Well, I knew it wouldn't take long. Barely a month since Obama won and DU is already

[xultar]

up in arms about Obama and feeling like he's screwing up and he can't manage to lead a government because he isn't strong enough to handle mean ole Hillary Clinton.
I mean after all, she will be calling all the shots when she's SoS and poor ole Obama and his weak brain and weak balls and weak governing skills can't possibly stand up to her, I mean for gawd sake he's only the fucking president.

So, Colin Powell was SoS he was doing his own thing and told GWB I fuckin got this georgie porgie, you sit there and look pretty and smart and I'm gonna march the fuck into the UN and tell them what I want to say and not what you wanted me to say. Even though I know you want peace georgie, I want war and I'm gonna have it. (Good thing Colin supported Obama then right?)

Condi, she told Lil boots I'm gonna go in there and destroy any chance @ peace with Israel and Palestine against your wishes. I know what is best. Yes lil boots I know you want peace but I'm gonna do my own thing. I'm SoS and I can do what ever I want. You can't stand up to me. I don't do your policy I do my own.

Seems to me then we don't blame bush for our foreign policy problems because it is obvious that his SoS picks were doing their own thing while ignoring Bush's push for peace.

Yeah. That's it. That is what DU would have you believe right now. SoS does their own thing regardless of the President and the President is helpless to stop the SoS from steamrolling through.

DUers think that Obama is so weak he can't handle his SoS. What an insult. I don't think Rush could have said it better DU.

[ruggerson]

1. but I have a friend who's writing a book

and he says that the Martians have flown down and taken over Obama's brain. And that the intergalactic order has commanded that he turn his entire foreign policy over to the evil and machiavellian Clintons.

This is fact. It is very well researched.

[xultar]

7. Sounds plausable, but then I only read DU.

[ruggerson]

11. Oh and the CIA caused Mumbai

with Hillary Clinton calling the shots.

Obama was at the gym.

[xultar]

14. I heard that too. What better way to blackmail P-E Obama into choosing her.

I mean geez. That mean ass woman has mad ass skills.

[Karenina]

83. Good to see ya, Xultarkins!

:hi::loveya::hi:

[polmaven]

69. It really is well researched!

I saw it in a thread right here on DU! Someone was visiting an outworld planet called FreeRepublic, and saw it there. Luckily, we have been warned!

[stevedeshazer]

2. I think I love you.

Thanks!

[xultar]

You are welcome...

:fistbump:

[JeffR]

3. Yep. All cabinet secretaries just do their thing once appointed.

Besides, it's been obvious for going on two years now that President Elect Obama has no idea what he's doing (or alternately that if he does, it's simply in furtherance of the neocon agenda).

Oh, and he's also a socialist.

[xultar]

5. I miss you!

I'm going to vacate DU after this thread has run its' course. This place is ignorant.

[JeffR]

10. Better to stick around

as President Obama racks up success after success, it'll be enjoyable hearing the air leaking out of the hysteria balloon.

[xultar]

12. I'm sure the hot air from the balloon will warm the world this winter.

[formercia]

27. That's why the price of oil went so high

to generate all of the hot air.

[Gman]

87. No... it will only get worse with success

because there is a sizable group here that cannot stand real success if it doesn't fit their purist version of success.

[ben_meyers]

41. Well, that will make the collective IQ go up a few points.

[xultar]

45. Only in the negative.

[BuelahWitch]

74. Please don't leave!

You are funny and a voice of reason all at the same time. I enjoy reading your posts very much. :hi:

[MadMaddie]

97. xultar...girl don't leave us

Your voice of sanity is always welcome!

Besides who are we going to gloat with when Obama does come into power on January 20th?


It is weird though, the hysteria and the sky is falling and Obama isn't even into office yet!

Anyhoo....hang around for the ride!:yourock:

[Forkboy]

101. Maybe you just need to vacate GD-P and GD.

DU is no more ignorant than anywhere in life you're going to go. Out of the frying pan into the fire.

Want to escape ignorance? Kill yourself, because that's the only way.

And no people, I don't want her to kill herself, just in case anyone misses the damn point out of ignorance. :P

[JeffR]

4. 4 minutes to get 5 recs.

Seems not all of DU is up in arms over Obama's actions.:)

[ProSense]

8. Imagine that. n/t

[JohnnyLib2]

6. But, but, this time it's HILLARY.

Poor dude never had a chance.


