NYT: Dean watching his mouth

[Renew Deal]

<snip>

Dr. Dean, who has spent two years campaigning as the candidate willing to say what he thinks, initially told reporters that he would be "happy" to discuss his tax policy. Then, as aides glared at him, he immediately said that a senior adviser had "veto power" over what he would say.

"I'm not allowed to say I'm happy to do anything anymore," he added.

<snip>

For Dr. Dean, the attack on General Clark comes just 10 days after he called for the chairman of the Democratic National Committee to urge candidates to resist negative campaigning.

<snip>

Dr. Dean's style was also changing. On Saturday morning, Doug Thornell, his traveling press secretary, announced that the candidate would less frequently face groups of reporters, or chat freely in transit, but instead would field individual questions, one-on-one, by request.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/08/politics/campaigns/08DEAN.html

This is a disturbing article. Dean is now not allowed to speak to reporters because his staff can't control his mouth. Dean cannot talk about policy without his staff passing it? Does Dean have a thought of his own or is he a figure head? We already have a figure head for a president that has a loose mouth.

[billbuckhead]

1. Dean's not in control of his own campaign? I don't understand.

:wtf: This can't be true?

[deminflorida]

2. Bush II

n/t

[isbister]

6. Bush-lite

[killbotfactory]

3. I blame his rivals

for taking every goddamn sentance he utters out of context and dumbing down the political debate.

[Hep]

8. They were talking about it on NPR.

Any other candidate talking at the radio interview and everyone is shuffling in their seats, biting their nails, but while Dean was talking, all eyes were fixed on him.

[AP]

11. ABD. Blame ABD, that is. Any Buffy fans out there? Remember

the episode when Jonathan casts a spell on everyone to make them think he's the embodiment of perfection?

Many lines in that episode remind me of Howard Dean.

When Zander hears that Jonathan's popularity might be due to a spell which makes people think he's wonderful, Zander says, (I'm paraphrasing) "isn't Jonathan wonderful to cast a spell which makes us think he's wonderful."

[funky_bug]

14. Just elevated my Edwards opinion

Kidding... I've always loved Edwards, but the Buffy reference was a thrill to see.

Maybe Howard has The Jacket too? Do you remember that episode?

Long live the Slayer!

[AP]

24. The jacket. Heh heh. Yeah.

Dean has been saying 'you have the power.' Edwards says, "we need to work together -- I can't do this alone.' Edwards's message is the central theme of Buffy.

[mouse7]

15. So, your source for evidence is "Buffy The Vampire Slayer"?

Yeah, lots of good political news can be forund on "Buffy The Vampire Slayer."

[funky_bug]

20. No Mouse

I just miss that little blonde, and couldn't resist coining in on the reference.

Actually, if anyone were wearing The Jacket or casting spells, it was most likely Bush after 9/11. Damn if for a few moments, I wasn't proud of my president. Crap... now I need another shower.

[AP]

26. Actually, Buffy says interesting things about American culture.

Remember who girls had to look up to before '97? Blossom.

Buffy is such a product of Title IX America, it isn't funny.

Also, they alwasy find the solutions in the library, through research. It values learning and reading.

And where does Buffy go to school? A public high school and university.

[kaitykaity]

4. It works for Bushie Boy, right?

Why should Dean give anybody anything? Jesus fucking
Christ, any time he said any thing one of the nattering whores would
stab him for it, or one of the seven dwarves . . . .

[Hep]

5. You guys are falling for it already!

This is the kind of article that you would find torn apart at The Daily Howler. You think Dean was joking when he said he's not allowed to say he's happy to do anything anymore? You don't think the "glares" might have made for a better story?

They're clowning, and you're taking the bait.

[wndycty]

7. Its no time to clam up, speak Howard speak!!!

:kick:

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. Uh, Oh....

This sounds all too familiar. Next up, invited journalists only, questions will be handed out by his staff and he will have cue cards with the answers. He stuck his foot in his mouth too many time and now they have to control him....just like someone else we know.

[mouse7]

19. That's politics in 2004

If every word a person utters is subject to massive attacks by parties whom are looking to use any crumb they can find against you, you have say only what has been pre-screened. If they have the right to attack it, then you have the right to make certain the vocabulary choice and wording can't be spun into a hurricane of controversy.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

10. Gobbledy-gook.

He added, "I sometimes speak elliptically, so I leave out pieces that seem to me to be obvious but aren't obvious to the people who haven't heard me talk about whatever the subject before."

He said, "There's been more than one time when I've said something, and sort of the middle of what I've said is not said but thought, and therefore assumed to be understood, which is a ridiculous assumption on my part, but sometimes gets me in trouble."
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/08/politics/campaigns/08DEAN.html?pagewanted=2

:eyes:

[mourningdove92]

25. actually, he makes perfect sense to me.

Very open, candid and kinda funny.

[mouse7]

12. I knew this was coming last week

They had to cut back his access to the media because he "thinks out loud" too much. It's a personal habit that's fine when you are among friends, but not fine in front of the corporate media looking to give Karl Rove any possible advantage.

To compare Dean to Dumbya is complete silliness. Dumbya does the "out loud" part, but not the "think" part.

[jmaier]

17. LOL, mouse

Good comparison. I don't have any trouble with how Dean speaks but he is a bit 'elliptical' sometimes when its off the cuff. I guess that could lose a few folks but really, I've seen Clark do this, Kerry, et al

These guys are talking almost 24/7. They are going to naturally have their low points. :-)

Of course, they could take the top 10 misspeaks of the Dem candidates combined and they wouldn't crack the Bush top 100. It's nice to have a choice among a rather intelligent group of candidates.


Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.

[quinnox]

13. I bet his handlers after seeing the recent polls caused this

They have to stop the bleeding somehow, and Dean can't afford anymore verbal blunders.

