution of those that tortured.

By just doing it and nobody stopping them, they apparently gave some people the impression is was somehow legal. Mind-boggling.

[Vattel]

42. Only some kinds of torture are criminal

So I hope the new Congress and Obama make the other sorts criminal as well.

[SwampG8r]

2. dont even try

they have entered a new level of insanity and will not be argued with
one is even now claiming that SoS has everything run by them first so they are equal to POTUS

[knowledgeispwr]

4. Lord, I missed that post

but yes, the insanity is reaching scary levels.

[SwampG8r]

12. heres one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7935193#7935245

[knowledgeispwr]

16. I think that poster may be being sarcastic...

reading his/her other posts following that one.

[SwampG8r]

17. read the one 2 above the one i sent

i didnt see it as sarcasm but so much crazy is being spread i may have missed it

i predct riots if she isnt named
jc pennys across america destroyed

[Starry Messenger]

21. He's totally joking.

I wish that thread hadn't gotten locked. I think he was just getting warmed up. :(

[SwampG8r]

22. i agree

sometimes the mods aretoo quick

[Blarch]

31. LOL.

This coming from a guy who thinks Obama will "outlaw" torture. In order to outlaw something, it has to be legal.

[Starry Messenger]

39. If you are psychic how come you couldn't tell I'm a woman? n/t

[POAS]

33. Not so sure but

it's getting damned hard to tell anymore!

[NYC_SKP]

19. No, no, wait, this one's even better...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7935193&mesg_id=7935264

sarcasm or serious, it's a classic...

[knowledgeispwr]

23. Yep, that's classic alright...

and perhaps a little naughty, lol.

[TahitiNut]

3. Who's Head of the Church of America?

:dunce:

[SwampG8r]

18. as i mentioned at last weeks sermon

which i noticed you MISSED AGAIN
i am pope of the church of america

now repent and be about your business!

[JVS]

32. How dare you try to usurp the authority of Metropolitan Jonah Paffhausen?

[Hippo_Tron]

28. The King of America, of course

[rockymountaindem]

5. I think those other posts were a joke n/t

[knowledgeispwr]

7. Nope, some were definitely serious.

I saw some that were jokes, but plenty that were serious.

[rockymountaindem]

10. Where were the serious ones? I only saw jokes

They were kinda funny.

[knowledgeispwr]

11. Here's one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7931639&mesg_id=7932223

[vanderBeth]

13. Darn. I have that author on ignore.

I wanted to know what they said about this. :P

[knowledgeispwr]

14. Heh, well here's another...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7931891&mesg_id=7931905

[WinkyDink]

8. Like I posted in another thread, it's Medieval: Govt is analogous to the human body. NOBODY is the

"head of state" but the "head of the body"; i.e., the LEADER.

OBAMA.

[sniffa]

9. YOUR'E HILLARY HATE CONSMES YUO

[TahitiNut]

25. ...

[JVS]

30. Rihcradsno slhuod be maned Scereatyr fo Astte!

[bridgit]

15. Well then he should be able to claim 'head of household' too...

:thumbsup:

[Life Long Dem]

27. Hee hee he!

Spreading of wealth in action.

[Phredicles]

20. Maybe the confusion between 'head of state' and 'head of the State Department'

is deliberate, at least on some people's parts. But I'd never heard that idea before, except maybe jokingly about Kissinger or James Baker.

[verges]

24. Let us not forget

Al "I'm in charge" Haig.

[davidpdx]

26. I believe there were a couple of posters that were trying to convince

people that Hillary Clinton was head of state. Of course, when people corrected them, it was "Hillary bashing".

[Bucky]

34. Got it: Dr Rice is the head of State, but not the head of state.

Now do the one about parking in a driveway, but driving on a parkway! That's just zany!!

[JTFrog]

35. The PUMA's have been shitting all over the boards lately.

Hopefully karma will kick in soon.

[Grateful for Hope]

36. I think this is wishful thinking on the part of some

who still seem to want Clinton to have more power than, or at least equal power to, Obama. I don't remember ever hearing anyone refer to the SoS position as "Head of State" until I read those posts here yesterday.

Truth is, no matter what position Clinton has, she will never have the power that Obama has. And, from what he has been saying, his cabinet will carry out HIS policies, period.

As an aside, Clinton is my senator, and, I would far prefer to see her remain on as Senator given the economic situation here in NYS.

[HughMoran]

38. pummel

their bonnets

[paulk]

40. I always thought that referring to the SOS as "head of state"

meant "head of the state department"... It kind of follows, you know, since the SOS is head of the state dept.

It seemed obvious, and I never understood the brouhaha over it, other than there being a lot of people on this site hoping for something to get their knickers in a twist over.

[LostinVA]

43. That is all it is -- some are just looking to mock and be pissy about things

The SOs IS the Head of State (Department), and the President is the Head of the State. It's a common term: "Head of State," and everyone knows what people are referring to -- unless they are trying to be jerks.

If HRC becomes SOS, then many pundits, journalists, and politicians will refer to her as Head of State, meaning Head of the State Department.

Trying to find some meaning that isn't there, the lot of them.

[nsd]

46. Nobody is going to refer to Clinton as "head of state".

Cite one reference where the secretary of state has ever been referred to as "head of state". I don't think any exist.

Here is the Webster's dictionary definition of the term (link):

head of state
 
–noun
the person who holds the highest position in a national government: a meeting of heads of state.

Clearly, in the United States, this means the president.

[LostinVA]

47. Yes, they will, and I didn't say "head of state"

[nsd]

48. You didn't say "head of state"?

What about this from your post: "If HRC becomes SOS, then many pundits, journalists, and politicians will refer to her as Head of State, meaning Head of the State Department."

Again, nobody is going to refer to the secretary of state as head of state. They may call her the head of the State Department, but they will remember to include the "department" part. The term "head of state" means something else.

[Vattel]

44. Please, no charitable interpretations allowed. n/t

[SteveG]

41. Exactly

The Constitution makes it quite clear that the President is head of State and head of Government.

[Vattel]

45. The Constitution doesn't make that clear at all.

In fact the President isn't the head of government. He's the head of the executive branch of the federal government.

[nsd]

49. Here's Wikipedia's definition of "head of government"

The head of government is the chief officer of the executive branch of a government, often presiding over a cabinet. In a parliamentary system, the head of government is often styled Prime Minister, President of the Government, Premier, etc. In presidential republics or monarchies, the head of government may be the same person as the head of state, who is often a president (of the republic) or a monarch.


(Seems clear to me)

[Vattel]

51. I stand corrected. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

50. Please point me to a post where that confusion is made?

I've never even HEARD of someone making that error.