:evilgrin: :hi:

[WillyT]

9. Word

I'm trying my hardest to enjoy this win, but when I need a downpour of despair...

there's no place like DU.



:wtf:

Think I'll go to the bar and watch some football.

Tis the season!

:shrug:

[Zombie2]

13. I can't believe he picked her in the first place...

not that he has officially done so yet (unless you listen to every "leak" you hear).

Where's tha change? :shrug:

[LostinVA]

22. There's Anti-Hillary for SOS Macro #2!

[Zombie2]

24. Yep... I don't think she's the right fit for SoS. IMO

At least not in the kind of Obama admin I'd like to see. I want fewer corporations running our politics, no wars... silly things like that.

[xultar]

39. Well, you voted for the wrong guy then. Obama and Hillary were 93% the same on issues.

[Zombie2]

51. I think Obama has a higher percentage of class.....

Hillary got way ugly during the primaries... near the end, it was like 93% the same as McCain's campaign in uglyness... I'll never forget it. Hillary helped McLame split the Democratic party. You and others may say different, but that's the way I'll always remember it. To me, she seemed to change her message to mirror Obama's message, so I don't think they were really as similar as you would like others to think.

Plus, Hillary just changes too much with the political wind... she voted in support of bombing and occupying innocent Iraqis because it was the popular thing to do. :puke: Not even to mention anything about her supporting NAFTA, or the DLC ignoring the will of the people and surrendering to big business’s demands.

[xultar]

32. Like Groovelbot ain't it.

[quickesst]

71. Should have just voted for McShame.....

....or stayed home, seeing that there is no anticipation of anything "changing" from the last eight years. Most of us actually see kind of a big difference between Bush and Obama. Thanks.
quickesst

[Zombie2]

89. NO you shouldn't do that.....

McLame would be much worse.

Do you not think I see a big difference between the two?? Moran! You sound like most Republican I've ever talked to.... "if you're not with us, you must be against us." Lame.

[sufrommich]

15. Amazing,isn't it?

I have a feeling some weren't as pro Obama as they were anti Clinton.k&r

[xultar]

17. Ding Ding Ding! You are the winnah!

[BuyingThyme]

16. I think you're right on...

in comparing Hillary to Powell and Rice.

[JohnnyLib2]

18. How's that?

:shrug:

[xultar]

19. No shit. I was gonna post the same thing.

[MoonRiver]

Same ole, same ole.

We'll be seeing a lot of squirming and writhing in agony for the next few years. The fanatics are never satisfied. That's the trouble with being sainted.

[LostinVA]

20. I said montsh ago it would happen, I just didn't know how they would n"get away with it"

PE Obama picking HRC for SOS was their Trojan Horse -- except they have been sooo transparent about it. I've actually gotten PMs from people apologizing for the anti-Hillary stuff they participated in during the Primaries -- because these bozos have made them realize how divisive the cadre of "supporters" have been. Criticism is one thing, but trying to continue fraticide is another.

[rosesaylavee]

21. I know, I am concerned about Obama too.

I read here on the DU how slow he is to respond to situations too. This all makes me concerned about how slow and awkward he is. Why isn't his cabinet and staff in place already now before the first of December? Will he ever do anything right or exactly how I would do things if I were him? Why doesn't he take charge now? Why is he grabbing so much power before he is inaugurated? Will he ever do what all of us here in bloggerland think he should be doing? I am concerned. Seriesly. And now that he will be Hillary's puppet (which is ultimately Bill's and therefore the Illuminati's puppet), I wonder if America and the world will survive.

:sarcasm: thingy for those who need it.


:hi: Glad to see you back! Thought we lost you for sure during the primary insanity.

[xultar]

25. I'm leaving again after this post. This place is sick as hell. PM me with links

to some other interesting boards you hang out on.

[sniffa]

31. .

:hi:

[xultar]

Cya!

[sniffa]

48. Weird you keep posting

After twice saying this was your last post.

:shrug:

[rosesaylavee]

42. Did so...

Hope I can convince you to stay with us... purely selfish on my part as I enjoy your posts. If you need to, take a little more of a break but do come back.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

62. Damn! ... and I was so glad to see you back.

It's a shame that the same group of strident hysterics are allowed to blather on day-in and day-out with the same old bullshit and RW talking points.