[Semi_subversive]

16. Don't neuter this man!

His passion is what a lot of us like.

[David Dunham]

18. Dean is Almost Toast

Too many people are increasingly sensing that Dean's gaffes mean he can't beat GW. Watch for Clark, Edwards or Kerry to be the ultimate nominee.

[PatrickS]

21. Do you want cheeze wiz on that toast of yours?

[funky_bug]

23. Don't forget

Some people LIKE toast. Don't count anyone out yet. Look what Clark has done in an amazingly short time. Hell, if Willie Nelson's song hits the charts, the Kuchinator might actually gain some ground.

Call me superstitious, but let's not go all jinx-y wif it.

[MichDem10]

28. EDWARDS! EDWARDS! EDWARDS!

If we want to boot dubya back to Crawford, TX we need EDWARDS!! He will attract the moderate Repubs that are pissed at Bush!! :toast:

[newyawker99]

31. Hi MichDem10!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[MIMStigator]

22. Straight talker's been ball gagged? Thatll go over real good with

people who already think he's a loose cannon

[PretzelWarrior]

27. your inferring a lot of bad stuff

that isn't there. You think if a guy wants to win he's going to do it by saying things unchecked and then defending it for a week later?

No, in fact. What he said at that session "that he has to pass his remarks through a filter of his campaign" almost lets him off the hook when he tries to curb his language to be more productive and less confrontational.

I like how they are positioning him with that tactic. Like...he's still shoot from the hip honest but he has to reign it in for practicality.

The American electorate is smart enough to "get it".

[eileen from OH]

29. Yes, it is disturbing, but I find it disturbing for quite a different

reason than you probably do.

"Dean is now not allowed to speak to reporters because his staff can't control his mouth."

No, because every goddam word out of his mouth is parsed and google searches are launched to find out if oh, maybe back in the 90's he said something that was counter to it, and it will appear here or on Drudge or on another candidate's website, even though at that time he was in a different job and had different priorities.

"Dean cannot talk about policy without his staff passing it?"

Well, consider that every utterance is labeled a "gaffe" by so-called fellow-Dems. Even ones that make perfect sense (i.e., America isn't safer with Saddam caught) are used by fellow "Dems" who are all too eager to pile on. And they perpetuate the "flip flop" and "lies" and all the bullshit, ever ignoring that growing and changing and learning are the signs of a mature person and that consistency for consistency's sake is bloody, blindingly stupid. And they do this without ever giving a second thought that this is exactly the bullshit that we used to call being "Gored." We hated it when the Repubs did it to Gore, but some, with the idea that it somehow perversely makes their candidate look better, have no problem doing the same fucking thing to Dean.

"Does Dean have a thought of his own or is he a figure head? We already have a figure head for a president that has a loose mouth"

So now he's Bush, eh? Hmm, if he HAS a thought of his own, and it can be spun/twisted negatively, well, you can fucking well believe that that's what will happen, because it HAS. And if he tries to explain or elaborate, well THAT'S a crime too, all by its ownsome. Or IF, on the other hand, he tempers his rhetoric (which he has been continually, constantly, unremittingly, ad nauseum, been URGED to do) he's not congratulated, but labeled a "figurehead".

Dean's big failure is that, while he knew he'd have to face the "gotcha" game from Republicans, he didn't think he'd have to face it from the very party he's trying to build. Yeah, he's had sharp elbows and yeah, he's been tough on his own party and other candidates. It was well past fucking time that SOMEONE was. Because, like him or hate him, he was the first goddam Dem who said shit that we all wanted said, in a way that resonated. How quickly we forget 2002 and the way the Dems rolled over and waited for Bush to scratch their bellies only to go down in flames. Outside of DK, where were those other voices then?

I'm not saying give him a pass on stoopid shit, because he has said stoopid shit. And I'm not saying that he can't be criticized, because he can and should be - it will only make him stronger. I'm not saying that he should be your candidate because we all make up our own minds about that.

I'm saying that in the past few weeks he has come under scrutiny, and made to explain, and been parsed and micro-parsed, in ways that no human could possibly explain in a sound byte on CNN or MSNBC. Holy shit, we should be the last ones to expect or, worse, ADD to that.

And, just in case anyone mistakes my meaning, I would say this about ANY Dem candidate. For the record, I am a Dean supporter, but just so you know where I'm coming from:

I don't think of Clark as a Republican, or, more importantly, I don't CARE if he was ever one - he's good for our party NOW.

I think John Kerry has been a great champion of liberal causes and a brave voice in the Senate.

I think Dick Gephardt has been a stalwart, unstinting friend of labor.

I think Carol M. Braun is probably the most eloquent liberal feminist voice I've ever heard.

I think Dennis Kucinich has provided a wonderful voice for those who have felt they had no voice and soldiers on when many would want him to be silent.

I think Al Sharpton provides a wit and clarity that the Dems need.

I think Joe Lieberman has a history of bravery on civil rights issues that is often ignored and needs to be applauded.

And I think John Edwards represents a purity of message that goes past politics and that he reaches voters in a way that resonates better than most of the others.

Got it? So when I express my frustration with the way that Dean has been treated, and is labeled, and is subjected to scrutiny that none of the others have even come close to experiencing, it AIN'T because I want to bash the others. If Dean isn't the candidate, I can live with that. But, when Rove starts doing the same fucking thing to the eventual Dem nominee (whoever that may be)as the Dems have done Dean, don't be surprised, or appalled.

The Republicans invented this game.
Too bad that the Dems, for once, were such quick learners.

eileen from OH

[bain_sidhe]

30. Brava!

:toast:

(I'd say more, but I don't want to take any of the spotlight off your beautiful post.)