Time to educate ourselves about Pakistan

[Teacher in SC]

Seeing the events in Mumbai should lead those of us with little knowledge of the history of Pakistan to remedy that problem quickly. I had recently watched a BookTV interview with Tariq Ali as he discussed his book "The Duel, Pakistan on the Flight Path of American Power". It was obvious to me that I was really about as literate on Pakistan as I had been on Afghanistan after 9/11. I began to read the book, though it's a little hard over the holidays to accomplish this. While I thought I'd heard and understood much in that interview with BookTV, I found a YouTube interview of similar emphasis with UC Berkeley. That one I downloaded to my RealPlayer so I could review it when needed.

I have no way of knowing the truth to whether Pakistan is responsible in a small or large way, if at all, for what happened in Mumbai, but I already know enough to realize the current president of the country is incompetent and corrupt -- nothing new for Pakistan, I realize. What Tariq Ali brings to this is our need to see Pakistan as a nation and respect national borders as we would with other countries if we played fairly. I know I understood more today listening to this interview from Berkeley than I did several weeks ago on BookTV. Pakistan has, according to Ali, been used for decades by the U. S. and we need to learn about what our country has been up to before we jump in agreeing to whatever the government does next. He would like to steer us toward reforms that bring in education, food, health, etc. that build the country instead of "use"it for our own geopolitical aims. He seems to be saying if we continue to do what we've always done there, we are going to reap an ugly harvest.

I have no way of knowing how reliable this man is, but it can't hurt to start somewhere. Also, finding ourselves in a quagmire in Afghanistan as we seek to have permanent bases there to access Russia, China, Iran, etc. makes me wonder further what the heck we are up to. I have a funny feeling there's a whole lot more to the story besides Osama bin Laden. If someone has a suggestion for further reading for a different point of view, please present it. This is all I have been aware of so far. When Ali made the statement that Zinni and Armitage were heavily against intervention in Pakistan, it just made me more curious about what "they" know and what he is saying. Since it's our guy, Obama, who has tentatively joined the hawks on the need for incursion into Pakistani territory, I think it wise to explore it as far as we can.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFDcGnupj8E>

[TeamJordan23]

1. Might as well read about the Kashmir dispute also. nm

[jberryhill]

8. Kashmir is the primary problem

But neither the Pakistanis nor the Indians seem to want to find a constructive solution.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

2. It's way past time to start destroying the worlds nuclear weapons,

the only sane thing to do. Peace be with us all.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Indiana_Dem]

4. A whole lot of it has to do with oil & natural gas pipelines for multi-national corporations

from what I've read. It's not all about OBL, although he and his groups are a part of the picture.

Thanks for the link. I like to learn what I can when I can.

[Ignorimus]

5. Has it been proven that Pakistan was responsible?

I thought a local Indian group was responsible.

[EFerrari]

6. No, it hasn't been proven. n/t

[Teacher in SC]

7. No proof, but Pakistan is the first place they generally look

The piece I read online from CNN earlier today indicated the cell phone records had shown calls to Jalalabad. That doesn't prove anything, and you can't really "know" that what was reported was true! That is why I want to be able to unravel as much of this sort of thing on my own as I can and not be force fed what my opinion should be. I want to know enough to question what is put out there. I really don't want to be waltzed into another Iraq scenario.

[happychatter]

9. I've been watching Indian news and they're claiming they have solid evidence of ISI support

I heard a quote from the Paki head of state (whatsisname) or a high ranking civilian diplomat, that it IS possible, that rogue elements of the ISI were involved, and that he would do everything in his power to bring them to justice

god only knows what the REAL truth is

remember the head of ISI sent a hundred grand to the 9-11 hijackers and was having breakfast with two senior US Senators on the morning of 9-11?

That a high ranking member of the Paki government confessed to shopping nuclear technology to rogue states and terrorists for money? Technology WE provided for them?

That the CIA was investigating these crimes, zeroing in on their Paki target, when well placed neoconservatives got wind of it and WARNED the ISI?

this shit is all, WAY too weird for fiction

[Teacher in SC]

10. Very interesting suggestions here; question is, what do they gain?

The Pakistani head of state is Benazir Bhutto's widower, Asif Ali Zardari. You aren't clear that he actually issued that statement, but it would be in line with the recent rush to denial of complicity by the Pakistani government and insistence that they will assist in pursuing all leads.

I agree, God only knows the truth here! When you read Tariq Ali's book you really begin to feel the deep, dark intrigue behind so much of what happens in Pakistan and many other countries, including no doubt our own, unfortunately. How do you unravel this mess? One suggestion is to elect decent, honest people to lead your government! That is my hope with Obama. What a job he has ahead of him.

Ali speaks of the breakfast meeting with Senator Bob Graham (D-Fl)and Representative Porter Goss (R-Fl) in his book on p. 145. He doesn't mention the money part anywhere that I've searched in the book, but in googling Mahmud Ahmad I came up with this link:
<http://911review.org/Sept11Wiki/Ahmad,GeneralMahmud.shtml>
Whether there is an ounce of truth in this piece I have no idea, but it was interesting to read.

I don't know anything about your other two assertions, but will probably stumble across the information as I continue to read and am sent off to google for more!

One thing we ought to remind everyone of is that this is the country where Daniel Pearl of the "Wall Street Journal" was murdered so viciously. Ali makes a case for the direct implication of the ISI.

If Pakistani elements are involved in the Mumbai disaster, I still have to wonder what they stand to gain by such a horrendous act. There is still much to be uncovered in this. All the more reason for learning all we can about Pakistan as we approach Obama's inauguration. The handwriting is on the wall that Pakistan is going to take a hit and we are being set up to accept it. I at least want to understand how we justify such action. After Armitage threatened Mahmud that we'd bomb them back into the Stone Age, who knows what we are planning. I think we want to get control of their nuclear weapons before these rogue elements do something with the nukes. Very complicated world we live in.

[happychatter]

12. oh, I'm no "truther," just for the record

the best way to hide the truth is inside of an obvious lie, and THAT is the usefulness of conspiracy theorists'

disinfo

anyone that claims to know these kinds of things with certainty, to include official stories... is probably lying to inhibit investigation

I was appalled when they released the number two alqeda guys' tape... with the racial slurs?

the pro-war fever up in this house was palpable

how easy we are

[Hanse]

11. Oh, puhlease.

Next you'll be saying that Iraq didn't do the 9-11.