Let me know if you get any good links.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

75. edited oops ... wrong place

[dkf]

23. I'm past Obama being able to control Clinton. I'm just wondering

if she has the background and personality for the job.

Brzezinski says her foreign policy knowledge isn't deep enough for her to run strategy therefore she will need to take direction from above. That tells me a lot about her qualifications.

We have all observed her over the last 2 years so I ask you if she has the personality of a diplomat? Do you think that is where her skill set lies? Bolton didn't have that personality...Powell did, but he had a bad set of marching orders. Condi has been pretty irrelevant since her boss is the most unpopular man around.

I know of no reputation of Hillary as peacemaker. It sounded like her campaign could have used skills such as those. She is more of a mover and shaker rather than a resolver.

I actually think that Obama is being very Machiavellian about this and is trying to keep control over both Clintons' because he sees more downside in what they will do otherwise. If that is the case I can see why he is doing it, but I don't like that reasoning at all.

[xultar]

30. Running a campaign and being a diplomat are two things. If you can't figure that out

then I don't know what to tell you.

You must think that Obama is stupid and not as smart as you. I mean he knows her and you don't. He's interviewed her and you have not. All you do is sit on DU all day and buy into the bullshit.

I've met Hillary, at my church...an all black church back when Bill ran for his 2nd term. She was great in the women's group. She's a great diplomat. I wouldn't take the word of anyone who hasn't met her...

and

Obmama

has.

[dkf]

65. Well all I see is her harsh side.

You know, I've met Howard Dean quite a few times and I'd say he was a great listener too, but the man is no diplomat. I don't say he's no diplomat because of the way he was in private, but because of the way he is in public.

[Bucky]

26. This is the internet. Did you really expect people not to bitch about stuff?

Anyway, I hardly think a few people here expressing concern by a lack of progressives getting in on the early high profile appointments is quite the same as all of DU being up in arms.

Or think about it this way: democracy itself is a form of government that depends on argument. We have an adversarial system. If you don't gripe, you don't matter and thus you don't win. As good a man as he is, Obama is still a politician and he'll only do right by us if we hold his feet to the fire.

Complaining is tiresome and ingratitude is annoying, I'll grant you. But in a participatory democracy, bitching about not getting your way is the coin of the realm. It's the most effective way to participate when you don't have a seat at the table.

[xultar]

35. Obama isn't a progressive. Never was. The idiots who believed that myth are...

idiots.

If they thought Obama was gonna put many progressives in the administration they were smoking crack of the greatest variety.

[KoKo]

52. But.....Progressives worked butts off to get him elected....

He owes us... We don't want him to forget that.

[Maru Kitteh]

93. Barack Obama doesn't OWE you jack shit.

My God. The arrogance.

[martymar64]

53. If all you want to do is insult others, then good riddance to you.

I'm sorry we don't all fall at the feet of hillary to worship the way you want us to. She's a politician, not god. To deify any politician is asking for disappointment.

The fact that you are so down on progressives is a sign that this is not the place for you. The majority of us here at DU are progressives and we will not stand idly by while you piss all over us, our interests or our beliefs.

Maybe you can start a site called "Center-Rightists Underground". Maybe you can go to Neutral Underground where the people are a little more right wing.
Maybe you can direct your efforts to an issue near and dear to your heart instead of getting all upset over the politics of personality. Personally, I'm directing my efforts towards trying to end the war on drugs.
But back to the point, if you want to be a asshole to those that hold different opinions, then you won't be missed by us here.

Ciao.

[polmaven]

73. Not just progressives!

Many here thought he would tap only progressives no one has ever heard of before, with absolutely no governmental experience whatsoever!

[HughMoran]

28. I thought it would get annoying here eventually, but 2 weeks in and it was "failed Presidency"

...for some.

I'm kind of disappointed in DU - I really didn't expect it to get this cynical, this fast!!

[xultar]

43. I came back to join in on the victory. For me it lasted for 2 weeks also...

then bullshit started to backup onto the board.

There needs to be a new type of DU. Freepers have really taken over this joint.

[jillan]

29. People don't get it.

Hillary is part of a team. She will be working with foreign leaders to promote Obama's message.


Reading all those negative posts you have to wonder why some of these people voted for Obama in the first place. They obviously didn't vote for his leadership skills.


We finally get a Dem in office and the honeymoon is over before he sits down at his desk in the Oval Office.
Not with me. I'm still euphoric.

[martymar64]

60. My vote bought me a right to criticize

Those that didn't vote have no right to criticize. I'm sure Obama would agree with me. Personally I am happy that he won, although I don't agree with all of his staffing choices. But my vote has earned me every right to say whatever I want about how his administration will be conducted. Whether he listens to my voice is another matter, but I have that voice and will use it.

Those of you who get upset because of a little criticism are the ones I worry about, they think that we crowned Obama king and that no criticism will be tolerated. This is not North Korea. We elected a president, not a dictator. He needs input from everybody, positive and negative. That is how he will know what choices are wise and which are not.

For those who think that progressives can only speak on Nov 4 every four years and shut up the rest of the time simply don't get what a democratic system is all about. And those that want us to shut up except when it is time to vote might not have our support or our vote when the next election comes around. My vote has to be earned by those who seek it, it is not a given.

[bvar22]

33. I'm surprised that Hillary would give up the power and independence of her Senate seat....

...to become a messenger for Obama. :shrug:

[xultar]

36. She likes the guy. DUH. He's the President and she wants to support that and...

GWB has fucked shit up soooo much it is all hands on deck people.

[AtomicKitten]

34. It is only natural that the hawkish Defense/Nat'l Security team so far would cause concern.

This is a message board, not a cheerleading squad. Trying to herd cats on politics is like throwing up between your fingers. You get some on everybody and it stinks. What this brouhaha is about has more to do with the future and how each of us hopes to see it.

[xchrom]

44. hope is in the eye of the beholder.

but this is obama's presidency and his eyes are the only ones that count for his admin team.

[AtomicKitten]

47. I agree with everything you said.

[martymar64]

61. So are you saying the ONLY voice we have is our vote?

That we should all just shut up until 2012 and be good little children for Papa Obama?

If you're saying that, then I could not disagree more. This is not North Korea. I personally trust him for the most part to make the right choice, but I will not be quiet just to satisfy some conformity trolls on some website.

[AtomicKitten]

63. I completely agree that dissent is mandatory.

I took the post to mean that we all see the future - hope - differently.

[martymar64]

68. I understand

All of these calls for conformity and orthodoxy are what are getting me angry. I have high hopes for the future under an Obama administration despite the troubles that we are headed for right now economically. If McCain had been elected, I wouldn't have any hope for our future as a nation, we'd be pretty much doomed.
Everybody is a little on edge because of the past eight years. For me, I've been on edge since Reagan took power, it's been almost thirty years of right wing policies with a brief interregnum during the clinton admin. and even he sorely disappointed me at times.
The OP's posting seems to reflect that they feel that Obama won only for them and not for the whole country, and thus that we have no right to criticize ANYTHING that Obama does. She seemed to imply that our only right is to vote and then to STFU for the next four years. I'm sorry but that just goes against everything this country was founded on.

It's fine to hope and to trust in somebody, but that trust is not unconditional and it is subject to revocation if he takes us down the wrong path. I will trust him to do the right thing, but if I feel he is selling us out, then I will speak up.

[AtomicKitten]

72. We are simpatico on this.

It is our duty as citizens to effectuate the "of the people, for the people, and by the people" promise that is America. This has been lost inch by inch over the past few decades, replaced by the culture of personality politics that offers spin and excuses instead of truth and solutions.

Obama's choices for his Nat'l Security/Defense cabinet so far make me nervous, rightfully so I think because of the hawks populating his cabinet. I voted for him based on his views on foreign policy, and am hopeful that his vision will prevail and not be watered down or manipulated into merely a shadow of what he spoke about throughout the election.

This is a message board where all points of view are expressed but not accepted graciously by some, unfortunately. My opinion is that trying to herd cats on politics is a pointless endeavor and often the catalyst for the knock down drag-outs here.

I've learned so much here and will continue to seek out the truth. And I will stand with you on dissent which I firmly believe is the lifeblood of democracy.

[xchrom]

67. no, i'm saying if you were prez --

you would have the right to put together your team regardless of my pissing about it.

[martymar64]

70. But you'd still have the right to piss about it

The OP can't seem to tolerate even that. That is what is getting me angry. We don't need commisars to tell us what we can or cannot say.
I see your point and agree with it for the most part, but the conformity trolls, they want orthodoxy and no less and I will not stand idly by while they piss all over democracy.

[Pirate Smile]

37. Sometimes the most vocal aren't the majority. It has been a busy time and it frequently isn't worth

the effort to fight with people who all of a sudden think Obama is a fool and a weakling.

Geez, how did he win the nomination and presidency anyway? I guess he just tripped and fell into it. :eyes:

You are not alone. :hi:


I remember all the people and pundits who kept thinking Obama was making big strategic mistakes - he has to go really negative on Hillary, he has to go after McCain on blah, blah, blah.

I think Obama has shown he is a very effective strategic thinker. I don't second guess his every move and I sure as hell don't think ANYONE in or outside of the Government is going to be pushing him around in any way. Anyone who does - well, I don't think they have been paying attention for the past year.

[kestrel91316]

38. I'm about ready to give up on DU. Half the posts (OPs) are counterproductive

and appear to be intentionally divisive and inflammatory. RW disruptors reign.

I'll reserve final judgement for once Obama is in office, but if it keeps up I really won't have any reason to stay here.

[xultar]

40. I feel ya. I think DU is mostly underground freepers fucking with us.

[martymar64]

64. Then leave already

All your whining about people speaking their minds is getting tiresome. We not some homogenous group, we are as diverse as this country. We don't need someone playing commisar to attempt to impose orthodoxy on what people can say. This is Democratic Underground, not Cult of Personality Underground.

[Maru Kitteh]

96. I thought it wasn't North Korea

I'm so confused now.

[ben_meyers]

59. Maybe it's just their clever way of putting DUers down

They are good at that you know.

[kestrel91316]

91. "They"? Oh, silly Ben. Not the correct choice of word in your case.

[ben_meyers]

92. Careful.

"They" could be watching!

[kestrel91316]

102. Yeah, GFY, troll. I caught on to you after about FIVE MINUTES.

I will remind you that this is DEMOCRATIC Underground. RWers are still not welcome.

[Turbineguy]

46. Please give it some time.

We've grown accustomed to having an idiot for a President.

This is something of a new experience for those who have political maturity in the last eight years.

[Tom Rinaldo]

54. Self delete - Strange tripple posting n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

55. Self delete - Strange tripple posting n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

56. That is a very constructive thought

I thank god that a new generation of peace and justice activists are stirring in America. I'm 59 and my own memmories of opposing Nixon are etched into my soul. Great talent, burning passion, a powerful clear vision, all of that is available to youth, in some ways more available than to elders. But the nuances of an accurate perspective are fertalized by experience.

[Turbineguy]

79. I'm almost 58

Last spring I was in New York City (Primaries) for a week and nearly overwhelmed with the young people taking part in the process that brought us here. I went up to everybody I saw holding up a Hilary and Obama sign and thanked them.

At the time it seemed inconceivable to me that the Republicans would not "win".

One night I ended up at a friendly Irish pub in the Grammercy Park area. I told a group of young people that it was up to them to save the Country. They seem to be doing just that.

[Skittles]

49. SOS gives the Hillary bashers ammunition

and they WILL use it

[ruggerson]

50. Their new evolving meme is

"well he can fire her at will."

That's what we will be hearing for the next few months.

It replaces "he will never pick her."

[BlooInBloo]

77. New? I've said that for a month or more...

And I have no particular reason to believe I was the first.

[wyldwolf]

57. did you expect anything different?

The loudest portion of DU strive on conflict and fake outrage. if there is nothing to complain about, they'll make something up.

[MrsBrady]

58. it is an insult to him

and also to Hillary.

Thank you for your post.

She is a hard working DEMOCRAT, and she has been working in women's, children's and health care issues for years.

To think that she will not follow the "boss" is complete crap. Also, having said that...I am tired of people complaining that Hillary might have a complete thought of her own!!! :sarcasm:
You mean she might actually have something to give?
This woman is smart, and it is a smart choice. She will do her job.
And she will do it well.
If anyone thinks that Hilary will not work her butt off for this president and the american people in the top diplomatic post, then they do not know her.

This will be a 180 in the right direction, considering the kind of crappy (understatement) job Rice has done.

[Uzybone]

66. Kick and Rec

I will kick and rec any OP who says that we should at least give Barack a chance before attacking him like fools. The man just ran the best campaign, showed the best judgment and the best intellect of any candidate in my lifetime (I was born in the mid 70s).

[BlooInBloo]

76. I'm completely fine with Clinton serving at Obama's pleasure.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

78. K&R n/t

[Jennicut]

80. xultar, you are so right. Since when is a SoS more powerful then the president?

Since never.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

81. I am certain that Obama can control Hillary (not that he would even need to).

Hillary knows she answers to Barack.

[rvablue]

82. This is THE BEST post yet re: the Hillary hand wringers n/t

[butterfly77]

84. Some are listening to the RepubliCONS again ...

telling them how to think. They are thinking that he will do the same things the same way because they believe the repugs and the media and whatever they tell them..The republiCONS are and will be throwing out everything they can to see what they can make stick before the next election. The are already trying to start a feud between the autoworkers and the unions. Pay attention people!

[Pushed To The Left]

85. K&R!

[Gman]

86. Xultar...

this shit started less than 48 hours after the election. I, for one, was not even fazed with surprise.

[NYC_SKP]

88. DU = 133,351 registered members, 50 states, countless countries, etc.

It could be that your expectations are simply unrealistic.

DU is a damned big tent, with room for lots of dissenting opinions and yes, there are pools of people on both sides of any given issue or personality.

If you're able to paint DU members with so broad a brush that you can seriously write something like this:

"DUers think that Obama is so weak he can't handle his SoS."

then it could be that you'd be happier with a more homogeneous discussion forum.

Or not. But it seems pretty silly to be a member of such a large board and then when you read posts, or series of posts, that don't match your expectations to act surprised.

I, for one, appreciate the diversity of opinion here and would be utterly bored if there was too much fucking unity and agreement.

:patriot:

[JNelson6563]

90. You can always take a break in the loun....er, GD

Plenty of silliness and personal dram there to distract from the crazy let's-eat-our-own-since-we-don't-know-how-to-act-like-winners stuff here in GDP.

Just a suggestion.

Julie--the helpful DUer

[davidpdx]

94. People on here get their panties in a twist if Obama farts

Some need to learn to relax and go back and read and listen to what he said during the election.

[mtnsnake]

95. Amen, xultar!

[Asgaya Dihi]

98. The value of dissent

As far back as the midterms we had people telling us we couldn't criticize what seemed at the time to be our leading candidate for President, it would hurt their chances. We weren't within a year of the primaries and dissent was already being stifled by some as if the choice had already been made. Through the primaries we heard the same. Not about the harsh attacks, those did go overboard, but some on both sides acted as if their chosen candidate was beyond reproach and couldn't even be questioned. After the primaries it was the same tune, fall in line or you might as well be a Republican. Some were actually accused of it.

One problem with that whole line of thought. If the so called "left" stays silent while the right and so called "mainstream" keeps pushing what direction do we EXPECT politicians to go? Others don't stop pushing in the direction they want to go and if there isn't a loud opposing argument then their argument seems to stand unchallenged, and often it in fact does stand unchallenged. Leaders with the courage of their convictions have ASKED for our dissent, it's what keeps them honest and what helps them to see which issues are important to us.

When Obama made that speech at AIPAC it did disturb me. When he supported the FISA bill that disturbed me more. In both cases some here tried to say how they felt about it and in both cases they were called concern trolls and worse. It never even occurred to the accusers that in the early days of the Iraq war WE were considered concern trolls by much of the nation. We became exactly what we used to despise and we did it to our own.

"Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion."
- Dwight David Eisenhower

Or even better perhaps, Jefferson in his first inaugural address addressing the question of silencing those who wanted to pull the nation down and rebuild it in another form...

"If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it."
- Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, Wednesday, March 4, 1801

Our nation can take dissent and it always could. Where we get into trouble is when we confuse dissent with subversion. If we have any faith at all that we're right about any issue then maybe we could take a page from Jefferson and allow arguments we don't agree with to "stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it." The real threat comes from those who can't tolerate dissent. In that direction lies what we spent the last few years fighting.

[Marrah_G]

99. God I love you!

[Life Long Dem]

100. hUh?

[smitty]

103. Everything we say is mere speculation until Obama takes the

oath of office. Let's try to be patient, there'll be plenty of time for whining the next four (or eight)years.